Linguistic Evidence Supports Yoruba Migration From Egypt Thesis


For a fast read, scroll down to page 101:



Ancient Egyptian and Modern Yoruba : Phonetic Regularity

http://www.ankhonline.com/ankh_num_16/ankh_16_t_obenga_ancient%20egyptian%20and%20modern%20yoruba.pdf


As you read through the study, you will find that many Yoruba words that correspond to Ancient Egyptian are also shared by Igbo, Akan, Bini, Wolof, Bambara groups etc.. (just pronounced or spelt slightly differently), showing that many West African ethnic groups have deep Nile Valley connections from antiquity.

Great.

I'm familiar with Obenga's work. If you read the document more attentively, you will see that Obenga does NOT say Yoruba, and the African language groups cited (Hausa, Oromo, Afar, Mande, etc), are direct descendants of Ancient Egyptians.

Consider on the document, p108 (p11 on the pdf), the "Egypto-African Common Stock"

If you look at the hierarchy of the Egypto-African common stock language, which is a very old language, older than 10 000 BC . You will notice that modern African languages like Cushitic, Chadic, Niger-Congo(aka Niger-Kordofanian) as well as the Ancient Egyptian language are descendant of a common parent language called 'Egypto-African common stock' language in this document.

We must understand by this that at one time in history, before 10 000BC, there was a group of people speaking the language we could call proto-Egypto-African who would later separate and migrate toward different directions in Africa. Starting the proto-Egypto-African language differentiation which would lead ultimately to the various African languages spoken today.

If you read Obenga's other work, you will see he situates the origin of this Egypto-African common stock language before 10 000BC, possibly in the region around Sudan/ethiopia (which is where Ancient Egyptians come from, after the Green Saharan desertification along with other regions like Nabta Playa, in search of greener pastures).

So basically, Obenga's doesn't say the African people cited in the document are direct descendant of dynastic Ancient Egyptians. It's more like both Yoruba and Ancient Egyptians, as well as other African language family like Cushitic, Chadic and other Niger-Congo speakers, are descendants of a common language (thus possibly common people) well before the foundation of Ancient Egypt (but later than the OOA migrations of course).

What is said above is also supported by genetic studies. If you consider the E-P2 Y-DNA haplogroup lineage, a genetic marker prevalent in many African populations like Yoruba, Somali, Igbo, Wolof, Oromo, Karrayu, Bantu, Congo, etc.

We can consider this quote from the linked study:

Using the principle of the phylogeographic parsimony, the resolution of the E1b1b trifurcation in favor of a common ancestor of E-M2 and E-M329 strongly supports the hypothesis that haplogroup E1b1 originated in eastern Africa, as previously suggested [10], and that chromosomes E-M2, so frequently observed in sub-Saharan Africa, trace their descent to a common ancestor present in eastern Africa.

-- from A New Topology of the Human Y Chromosome Haplogroup E1b1 (E-P2) Revealed through the Use of Newly Characterized Binary Polymorphisms (Trombetta 2011) . Download/consult here: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0016073



E-P2 is a common haplogroup paternal lineage among various African populations like Yoruba and Somali (and all Niger-Kordofanian and Cushitic speakers for example). Population like Yoruba and Somali also share various MtDNA counterpart lineages like L2a, L3bf, L3cd, L3eikx, L0a, etc. Yoruba people have over 90% of the E-P2 lineage (also known as E1b1) in the form of E1b1a(E-M2) in their population and Somali have over 80% of the E-P2 lineage in the form of E1b1b in their population.

In relation to Obenga's linguistic works and document. This common E-P2 haplogroup lineage was the common lineage of Niger-Kordofanian, Cushitic and Chadic speakers before they separated and migrate away from their (North)-Eastern African homeland a long time ago (between the OOA migrations and 10 000BC). The study above tells us: that chromosomes E-M2[present in over 90% of Yoruba], so frequently observed in sub-Saharan Africa, trace their descent to a common ancestor present in eastern Africa.. E-P2 is indeed the most common haplogroup paternal lineage in Africa and is quite recent in term of human history.

