kmariko:

While you are at it sir, look up St. Luke's some of their vice presidents are RNs.

I will look it up. But I am also interested in the hierarchy. For your information, in the Nigerian hospital setting, this is what it looks like,
1. Board chairman (not a medical doctor, probably a politician)
2. CMD (medical doctor)
3. CMAC (medical doctor)
4. dIrector of administration (a public administrator)
5. Head of Pharmacy
6. Head of nursing
Etc

DebateNigeria:
I will look it up. But I am also interested in the hierarchy. For your information, in the Nigerian hospital setting, this is what it looks like,
1. Board chairman (not a medical doctor, probably a politician)
2. CMD (medical doctor)
3. CMAC (medical doctor)
4. dIrector of administration (a public administrator)
5. Head of Pharmacy
6. Head of nursing
Etc

So what is the equivalent of a CEO and or president in Nigerian setting

kmariko: CEO of Herman memorial Hospital ( one of the largest in Houston) is not an MD



Craig Cordola Named CEO of Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center
HOUSTON, TX (September28, 2010)



Memorial Hermann Healthcare System recently announced the promotion of Craig Cordola to CEO, Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center, following his successful and widely respected seven-year tenure as Assistant Vice President and then CEO of Children's Memorial Hermann Hospital . Cordola is also the Associate Dean for Hospital Affairs and Community Partnerships at The University of Texas Medical School - Houston. He succeeds Juanita Romans, who is retiring.

He joined Memorial Hermann in 2003 as assistant vice president of operations for the Children's Hospital, with additional responsibilities overseeing volunteer, environmental, facility and chaplaincy services for the Memorial Hermann-TMC. Previously, he worked as A Director of Operations for Texas Children's Pediatric Associates and Texas Children's Hospital after serving in management capacities for other healthcare organizations.

Cordola has served as an adjunct faculty member of the University of Houston Clear Lake Healthcare Administration Program and a board member of the university's alumni association. He holds master's degrees in business and healthcare administration from the University of Houston at Clear Lake and a bachelor's degree in psychology from the University of Texas at Austin. Cordola is a fellow in the American College of Healthcare Executives, and serves on numerous community boards.

How many times will you be corrected?

Shakes85:
How many times will you be corrected?

What correction

kmariko:

What correction

Sorry posted wrongly

kmariko:

So what is the equivalent of a CEO and or president in Nigerian setting

Anytime you look at the leadership always try to look at the hierarchy .... It will help you make a logical conclusion. Also look at my last post and try to work on it. I will be amazed to see a nurse or pharmacist or laboratory scientist who is not a health manager as CEO or CMD or President as you have been posting.

DebateNigeria:
Anytime you look at the leadership always try to look at the hierarchy .... It will help you make a logical conclusion. Also look at my last post and try to work on it. I will be amazed to see a nurse or pharmacist or laboratory scientist who is not a health manager as CEO or CMD or President as you have been posting.

Sir, OK to make it little simpler to understand each other..

Who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital

Ok a pharmacist is the chairman of board of national hospital Abuja. Doesn't that make sense now? The chairman of board is equivalent to the CEO, he and his board members including all the directors make policies concerning the hospitals day to day activities. As expected the CMD- Medical director is a doctor as obtains all over the world. Talk about benchmarking with world's best practices!

dakotchic: Ok a pharmacist is the chairman of board of national hospital Abuja. Doesn't that make sense now? The chairman of board is equivalent to the CEO, he and his board members including all the directors make policies concerning the hospitals day to day activities. As expected the CMD- Medical director is a doctor as obtains all over the world. Talk about benchmarking with world's best practices!

Again my question is ...who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital

kmariko:

Sir, OK to make it little simpler to understand each other..

Who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital

A medical director who reports to a board chairman and must seek approval of such a board before making important decisions

kmariko: President of the famed Texas Children hospital is not an MD

Mark A. Wallace
President and Chief Executive Officer

Mark A. Wallace was appointed President and Chief Executive Officer of Texas Children's Hospital in 1989, at the age of 36. Under his leadership, Texas Children's Hospital has grown into one of the nation’s largest and most comprehensive pediatric and women’s health care organizations, garnering more than 3.2 million patient encounters annually, achieving international recognition as a referral center and ranking among the best pediatric hospitals in the nation.

