I will crown the first person that gets the answer as OniCarTalk of CarTalk, Oba Atenimasun I

PS: We are watching you Google cheaters, no googling.

Air, Fuel & Spark/ignition

Air/fuel, compression, ignition (spark)

I almost didnt want to include compression, but no engine will ever run without it. So is the same with the others.

Air/fuel makes it look like the list has gone beyond 3 things but the two are basically inexclusive.

inze: Hike up the prize and you'd see answers all over

Well I don't think Seun would approve OniNairaland of Nairaland

0rex: Air, Fuel & Spark/ignition

So you were close but even with no dedicated air supply the fuel will still burn. We're not talking about a vacuum though so air will still be present.

A heady attempt Sir.

adanny01: Air/fuel, compression, ignition (spark)

You are of course right but I always wonder why the assumption that proper timing is present.

CityNG:

So you were close but even with no dedicated air supply the fuel will still burn. We're not talking about a vacuum though so air will still be present.

A heady attempt Sir.

I dont get the bold cos its a principle of burning for oxygen to be present.

Are you refering to forced induction engines, cos i dont see any other way?

CityNG:

You are of course right but I always wonder why the assumption that proper timing is present.

The engine is complicated that it cannot just be reduced to three important things.

As long as the injection and ignition timing isnt right, compression is out. As the engine tries to run other factors must come in to achieve the aim.

adanny01:

I dont get the bold cos its a principle of burning for oxygen to be present.

Are you refering to forced induction engines, cos i dont see any other way?

Even if forced induction, it still requires oxygen to be present.

Oxygen is always present on earth (except in a vacuum) and this is why we don't walk around in a space suit but we do on the moon.

adanny01:

The engine is complicated that it cannot just be reduced to three important things.

As long as the injection and ignition timing isnt right, compression is out. As the engine tries to run other factors must come in to achieve the aim.

I agree with you but the books and engineers are of a different opinion.

I guess what can ask instead, "what are the three basic things that an engine needs in order to start?"

its simply called GAS..
G: gasoline
A: air
S: spark..

my 2kobo

Hardheolar: its simply called GAS..
G: gasoline
A: air
S: spark..

my 2kobo

Compression nko?

With no compression there won't be enough force to push back against the crankshaft and air (oxygen) exists all around us so doesn't need to be added.

You might want to adjust your 2 kobo for inflation

Its simply called GAS..
G: gasoline
A: air
S: spark..

my 2kobo..

CityNG:

Compression nko?

With no compression there won't be enough force to push back against the crankshaft and air (oxygen) exists all around us so doesn't need to be added.

You might want to adjust your 2 kobo for inflation

well dats wat my lecturer thought me at Automedics....

btw, can dere be power without spark?

CityNG: I will crown the first person that gets the answer as OniCarTalk of CarTalk, Oba Atenimasun I

PS: We are watching you Google cheaters, no googling.

I got the Answer lol
1 Fuel(Igniti0n)
2 Power(Spark)
3 Air(C0mpression)

erico2k2:
I got the Answer lol
1 Fuel(Igniti0n)
2 Power(Spark)
3 Air(C0mpression)

Air is not compression. The piston causes the compression then transmits the resultant energy produced by the combustion for the engine to run.

As CityNG has said, air is a naturally occuring element which will always be present so should be treated as a constant. As a matter of fact an equipment such as a vacuum pump must be used if air isnt needed.

In addition, ignition and spark is synonymous. Power is an end result or output of a running engine so cannot be an input.

Hardheolar: well dats wat my lecturer thought me at Automedics....

btw, can dere (there?) be power without spark?

Of course not, and that is why ignition/spark is part of the correct answer.

adanny01:

Air is not compression. The piston causes the compression then transmits the resultant energy produced by the combustion for the engine to run.

As CityNG has said, air is a naturally occuring element which will always be present so should be treated as a constant. As a matter of fact an equipment such as a vacuum pump must be used if air isnt needed.

In addition, ignition and spark is synonymous. Power is an end result or output of a running engine so cannot be an input.

Ok how does the piston get pushed is it not by rapid conbustion? And there is a mixture of fuel and spark to instigate this and simple physics states for anything to ignite there must be oxygen.and the pry source of oxygen in the Engine is Air?

