sorry,

did u say david beckam is better than camoronesi,

in what way? and how?

please expantiate

David Beckham is a rare gem.
He is a very good winger and his crosses and ball delivery is top draw.
Beckham is also a dead-ball specialist and u need to go back to his Man Utd days to see what i am saying.
U might argue he is not as good like he used to but one cannot overlook his contributions back in 'em days.
Any Beckham's cross to Andy Cole/Dwight Yorke is a goal. Its as sure as the rising of the sun in the east.

Camaronesi on the other hand is just a bully in the park.
He does not cross but simply keeps the ball and make short passes.
Camaronesi's ball delivery is nuthing to write home about and he only features in teams because of his toughness and hhe tackles hard.
He doesn't really contribute positively to the team's mentality.
An average player by all standards.

@jackal

hear your self,

Jackal:

David Beckham is a rare gem.
He is a very good winger and his crosses and ball delivery is top draw.

agreed, to me his crosses are the best in world, true,

Jackal:

Beckham is also a dead-ball specialist

that is also true

Jackal:

and u need to go back to his Man Utd days to see what i am saying.

now thats the problem, back to his manutd days, not now anymore, he's still got the crosses. though
he's not as dependable as before,

Jackal:

U might argue he is not as good like he used to but one cannot overlook his contributions back in 'em days.

back in 'em days again, history, is yesterday, the future is wat we need.

Jackal:

Any Beckham's cross to Andy Cole/Dwight Yorke is a goal. Its as sure as the rising of the sun in the east.

that was then,

@ lordimpaq,

Of course that was then.
At least, i can say stuffs about Beckham's past and present.
Tell me one remarkable thing Camaronesi has done in the past?

jack, u don't have to rely on past glory,

the past is history, that's wat i'm tryin to point out,

some players had to get old before they reached their peak,

maybe camoronesi is just about peaking, and pirlo too,

so,

It aint about past glory.
My point is, David Beckham is a world class player and Camaronesi is not.

talking about dead ball specialists juninho is still the best not beckham. his success rate is far better than any of his peers currently playing. beckham gives good crosses huh? I agree but in his hey day too figo gave the best crosses too, or will you deny that jackal? (not forgetting figo won player of the year)
england is hype, simply put. cannavaro and nesta are the best CB's anywhere, terry and rio are decent, but trust me neither of them will displace ayala or lucio from argentina or brazil, nor puyol from spain so quit the hype.

@debosky

puyol is very vulnerable,

@deboksy,
Juninho is the best free-kick taker these days but i believe Juninho is nowhere near David Beckham in his days.
Beckham bends free-kick and it was a delight to watch in his United days.
The best of Beckham is better than the best of Juninho. Agreed?

Cannavaro/Nesta will not displace Rio/Terry in England as well so its 50-50.
Did u see how Rio n Terry locked down the English defence against Portugal?
11 men against 10 and England held out for 120 mins.

dude england held out against a portuguese team playing a lone striker - pauleta for all the game so its a big deal for terry and rio to hold just pauleta?? gime a break. in free kicks NO i don't think bekham was better, but due to the EPL HYPE and popularity compared to ligue 1, it would appear so if you don't examine closely.

puyol is vulnerable? so is rio, far more even, i still remember how he was disgraced by yakubu and mendieta last season, they made him look like the overpaid yahoo he is. even mr terry, he looked like a schoolboy who was scared of playing on the big stage for most of the WC, amking silly erros all over.

do u know that, beckam was never better than sinisa mihaljlovic in freekicks in his time,

has beckam ever scored a hatrick from setpieces,

mihajlovic has,

a free kick and two corners,

so wats the fish about beckam,

the fish about beckham

a hansome blond haired british boy

above average talent, scored a few free kicks

married a pop singer

very popular in asia = revenues from shirt sales. endorsements etc

thats about it. exceptional? its just like the case of the town of blind men - the one eyed man will always be the king

@debosky

i don't think jackal would like the sound of that,

but come to think of it its true except the one eyed guy being the king, dats bollocks,

it isnt oh, 4 real if everyone around you is mediocre and you're above average then you're the king in that locale

just like the old man in a village having an old radio, cuzz no one else has one in d villa, he's the most popular

same thing with beckham, if he was born brazillian, heck he wd be as popular as juninho now, no more.