Mark A. WallaceIn 2013, Texas Children’s Hospital was once again named as a national leader among pediatric hospitals in U.S.News & World Report’s 2012-13 edition of Best Children’s Hospitals. Ranked 4th among all children’s hospitals nationally and one of only 12 hospitals to achieve the Honor Roll designation, Texas Children’s is the only hospital in Texas – and the entire southern region of the U.S. – awarded this distinction. And it was founded at least 60 years later than all of the other top-ranked hospitals on the list.



Prior to his current position at Texas Children's Hospital, Mr. Wallace was a senior vice president at The Methodist Hospital in Houston, Texas, having both staff-related and extensive line operation responsibilities in a large, tertiary care, teaching environment. Mr. Wallace holds the distinction of being one of the few executives in the country who advanced to fellowship status in the American College of Healthcare Executives (ACHE) at the age of 35. Continuing his involvement with ACHE, he has served twice as president of the Houston chapter.



Mr. Wallace holds degrees from Oklahoma Baptist University and Washington University in St. Louis. He is married to Shannon Baronette Wallace, and they have two children, five grandsons and one granddaughter.

this guy , would you please stop confusing people here? The President of Johns Hopkins hospital is a non-doctor .This is comparable to the Hospital board Chairman in Nigeria. However , MD/CEO is a doctor !

Oduduwaboy:

this guy , would you please stop confusing people here? The President of Johns Hopkins hospital is a non-doctor .This is comparable to the Hospital board Chairman in Nigeria. However , MD/CEO is a doctor !

Texas children CEO is not an MD please

DebateNigeria:
A medical director who reports to a board chairman and must seek approval of such a board before making important decisions

So in Nigeria the Hospital day to day running AKA a CEO must be an MD

dakotchic: Ok a pharmacist is the chairman of board of national hospital Abuja. Doesn't that make sense now? The chairman of board is equivalent to the CEO, he and his board members including all the directors make policies concerning the hospitals day to day activities. As expected the CMD- Medical director is a doctor as obtains all over the world. Talk about benchmarking with world's best practices!

In Nigeria , the CEO of hospitals are the CMD / MDs who are responsible for the day to day running of the hospitals.

kmariko:

Again my question is ...who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital

To answer your question, this is how it looks like in UBTH, one of the tertiary hospitals in Nigeria.

http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board
http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board1&id=34

The head is even a political scientist, without him, nothing can be done in that hospital.

kmariko:

Again my question is ...who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital

gain my question is ...who is in charge of the day to day running of a Nigerian hospital[/quote]
To answer your question, this is how it looks like in UBTH, one of the tertiary hospitals in Nigeria.

http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board
http://www.ubth.org/main.php?board1&id=34

PerfectFortune: The OP may claim not to be bias in his judgment but in my opinion, he is very bias.

To begin with, I don't think ppl hate Drs cos it's a title anyway but the attitude of the holder of the title. For your information, majority of the ppl don't like Nurses either part of the reason which has been stressed out already by the OP but they seldom disturb us Strike actions and selfish demands.

I am not saying there are no competent health care providers in the country, it won't be fear on them but the majority of them are incompetent.

I can safely say 70 percent of the so called Drs are incompetent but they want to be treated as gods.

Majority of the Drs working at various govt owned hospitals also work elsewhere either at their own private hospitals or get a job with a private hospital all to the deteriment of the poor masses who frequent the govt owned hospitals.

In most govt owned hospitals, you hardly find a Dr that practise the true essence of the profession but those that are arrogant, selfish and complete cheats.

Take the FMC ebute metta for instance, patients rush to the hospital as early as 5.30/6am to pick nos so they can attended to and return home early enf as it is not like anybody likes going to the hospital anyway but the Drs stroll in around 9.30/10am with no apology the long waiting anxious patients (since they beliv they shld be worshipd) and by 1pm they stop consultation till the next day leaving for their various private hospitals.

If I should start talking about their level of incompetence, the whole page will not contain it as there are even on several occassions where they are corrected by Nurses (on medication prescriptns).

In simple terms, ppl don't hate Drs but the attitude of the holder of the title. They are arrogant, selfish, incompetent, cheats and the big bang, "Killers" going on strike to divert patients to their private hospitals.

I will keep saying it, herbalists are better than most Nigerian Drs..