Gas/Fuel (very important in any engine)
Ignition/SPark(very important in any engine)
Compression(very important in any engine)

Then Oil.

erico2k2:
Ok how does the piston get pushed is it not by rapid conbustion? And there is a mixture of fuel and spark to instigate this and simple physics states for anything to ignite there must be oxygen.and the pry source of oxygen in the Engine is Air?

Correct, the answer is embedded inside your question Sir.

Fire doesn't require pure oxygen to jubilate, just the air in the atmosphere, which contains O2, is enough for it to occur.

Unless displaced by other chemicals (halon as an example) or specifically by vacuum, oxygen occurs naturally in the atmosphere.

erico2k2:
Ok how does the piston get pushed is it not by rapid conbustion? And there is a mixture of fuel and spark to instigate this and simple physics states for anything to ignite there must be oxygen.and the pry source of oxygen in the Engine is Air?

The source of oxygen is natural thats why i may not be counted.

You are right with regards to fuel and spark but the third is compression not air as that is a constant. Compression harnesses the energy produced in the combustion and thats what runs the engine.

adanny01:

The source of oxygen is natural thats why i may not be counted.

You are right with regards to fuel and spark but the third is compression not air as that is a constant. Compression harnesses the energy produced in the combustion and thats what runs the engine.

Oxygen is not necessary natural there are places with nature where there is no oxygen.Lets go back to the Engine, Like I stated earlier, for combustion to take place there must be oxygen o2 or else the chemical process will never take place, The valves controls inlet and outlets which forms part of the drive train controlled by ur ECU.This why you have the O2 Sensors.
Ideally an engine takes in Air (Oxygen and Nitrogen) and fuel (hydrocarbons) and produecs CO2, H2O, and the N2 just passes straight through. The chemical equation is as follows. 2 C8H18 (gas) + 25 O2 = 16 CO2 + 18H2O

erico2k2:
Oxygen is not necessary natural there are places with nature where there is no oxygen .Lets go back to the Engine, Like I stated earlier, for combustion to take place there must be oxygen o2 or else the chemical process will never take place, The valves controls inlet and outlets which forms part of the drive train controlled by ur ECU.This why you have the O2 Sensors.
Ideally an engine takes in Air (Oxygen and Nitrogen) and fuel (hydrocarbons) and produecs CO2, H2O, and the N2 just passes straight through. The chemical equation is as follows. 2 C8H18 (gas) + 25 O2 = 16 CO2 + 18H2O

We dont need to go into chemistry before we explain what oxygen is to combustion. I have done that years ago in my secondary school days. This is not an argument on the role of oxygen in combustion.

You need to understand the question before you can give a correct answer.

Air is a naturally occuring element that contains oxygen. The engine by default sucks in fuel with air. The fuel is an introduced element in the engine, so is the spark but oxygen finds its way there from natural sources.

You said there are places where there is no oxygen, where is that if i may ask? Cos even aeroplanes that fly at 4000ft above the ground use the naturally occuring oxygen available in the air to run its jet engines. There is no where on the earths atmosphere where the is no oxygen. The only difference is that the amount of oxygen in the air varies with altitude so aeroplanes rely on air compressors to increase the amount of oxygen delivery to the engines.

To get a perfect running engine, the air, fuel and spark must be control and timed. But air gets to the combustion chamber from natural sources and without inducement of anykind to run the engine.

To answer the question of the 3 things necessary to run an engine, the best ans is fuel, spark and compression. When the engine starts running you will need others like controled timing, lubrication, cooling etc

adanny01:

We dont need to go into chemistry before we explain what oxygen is to combustion. I have done that years ago in my secondary school days. This is not an argument on the role of oxygen in combustion.

You need to understand the question before you can give a correct answer.

Air is a naturally occuring element that contains oxygen. The engine by default sucks in fuel with air. The fuel is an introduced element in the engine, so is the spark but oxygen finds its way there from natural sources.

You said there are places where there is no oxygen, where is that if i may ask? Cos even aeroplanes that fly at 4000ft above the ground use the naturally occuring oxygen available in the air to run its jet engines. There is no where on the earths atmosphere where the is no oxygen. The only difference is that the amount of oxygen in the air varies with altitude so aeroplanes rely on air compressors to increase the amount of oxygen delivery to the engines.

