tartar9:
they were told as their citizens to pay their tax and not forced to convert as you say.

usermane:


It is too bad you are yet to realize the problem with jizya from your law. You try equating jizya to tax and an alternative to zakat. No one with a sound understanding of jizya will accept that.

Zakat is paid for feeding the poor and needy, tax is paid for running state services but jizya is paid simply to avoid death. Remember Shari'ah gives non-Muslims 3 choices; convert, pay jizya or face death. Those who do not convert pay jizya to be spared of death, not for any other reason as in tax and zakat where the objective of paying is not to avert death.

tartar9:
they were told as their citizens to pay their tax and not forced to convert as you say.

tartar9:
Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim.
The phenomenon of the idea that Jihad is only
defensive is rapidly being spread amongst Muslim
circles. It is without doubt a relatively new idea
that seems to have appeared since the demise of
the 'uthamani Khilafah and tends to come from
the rhetoric of apologists and modernists who
seem to have a problem with many key aspects
of traditional Islamic 'Aqeedah and Islamic Law.
The ironic thing is, those who are calling for a
reform to how we should approach the Shariah
are also declarers of following 'Traditional Islam'.
However, what seems to be more apparent is
that they find no qualms in adhering to
interpretations of traditional Islamic law in non
controversial and non - 'ideological' matters, but
when matters of contemporary issues arise, such
as Jihad, apostasy, the Islamic penal code,
interfaith relations etc, new interpretations are
called for.
This is a serious problem we are facing and a
short article will never be able to address this
issue accordingly. Before a Muslim steps into the
battlefield, he has
already fought a great battle within himself
against Satan- against his own desires and
ambitions, his personal interests and inclinations,
the interests of his own family and of his nation;
against anything which is not from Islam; against
every obstacle which comes into the way of
worshipping Allah and the implementation of the
Divine authority on earth, returning this authority
to Allah and taking it away from the rebellious
usurpers.
Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for
the defense of the 'home land of Islam' diminish
the greatness of the Islamic way of life and
consider it less important than their 'homeland'.
This is not the Islamic point of view, and their
view is a creation of modern age and is
completely alien to Islamic consciousness. What
is acceptable to Islamic consciousness is its
belief, the way of life which this belief prescribes,
and the society which lives according to this way
of life. The soil of the homeland has, in itself, no
value or weight. From the Islamic point of view,
the only value which the soil can achieve is
because on that soil Allah's authority is
established and Allah's guidance is followed; and
thus it becomes a fortress for the belief, a place
for its way of life to be entitled the 'homeland of
Islam', a centre for the movement for the total
freedom of man.
Of course, in that case the defense of the
'homeland of Islam' is the defense of the Islamic
beliefs, the Islamic way of life, and the Islamic
community. However, it's defense is not the
ultimate objective of the Islamic movement of
Jihad but it is a mean of establishing the Divine
authority within it so that it becomes the
headquarters for the movement of Islam, which is
then to be carried throughout the earth to the
whole of mankind, as the object of this religion is
all humanity and its sphere of action is the whole
earth.
As we have described earlier, there are many
practical obstacles in the establishing Allah's rule
on earth, such as the power of state, the social
system and traditions and, in general, the whole
human environment. Islam uses force only to
remove these obstacles so that there may not
remain any wall between Islam and individual
human beings, and so that it may address their
hearts and minds after releasing them from these
material obstacles, and then leave them free to
choose to accept or reject it.
We ought not to be deceived or embarrassed by
the attacks of the Orientalists on the origin of
Jihad, nor lose self-confidence under the pressure
of present conditions and the weight of the great
powers of the world to such an extent that we try
to find reasons for Islamic Jihad outside the
nature of this religion, and try to show that it was
a defensive measure under temporary conditions.
The need for Jihad remains, and will continue to
remain, whether these conditions exist or not!

Unbias:
This is the second muslim I'll see on NL that is factual on traditional islam. Most NL muslims understand jihad as practised in the epoch of Muhammad and know how islam pushed her frontiers aggresively between 6th to say 11th century, some give hidden solidarity to anyone trying to enforce Islam or kill infidels but deny offensive jihad in public

gunpoint:
[s]OP
Must everything in islam be on the threat of death?
What happened to live and let leave?
Unfortunately you are just speaking the truth.
I know tooo many "secular" muslims who deny this, but islam is a bloodletting religion on Monday to Sunday.
You are a fundamentalist by all measures.
Shame.
Waiting to see you face plastered all over the tv for blowing shit up soon.
Assuming you are still alive that is[/s]

tartar9:
so because they are jews the so-called Gods 'choosen people' they should avoid justice for their crimes.this is not like in the bloodthirsty bible that depicts a god ordering the rape and slaughter innocents including women and children and even animals!

tartar9:
where did i support terrorism? Terrorism is infact haram,Jihad is far more glorious than that,just see what those kharijites terrorist haved reduced Jihad to,petty terrorism!

shadeyinka:
[s]

Fighting the Jews is almost synonymous with fighting against God's cause. Even in Islam 90% of all the prophets you claim you believe in are Jews. It doesn't sink down to Muslims that Jesus Himself was a Jew...and fro a religion where you are given rewards for killing a Jew, it must be satanic.[/s]

shadeyinka:


You did not openly accent to terrorism, but you justified why jihad should be aggressively offensive (and not just defensive). All jihadists thread that same path.

In an offensive war, how do you determine "a just cause" for an invasion?

In the case of Islam, the rest of the world outside the Muslim umah belong to the "house of war".

But I like you all the same. You spoke the truth about the relationship between Islam and Jihad. Any other view is un-islamic no matter how people want to make it look civil.

tartar9:

In summary,jews are so special they are free to commit any crime including murdering your god.

Most of the Prophets aren't jews.

shadeyinka:

You said that on your own
How can they be justified for doing evil? Even Jesus condemned His own people by saying
Matthew 23:34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

So, your insinuation is as wrong as your hatred for the same Jews.

Answering your last mistake, if most of your prophets aren't Jewish, who are these? Arabs?
Yakub
Yusuf
Dauda
Sulaimon
Yahaya
Al Yasa
Imran
Musa
Harun
Isa
Sakariyau
Dhul-Kifl
BTW,


If you can double this number with non Jewish prophets then you speak the truth. Otherwise go learn more about substantiating assertions with facts and not just memorisations

tartar9:

" And We have sent a messenger to every nation: "You shall serve God and
avoid evil." Some of them were guided by God, and some of them deserved to
be misguided. So travel in the land, and see how the punishment was of those
who denied" (Quran 16:36)

" We sent Messengers before you. Some of them We have told you about and
others We have not told you about. No Messenger can bring a Sign except
with Allah´s permission. But when Allah´s command comes the matter will be
decided with truth and then and there the liars will be lost" (Quran 40:78)

Ifeann:


Tartar9 is being honest here. Unlike the majority of Muslims he stated facts about the command to spread Islam via force and jihad.
Here are some narrations, hadiths and quran verses to understand his mindset.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger of God commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

Quran 8:39. "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do."

Qur'an (9:29)-"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Sura 9:5. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."

Bukhari 2:24: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."