@Nimshi,
Though we don't agree But i like the way you articulate you point

Again, may I reinstate my point that no knowledgeable boxing analyst will rate Mike Tyson as the greatest boxer of all. That accolade is reserved for the trio of Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali and Henry Armstrong. And Sugar Ray in most people’s view wins that honour of being the best pound for pound boxer in history.

But since the debate seems to focus on three heavyweights (Ali, Tyson and Marciano), Ali still shades it. For all posters who are pro-Tyson, one obvious flaw in your analysis is your failure to analyse the competitive era (or lack of it, as the case was with Tyson) of Ali and Tyson.

Now let's see Tyson's credible list:

Tyrell Biggs, Pinklon Thomas, Frank Bruno, Razor Ruddock, (and even Buster Douglas who beat him), Michael Spinks (who really was a Light heavy weight), Tony Tucker, James Smith, Holmes (washed up when he fought Tyson), Trevor Berbick, Carl Williams, etc

Can you guys seriously tell me a credible opponent of world class status that any of these beat before facing Tyson?


Now let’s look at Ali’s credible opponents. He fought Joe Frasier, Ken Norton, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Shavers, Sonny Liston, Henry Cooper, George Foreman, etc.



Now in analyzing both fighters, look at the opponents they faced. Most of Ali’s credible opponents were quality world class opponents.

Next, examine the caliber of opponents those “credible” opponents faced. For instance, Ali beat Norton, but Norton was no bum. He fought Larry Holmes to a standstill over 15 grueling rounds.

Next, look at the records of the opponents that both Ali and Tyson faced. Ali best Foreman, but Foreman (next to Archie Moore and Marciano) has one of the highest number of knockouts in heavy weight history.

When Ali faced big tests he pulled through and won against these opponents. When Tyson faced real tests against credible opponents, he crumbled big time. And don’t bring up the jail time accuse. He was training in the gym. Read up on this. Google is your friend. Ali too was out of boxing for about two years. No matter. That didn’t dull his boxing skills. Or didn’t Tyson win back the title after his first spell in prison against Bruno?


In picking the greatest heavyweight, it’s easy to want to pick a fighter we know so well and have seen fight on many occasions on our TV screens. But if you were not privileged to watch most of Ali’s fights, at least read up on what respected boxing analysts say about the issue. It may be a matter of opinion at the end of the day, but great ness is not normally assigned to a boxer simply because he knocked his opponents silly.

FACT: Sonny Liston and George Foreman were meaner and badder than Tyson. FACT: Foreman has more knockouts than Tyson for example. But you will never hear of Foreman or Liston being touted as the greatest.

Let’s not abandon objectivity in favour of bias here. And if pro-Tyson supporters want to argue this until they are blue in the face, simply google “the greatest heavyweight of all time” and paste your results from various websites here. As for the greatest boxer of all time, you wouldn’t even find Tyson’s name in any respected website as No1.

Go figure.

I would have Tyson

He had a longer, illustrious, infamous and controversial career!!

MrCrackles:

I would have Tyson

He had a longer, illustrious, infamous and controversial career!!

So for the simple reason that he had a long and illustrious career, that makes him the "greatest"?

This has now degenerated into a joke. At least I can laugh, not at you but at your assertions.

~Sauron~:

Don't mind these historians. . . . . .
Many of em never saw the phenomenom(Mike Tyson). . . .
How can someone go to jail for 3 years in HIS PRIME and u expect him to just pick up and continue like nuthing happened.
He was young and emotionally damaged. . . . .Picture a multi-millionaire who was prolly used to the life of opulence and all of a sudden, JAILED!!!
Cheese n Rice. . . . .Only God knows what woulda happened if Iron Mike never went to jail.

Saroun, that's the most utter gibberish I have read on this thread.
Who sent Tyson to jail?Me or Nairalanders?If he was responsible enough not to let his phantom success get into his blockhead,we wouldn't be talking about this issue.
Besides,he had lost his air of "invincibility" when the ultimate fluke,Buster Douglas (who had lost 3 of his previous 4 fights before facing Tyson) whipped him silly.FACT:He was already in decline when he got to jail and was dead scared of Holyfield.He feigned injury to avoid him on at least one occasion.