AmunRaOlodumare:
I'm familiar with Obenga's work. If you read the document more attentively, you will see that Obenga does NOT say Yoruba, and the African language groups cited (Hausa, Oromo, Afar, Mande, etc), are direct descendants of Ancient Egyptians.

Consider on the document, p108 (p11 on the pdf), the "Egypto-African Common Stock"

If you look at the hierarchy of the Egypto-African common stock language, which is a very old language, older than 10 000 BC . You will notice that modern African languages like Cushitic, Chadic, Niger-Congo(aka Niger-Kordofanian) as well as the Ancient Egyptian language are descendant of a common parent language called 'Egypto-African common stock' language in this document.

We must understand by this that at one time in history, before 10 000BC, there was a group of people speaking the language we could call proto-Egypto-African who would later separate and migrate toward different directions in Africa. Starting the proto-Egypto-African language differentiation which would lead ultimately to the various African languages spoken today.

If you read Obenga's other work, you will see he situates the origin of this Egypto-African common stock language before 10 000BC, possibly in the region around Sudan/ethiopia (which is where Ancient Egyptians come from, after the Green Saharan desertification along with other regions like Nabta Playa, in search of greener pastures).

So basically, Obenga's doesn't say the African people cited in the document are direct descendant of dynastic Ancient Egyptians. It's more like both Yoruba and Ancient Egyptians, as well as other African language family like Cushitic, Chadic and other Niger-Congo speakers, are descendants of a common language (thus possibly common people) well before the foundation of Ancient Egypt (but later than the OOA migrations of course).

Point taken. Nice one.

AmunRaOlodumare:
I'm familiar with Obenga's work. If you read the document more attentively, you will see that Obenga does NOT say Yoruba, and the African language groups cited (Hausa, Oromo, Afar, Mande, etc), are direct descendants of Ancient Egyptians.

Consider on the document, p108 (p11 on the pdf), the "Egypto-African Common Stock"

If you look at the hierarchy of the Egypto-African common stock language, which is a very old language, older than 10 000 BC . You will notice that modern African languages like Cushitic, Chadic, Niger-Congo(aka Niger-Kordofanian) as well as the Ancient Egyptian language are descendant of a common parent language called 'Egypto-African common stock' language in this document.

We must understand by this that at one time in history, before 10 000BC, there was a group of people speaking the language we could call proto-Egypto-African who would later separate and migrate toward different directions in Africa. Starting the proto-Egypto-African language differentiation which would lead ultimately to the various African languages spoken today.

If you read Obenga's other work, you will see he situates the origin of this Egypto-African common stock language before 10 000BC, possibly in the region around Sudan/ethiopia (which is where Ancient Egyptians come from, after the Green Saharan desertification along with other regions like Nabta Playa, in search of greener pastures).

So basically, Obenga's doesn't say the African people cited in the document are direct descendant of dynastic Ancient Egyptians. It's more like both Yoruba and Ancient Egyptians, as well as other African language family like Cushitic, Chadic and other Niger-Congo speakers, are descendants of a common language (thus possibly common people) well before the foundation of Ancient Egypt (but later than the OOA migrations of course).

Excellent and brilliant. I don't know why people keep trying to force an Egyptian origin on Yoruba

Wats to say Egyptians didn't come from us?

macof:


Excellent and brilliant. I don't know why people keep trying to force an Egyptian origin on Yoruba

Wats to say Egyptians didn't come from us?

More than likely it's both, ie there was an aboriginal group from which Yorubas, other ethnic groups and ancient Egyptians sprang, and also that groups of ancient migrants from dynastic (or post dynastic) Egypt settled in Yorubaland and elsewhere in the West African forest regions following political upheavals. There is fulsome testimony of this in Yoruba oral history, and there are certain practices shared by both groups suggesting more recent contact after the initial dispersals.

.

ROSSIKE:


More than likely it's both, ie there was an aboriginal group from which Yorubas, other ethnic groups and ancient Egyptians sprang, and also that groups of ancient migrants from dynastic (or post dynastic) Egypt settled in Yorubaland and elsewhere in the West African forest regions following political upheavals. There is fulsome testimony of this in Yoruba oral history, and there are certain practices shared by both groups suggesting more recent contact after the initial dispersals.

