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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Health / NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? (26184 Views)
NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG: An Unnecessary Battle / Nma Vs Johesu Faceoff: Matters Arising By Deji Gbogi / NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why The Hatred For Doctors??? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 9:38pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:I will look it up. But I am also interested in the hierarchy. For your information, in the Nigerian hospital setting, this is what it looks like, 1. Board chairman (not a medical doctor, probably a politician) 2. CMD (medical doctor) 3. CMAC (medical doctor) 4. dIrector of administration (a public administrator) 5. Head of Pharmacy 6. Head of nursing Etc |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 9:47pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
DebateNigeria: So what is the equivalent of a CEO and or president in Nigerian setting |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by Shakes85: 9:55pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko: CEO of Herman memorial Hospital ( one of the largest in Houston) is not an MDHow many times will you be corrected? |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 9:56pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
Shakes85: What correction |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by Shakes85: 10:08pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:Sorry posted wrongly |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 10:10pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:Anytime you look at the leadership always try to look at the hierarchy .... It will help you make a logical conclusion. Also look at my last post and try to work on it. I will be amazed to see a nurse or pharmacist or laboratory scientist who is not a health manager as CEO or CMD or President as you have been posting. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 10:22pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
DebateNigeria: Sir, OK to make it little simpler to understand each other.. Who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by dakotchic(f): 10:31pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
Ok a pharmacist is the chairman of board of national hospital Abuja. Doesn't that make sense now? The chairman of board is equivalent to the CEO, he and his board members including all the directors make policies concerning the hospitals day to day activities. As expected the CMD- Medical director is a doctor as obtains all over the world. Talk about benchmarking with world's best practices! |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 10:35pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
dakotchic: Ok a pharmacist is the chairman of board of national hospital Abuja. Doesn't that make sense now? The chairman of board is equivalent to the CEO, he and his board members including all the directors make policies concerning the hospitals day to day activities. As expected the CMD- Medical director is a doctor as obtains all over the world. Talk about benchmarking with world's best practices! Again my question is ...who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 10:43pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:A medical director who reports to a board chairman and must seek approval of such a board before making important decisions |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by Oduduwaboy(m): 10:45pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko: President of the famed Texas Children hospital is not an MD this guy , would you please stop confusing people here? The President of Johns Hopkins hospital is a non-doctor .This is comparable to the Hospital board Chairman in Nigeria. However , MD/CEO is a doctor ! |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 10:46pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
Oduduwaboy: Texas children CEO is not an MD please |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 10:48pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
DebateNigeria: So in Nigeria the Hospital day to day running AKA a CEO must be an MD |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by Oduduwaboy(m): 10:49pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
dakotchic: Ok a pharmacist is the chairman of board of national hospital Abuja. Doesn't that make sense now? The chairman of board is equivalent to the CEO, he and his board members including all the directors make policies concerning the hospitals day to day activities. As expected the CMD- Medical director is a doctor as obtains all over the world. Talk about benchmarking with world's best practices!In Nigeria , the CEO of hospitals are the CMD / MDs who are responsible for the day to day running of the hospitals. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 10:49pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:To answer your question, this is how it looks like in UBTH, one of the tertiary hospitals in Nigeria. http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board1&id=34 The head is even a political scientist, without him, nothing can be done in that hospital.
