@ elbaron
I can very well imagine that. When those hard core literalist believers cross your path and you confront them with the internal contradictions in the Bible as well as with the contradictions with established scientific knowledge, all you hear is na na na na, I don't want to listen to you because you don't believe.
Either that, or they simply ignore your points/questions. My answer to that usually is how weak their belief really must be if it cannot stand any critical scrutiny.

goodguy:

@Elbaron, Do you believe in God?

Why is this relevant, goodguy?

@nferyn, I have my reasons. Let him answer first.

@elbaron and nferyn, u're getting it all wrong. Nferyn said that the word seems nonsensical to him and I simply pointed out that the reason is because he doesn't believe. I really don't think my post should raised any cause for alarm here.

Is just all bullshit to me, ans that's a fact.

I totally agree with nferyn

Nferny is somehow right. While very spiritual thing cannot be explained with logic as obtainable today, most should be clear in expalnation. So, who are the mommons

@Goodguy, to answer your question, I do not believe in god, any god for that matter. And like Nferyn asked you, what is the relevance of that?

The think I don't like is that people base their life on one AND ONLY ONE musty old book. You can call it whatever you like, Bible, Qoran, Book of Mormon, Origin of Species, Special Relativity, Marx, Tolstoy etc. When one does that he gets pretty limited himself. Everthing is not just one book. There lots to learn, that's what education teaches right, or am I wrong?

You are right. but how did Dogma rule the world and how will you explain dogma?

Dogman? Know nothing about Dogman

I mean Dogma, an authoritative and precisely formulated statement of a religious doctrine that is advanced, not for discussion, but for belief. In its strict sense, the term seems to be peculiar to Christianity. To qualify as a dogma, the formula must fulfill two conditions: It must be derivable from revelation, as attested by Scripture and tradition; and it must be promulgated by some widely recognized ecclesiastical authority. Dogmas have usually been formulated at times of doctrinal controversy, in order to clarify the orthodox teaching in the face of heretical aberrations. Some dogmas formulated by ecumenical councils in the early centuries of the church still command the assent of the great majority of Christians in both the East and the West. Such, for example, is the definition of the person of Christ by the Council of Chalcedon in 451 . Other dogmas come from later times and are binding only within the Roman Catholic church. Such are the Marian dogmas of the immaculate conception (1859) and the assumption (1950) and the dogma of papal infallibility (1870).

Even the most revered dogmas are, like all doctrinal statements, affected by cultural relativism and thus from time to time must be rethought and restated. Terms such as substance, nature, and person, used by the Council of Chalcedon, reflect a philosophical framework that is now obsolete. Nonetheless, the governing intentions of the ancient dogmas still serve as norms for theological discussion.

Let us all come back to the topic with the comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity

Is Mormonism Christian? This may seem like a puzzling question to many Mormons as well as to some Christians. Mormons will note that they include the Bible among the four books which they recognize as Scripture, and that belief in Jesus Christ is central to their faith, as evidenced by their official name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, many Christians have heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing Christian hymns and are favorably impressed with the Mormon commitment to high moral standards and strong families. Doesn’t it follow that Mormonism is Christian?
http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html

Dogma. Ok I understand now. Personally I am bit sceptical if one pushes dogma too much. You can get into fundamentalism very easy. Depends on the preacher I suppose.

In mormorism they have some concept to which one must adhere to, which in my opinion is a bit limited. I call it a philosophy rather than a religion as such.

ok still relying on my ref.
IS THERE MORE THAN ONE TRUE GOD?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that there is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6,8; 45:21,22; 46:9; Mark 12:29-34).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom .
It also teaches that those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p. 302).

the Mormon Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22

the Mormon Church teaches that God himself has a father, and a grandfather, ad infinitum (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373; Mormon Doctrine, p. 577).

Maybe, but it is not going to change much in the world is it? Better create a longer lasting light bulb or cure some disease in my opinion.

Being Gods.. I don't know about that. Surely I am not a God considering all the Bleep ups I do at work.

Again about the bible ...
IS THE BIBLE THE UNIQUE AND FINAL WORD OF GOD?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many "plain and precious parts" and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon — 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).



Yes where are we.

Neither of them is actually right

chrisd:

Neither of them is actually right

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH


RESPONSE TO A 'DUBIUM'
on the validity of baptism conferred by
«The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints»,
called «Mormons»



Question: Wheter the baptism conferred by the community «The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints», called «Mormons» in the vernacular, is valid.

Response: Negative.

The Supreme Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved the present Response, decided in the Sessione Ordinaria of this Congregation, and ordered it published.

From the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 5 June 2001.


+ Joseph Cardinal RATZINGER

Prefect


  + Tarcisio BERTONE, S.D.B.
Archbishop emeritus of Vercelli
Secretary

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/
documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni_en.html

As United Methodists we agree with their assessment that the LDS Church is not a part of the historic, apostolic tradition of the Christian faith."