Ali was BANNED from boxing because of Vietnam.That is worse,because he was suddenly reduced to a NOBODY:his license was revoked all around America and he couldn't even train.And he was supposed to be "free",not in jail.He was also undefeated before he was banned.
Believe me,there is a HUGE difference between their scenarios.

Dayokanu,stop talking thrash about Ali hugging opponents.If you have watched any of his fights,(which I very much doubt you have) you would in no way draw this lousy conclusion if you are being rational about this debate.

~Sauron~:

Don't mind these historians. . . . . .
Many of em never saw the phenomenom(Mike Tyson). . . .
How can someone go to jail for 3 years in HIS PRIME and u expect him to just pick up and continue like nuthing happened.
He was young and emotionally damaged. . . . .Picture a multi-millionaire who was prolly used to the life of opulence and all of a sudden, JAILED!!!
Cheese n Rice. . . . .Only God knows what woulda happened if Iron Mike never went to jail.

Holmes isn't my hero. Get that clear.
Besides, ask any boxing historian and they will tell you that the two fights (Holmes/Spinks)were shrouded in controversy.Most analysts still think today that Holmes was robbed in particularly the second fight.If my memory serves me correct,he was floored by holmes in that fight but the ref didn't even give a standing eight count.
And what did Spinks do after that?He ducked Tony Tucker,who was supposed to be his mandatory challenger for the IBF title.This same Tucker landed a ferrocious right hook on Tyson's jaw in their first round and took that silly brute to 12 rounds on a broken right hand.
Spinks hasn't done anything since beating Dwight Mohammed Qawi in 85 or 86 (can't really remember) at LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT.

Ali took on all comers as they came.He didn't dodge people he thought were stronger.If not we wouldn't have seen the Rumble in the Jungle.Regarded as the no1 fight of all time.

Tell me if this sounds of greatness:
a)Bite people in the ear after it becomes clear that you can't win.
b)Avoid people you see as genuine threats/better than you.
c)Get beaten by journeymen,flukes,nobodies.(including looking seriously for your gum shield on the canvas after being knocked down) and beating arranged opponents with no credibility,past or present except the claim that they once fought you.
d)Have no epic or classic battles in your career
e)Wipe the sweat of your face after being pummeled by a better rival.
f)Have only one formula to win and look lost when being dominated

Tyson.

Tell me if this sounds of greatness:
a)Bite people in the ear after it becomes clear that you can't win.
b)Avoid people you see as genuine threats/better than you.
c)Get beaten by journeymen,flukes,nobodies.(including looking seriously for your gum shield on the canvas after being knocked down) and beating arranged opponents with no credibility,past or present except the claim that they once fought you.
d)Have no epic or classic battles in your career
e)Wipe the sweat of your's rivals face after being pummeled to pulp
f)Have only one formula to win and look lost when being dominated

Tyson.

Eastbay:

Saroun, that's the most utter gibberish I have read on this thread.
Who sent Tyson to jail?Me or Nairalanders?If he was responsible enough not to let his phantom success get into his blockhead,we wouldn't be talking about this issue.
Besides,he had lost his air of "invincibility" when the ultimate fluke,Buster Douglas (who had lost 3 of his previous 4 fights before facing Tyson) whipped him silly.FACT:He was already in decline when he got to jail and was dead scared of Holyfield.He feigned injury to avoid him on at least one occasion.

Ali was BANNED from boxing because of Vietnam.That is worse,because he was suddenly reduced to a NOBODY:his license was revoked all around America and he couldn't even train.And he was supposed to be "free",not in jail.He was also undefeated before he was banned.
Believe me,there is a HUGE difference between their scenarios.

Dayokanu,stop talking thrash about Ali hugging opponents.If you have watched any of his fights,(which I very much doubt you have) you would in no way draw this lousy conclusion if you are being rational about this debate.
Holmes isn't my hero. Get that clear.
Besides, ask any boxing historian and they will tell you that the two fights (Holmes/Spinks)were shrouded in controversy.Most analysts still think today that Holmes was robbed in particularly the second fight.If my memory serves me correct,he was floored by holmes in that fight but the ref didn't even give a standing eight count.
And what did Spinks do after that?He ducked Tony Tucker,who was supposed to be his mandatory challenger for the IBF title.This same Tucker landed a ferrocious right hook on Tyson's jaw in their first round and took that silly brute to 12 rounds on a broken right hand.
Spinks hasn't done anything since beating Dwight Mohammed Qawi in 85 or 86 (can't really remember) at LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT.