FG, JOHESU and indeed all hate-filled Nigerians who feel doctors' demands are greedy, arrogant and misplaced have a very easy way out of this problem... PRIVATISATION. Simple. Let government privatise all the services in federal hospitals to start with. Medical doctors, nurses, pharmacists, optometrists, lab scientists/tech, engineers, accountants everybody should work and justify their earnings. It will be clearer who are greedy. I am a medical doctor and I have had the privilege of working at all levels of care- primary, secondary and tertiary and in both private and public hospitals. I haven't seen it all but I appreciate the difference and know what good service delivery and client satisfaction mean. And I can say that the easy generalisation is one way of misinforming the public and gaining undeserved sympathy. But I hate to be involved in needless online debates. Let us take the hard step of leaving govt out of running health care. Infact there will be moire jobs at the end of the day. The economy will also grow because medical tourism will reduce and phone consultations, unauthorised prescriptions and illegal health facilities will be abolished. Lets copy the US health systems wholly.
The money FG will save from the privatisation should go into providing insurance coverage for Nigerians depending on their employment status and vulnerability. Who is afraid of 100% health insurance coverage for Nigerians as stated in the doctors' demands?
Govt should please take this measure. it may be difficult at the initial stage but the whole country and her citizens will be better for it. Let anyone also be able to open and run hospitals and place whichever category of health professional to head them.

kmariko:

So in Nigeria the Hospital day to day running AKA a CEO must be an MD

Yes, that's how it is in the USA as you have shown. I as a person do not support for doctors to head the health sector, I prefer health managers. But if the head must come from the health sector, then it must be the doctors.
You can prove me wrong by showing me any hospital in the USA where a career nurse is the head of that hospital or a medical laboratory scientist or pharmacist. I am not talking about board chairman, I am talking about CEO or COO or whatever.

kmariko:

Texas children CEO is not an MD please

Yes, neither is he a nurse, a laboratory scientist nor a pharmacist. Now who is the next person after him in terms of hierarchy? A doctor.
Please go back to my post to look at the hierarchy.

Oduduwaboy:
In Nigeria , the CEO of hospitals are the CMD / MDs who are responsible for the day to day running of the hospitals.

So a CEO is merely an administrator of an establishment. And to run an establishment depends purely on managerial endowment ... As in degrees in administration. Management . or a natural talent for leadership acquired from experience through the rigorous climb of the coprotate rather. So are Nigerian Hospitals redefing these qualities or taking them to be irrelevant in the management of hospitals.

DebateNigeria:
Yes, neither is he a nurse, a laboratory scientist nor a pharmacist. Now who is the next person after him in terms of hierarchy? A doctor.
Please go back to my post to look at the hierarchy.

The point is that a hospital CEO can be anyone with the right managerial skills and have absolutely nothing to do with whether the person is an MD. RN.Pharm.D. etc.
An RN (as an example) with a good managerial skill can still make a good hospital CEO.
Again. Do you mean a Pharm.D (example) with an MBA or PHd in hospital management and a good managerial skill cannot run a Hospital?

kmariko:

So a CEO is merely an administrator of an establishment. And to run an establishment depends purely on managerial endowment ... As in degrees in administration. Management . or a natural talent for leadership acquired from experience through the rigorous climb of the coprotate rather. So are Nigerian Hospitals redefing these qualities or taking them to be irrelevant in the management of hospitals.

Bro I share in your pain and quite understand what you are trying to say. What we should be fighting for should be for health managers to take over the administration of our hospital, people who have managerial skills, not doctors who treat patients and after some years they will climb up to management position. In my opinion, health managers should run the hospitals while a doctor should be appointed as head of clinical service (second in the hierarchy) then others should be HODs. With this, favoritism and all will stop, our hospitals will be better managed. If anybody wants to head the hospital, whether you are a doctor or a nurse or a pharmacist, all you have to do is to climb the ladder, go back to school and take some courses in management.

kmariko:

The point is that a hospital CEO can be anyone with the right managerial skills and have absolutely nothing to do with whether the person is an MD. RN.Pharm.D. etc.
An RN (as an example) with a good managerial skill can still make a good hospital CEO.
Again. Do you mean a Pharm.D (example) with an MBA or PHd in hospital management and a good managerial skill cannot run a Hospital?

Exactly my point. Now we are getting somewhere. Most nurses in the USA have MBA yet they will never be head over a doctor. If there is any, let me know.
Point is that if they want to become health managers, no need to practice at all, take management courses, start climbing the ladder ( and off course medical knowledge will be an added advantage).
I know some hospitals own by nurses ( that makes them CEO) but after them as CEO, the next person is the doctor, he earns more, makes decision that others must respect and even the CEO dare not interfere in his management of patients.