To get a perfect running engine, the air, fuel and spark must be control and timed. But air gets to the combustion chamber from natural sources and without inducement of anykind to run the engine.

To answer the question of the 3 things necessary to run an engine, the best ans is fuel, spark and compression. When the engine starts running you will need others like controled timing, lubrication, cooling etc

Im at work now cant go indept with my mobile phone will get bck to U

erico2k2:
Im at work now cant go indept with my mobile phone will get bck to U

Ok

Before then, i want to give you a relevant analogy.

If asked, what are the ingredients required to cook egusi soup?

Your answer would be like:
Egusi
Meat
Fish
Crayfish
Seasoning cubes
Salt
Onions
Pepper
Palm oil
Pumpkin leaf (ogu)

The list is complete even though there are other ingredients other people will use to make their desired taste such as tomatoes, kpomo etc. Basically, the list is complete.

Of cource water, is needed to cook every food, it does not appear on the list of the ingredients because it is a common constant for every cooking.

I hope you get my point now.

adanny01:

Ok

Before then, i want to give you a relevant analogy.

If asked, what are the ingredients required to cook egusi soup?

Your answer would be like:
Egusi
Meat
Fish
Crayfish
Seasoning cubes
Salt
Onions
Pepper
Palm oil
Pumpkin leaf (ogu)

The list is complete even though there are other ingredients other people will use to make their desired taste such as tomatoes, kpomo etc. Basically, the list is complete.

Of cource water, is needed to cook every food, it does not appear on the list of the ingredients because it is a common constant for every cooking.

I hope you get my point now.

lol I like your xplanation on the cooking but let me just say, U dnt need water to cook every food, If my Dinner is fish and Chips, that leaves water out as you can see clearly lol

adanny01:

We dont need to go into chemistry before we explain what oxygen is to combustion. I have done that years ago in my secondary school days. This is not an argument on the role of oxygen in combustion.

You need to understand the question before you can give a correct answer.

Air is a naturally occuring element that contains oxygen. The engine by default sucks in fuel with air. The fuel is an introduced element in the engine, so is the spark but oxygen finds its way there from natural sources.

You said there are places where there is no oxygen, where is that if i may ask? Cos even aeroplanes that fly at 4000ft above the ground use the naturally occuring oxygen available in the air to run its jet engines. There is no where on the earths atmosphere where the is no oxygen. The only difference is that the amount of oxygen in the air varies with altitude so aeroplanes rely on air compressors to increase the amount of oxygen delivery to the engines.

To get a perfect running engine, the air, fuel and spark must be control and timed. But air gets to the combustion chamber from natural sources and without inducement of anykind to run the engine.

To answer the question of the 3 things necessary to run an engine, the best ans is fuel, spark and compression. When the engine starts running you will need others like controled timing, lubrication, cooling etc

As for places without Oxygen try the atmosphere, scientist are arguing about the presence of oxygen in the Moon and mars till date.You said Air gets into the Combustion Chamber from natural source without inducement of any kind, so if that's the case how does it get controlled to give the right amount?don't forget the Air in question is 21%oxygen(This is what the Engine uses) and 78%Nitrogen the Engine don't need and passes through.These Jagons I just wrote up there are contained i n the Combustion Equation hence I stated it up there.Thats what chemically goes on in the Engine, the bit b4 the= sign is the Engine the bit after is the exhaust or end product that goes to the Cat converter.

erico2k2:
lol I like your xplanation on the cooking but let me just say, U dnt need water to cook every food, If my Dinner is fish and Chips, that leaves water out as you can see clearly lol

Chips is fried not cooked. You could fry the fish too.

If it is boiled fish, you need water and thats cooking.

So in relation, the engine needs oxygen, thats for sure its available already as a constant so what do you really need. Fuel, ignition and compression.

erico2k2:
As for places without Oxygen try the atmosphere, scientist are arguing about the presence of oxygen in the Moon and mars till date.You said Air gets into the Combustion Chamber from natural source without inducement of any kind, so if that's the case how does it get controlled to give the right amount?don't forget the Air in question is 21%oxygen(This is what the Engine uses) and 78%Nitrogen the Engine don't need and passes through.These Jagons I just wrote up there are contained i n the Combustion Equation hence I stated it up there.Thats what chemically goes on in the Engine, the bit b4 the= sign is the Engine the bit after is the exhaust or end product that goes to the Cat converter.