Ali took on all comers as they came.He didn't dodge people he thought were stronger. If not we wouldn't have seen the Rumble in the Jungle.Regarded as the no1 fight of all time.

Easybay (I have to include Kay Pumping here as well),

You obviously know your boxing. We have stated the obvious and people who know the obvious will refuse to contradict the truth.

I have set pro -tyson supporters a challenge. I want them to google the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time and click on any of these sites. If they can find tyson's name being touted as the greatest, let them copy and paste here for all to see.

And if they were to google the grestest boxer of all time, Tyson's name is not even mentioned at all.

But why are we flogging a dead issue anyway? The stats of the poll showing on Nairaland indicates Ali's a run away winner. So would many websites the world over. If they doubt it, hey google is their friend. But alas, no matter how many times you play the truth, some people will turn a deaf ear to it or even run away from it.

Next Level,
Thanks man.
You ain't no slouch yourself.
Tyson's victims,as you listed,were just jobbers,basically.The only one guy he could have claimed to have any credibility at all (Holmes) came out of a two-year retirement after he got pissed with being robbed by his losses to Spinks.

Dayokanu once mentioned that Tyson beat Spinks who beat Ali.
He doesn't even have his facts right. How can we argue with such a person?
Saroun talks like he just got excited about boxing because of Samuel Peter.
We CANNOT compare the eras of Tyson and Ali,because the guys in Ali's era were credible,fearsome and good.Foreman whipped Frazier like a dog before the Rumble;yet this same Frazier provided the Thriller in Manilla wih Ali.The point is, the guys in that era were good enough to bounce back from a heavy loss, unlike those in Tyson's era.Michael Spinks,Tucker,Bonecrusher,Berbick,Pinklin Thomas,Tubbs, the list goes on, which of those guys came back to have anything even resembling a career?
Then there were the beatings.Ali struggled with faster opponents:Norton,Leon Spinks,but he always found a way to win.
Tyson struggled with nobodies,and when he got caught,he looked like a clueless idiot.The only credible guys he fought:Evander,Lewis schooled the brute and made him look silly.

Eastbay:

Next Level,
Thanks man.
You ain't no slouch yourself.
Tyson's victims,as you listed,were just jobbers,basically.The only one guy he could have claimed to have any credibility at all (Holmes) came out of a two-year retirement after he got pissed with being robbed by his losses to Spinks.

Dayokanu once mentioned that Tyson beat Spinks who beat Ali.
He doesn't even have his facts right. How can we argue with such a person?
Saroun talks like he just got excited about boxing because of Samuel Peter.
We CANNOT compare the eras of Tyson and Ali,because the guys in Ali's era were credible,fearsome and good.Foreman whipped Frazier like a dog before the Rumble;yet this same Frazier provided the Thriller in Manilla wih Ali.The point is, the guys in that era were good enough to bounce back from a heavy loss, unlike those in Tyson's era.Michael Spinks,Tucker,Bonecrusher,Berbick,Pinklin Thomas,Tubbs, the list goes on, which of those guys came back to have anything even resembling a career?
Then there were the beatings.Ali struggled with faster opponents:Norton,Leon Spinks,but he always found a way to win.
Tyson struggled with nobodies,and when he got caught,he looked like a clueless idiot.The only credible guys he fought:Evander,Lewis schooled the brute and made him look silly.

Thanks Easy Bay, I graciously accept the compliment.

As some people may or may not know, they will always notice a marked difference when people are discussing any issue. It's either one is way off the mark and has no clue and only wants to make a contribution or the two are on the same plane but only differ on minute details. And that is the only reason an argument or debate is fully sustained by the latter group.

Facts are one thing that no matter how contrived they are, can still withstand the test of time, especially when empirical evidence is provided to back them up. Bias does not come into play here.

However when it comes to opinion, views no matter how varied they are expressed, can easily be subjected to scrutiny. If bias come into an expressed opinion, it will only serve to dilute any strong argument being put forward. Any rational person knows this.

As I stated earlier, I have set the pro-Tyson supporters a challenge, if they rise to it and deliver then we can continue to have this discourse. Until then, let the truth seek solace in objectivity whilst ignorance continues to wallow and bask in a narrow minded world view.

Why is this list dominated by the heavyweights. . . .

Warreva happened to the Fantastic Four, Joe Calzaghe etc. . .

