moderatorr:
Some web 'gurus' and web design seminar attendees mask as web developers, collect projects from unsuspecting clients, mess them up and brace up the worst.
The client hence wastes money paying another web developer, to repair it or do a fresh one.
Most clients believe that asking a web developer to show you their potfolio, is the silver bullet to detect if they can handle the job or not.
Its not enough. I'll let you know ways to spot web rogues and real web developers from a discussion i had with a prospective client .
Here is the brief story, the client (name withheld) , posted here on nairaland, more than a mont ago, asking for a web designer who could replicate the functionalities of a certain foreign web site.
Unfortunately, he gave out the project to the cheapest and first bidder.
Last night, the client contacted me (i also commented on the thread) , we had a chat on whatsapp.
He introduced himself and explained to me that even after one month "some things were still not working and that the web 'developer' " couldn't deliver.
Here is my advice to him,
"give him more time, he may still find his way around the present glitches and complete the project. Maybe its his first time to execute such a technical project. But nevertheless ,mount more pressure on him"
He replied that he had given him 1 week deadline to deliver. He complained that he never knew, the 'guy' was amateur.
[i have the screenshots, but i'll just copy and paste
client: [7:19am, 10/14/2014] ‪ Av list lots of investors who are ready to give me some cash to promote the site
[7:20am, 10/14/2014] ‪+‬:
But I keep given them excuse upon excuse. It's over a month now, the site is not ready...

ME: Ok, just give him time. Its good you have pressured him with a deadline. He will figure out a way to put it all together eventually.

In case of next time, If the designer charges too cheap for an obviously very technical project, he is still an amateur, and lacks understanding of the technical requirements and time frame of the project.

You should also check the portfolio of the web designer before giving out the project. Make sure u are giving out to a web designer who has done something a bit similar before.

CLiENT: [7:21am, 10/14/2014] ‪He charged me I hosted the domain so he charged me 35k
[7:22am, 10/14/2014] : He showed me his profile and I was convinced he can handled it
[7:23am, 10/14/2014] : Every other thing worked except for the major functions

ME: People can download beautiful online templates, tweak it a little and then host it as new websites for their clients. The beauty of a website does not reflect expertise these days, It is the functionality that you should be looking at.
Its the functionality that would reflect the experience of the programmer.
You should always ask yourself or the programmer "what does this website do" instead of "who who was it designed for?"
The answer to the first question will say alot about the extent of work the programmer put in. It differentiates web developers from web amateurs and cheats whose incompetency will end up costing you more.

CLIENT: Pls just be on the standby

ME: No problem. Only thing is that we may have issues with the cost of building the website. Though you can pay in installments over time as you are able to.
CLIENT: its ok

wheww! That was it. I censored a lot to remove any info that will reveal any sensitive information. But hope you get the picture?

Op am not impressed. Aside from the experience you shared, you failed to provide tangible details on how to spot a rogue web developer. Please provide more cogent information. Thx

Clone2020:


How can u give a quote for a project u have no clue about? What did u base your estimate on? Did i provide you with any details? Also why is the figure in dollars? You are one of the "website designers" op is talking about.

lol

Matthewbriggs:
I can relate with the Op. Nigeria has a huge talent deficit and has lots of people who see IT as salvation from hunger and poverty. I have been a victim of rogue developers not just one, two or three. I have lost more that 500k to them. But I have learnt my lesson the hard way. From experience these are what to look out for.

Motive - What drives him as a person, What is he passionate about, is it the desire to make a quick buck, is he interested in fame, money or leaving a legacy doing something he can attach his name to? This can be derived from interacting with him.

Skill/Talent: It is helpful to know a little about development ... It pays a lot to take your time to study web development a little. because doing so It will arm you with knowledge to really know when a developer is not grounded. It will also help you make better pricing decision for a project. You also get to know how good he is and to what extent. Does his previous job show that he is the kind of person that pays attention to detail. how aware is he of the current technologies available.

His Background :- Run a background check on him, check out his credibility among fellow developers. If possible ask someone deep into IT to vet him.

Finally pay in installments : ... Pay them as the reach certain milestones do not pay them in full. So that encase things go wrong you would not have lost so much. I pay in 3 phases. 20% pre 40% when project reaches 60% completion and remaing 40% when project is 100% completed to my satisfaction.

Moreover after the several setback I have suffered in the hand of Nigerian developers, For my really technical project I now using platforms Like odesk.com to outsource most of my development projects to top development teams and guys in India, Us and Uk in fact where-ever they are around the globe and they deliver speedily and efficiently. I have achieved in 2weeks what I spent 6 months battling with a Nigerian developer.