We also petition the 2000 General Conference to authorize the General Board of Discipleship to provide resources in accordance with the Sacramental Faithfulness: Guidelines for Receiving People From the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon), to the Church to guide pastors and congregations to receive former Latter-day Saints (Mormons) who seek to become United Methodists in ways that are faithful to our United Methodist heritage

http://www.gc2000.org/pets/cal/TEXT/c0806.asp
   
Mormons
  Q. Are Mormons generally regarded as Christians, and how do their beliefs differ from those of the Missouri Synod?

A. The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, together with the vast majority of Christian denominations in the United States, does not regard the Mormon church as a Christian church. That is because the official writings of Mormonism deny fundamental teachings of orthodox Christianity. For example, the Nicene Creed confesses the clear biblical truth that Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is "of one substance with the Father." This central article of the Christian faith is expressly rejected by Mormon teaching -- thus undermining the very heart of the scriptural Gospel itself. In a chapter titled "Jesus Christ, the Son of God: Are Mormons Christian?" the president of Brigham Young University (Rex Lee, What Do Mormons Believe? [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992] summarizes Mormon teaching by stating that the three persons of the Trinity are "not... one being" (21), but are "separate individuals." In addition, the Father is regarded as having a body "of flesh and bone" (22). Such teaching is contrary to the Holy Scriptures, destructive to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and indicative of the fact that Mormon teaching is not Christian.

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2239[color=#990000][/color]


http://www.pcusa.org/pcusa/wmd/eir/mormon.htm

http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/BB_Mormons.pdf

what shall we do if they are all wrong?

MY BASIC CHRISTIAN BELIEFS

1* God loves us and would like for us to live eternally with Him in glory.
2* Because of our sin (= willful rebellion), we are separated from God.
3* We cannot overcome sin by our own efforts.
4* Because God loves us, He came to earth in human form (as Jesus) and died on the cross to take the penalty for our sins.
5* Because Christ has died for us, salvation (= forgiveness of sin and reconciliation to God) is available as a free gift to anyone who is willing to receive it.
6* We receive salvation by making a life-changing commitment to Christ, not merely by accepting doctrines or joining an organization.

So in the end does not change much if they both are wrong, or if they create another dogma.

I wish we could seek for the truth. That alone will set us free from all these dogmatic  things.
Again read this


Official Name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS)
Founder: Joseph Smith Jr., on April 6, 1830
Current Leader: Gordon B. Hinckley (b. 1910)
Headquarters: Salt Lake City, Utah
Membership (2000): Worldwide: 11 million in 25,915 wards and branches in 162 countries; United States: 5.1 million in
all 50 states and D.C.; Canada: 156,575.
Missionaries (2000): 60,784
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was
founded by Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844). Smith claimed
to have had a visitation from God in 1820 in which God
directed him to establish the true church. Consequently,
he organized the Mormon Church on April 6, 1830, with
six original members. Beginning with a few hundred followers,
the church moved to Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois
before Smith’s death at the hands of a mob at the
Carthage, Ill., jail. Smith had been arrested for encouraging
the destruction of the Expositor, a Nauvoo, Ill., newspaper.
After Smith’s death, Brigham Young was affirmed
as president of the church by a majority of the church’s
leaders and led his followers to Utah where they
established Salt Lake City in 1847. Joseph Smith’s
widow, Emma, resided in Illinois. Those who affirmed
her son, Joseph Smith III, as the true successor of his
father and as prophet of the church in the 1850s helped
found the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints, now headquartered in Independence, Mo.

The issue of religion now make me seek for the truth. Who owns the truth?

The truth is beyond us. The most interesting experiment in physics is the interference of single electrons in a Young's double slit, and its ability to change thinking and behaviour. You'll never think the same way about light. It can be proven scientifically (Quantum Mechanics) that everything comes from nothing. So no people can argue the statement is false.

Mormon Church Racialism

It’s sad how the Mormons who were founded by a man named Joseph Fielding Smith (1805-1844 AD), and now refer to themselves as The Church of Latter Day Saints, have actually succeeded in deceiving many Africans (Moors)(Negroes) into joining their congregation without telling them the root and seed of racism in their doctrine. According to them, the only black person in Mormon Heaven is the faithful servant of Joseph Smith – Abel Burns; and Moors can become Mormons, but not priests and neither can they enter Mormon Heaven, how racist. As a matter of fact, when Mr. Abel’s nephew – Eugene Burns passed on, a Mormon patriarch, even repeated the Mormon belief, that he, being a Moor will not be able to enter Mormon Heaven. This racist thinking is not found anywhere in any of the ancient tablets. Not withstanding, Africans (Moors)are ignorant as to how they ever came up with the curse of Ham being black people. In light of what the bible says about the curse of Canaan, describing white spots in the skin (Leviticus 13:38) which the Jehovah’s Witness claim in their books, and I quote from them, page 407 of Did Man Get Here By Creation Or Evolution?, “Black race from Cush, not due to curse of Canaan, whose descendants were white.”