Next Level,
You too much.
Listen, do you hear the sound of the pro-Tyson camp.
No,because they are just basing their argument on emotion.I think your challenge is a little bt too much for them.

Tyson brought the sport into disrepute.Biting people's ears(Holyfield) and legs (Lewis) and saying he wants to eat people's children.Even with all the hype about boxing, his actions were a disgrace.That's someone some people want to say is the Greatest.
Ali didn't.Ali had respect for the game and it as evident the way he made it global.He predicted the round he would drop you and backed it up;and after the fight would compose a rhyme about it.He was not only good in the ring,he was a showman,not a brooding gorilla like Tyson who couldn't even mumble anything cohesive in front of the press.
If he was so great,why then is he boxing for exhibition?Like a circus act.The guy needs help.Dayokanu,Saroun,rescue your hero!
doyin13,
the topic is about heavyweights,but truth is, there are some great middleweights as well.Hagler,Sugar Ray Leonard.Even Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran.
But even then I think Ali is unrivalled.The funnny thing is when the Heavyweight division became a joke (i.e. when Tyson was on top),the middleweight division was actually the place to be in if you loved boxing

Ibime,
Where you dey?
Show yourself.A true boxing guy like you has been too quiet.
Don't let those clowns take over this thread by yarning dust.
Someone says Tyson would have won the gulf war with his punches.
Is that a silly attempt at comedy or is he really serious because the way I see it,it adds no value whatsoever to this discussion.
You throw Bert sugar's view:widely respected in boxing circles-some say he is perhaps the no.1 analyst in the world for boxing-and some jackass(es) are saying ridiculous things like that.

Eastbay:

Saroun, that's the most utter gibberish I have read on this thread.
Who sent Tyson to jail?Me or Nairalanders?If he was responsible enough not to let his phantom success get into his blockhead,we wouldn't be talking about this issue.
Besides,he had lost his air of "invincibility" when the ultimate fluke,Buster Douglas (who had lost 3 of his previous 4 fights before facing Tyson) whipped him silly.FACT:He was already in decline when he got to jail and was dead scared of Holyfield.He feigned injury to avoid him on at least one occasion.

This the biggest heap of twaddle i have ever read on this forum.
How can u compare life in jail to Ali that had his license revoked. . . . . .
We don't even know if Tyson commited the crime he was convicted of. . . .That alone was enough to damage a man of his age!!!
Ali refused to fight in Vietnam(that was his choice) and he was mentally ready for the consequences plus he had freedom to go anywhere.
Tyson was LOCKED UP, 2 different scenarios!!!!

Tyson was no friend of the media so naturally most media would never rate him top.

Same with Pele and Maradona. Maradona is a bad boy But pele is a suit wearing good boy so most media would always acclaim Pele.

Tyson bit someone, how fickle! have you all forgotten how Holyfield headbutted him all the way?

Maybe its like a Ram fight that Holyfield had to use his head.

Holyfield lost to Moorer, Lewis to Rahman These are people who just fight to make money yet you are all screaming about Tyson-Douglas.

Anyone who saw the bout would see Tyson clearly knocking out the dude while the ref had to do some funny stuvvs with the count.

Tyson was not ready for that Bout and he was probably tipsy because he was coming from a Night club.

Those who said he never came back, i wonder why peoples memory are notoriously short and twisted.  After Douglas, Tyson beat Stewart and Tillman who was an Olympic gold medalist in the first round yet You all claim he was a nobody The guy has a reputation as good as if not better than Holyfield and Lewis yet you would not notice either in ignorance or Mischief. Tyson came back from jail and won 2 Belts yet we hear that he never came back

From what i read, Tyson was scheduled to fight Holyfield in Fall 1992 and he was arrested in July maybe he avoided the fight by DELIBERATELY raping Miss Washington because he does not want to fight holyfield. So much for warped thinking.

Tyson did not do competitive boxing between June 1991 and late 1995 more than 4 years and you expect him to be the same. Tell me any sportman who took a 4 years leave and came back the same way he left.