Till Nigerians developers get their acts together I do not see my self working with any of them soon. Except on minor projects or employing them to manage an already built products.

#Mathew briggs

there are still many professional web developer in Nigeria and even on nairaland

@mathewbriggs not all nigerian developers are bad so don't generalise pls, I will not sound my trumpet so I won't tell u what and what have developed here and I know a host of other guys here that are soo good. Greed is often a factor that kills clients when looking for a developer to handle their jobs. Remember this forumn on which you post this was developed by a nigerian

Matthewbriggs:
I can relate with the Op. Nigeria has a huge talent deficit and has lots of people who see IT as salvation from hunger and poverty. I have been a victim of rogue developers not just one, two or three. I have lost more that 500k to them. But I have learnt my lesson the hard way. From experience these are what to look out for.

Motive - What drives him as a person, What is he passionate about, is it the desire to make a quick buck, is he interested in fame, money or leaving a legacy doing something he can attach his name to? This can be derived from interacting with him.

Skill/Talent: It is helpful to know a little about development ... It pays a lot to take your time to study web development a little. because doing so It will arm you with knowledge to really know when a developer is not grounded. It will also help you make better pricing decision for a project. You also get to know how good he is and to what extent. Does his previous job show that he is the kind of person that pays attention to detail. how aware is he of the current technologies available.

His Background :- Run a background check on him, check out his credibility among fellow developers. If possible ask someone deep into IT to vet him.

Finally pay in installments : ... Pay them as the reach certain milestones do not pay them in full. So that encase things go wrong you would not have lost so much. I pay in 3 phases. 20% pre 40% when project reaches 60% completion and remaing 40% when project is 100% completed to my satisfaction.

Moreover after the several setback I have suffered in the hand of Nigerian developers, For my really technical project I now using platforms Like odesk.com to outsource most of my development projects to top development teams and guys in India, Us and Uk in fact where-ever they are around the globe and they deliver speedily and efficiently. I have achieved in 2weeks what I spent 6 months battling with a Nigerian developer.

Till Nigerians developers get their acts together I do not see my self working with any of them soon. Except on minor projects or employing them to manage an already built products.

#Mathew briggs

A thousand Likes to this. Your post should have been the content of this thread not the "Mary Amaka" content the OP posted.

cbrass:
@mathewbriggs not all nigerian developers are bad so don't generalise pls, I will not sound my trumpet so I won't tell u what and what have developed here and I know a host of other guys here that are soo good. Greed is often a factor that kills clients when looking for a developer to handle their jobs. Remember this forumn on which you post this was developed by a nigerian

my point exactly

cbrass:
@mathewbriggs not all nigerian developers are bad so don't generalise pls, I will not sound my trumpet so I won't tell u what and what have developed here and I know a host of other guys here that are soo good. Greed is often a factor that kills clients when looking for a developer to handle their jobs. Remember this forumn on which you post this was developed by a nigerian

I am not doubting the fact that there are not good developers ... But they are extremely few... Its like finding a needle in a haystack ... What we have are lot of learners and intermidiate level guys. The really good guys are hard to find. They are either busy working for the likes of Google and Konga ... And even when you find them they are extremely expensive when compared to their global counterparts in developing countries like ours.

What I do is commit them with low level tasks for now or hire them to manage already built products ... But for really deep technical projects I outsource ...

maekhel:

first of all what type of website do u want to build?

A business website for an academic services organization.

sammoe:

A business website for an academic services organization.

so what functions do you want for your website? give an overview

Come guys, this one 5k, 10k & 35k is just flying around, are those the going rates for websites? Plus do u guys differentiate a Web app from a website? And I thought software was engineered by teams? How come everyone is just saying me/my etc. I don't see how websites/webapps of any standard can be built by a single person. Who does the quality checks? The same person that designed and coded? Common guys!

I think the title is misleading... It should be WEB DEVELOPERS AT WAR

Most people don't do their home work before giving jobs to web developers, that is why this web developers defraud a lot of Nigerians.

Simple tasks to consider before talking to a web-developer-

1.Purpose of the website i.e, e-commerce, education e.t.c
2.Web structuring and presenting language i.e HTML5
3.Security i.e SSL certificate
4.Web platforms i.e Mobile, PC e.t.c
5.Payment gateway i.e webpay, interswitch, banks payment platforms e.t.c
6.Cost of structuring and presenting registration i.e .ng ,.com e.t.c
7.Cost of structuring and presenting

Just to mention few.