@debosky

so wat r u tryin to say, that everyone around beckam was mediocre, thats bullshiit,

beckam was just one player who could cross and score freekicks that was all, wat made him better than paolo di canio of westham then,

or david ginola of tottenham or even youseff chippo and hadji of coventry of that time, those guys were skillful,

and when i mean skillful i mean skillfull, beckham wasn't skillful, he never was,

Ohhhh Ma Days.
These guys are cracking me up.
So u think a freak is a better player because he scored hatrick through set pieces?
Let us look at the situations where Beckham has scored free-kicks for his team.

Can any of y'all remember England Vs Greece at Old Trafford?
How David Beckham's last minute free-kick earned England a deserved draw?

What about his freak free-kick against Real Madrid at the 2002/03 Champions League.
Beckham came in from the sub bench and United was losing 2-3 to the Spaniards and the ball just sailed into the net.
Iker Cassilas didnt move a muscle let alone attempting to save the ball.
I can go on and on but lemme stop here.
David Beckham is a world class player. English hype or not.
Afterall, he is not the only English player around.

Is there any defender in the world that hasn't been outplayed or outsmarted before? Hell Nahhhhh
I remember Ronaldinho making a meal outta Nesta. Thierry Henry also made a mincemeat outta Cannavaro and so on and forth.
Even legends like Franco Baresi and Maldini has been outwitted and outfought before by smart strikers.
Lets not base how good these defenders are on Yakubu or Mendieta.

lordi don't misunderstand me, compared to beckham most if not all english players are mediocre, i wasn't comparing him to those greatplayers who decided to grace the premiership.


jackal you said it again he scored for england (the team of mediocres carried by an above average player)

after scoring against casillas did man u win? go look at the goal raul scored that day, it is still one of the best ever goals in the CL.

dude if cannavaro is messed up by dinho and henry, he won;t feel bad, They Are world class. but a supposedly 'world class' rio being messed up by has been mendieta and a young buck like yak? thats a disgrace.

@debosky.

Man Utd won the match at OT but did not qualify because of goals difference.
Beckham scored the equaliser and the winning goal at OT to make the scores 4-3.

Can u tell me any world class defender Yaks didn't disgrace last season.
The same Yak made Terry look like a school boy defender when Boro hammered Chelsea 3-0.

Yakubu was also on song when he ran chaos at the Gunners defence and he did the same thing to Ferdinand as well.
Mendieta is a world class player unless u started watching Champions League after Roman took over Chelsea.

Mendieta was the ace at Valencia when Hector Cuper was calling the shotz at the Spanish side.
He steered Valencia to 2 consecutive UEFA finals and that was no fluke.

Jackal:

Mendieta was the ace at Valencia when Hector Cuper was calling the shotz at the Spanish side.
He steered Valencia to 2 consecutive UEFA finals and that was no fluke.

dude read my posts carefully i called mendieta a has been, which is what he has become since moving to 'borough.

by that time they had already lost the match due to raul + ronaldo's brilliance, there was NO WAY they cd win, thats why madrid allowed them to score.


look the only 'world class' defenders you have named are the english above averages - rio and terry. did he score against sevilla? how many goals did he score in the UEFA cup? he took ferdinand apart, ok? even if i was rio's mum i wdve been ashamed that day.

arsenal has NO world class defender, unless you count senderos as one, so yak disgracing them is not a big deal to me.

your terry and rio are not world class, accept it,t hey are above average i'll give them that, but no more.

i guess it was no fluke that he lost both finals tooo,

that was the end of mendieta, mendieta's best days were at valencia,

@deboksy,
I can't believe ur comments.
Arsenal has no word-class defender? Thats fallacy.
What about KOLO TOURE?
He is arguably the most consistent defender in the Premiership the last 3 seasons.
C'mon, if this guy was British he wld have made Pele's 125 best footballers in the world.
KOLO TOURE features in all Premiership games bar suspension. I am yet to see him stretchered out of the pitch.
The lad is a donkey.

unlike you i don't give every player who is above average and improving the title 'world class', even if he plays for my team that term is reserved for the BEST. Toure is very good and fast improving, no doubt, but he is not world class yet, if he keeps up these performances for another 2 seasons, then maybe i'll consider.