If you want to Judge Tyson Judge from what you see not what you read in the media. You can only hear one thing about "The bad boy of Boxing"

no argument, marciano na the best. no losses in his career, highest percentage of knockouts. make ona go youtube search for im fights. ali wey person break im jaw

Eastbay:

Tyson brought the sport into disrepute.Biting people's ears(Holyfield) and legs (Lewis) and saying he wants to eat people's children.Even with all the hype about boxing, his actions were a disgrace.That's someone some people want to say is the Greatest.
Ali didn't.Ali had respect for the game and it as evident the way he made it global.He predicted the round he would drop you and backed it up;and after the fight would compose a rhyme about it[b].He was not only good in the ring,he was a showman,not a brooding gorilla like Tyson who couldn't even mumble anything cohesive in front of the press.
If he was so great,why then is he boxing for exhibition?Like a circus act.The guy needs help.Dayokanu,Saroun,rescue your hero![/b]
doyin13,
the topic is about heavyweights,but truth is, there are some great middleweights as well.Hagler,Sugar Ray Leonard.Even Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran.
But even then I think Ali is unrivalled.The funnny thing is when the Heavyweight division became a joke (i.e. when Tyson was on top),the middleweight division was actually the place to be in if you loved boxing

This part just got me rolling in my chair.This comparison of Tyson to the Greatest Ali has gone from absurd to laughable

Pop Quiz
Q:What kind of champion chumpion pays fighters to avoid fighting with them?
A:Mike Tyson

.

He was not only good in the ring,he was a showman,not a brooding gorilla like Tyson who couldn't even mumble anything cohesive in front of the press.
If he was so great,why then is he boxing for exhibition?Like a circus act.The guy needs help

Does being a showman add to your credentials? Then Prince Naseem and David Beckham should be the best in their field.

Maradona and Zidane were never good with the press but they were the best around.

Maradona has never done anything good in the public, he took drugs, He fought the refs and team mates, he was arrogant but he was the best.

Now you are bringing Maradona into the mix.Is Maradona a boxer too? Maradona was even a showman if we really want to be sincere

Dayokanu,
When you know the difference between Michael and Leon Spinks,then we can talk.you can then say anything you want to my posts.
How on earth could you list anyone who brought his sport into disrepute as the greatest?Maradona was a CHEAT.How then could he be the greatest or the best?Maybe Ben Johnson can be listed as an all-time great in athletics too,going by your nonsense logic.
And about Holyfield,he feigned injury when he was scheduled to face Holyfield, and his camp refused to set a new date.He was SCARED of Holyfield.Everybody knows that.
You say he won two belts?Against who?Frank Bruno,a guy Tim Whitherspoon almost killed in '89 in London?Is that a CREDIBLE fighter?You just don't get the  arguement.We're talking about quality of opponents here.Name one credible fighter he beat when he returned.I want an answer when next you get online.
Trying to justify Tyson's biting:you're the fickle one,because two wrongs can't and will not make a right,and you know that.And I don't want any excuses about losing to Douglas either.He was supposed to be ready;that's what he's paid for.He was just overconfident.And he got his lights blown out so bad,he couldn't evenfind his gumshield!
Saroun,when the Samuel Peter hype dies out(as it seems to have),maybe you'll return to the wrestling thread where you rightly belong.
Tyson had a criminal record prior to his rape conviction,so it's more than likely he was guilty,ok?Get that.I don't have anything to say to you anymore.

Dayokanu,
You mentioned Holyfield losing to Moorer, and Lewis lost to Rahman.
But both found a way to come back from those losses.
Tyson lost to idiots and never bothered to avenge those losses.
Ali in his prime (before he retired) lost to Frazier,Norton and Spinks.He beat those guys at least once in re-matches.The only chance Tyson had for redemption saw him biting holyfield.
Tyson is a black stain on boxing.The silliest brute ever to get in between the ropes.He had no love for the sport.And proved it regularly.

To nail this discussion once and for all, I have done the homework that I expected the pro-Tyson supporters to do. I googled this question - Could Ali have beaten Tyson? See, it wasn’t that hard.

I randomly picked these websites from the top ten sites.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/107747
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-28856.html
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-news/samuels3012.php
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081022153316AAf9qEg

www.dailycampus.com/media/storage/paper340/news/2007/09/05/Sports/Could.Mike.Tyson.Beat.Muhammad.Ali-2950997.shtml">http://media.www.dailycampus.com/media/storage/paper340/news/2007/09/05/Sports/Could.Mike.Tyson.Beat.Muhammad.Ali-2950997.shtml

I paticularly loved this comment.