NOTE- You don't need to give 3,5,6 and 7, any web developer, because their are companies doing those task.
Most fraudulent developers always insist on handling task 3,5,6 and 7, but insist you prefare going to the companies in-charge.

reading thru the post was eye-opening until onyegbu cleared his name, onyegbu u are a tru man I can see that cosif u did a bad job the client wud have said so, and moderator u also a man for opening our eyes to certain things... well for me i learnt one or two things but i have this to say onyegbu pls Dont be offended, moderator take it easy and client am more annoyed with you cos the story revolve round u, first why did u report onyegbu to moderator if he did a good job? and you said he did a good job and the project will be online tomorrow can u give us the website? need to see for myself so i can give my judgement. looking forward to your response client.

Matthewbriggs:


I am not doubting the fact that there are not good developers ... But they are extremely few... Its like finding a needle in a haystack ... What we have are lot of learners and intermidiate level guys. The really good guys are hard to find. They are either busy working for the likes of Google and Konga ... And even when you find them they are extremely expensive when compared to their global counterparts in developing countries like ours.

What I do is commit them with low level tasks for now or hire them to manage already built products ... But for really deep technical projects I outsource ...

Now from your post I can deduce you are some of those clients we developers call "CLIENTS FROM HELL" no offence please. First of all what's the big deal about konga ahahahah then you mentioned google, its so funny. The good guys are busy because they are working on a project so are the bad ones too, infact the bad ones seems more busy cos they charge at a ridiculously low fee which most of u clients do fall victim off due to your greed some of you clients don't even know what u want and u think ur developer is doing rubbish for you. There are some guys here on this webmaster forum who don't do any jobless thank 100k some maybe tempted to do less, its not because they don't worth more it could just be because they need the money badly.

If you want a facebook sef, guys plenty here wey go do am for you

adewasco2k:

this is how to spot them, you dont know what he wants yet but you are giving prices.

that shows desperation and good developers aint despirate

I did not give him any price. I just told him my minimum regardless of whether it is a one page website.

Clone2020:


How can u give a quote for a project u have no clue about? What did u base your estimate on? Did i provide you with any details? Also why is the figure in dollars? You are one of the "website designers" op is talking about.

Sir, I just told you my minimum regardless of whether it is a one page website or not, and as long as I am going to spend up to 5 hours on your job. What this means is that the details will determine if you are going to pay more or not. I work with the concept of opportunity cost. It is that simple.

olicgad:
whenever i'm about to take a client job i will do some samples and host it on a free hosting provider so that the client will see am real not only portfolio

why do samples when you have previous projects that can easily convince this new client.
if you don't have, then you need to build it up first and don't get ripped off.

when you go to a fast food joint, do you get to sample the meatpie?

@moderatorr it is more like trying to buy a TV worth 250k for 70K
when it packs up, your mood should reflect "thank God, na 70k i buy am"

jaydee87:
reading thru the post was eye-opening until onyegbu cleared his name, onyegbu u are a tru man I can see that cosif u did a bad job the client wud have said so, and moderator u also a man for opening our eyes to certain things... well for me i learnt one or two things but i have this to say onyegbu pls Dont be offended, moderator take it easy and client am more annoyed with you cos the story revolve round u, first why did u report onyegbu to moderator if he did a good job? and you said he did a good job and the project will be online tomorrow can u give us the website? need to see for myself so i can give my judgement. looking forward to your response client.

First I did not report onyegbu to moderator. If you read what the OP posted you see that I said he (onyegbu) did a good job but few functions are not working. If you read my own comment here. You will see were I said the delay was somehow caused by me.
We are waiting for Facebook approval like I said before. As soon as Facebook approves the app. I Will come back here and post the link to the Website. We submitted the review on Saturday.
Just relax I will definitely come back to post the link.

cbrass:


Now from your post I can deduce you are some of those clients we developers call "CLIENTS FROM HELL" no offence please. First of all what's the big deal about konga ahahahah then you mentioned google, its so funny. The good guys are busy because they are working on a project so are the bad ones too, infact the bad ones seems more busy cos they charge at a ridiculously low fee which most of u clients do fall victim off due to your greed some of you clients don't even know what u want and u think ur developer is doing rubbish for you. There are some guys here on this webmaster forum who don't do any jobless thank 100k some maybe tempted to do less, its not because they don't worth more it could just be because they need the money badly.

If you want a facebook sef, guys plenty here wey go do am for you

Clients from helll or whatever you deduce you are on your own. What's the big deal about konga ... ask the 40 really talented developers working for konga, the investors who have invested over 80million dollars in the business.