Janiobi: When you guys starts saving lifes first than bodring about the registration and hospital fees b4 operating on patients then we would care for you guys...Imagine an injured person runing to a nearby hospital to receive care and Died right there cause he had not the money to pay for his treatment,So he was not responded too. W.T.F is going on with doc?

universal insurance that will take care of such a scenario is part of the reasons doctors are on strike. ask yourself if you're insured, quit ranting and stop being emotional, be rational, think, save money and plan for that time that you will need help instead of investing in big cars and other frivolities or rather call your fg to help you. do you know how many patients abscond from hospitals, nigerians dont pay after treatment, it is in our nature, we rather use the money for thanksgiving in church because the doctor was made to be humanitarian and treat you for free.by time a good number of the type of emergency you described runs down the hospital, you and the public wont bail them out... the hospital is also a business that has debts too... rent, nepa, equipment, drugs do not drop from heaven, they are bought with money. maybe banks should start giving free lifesaving loans too

sexyexcalibur: the hatred is not only in Nigeria... even in the US doctors are hated because the public thinks they are paid excessively despite the global recession..... doctors give their life for you in training, the pressure in medical school can be so much that even the best student this year might be withdrawn the next year.... most of those who hate doctor's have their reasons, I understand that,but the generalized hate is not fair at all..... despite all this hatred , a doctor takes solace anytime he saves a life. the patients gratitude gives him the feeling I can't explain.... the fact that the Number of students applying for medicine increase yearly gives him assurance..... and yea, the fact that some of this health professionals were withdrawn from medicine or refused the course when they applied shows him he z privileged... we don't care about those who hate online..we care about those who come to us... they love us, and that is enough

gbam!

PerfectFortune: The OP may claim not to be bias in his judgment but in my opinion, he is very bias.

To begin with, I don't think ppl hate Drs cos it's a title anyway but the attitude of the holder of the title. For your information, majority of the ppl don't like Nurses either part of the reason which has been stressed out already by the OP but they seldom disturb us Strike actions and selfish demands.

I am not saying there are no competent health care providers in the country, it won't be fear on them but the majority of them are incompetent.

I can safely say 70 percent of the so called Drs are incompetent but they want to be treated as gods.

Majority of the Drs working at various govt owned hospitals also work elsewhere either at their own private hospitals or get a job with a private hospital all to the deteriment of the poor masses who frequent the govt owned hospitals.

In most govt owned hospitals, you hardly find a Dr that practise the true essence of the profession but those that are arrogant, selfish and complete cheats.

Take the FMC ebute metta for instance, patients rush to the hospital as early as 5.30/6am to pick nos so they can attended to and return home early enf as it is not like anybody likes going to the hospital anyway but the Drs stroll in around 9.30/10am with no apology the long waiting anxious patients (since they beliv they shld be worshipd) and by 1pm they stop consultation till the next day leaving for their various private hospitals.

If I should start talking about their level of incompetence, the whole page will not contain it as there are even on several occassions where they are corrected by Nurses (on medication prescriptns).

In simple terms, ppl don't hate Drs but the attitude of the holder of the title. They are arrogant, selfish, incompetent, cheats and the big bang, "Killers" going on strike to divert patients to their private hospitals.

I will keep saying it, herbalists are better than most Nigerian Drs..

i'm being nice if i call you a ranting fool... you are one of the worst cases of clear ignorance forming knowledge, cant even write clear english and correct tenses

see... public hospitals are overwhelmed by too many people in nigeria and too little doctors. go and check the WHO doctor patient ratios and ask you father whether he kept your personal slave in the hospital . doctors like me 'stroll' into your little myopic frustrated world/viewpoint at the clinic by 9am because we have been working till then on the wards , accident and emergency and in the theatres even before you entered the hospital. thats why i always say that patients that have problems that get them admitted in the hospital wards understand what happens in the morning before clinics.
people of little intelligence perceive others as arrogant... that's normal, inferiority complex can be conquered with a little counselling which you certainly need... i can feel the weight of your cerebral cortex in your dribble... it feels like blended mush in the carton you call skull
if you feel doctors are incompetent... stop crying on this page and take action,its a free world and nobody forced you to wait long hours in public hospitals to see them... go and pay more in private hospitals like lagoon or go and see your herbalist...simple

DebateNigeria:
Exactly my point. Now we are getting somewhere. Most nurses in the USA have MBA yet they will never be head over a doctor. If there is any, let me know.
Point is that if they want to become health managers, no need to practice at all, take management courses, start climbing the ladder ( and off course medical knowledge will be an added advantage).
I know some hospitals own by nurses ( that makes them CEO) but after them as CEO, the next person is the doctor, he earns more, makes decision that others must respect and even the CEO dare not interfere in his management of patients.

what do you mean head over a doctor
So some of the RNs who are vice presidents are not making decisions for doctors. Or that some nurse anesthetist who make operating decisions that the doctors have to abide are non existent
Lastly some nurses earn more than doctors not counting overtime.
So what exactly do you mean by head over.