Ali was the greatest heavyweight that ever lived, and that's the end of the discussion. If Ali was to play in the NBA, Mike Tyson would be playing for the Connecticut Sun in the WNBA

Finally, this website did it for me. It said it all.

http://dmboxing.com/WordPress/?p=175


Please thoroughly read and digest the viewpoint of a boxing historian with 48 years experience as well as the viewpoints of 5 boxing experts, notable amongst them was the late great Eddie Futch - arguably regarded as the greatest boxing coach and tactician in boxing history.

First let me say that it is always a pleasure to write what I have seen in my 48 years of following boxing as a sport I deeply love. I have seen every heavyweight champion fight, either by living during his era, by film or by speaking with individuals who actually saw these champions fight, even at the turn of the 20th century. I respect everyone’s opinions and, of course, have mine to tell after having studied this very subject, giving a great degree of research on my part.


In this article, I am adding something very unique. I have polled five top authorities in boxing, all whom are friends of mine, to get their opinions and asked them how Mike Tyson would have fared against Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes, being that these three have been more visible to the average boxing fan of today than past fighters such as Marciano, Louis, Dempsey, Tunney, and Johnson. I also am including a Web site fan entry and a special feature from the late Eddie Futch. So in no particular order, here are their quoted opinions:

Tyson dominated in his prime. When was Holyfields prime? he never had any.

Did you watch Lennox vs holyfield? i blamed myself for watching the 2 bouts. It would have been better to read live commentaries on the internet.

D[color=#770077]ouglas was plain fortunate just the way Hasheem rahman was against Lewis.

Ali was a journalist man The Lips of Louisville they call him Tyson had no time for those press romance.

It was always straight to business and Gbam!!! You are out cold.

Tyson is a bully? Yes Boxing is a brawl sport not for Gays like Holyfield and Lennox who were hugging one another throughout.

I swear they both had erections during the bout. Evander even came twice Allah I saw it!!!!


Guy u de craze. lol
[/color]

@Eastbay,

You are sounding like a broken record. bring out the quote where i said Michael Spinks beat Ali? The way you clutch at straws deflate any

point you might have.

If tyson had not gone to jail would he have avoided holyfield for ever? He feigned injury? He fought Ruddock in June and was arrested in July. So you expect him to fight Ruddock and holyfield as a tag team on the same ring the same day?


Evander to tyson?

Evander fought 53 times and lost 9 winning 2 draws, 27 by Knockout and the rest by decision is that what you call a boxer?

When I told you about the hugging and cuddling on the ring you thought I was joking.

Do you guys know Evander headbutted hashim Rahman into submission He never used Punches but Headbutts!!!!!

Lennox Lewis

Lennox Lewis era was the all time low in boxing How many bouts did he have as champ?

Do you know how Lewis became champ? Lewis was awarded the belt he did not fight because Bowe refused to fight him.

Do you know Lewis avoided fighting John Ruiz? Lewis fight was the only one where i saw people crying on the ring STRANGE!!!!

Did you watch the Lewis Akinwande bout? So much Hugging and cuddling that people got pissed and the bout was canceled in favour of Lewis.

Lewis holyfield was now the worst 2 Heavyweight who did not throw punches in 2 different bouts and the 2 fights were Draws though the 2nd was awarded to Lewis.

He was floored by Rahman and next the ref stopped the fight against Klitshko and awarded it to Lewis even though Klitshko was leading on points from all 3 judges.

When they asked Lewis for a rematch he retired sharply!!! what a COWARD!!! And he pursued a career in Music!!!!!!

Mohammed Ali

Do you know Ali's fought 61 times 37 Knockouts and won 19!!!! bouts on points. Lost 5 .

What sickens me is the amount of Unanimous Decisions Fakers like ALi and Holyfield enjoyed

unlike Tyson who knocks people out in the first few rounds Are those the people Journalists placed above Iron Mike?

Tyson fought 58 times won 50, 44 by knock out most of them in the early rounds no draws and lost 6

Are you still comparing Evander, Lewis, Ali and Iron Mike Tyson?

@eastbay,nextlevel,A40 and other great boxin pundit on nairaland

Me think we shld leave Sauron and Dayo and let em continue to grapple @ 0₂ as i think they are only playing the devil's advocate here.No one in his right boxing senses will mention Ali and Tyson in same breathe.If you are worth ur onions in boxing analysis,u wldnt even dare put Tyson in the top 10 and mix the 2 Spinks.Its becomin rather hilarious now with people mentionin Beckham and Maradona really.