The fact is you never understood my post and came up with really wierd deduction. My use of the analogy that they are working for the likes of google and kongs simply means The good guys are scarce one reason among many is because they few ones we have are in high demand by top IT companies who go the extra mile to track them down and recruit them with very good pay ... Something I think they deserve.

The mistake a client can make is to judge the quality of a developer by how much he charges you because I have been there and done that. I am the kind of person who knows what I want to the letter and can empty his account in as much as I can get the best, I do not compromise on quality. What I discovered is that majority of people who call themselves top developers overestimate their skills and in turn their price.

You stated that guys plenty wey fit do facebook ... I think what you meant is that guys plenty wey fit use template, guys plenty wey fit use already made code plugins and scripts with out understanding how they work. Guys plenty wey think they be don when they don sabi how to customise WordPress and joomal. Guys plenty wey think they done arrive once they understand small php, Mysql and java etc.

Dude my real eyes opened to how really good most developers are the moment I learnt a little about web development. It would surprise you that I now even carry out basic website project on my own without help, I built my company website have made some cool cash doing same for my friends. So I can tell when a dev guy is good or not ... I do not judge their skills by how much they charge. I judge them by the 3bench marks I stated in my earlier post.

Because a developers price from experience is a really wrong criteria to use in judging a developers skill.


#Mathewbriggs

JackOfAllTrades:
so what functions do you want for your website? give an overview

I want a combination of elements of a website and blog. A couple of static pages and a blog section where interactions can take place.

Wow! Been a while I last commented on this section of Nl but this one is definitely a thread for a lil bit of contribution.

Now i know this stems around a client and a developer and the need for clients to be wary of whom they give jobs based on price as a major criteria etc...

By the way, excellent points made by the op which i must commend but then again we have to sit down and look into the modern world as we have it today.

Most clients really don't know what they want and its the duty of a developer/ designer to educate them. This goes beyond quickly saying "Oh i can do it" or " Piece of cake, it will only cost you blah blah blah"

Now when the developer /designer in this case (Those who are truly trained and have High level of experience and acumen in the trade) does his own duty and the client refuses to listen and still premises on having the job done by the lowest bidder, then taking on that job for such a client actually shows the true worth or level, that so called developer or designer is operating. Desperation, low standards etc is the way i put it.

But if, like as mentioned here, you have a pure formal process of Discovery, Proposal presentation, Project timelines, Design. development inventory and of course excellent deliverable based on all the project proposal entails.. Functionality, design, interactivity, purpose, custom coding, cms, e'commecre...etc...

Then definitely the Client would have an immediate sense of your expertise as all this processes even before any discussion of price et all shows the quality this developer/ designer is ready to offer and also shows or gives a hint the minimum amount this person would command as well.

My two cents is that developers, whether or not you know all the programming languages, application frameworks, built you own cms whatever, you need to learn to start approaching clients in a professional manner, hence you can start commanding the fee your hard-learned knowledge is supposed to fetch you.

Its an age where, its not the hard-work that gets you the $5000 dollar job(you could literally do in 3 days) but its the Smart-work.

Clients will always be clients(especially in these parts of the world, with hunger,strife,poverty etc) but you just need to get off the desperation wheel and attract the goldmines. To do that, you will need to understand how the goldmines work and where they are.

sammoe:

I want a combination of elements of a website and blog. A couple of static pages and a blog section where interactions can take place.

sounds interesting please pm me more info let's see if we can work something out

payne4real:


First I did not report onyegbu to moderator. If you read what the OP posted you see that I said he (onyegbu) did a good job but few functions are not working. If you read my own comment here. You will see were I said the delay was somehow caused by me.
We are waiting for Facebook approval like I said before. As soon as Facebook approves the app. I Will come back here and post the link to the Website. We submitted the review on Saturday.
Just relax I will definitely come back to post the link.

okay sorry for the misconception... hoping for the swift response from Facebook... congrats..

Guys, I need a web developer.

AudreyTimms:
Guys, I need a web developer.

you got one

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GREENMOUSE TECHNOLOGIES
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What language do u use in web development.

Most client didn't know the different between web designer and web develop, the job that should be given to a designer and the one that should be given to a develop. Some people claim to be a we developer when all they could do is to design web sites with template and CMS. As for me I don't see anybody using a CMS for most of his work as a developer. Some people created joomla, drupal and wordpress. Why should you limit urself to that. As for me, I believe in developing from scratch, and when u need to use someone else code, u need to know about the code before using it.