Source: http://factology.com/20030308.htm

Interesting thread I must say. I too have had my contacts with the Mormans. I have read but not entirely the book of Mormons. They believe that the American Indians are descendants of Abraham. It is believed that Christ appeared to the Indians after His resurrection.

They have some really weird doctrines however. They teach, although I am not sure if they still do, that there is a higher god than the one we serve. They teach that one day we will become as God, and that God was once a man who evolved into the present god.

Apart from that I admire their missionary zeal. I have never really chased them away as such, but I have taken the opportunity to ask them questions and to find out what they believe. The same approach I have had with the Witnesses.

On the question of judging. Don't confuse the meaning of the word judge. It carries two meaning in scriptures. When Jesus says "judge not lest ye be judged" He is saying don't right off anyone or condemn them.

The other meaning has to do with making the correct decisions. In other words we must judge righteously according to Jesus.

Proverbs 31:9 says, Open your mouth, judge righteously, And plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Jesus says, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

So there you have it. Our judgments must be fair and should be based on facts.

My Opinion/Views.




I Strongly Believe that Jesus Christ is the Resurrection and the Life. His Resurrection from the dead is a demonstration of the reawakening and resurrection that awaits all who acknowlwdge Him as their personal lord and saviour. It is recorded in the book of Corinthians that 0ver 500 people witnessed that event.

1 Corinthians 15:1-10

1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5. And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6. After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.



My only grouse is this:

The way we Christains spend time dwelling over trivial issues like, "The Bible is Made Up of only 66 Books and any other addition is Wrong". "If u take out or add it shall be taken out from your portion of life, etc"

"The Protestant Christian Bible contains 66 books, from Genesis to Revelation. The Catholic Christian Bible contains the same 66 books and an extra 7 books. Those extra 7 books are mostly historical accounts of events that took place before the time of Jesus."

Etc Etc, of what use is all these arguments? Before these "Chosen" texts were compiled, they existed as independent books. Some "Council" after deliberations combined them based on the available texts and "Inspired Views"

The Council of Laodicea, in 360, produced a list of books of the Old Testament similar to today's canon. This was one of the Church's earliest decisions on a Canon.
Pope Damasus I in the Council of Rome, in 382, gave us the complete list of the books of the Bible, including the New Testament, and the same Bible was confirmed by Pope Paul III at the Ecumenical Council of Trent (1545).

There are another 35 good books, dealing with themes of the Old and New Testament, and attributed to Enoch, Moses, Salomon, St. Paul, St. Thomas, St. James, St. Peter, Virgin Mary, and they are not in the Bible, because the Church says so!. Deutero-canonical and Apocrypha Books


Fancy that?

Revelation ends with these verses:

" For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."

The very part of the bible where this was quoted, ie the Book of Revelation: Refers only to that book, John was saying if you add or take out of the book(Originally known as the Apocalypse), "this is what waits You"


The Fact remains also that there were Other Accounts of the Life of Christ written by other Disciples and Apostles

The early church pooled out some books which they considered "Most Explicit" to potray the accounts of Our Creator and the Ministry of Christ while He was on earth. Why do we kill ourselves over this? The Vatican has a large collection of manuscripts by various converts, disciples, apostles and believers narrating their own experiences and accounts of the ministry.

Some where considered too exagerated or vague. But the point is this: Have two people ever narrated a Movie exactly the same.?

Ask a small class of say 30 to write an essay of their experiences in the same class for the last 2 weeks and see if two people have the exact narration.

Lets not dwell too much on the number of books but on the Messsage of these Books.



The Message is This: "Jesus Christ Is Resurrected and He Sitteth @ the Right Hand Of God. He Is The Resurrection and the Life. He Shall Come again to Judge the Living and the Dead and His Kingdom Shall HAve No End.

This Is The Foundation, the Bedrock of Our Christian Faith.

These are My Views And This Is Nairaland. Share Yours. We Are Learning.

I heard a lot about the mormons and all I heard was negative. So I decided to investigate. I got a copy of the book of mormon and read it in a bid to find the necessary faults to discredit them. Reading that book changed my life. I have learnt one big lesson - the way to salvation is narrow and not broad, only a few find it, (Old testament - Isrealites, New Testament - Saints & Apostles), I have often wondered why popular opinion in relation to the truth was always wrong.
1. Before the 1800, popular opinion taught that the earth was flat
2. Before 2000, it was accepted as truth that there were 9 planets in the solar system.
I am always careful listening to people talk about religious matters, because if you want to find out the truth, the way is to ask God and you will get your answer. I did that and got my answer,
You too can do the same. The church of Jeus Christ of latter day saints is true. The book of mormon is indeed another testament of Jesus Christ, if you read it you will come to understand the bible and be able to draw closer to God. It helps you answer 3 questions.
1. Where we were before we were born?
2. What are we doing here on the earth?
3. If we die where will we go?