I will place even Davidson Andeh,Obisia Nwakpa and manliness Tiger as better boxer technically compared to Tyson.A boxer whos gat only brawn and no brain is just a berserk pugilist a la agbero in Oshodi and that is a no brainer.

I wonder if dudes have seen the fight between Carmen Castillo and Sugar Ray,Ken Norton and Ali,Foreman and Ali,Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard(in the rematch,Duran was so pummeled he was sayin in spanish "No more",Earnie Shaver and Ali,Mohammed Qawi and Holyfield,these are classics that can only be savored  whilst we pray another great era of boxers come up again.Not an ear biting joke of dollar induced match fixing by the grey hair Don King.It is all show biz now like WWE.How we miss the guile and technicalities invloved in the bouts the fantastic 4 were involved.

Please lets just let Dayo and Sauron continue to be the Ali baba they are now,however  poignant their drivel is.I rest my case on this issue

Dayokanu,
I won't even answer you anymore.You've proved to be an ignorant jackass with no respect for the truth.
Ibime,Next level (who i suspect is a journalist-something you can never be with your one-dimensional thinking and rationalisation:just like your Tyson) and A40 have given you and that bus-conductor analyst (Saroun-always jumping on someone's bandwagon) an assignment,and it appears you haven't done it.Yet you stay here, running your mouth on an issue that we should not even be thinking about,let alone discuss.

When you give me a list of 5 credible boxers your circus clown Tyson has beaten, then we'll talk boxing.
And don't include Spinks and Holmes.Because one term comes straight to mind when i think of those two:WASHED UP!.
You talk of him coming out from prison and winning two belts:he beats a lumbering Frank Bruno and a BruceSeldon:is that anything credible?Are those credible opponents?
And when he beats Bruno,he then vacates the title because he's scared of Lennox Lewis.And that's you're all-time great.


When you give me a classic battle Tyson has had,then we'll talk prize fighting.
One minute fix-its orchestrated by Don King cannot be classic by any stretch of your warped imagination.People pay to see a fight,not a fix,and you may have noticed that when King and Tyson split,his one-minute matches dried up instantly.
You sound like a skipped fuji CD telling us how many times Tyson knocked out his journeymen.
And correction (even though the donkey in you will not take it no matter how big the stick is to hit you with),Tyson'e era in the heavyweight division is at par with the Samuel Peter era:rock-bottom.Lewis had Holyfield,Big-Daddy(Bowe),Oliver McCall.Not the best cast of characters,but by far better than Pinklin Thomas (the guy's name was a loser alone),Carl williams,Tony Tubbs,Lorenzo Boyd,Tyrell Biggs,etc.Even Tyson tried to sneak in to the Lewis era,but got his ass badly shredded by Lewis.I wonder why you refused to mention that part while doing your own analysis.Your guess is as good as mine.

Even though Tyson didnt liveup to expectation, i will still consider him a boxing legend. But to compare him with Ali will be pure madness and an insult to Ali's person.

slimghost:
Nice.At least you're no clown.

Eastbay:

Dayokanu,
I won't even answer you anymore.You've proved to be an ignorant jackass with no respect for the truth.
Ibime,Next level (who i suspect is a journalist-something you can never be with your one-dimensional thinking and rationalisation:just like your Tyson) and A40 have given you and that bus-conductor analyst (Saroun-always jumping on someone's bandwagon) an assignment,and it appears you haven't done it.Yet you stay here, running your mouth on an issue that we should not even be thinking about,let alone discuss.

When you give me a list of 5 credible boxers your circus clown Tyson has beaten, then we'll talk boxing.
And don't include Spinks and Holmes.Because one term comes straight to mind when i think of those two:WASHED UP!.
You talk of him coming out from prison and winning two belts:he beats a lumbering Frank Bruno and a BruceSeldon:is that anything credible?Are those credible opponents?
And when he beats Bruno,he then vacates the title because he's scared of Lennox Lewis.And that's you're all-time great.