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Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 10:50pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:gain my question is ...who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital[/quote] To answer your question, this is how it looks like in UBTH, one of the tertiary hospitals in Nigeria. http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board1&id=34 |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by echarlz(m): 10:55pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
PerfectFortune: The OP may claim not to be bias in his judgment but in my opinion, he is very bias. FG, JOHESU and indeed all hate-filled Nigerians who feel doctors' demands are greedy, arrogant and misplaced have a very easy way out of this problem... PRIVATISATION. Simple. Let government privatise all the services in federal hospitals to start with. Medical doctors, nurses, pharmacists, optometrists, lab scientists/tech, engineers, accountants everybody should work and justify their earnings. It will be clearer who are greedy. I am a medical doctor and I have had the privilege of working at all levels of care- primary, secondary and tertiary and in both private and public hospitals. I haven't seen it all but I appreciate the difference and know what good service delivery and client satisfaction mean. And I can say that the easy generalisation is one way of misinforming the public and gaining undeserved sympathy. But I hate to be involved in needless online debates. Let us take the hard step of leaving govt out of running health care. Infact there will be moire jobs at the end of the day. The economy will also grow because medical tourism will reduce and phone consultations, unauthorised prescriptions and illegal health facilities will be abolished. Lets copy the US health systems wholly. The money FG will save from the privatisation should go into providing insurance coverage for Nigerians depending on their employment status and vulnerability. Who is afraid of 100% health insurance coverage for Nigerians as stated in the doctors' demands? Govt should please take this measure. it may be difficult at the initial stage but the whole country and her citizens will be better for it. Let anyone also be able to open and run hospitals and place whichever category of health professional to head them. 1 Like |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 11:00pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:Yes, that's how it is in the USA as you have shown. I as a person do not support for doctors to head the health sector, I prefer health managers. But if the head must come from the health sector, then it must be the doctors. You can prove me wrong by showing me any hospital in the USA where a career nurse is the head of that hospital or a medical laboratory scientist or pharmacist. I am not talking about board chairman, I am talking about CEO or COO or whatever. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 11:03pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:Yes, neither is he a nurse, a laboratory scientist nor a pharmacist. Now who is the next person after him in terms of hierarchy? A doctor. Please go back to my post to look at the hierarchy. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 11:08pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
Oduduwaboy: So a CEO is merely an administrator of an establishment. And to run an establishment depends purely on managerial endowment ... As in degrees in administration. Management . or a natural talent for leadership acquired from experience through the rigorous climb of the coprotate rather. So are Nigerian Hospitals redefing these qualities or taking them to be irrelevant in the management of hospitals. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 11:13pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
DebateNigeria: The point is that a hospital CEO can be anyone with the right managerial skills and have absolutely nothing to do with whether the person is an MD. RN.Pharm.D. etc. An RN (as an example) with a good managerial skill can still make a good hospital CEO. Again. Do you mean a Pharm.D (example) with an MBA or PHd in hospital management and a good managerial skill cannot run a Hospital? |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 11:16pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:Bro I share in your pain and quite understand what you are trying to say. What we should be fighting for should be for health managers to take over the administration of our hospital, people who have managerial skills, not doctors who treat patients and after some years they will climb up to management position. In my opinion, health managers should run the hospitals while a doctor should be appointed as head of clinical service (second in the hierarchy) then others should be HODs. With this, favoritism and all will stop, our hospitals will be better managed. If anybody wants to head the hospital, whether you are a doctor or a nurse or a pharmacist, all you have to do is to climb the ladder, go back to school and take some courses in management. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 11:23pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:Exactly my point. Now we are getting somewhere. Most nurses in the USA have MBA yet they will never be head over a doctor. If there is any, let me know. Point is that if they want to become health managers, no need to practice at all, take management courses, start climbing the ladder ( and off course medical knowledge will be an added advantage). I know some hospitals own by nurses ( that makes them CEO) but after them as CEO, the next person is the doctor, he earns more, makes decision that others must respect and even the CEO dare not interfere in his management of patients. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by dumodust(m): 11:28pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