Am sure you dont have an intention to use your engine in Mars or the moon. Engines that we have been designing are for use on earth with few that are used on space shuttles foe that purpose. You just challenged me to research on the space shuttles and the engines.

The earths atmosphere starts from sea level up to 100km altitude and this contains mainly Nitrogen then oxygen et al as you said. Air is measured by Atmospheric pressure and this decreases with higher altitude. At high altitudes a human may suffer altitude sickness or faint not because oxygen is deminished in the air but because the atmospheric pressure at which the lungs is made to work is now too low. On the flip side, breathing below the sea level is very difficult because the pressure at that level is very high and goes even higher if you go further below. Its not lack of oxygen but either high or low atmospheric pressure. Same reason why aeroplane cabins are pressurized.

Now, to achieve compression, the combustion chamber has to be air tight and open up to let in air and fuel. These types of engines draw in air by the simple act of downward movement of the piston hence the name 'Naturally aspirated'. Other types of performance engines employ induced aspiration with the turbo chargers and the superchargers. We should be limiting ourselves on this thread to an ordinary engine which gets its oxygen source from nowhere but the atmosphere just like you breath since you dont buy it or store it. Even the engines that get induced get oxygen free and in abundance. The question even says 'things you need', am sure you have oxygen already so you dont need what you already have. What you need is fuel, ignition and compression.

Lastly, control of air (butterfly valve) is necessary, same as the control of fuel (injectors using oxygen sensors and ecu), ignition timing (using coil packs and ecu) and even 'compression timing' which is relative to the valve timing, piston rings optimization with names that you hear like twin cam, iVTEC, VVTi etc. All these things need to be controlled cos they are required to work and rely on each together. If nothing is controlled then the engine might turn out to be a bomb!

adanny01:

Chips is fried not cooked. You could fry the fish too.

If it is boiled fish, you need water and thats cooking.

So in relation, the engine needs oxygen, thats for sure its available already as a constant so what do you really need. Fuel, ignition and compression.

Seriously Im DWL,, wether you Boil,roast,fry,steam,Grill,cure the fish its all kinda cooking BOSS lol,I only said what I said cos of the water element frying is a kind of coking, so is Boiling and grilling etc kia lol

adanny01:

Am sure you dont have an intention to use your engine in Mars or the moon. Engines that we have been designing are for use on earth with few that are used on space shuttles foe that purpose. You just challenged me to research on the space shuttles and the engines.

The earths atmosphere starts from sea level up to 100km altitude and this contains mainly Nitrogen then oxygen et al as you said. Air is measured by Atmospheric pressure and this decreases with higher altitude. At high altitudes a human may suffer altitude sickness or faint not because oxygen is deminished in the air but because the atmospheric pressure at which the lungs is made to work is now too low. On the flip side, breathing below the sea level is very difficult because the pressure at that level is very high and goes even higher if you go further below. Its not lack of oxygen but either high or low atmospheric pressure. Same reason why aeroplane cabins are pressurized.

Now, to achieve compression, the combustion chamber has to be air tight and open up to let in air and fuel. These types of engines draw in air by the simple act of downward movement of the piston hence the name 'Naturally aspirated'. Other types of performance engines employ induced aspiration with the turbo chargers and the superchargers. We should be limiting ourselves on this thread to an ordinary engine which gets its oxygen source from nowhere but the atmosphere just like you breath since you dont buy it or store it. Even the engines that get induced get oxygen free and in abundance. The question even says 'things you need', am sure you have oxygen already so you dont need what you already have. What you need is fuel, ignition and compression.

Lastly, control of air (butterfly valve) is necessary, same as the control of fuel (injectors using oxygen sensors and ecu), ignition timing (using coil packs and ecu) and even 'compression timing' which is relative to the valve timing, piston rings optimization with names that you hear like twin cam, iVTEC, VVTi etc. All these things need to be controlled cos they are required to work and rely on each together. If nothing is controlled then the engine might turn out to be a bomb!

I Understood all you are saying, check what you wrote as factors needed,how many or which of them is physical and mechanical?Im trying to narrow the argument