When you give me a classic battle Tyson has had,then we'll talk prize fighting.
One minute fix-its orchestrated by Don King cannot be classic by any stretch of your warped imagination.People pay to see a fight,not a fix,and you may have noticed that when King and Tyson split,his one-minute matches dried up instantly.
You sound like a skipped fuji CD telling us how many times Tyson knocked out his journeymen.
And correction (even though the donkey in you will not take it no matter how big the stick is to hit you with),Tyson'e era in the heavyweight division is at par with the Samuel Peter era:rock-bottom.Lewis had Holyfield,Big-Daddy(Bowe),Oliver McCall.Not the best cast of characters,but by far better than Pinklin Thomas (the guy's name was a loser alone),Carl williams,Tony Tubbs,Lorenzo Boyd,Tyrell Biggs,etc.Even Tyson tried to sneak in to the Lewis era,but got his ass badly shredded by Lewis.I wonder why you refused to mention that part while doing your own analysis.Your guess is as good as mine.

That point has given all pro-Tyson peeps a TKO.I am sick and tired of arguing with these beer-parlor boxing analysts since they have refused to tell us why Tyson crumbled when he faced genuine contenders someone that paid Lennox Lewis a cool 4mil not to fight with him is claiming greatness he was a coward at best

Take a look at these stats and compare these two men:
Against top 10 all time fighters, Muhammad Ali is 5-1, with 4 KOs. Against top 10 all timers, Mike Tyson is 0-0. Against top 20 Mike Tyson is 0-3, with 2 KO losses and 1 DQ.

Tyson is a joke and fought with butchers(eleran) What kind of a chumpion gets knocked down 5 times note he didn't lose 5 times he got KO'd five times.Comparing him to The Greatest is utterly laughable

A40,
I think you've killed the argument.Thanks a lot!
I only wish Ibime would just show up and end the story.
Thread's been a little silent,thank heaven.
No more noise,

A-40:

That point has given all pro-Tyson peeps a TKO.I am sick and tired of arguing with these beer-parlor boxing analysts since they have refused to tell us why Tyson crumbled when he faced genuine contenders someone that paid Lennox Lewis a cool 4mil not to fight with him is claiming greatness he was a coward at best

Take a look at these stats and compare these two men:
Against top 10 all time fighters, Muhammad Ali is 5-1, with 4 KOs. Against top 10 all timers, Mike Tyson is 0-0. Against top 20 Mike Tyson is 0-3, with 2 KO losses and 1 DQ.

Tyson is a joke and fought with butchers(eleran) What kind of a chumpion gets knocked down 5 times note he didn't lose 5 times he got KO'd five times.Comparing him to The Greatest is utterly laughable

What do u mean genuine contenders? Tyson didn't wake up one night to find himself as the youngest heavyweight champion in the world. . .
Are u this daft?? The people Tyson smashed were genuine contenders themselves. . . . .
Tyson only made em look ordinary. . . . . .Just because Ali is a coward with the way he takes his fights to round 15 does not mean the people he fought were good. . . . . .Tyson is so excellent in his way that he ends his fight in the 1st round thus making his opponent look like a sissy.

I am done arguing on this issue. . . . .We can never ever AGREE with this so y'all can put Boxcyclopaedia here for all u care.
Eastbay(the slowpoke) keeps foaming in the mouth without really adding any genuine input to the debate.
How can anyone say Tyson is not the greatest? It must be pinkeye or cancer of the lens if u cannot appreciate Tyson's short career.
Iron Mike doesn't get his credits because of his lifestyle just like the media prefer Kaka to Cristiano Ronaldo. . . .

Saorun the jackass strikes again.
You know next to NOTHING about boxing,so just go back to your WWE thread,where you can get thrilled by men acting as babies.
I'm not a boxing guru,but I know more about the sport than you or Dayokanu put together if you ignorant fool gets the chance to live two more lifetimes,but I'm sure the creator (if he agrees to do so) would bring you in the next life time as a donkey,so that someone beats you silly with a stick,because no matter what you come out as,you're still IGNORANT.
At least Dayokanu manages to put a stat here or there.You argue like you're in a beer parlour: adding nothing to this thread whatsoever.
I put stats,facts and figures about fights I have seen.You saw Samuel Peter and decided boxing could be a hobby for you.You've even impressed me by not bringing his name up this thread.
You're talking about contenders:just who were they?You can start by mentioning one name,but I doubt that your bus-conductor approach to issues will not allow you say anything meaningful.
You can go to hell,the fact is that you have just come around to fool yourself on this thread,and we'll appreciate it if you left us alone.

Go and debate about whether wrestling is real or fake.