Janiobi: When you guys starts saving lifes first than bodring about the registration and hospital fees b4 operating on patients then we would care for you guys...Imagine an injured person runing to a nearby hospital to receive care and Died right there cause he had not the money to pay for his treatment,So he was not responded too. W.T.F is going on with doc?universal insurance that will take care of such a scenario is part of the reasons doctors are on strike. ask yourself if you're insured, quit ranting and stop being emotional, be rational, think, save money and plan for that time that you will need help instead of investing in big cars and other frivolities or rather call your fg to help you. do you know how many patients abscond from hospitals, nigerians dont pay after treatment, it is in our nature, we rather use the money for thanksgiving in church because the doctor was made to be humanitarian and treat you for free.by time a good number of the type of emergency you described runs down the hospital, you and the public wont bail them out... the hospital is also a business that has debts too... rent, nepa, equipment, drugs do not drop from heaven, they are bought with money. maybe banks should start giving free lifesaving loans too 1 Like |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by dumodust(m): 11:29pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
sexyexcalibur: the hatred is not only in Nigeria... even in the US doctors are hated because the public thinks they are paid excessively despite the global recession..... doctors give their life for you in training, the pressure in medical school can be so much that even the best student this year might be withdrawn the next year.... most of those who hate doctor's have their reasons, I understand that,but the generalized hate is not fair at all..... despite all this hatred , a doctor takes solace anytime he saves a life. the patients gratitude gives him the feeling I can't explain.... the fact that the Number of students applying for medicine increase yearly gives him assurance..... and yea, the fact that some of this health professionals were withdrawn from medicine or refused the course when they applied shows him he z privileged... we don't care about those who hate online..we care about those who come to us... they love us, and that is enoughgbam! 1 Like |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by dumodust(m): 11:41pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
PerfectFortune: The OP may claim not to be bias in his judgment but in my opinion, he is very bias.i'm being nice if i call you a ranting fool... you are one of the worst cases of clear ignorance forming knowledge, cant even write clear english and correct tenses see... public hospitals are overwhelmed by too many people in nigeria and too little doctors. go and check the WHO doctor patient ratios and ask you father whether he kept your personal slave in the hospital . doctors like me 'stroll' into your little myopic frustrated world/viewpoint at the clinic by 9am because we have been working till then on the wards , accident and emergency and in the theatres even before you entered the hospital. thats why i always say that patients that have problems that get them admitted in the hospital wards understand what happens in the morning before clinics. people of little intelligence perceive others as arrogant... that's normal, inferiority complex can be conquered with a little counselling which you certainly need... i can feel the weight of your cerebral cortex in your dribble... it feels like blended mush in the carton you call skull if you feel doctors are incompetent... stop crying on this page and take action,its a free world and nobody forced you to wait long hours in public hospitals to see them... go and pay more in private hospitals like lagoon or go and see your herbalist...simple 1 Like |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 11:43pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
DebateNigeria: what do you mean head over a doctor So some of the RNs who are vice presidents are not making decisions for doctors. Or that some nurse anesthetist who make operating decisions that the doctors have to abide are non existent Lastly some nurses earn more than doctors not counting overtime. So what exactly do you mean by head over. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 11:45pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
DebateNigeria:. there is no law anywhere that says that because you are promoted to manage an establish you relinquish your practice of your beloved profession.... if there is point it out for me. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 11:45pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
dumodust: Wow.. You can really drive home your point without being too emotional. I have been able to witness the schedule of a medical doctor and I was marveled. The next question that came to my mind was what is the life expectancy of an average Nigerian doctor. Sincerely speaking, those in the teaching hospitals and general hospitals are working like machines. 1 Like |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by dumodust(m): 11:49pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
Opusy: It Iڪ so disheartening that τ̲̅ђe highest paid workers(Doctors) will still wake up asking for more from D̶̲̥̅̊ govt. And even striking 2 bend D̶̲̥̅̊ hand of FG forgetting their primary aim of saving lives. Mos of dese docs have private clinics opened with D̶̲̥̅̊ cash they get from D̶̲̥̅̊ govt. Nobody hates them, they hate τ̲̅ђe pple they're called 2 serve. point of correction... doctors are not the highest paid workers in nigeria... please do your research well before posting online i dont know where you get your info and statistics... are you well? and your writing is disheartening ... please if you want people to take you seriously, improve |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by DebateNigeria: 11:50pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
kmariko:Most times, they are Vice President of Nursing services... You can re-check. But when it comes to administration, there is usually a meeting. Even when disciplinary actions want to be taken against doctors, I am sure non doctors are made members of such panels. Yes, even in our hospitals, some nurses rank higher than doctors, eg the head of nursing services or clinical services (if a nurse) will definitely be higher than other health workers (doctors inclusive). But looking at it in a broader perspective, the doctor will always take the lead, from leading the clinics and or ward visits, to making final decisions concerning patients, to administrative hierarchy in the hospital. |
Re: NMA Vs JOHESU Vs FG Vs Patients........ Why the hatred for doctors??? by kmariko: 11:50pm On Jul 11, 2014 |
DebateNigeria:. I believe that the schedule of a general practioner is so because the NMA wants it as such... Many countries have moved on. in some places there are Nurse practioners, Physician assistants, Advanced Pharm.Ds that see patients, diagonise and prescribe medications. Introduce that in the country and reduce the load with the resultant wider access to health care in the country |
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