DebateNigeria:
Exactly my point. Now we are getting somewhere. Most nurses in the USA have MBA yet they will never be head over a doctor. If there is any, let me know.
Point is that if they want to become health managers, no need to practice at all, take management courses, start climbing the ladder ( and off course medical knowledge will be an added advantage).
I know some hospitals own by nurses ( that makes them CEO) but after them as CEO, the next person is the doctor, he earns more, makes decision that others must respect and even the CEO dare not interfere in his management of patients.

.

there is no law anywhere that says that because you are promoted to manage an establish you relinquish your practice of your beloved profession.... if there is point it out for me.

dumodust:
i'm being nice if i call you a ranting fool... you are one of the worst cases of clear ignorance forming knowledge, cant even write clear english

see... public hospitals are overwhelmed by too many people in nigeria and too little doctors. go and check the WHO doctor patient ratios and ask you father whether he kept your personal slave in the hospital . doctors like me 'stroll' into your little myopic frustrated world/viewpoint at the clinic by 9am because we have been working till then on the wards , accident and emergency and in the theatres even before you entered the hospital. thats why i always say that patients that have problems that get them admitted in the hospital wards understand what happens in the morning before clinics.
people of little intelligence perceive others as arrogant... that's normal, inferiority complex can be conquered with a little counselling which you certainly need... i cant feel the wieght of your cerebral cortex in your dribble... like fried egg
if you feel doctors are incompetent... stop crying on this page and take action,its a free world and nobody forced you to wait long hours in public hospitals to see them... go and pay more in private hospitals like lagoon or go and see your herbalist...simple

Wow.. You can really drive home your point without being too emotional.
I have been able to witness the schedule of a medical doctor and I was marveled. The next question that came to my mind was what is the life expectancy of an average Nigerian doctor.
Sincerely speaking, those in the teaching hospitals and general hospitals are working like machines.

Opusy: It Iڪ so disheartening that τ̲̅ђe highest paid workers(Doctors) will still wake up asking for more from D̶̲̥̅̊ govt. And even striking 2 bend D̶̲̥̅̊ hand of FG forgetting their primary aim of saving lives. Mos of dese docs have private clinics opened with D̶̲̥̅̊ cash they get from D̶̲̥̅̊ govt. Nobody hates them, they hate τ̲̅ђe pple they're called 2 serve.
They should go 2 dia former primary And secondary schools And take a look at how τ̲̅ђe teachers who built their interest .i̶̲̥̅̊n̶̲̥̅̊ Medicine are suffering.
Yet they open dia dirty mouth 2 vomit rubbish.

point of correction... doctors are not the highest paid workers in nigeria... please do your research well before posting online
i dont know where you get your info and statistics... are you well?
and your writing is disheartening ... please if you want people to take you seriously, improve

kmariko:

what do you mean head over a doctor
So some of the RNs who are vice presidents are not making decisions for doctors. Or that some nurse anesthetist who make operating decisions that the doctors have to abide are non existent
Lastly some nurses earn more than doctors not counting overtime.
So what exactly do you mean by head over.

Most times, they are Vice President of Nursing services... You can re-check. But when it comes to administration, there is usually a meeting. Even when disciplinary actions want to be taken against doctors, I am sure non doctors are made members of such panels.
Yes, even in our hospitals, some nurses rank higher than doctors, eg the head of nursing services or clinical services (if a nurse) will definitely be higher than other health workers (doctors inclusive). But looking at it in a broader perspective, the doctor will always take the lead, from leading the clinics and or ward visits, to making final decisions concerning patients, to administrative hierarchy in the hospital.

DebateNigeria:

Wow.. You can really drive home your point without being too emotional.
I have been able to witness the schedule of a medical doctor and I was marveled. The next question that came to my mind was what is the life expectancy of an average Nigerian doctor.
Sincerely speaking, those in the teaching hospitals and general hospitals are working like machines.

.

I believe that the schedule of a general practioner is so because the NMA wants it as such... Many countries have moved on. in some places there are Nurse practioners, Physician assistants, Advanced Pharm.Ds that see patients, diagonise and prescribe medications. Introduce that in the country and reduce the load with the resultant wider access to health care in the country