Jackal:

He is arguably the most consistent defender in the Premiership the last 3 seasons.
C'mon, if this guy was British he would have made Pele's 125 best footballers in the world.

yeah thank God he isnt british, if not hype wdve started killing his career.

so he's more consistent than your 'world class' rio and terry?

from gunner's point of view,

he is,

@deboksy,
Of course, Kolo Toure is more consistent than Rio and Terry.
He has been able to reach a certain high-level of performance constantly for 3 seasons or so.

Mind u, consistency does not mean he is better than Rio/Terry overall.
A guy that scores Cs in all the 9 subjects he took at GCE O'level is very consistent but he is not better than the student that has 4As, 4Cs and 1F.

@jackal

that is complete bollocks,

how can u say that,

that is the most incorrect situation ever, i would rather say Bs than Cs, u know he's better than a C,

at this rate you will fail that verbal reasoning test.

since toure is more consistent that your 'world class' rio and terry, abeg lordi lets create a new category then, 'super world class' Toure

@Jackal

Nesta and Cannavaro are the best defensive pairing in the world for many years running now. I dont know what u are talking by mentioning Rio and Terry. Those two are good defenders but come on?

I gave u a wing 4 wing analysis and u could only argue one, and even that one people disagree with u. Non of those English players will get into the Italian National side. People like Lampard, Joe Cole, Carrick, Walcot, Crouch, Carragher, Jenas, Downing,Owen, Bridge and a few other hopelessly hyped mediocares WILL NOT make the first 23.

The rest including the Terrys and Ferdinands, Beckhams and the rest WILL SIT out on the bench.

The only ones that may have a chance of beign in the First eleven is Gerrard and maybe Ashley Cole and its only a Maybe.

Which of them either can get into the Brazilian and Argentine national teams?

Besides talking about world defenders there are a lot of them in ahead of Rio and Terry in the pecking order

Nesta, Cannavaro, Lucio, Ayala, Thuram and Puyol are all examples of a world class defenders (though i might be tempted to add Rio) Il even pick Cris ahead of those English duo

@Lordi,
Dont take this personal.
I wasnt refering to Kolo Toure. I was only trying to tell debosky that consistency doesn't make player A better than B.
The optimum performance is the key.

A student that gets 10% every time is consistent with his failures.
Its so amazing that when we see consistent as a word, we are quick to think its always attached to something positive but its not so.
For example, David James is consistent,
Why? His errors never cease.


@sage,
U r entitled to ur own opinions.
I know Rooney,Terry, Ferdinand, Beckham and Gerrard will play for any national team in the world.
Ashley Cole will struggle to make the bench but the 5 lads mentioned above are world class players that have proven their mettle times without number.

james is not consistent with errors,

james is inconsistent when he doesnt maintain a standard,

james was on when chelsea played man city two seasons ago, he made a world class save against lampard,

who would have thot james would have caught that,

Jackal:

He is arguably the most consistent defender in the Premiership the last 3 seasons.
C'mon, if this guy was British he would have made Pele's 125 best footballers in the world.

Obviously you used the word consistency in a positive sense. if not why would he be named as one of the best players?

since neither rio nor terry made the top 125, as you claim toure would, then i must continue calling my Kolo Toure 'Super World Class'

Start appreciating him cos i admire his work-rate.
Kolo Toure never gives up.
Do u know he has got goal-keeping skills as well?

I appreciate him no doubt, i'm just a bit circumspect when applying superlatives like 'world class' when describing players