Well your theory seems intelligent and probable but as for saying there are testimonies in Yoruba oral history, that's jst bull
There's no reference to migration from Egypt in any Yoruba tale
And the similar practices you speak of where those practiced in pre-dynastic upper Egypt...nothing recent is of spectacular similarities
Don't add lies

why not ask for the material being referenced then draw your own conclusions from there?

ROSSIKE:
Linguistic Evidence Supports Yoruba Migration From Egypt Thesis


For a fast read, scroll down to page 101:



Ancient Egyptian and Modern Yoruba : Phonetic Regularity

http://www.ankhonline.com/ankh_num_16/ankh_16_t_obenga_ancient%20egyptian%20and%20modern%20yoruba.pdf


As you read through the study, you will find that many Yoruba words that correspond to Ancient Egyptian are also shared by Igbo, Akan, Bini, Wolof, Bambara groups etc.. (just pronounced or spelt slightly differently), showing that many West African ethnic groups have deep Nile Valley connections from antiquity.

This has to be some cheap scholarship work to gain name rrcognition. How can anyone compare an ANCIENT language with a MODERN language for congruency?

You compare ancient tongue of one with ancient tongue of another if the purpose is to find commonality.

MetaPhysical:

You compare ancient tongue of one with ancient tongue of another if the purpose is to find commonality.

You can also compare tongue of different people who share a common ancient tongue. That's what Obenga's does.

For example, you can compare Zulu, Wolof and Yoruba between each others because they share a common proto-Niger-Kordofanian ancestor language even if Yoruba is not a descendant language of Zulu or Wolof or vice-versa. They all share a common parent language called proto-Niger-Kordofanian. This is common knowledge among linguists.

According to Obenga, it is the same with the Ancient Egyptian languages and modern African languages. While Ancient Egyptians is NOT the ancient language spoken by Zulu, Wolof or Yoruba, all those languages, including Ancient Egyptians, share a common parent language called proto-Egypto-African Common Stock language by Obenga. That language was spoken a long time ago beyond 10 000BC (but after the OOA migrations), near the Sudan/Egypt/Ethiopian region.

As mentioned above this also has support with genetics as the great majority of African people (like Yoruba, Somali, Wolof, Zulu, Karrayyu, Niger-Kordofanian, Cushitic and Chadic speakers) share a common paternal grandfather: E-P2(pn2) as well as various MtDNA grandmothers. This proto-Egypto-African language may be the language spoken by this E-P2 common ancestor and his people a long time ago. The languages became distinct when our ancestors migrated in different direction after their common origin (of the greater part of their genome) in Northeastern Africa. That is at a time period well BEFORE the foundation of the Ancient Egyptian state. The Ancient Egyptian language would be also a descendant of the language spoken by this common E-P2 ancestor, the proto-Egypto-African Common Stock language. That's why, for example, you can find similar words in various modern African languages family spoken today (as well as in Ancient Egyptians). They are not descendant of one another but share a common parent.

^^^
AmunRaOlodumare,

I do not dispute that. The OP took hint and changed the heading to align correctly with Obenga's study.

The modified heading is appropriate for the work.

MetaPhysical:
^^^
AmunRaOlodumare,

I do not dispute that. The OP took hint and changed the heading to align correctly with Obenga's study.

The modified heading is appropriate for the work.

Unless, you now agree with me, you must dispute something a little bit in my reply to you since I shown you how it's perfectly possible to compare an ancient language like Ancient Egyptian with various modern African languages like Yoruba, that is, since they share (according to Obenga) a common parent ancestral language between each others (much before the foundation of the Ancient Egyptian state). The same way you can compare Zulu with Yoruba.

The current OP title is not correct either if I consider Obenga's work since he considers the geographical homeland of the proto-Egypto-African Common Stock language from which Yoruba and Ancient Egyptian descends from to be in Sudan, not Egypt. So to align the title with Obenga's work it should be Sudan not Egypt. Even then, as any linguistic homeland, even according to Obenga, this is only an approximation. It's more fair to say it is around the Sudanese region in Northeastern Africa.