@lanrexlan, may you be blessed abundantly. You've done a good job here. username is always fanatical in his ideology. He only see within the confinement of his ideology. The 'Quranist' often interpret Islam in the shadow of western ideology/code of conduct or what suit their own thinking.

I'd like to ask username how exactly was the Prophet of Islam interpret and practicalize the 'Law designed for theft,' for example, following this clear order:
"And We have sent down unto you (Muhammad) al-Dhikr (i.e the Quran) that you may explain clearly to mankind what is sent down to them." ~Qur'an 16:44

This noble verse is crystal clear given Muhammad (peace be on him and his household) the sole right to interpret (and practicalize) every single ayah (verse) of the Qur'an. How does he (peace be on him and his household) interpret 'cut their hands'?
********************

WISDOM BEHIND ISLAMIC LAW
The wisdom behind Islamic criminal laws is more of prevention and protection of community’s security rather than executing a punishment. Thus,although Islamic retributions sound violent, in practice Islam has set forth rigorous requirements to prove a crime.

For example, theoretically the punishment of adultery is stoning, however, to prove the crime either four just male eye witnesses must be present
together before the judge to testify that they witnessed the actual fornication and their testimony is exactly the same – if only three just male eye witnesses appear before the court and offer their testimony they will be held liable to punishment-, another way to prove a crime is if the suspect appears before the court on four different occasions and willingly confesses the crime. Even if one of the parties involved confesses the crime the law will be executed only on him/her.

Punishment for theft is another example.
Theoretically its punishment is amputation of the right four fingers – administered under anesthetics.
However, the law will not be executed unless about 15 conditions are met. For example, the law will not be executed during a famine if the stolen item is a
necessity of life, or if the thief repents before the case is brought before a judge, the case will be dismissed, etc.

~ Sheikh Mansour Leghaei

AlBaqir:
"And We have sent down unto you (Muhammad) al-Dhikr (i.e the Quran) that you may explain clearly to mankind what is sent down to them." ~Qur'an 16:44

The word 'bayyina' which you wrongly translated as 'explain clearly' mean 'make clear' and can also mean 'manifest' or 'express' as in Qur'an 16:39, 92, 5:15 24:18.

Nevertheless, your conclusion on this verse undermine several verses where God repeats that He makes clear His revelation(e.g Qur'an 4:176 24:18). What is the need of clarifying what has already been clarified.

I won't be treating this verse again, especially when it is coming from an Islam section agent. Thank You.

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi Arabia's Interior Ministry says a Yemeni man convicted of robbery has had his right hand cut off, the first such punishment carried out in the kingdom this year.

Monday's statement by the ministry said the Yemeni had committed several robberies but gave no further details.

The last time a man's hand was cut off by Saudi authorities was in December 2013, the only one on record for last year.

The kingdom follows a narrow interpretation of Islamic law. Muslim scholars generally agree that severe punishment should not be carried out on a person who steals due to hunger and poverty.

Also, Saudi Arabia has one of the highest execution rates in the world. It has carried out at least 78 executions this year, most of them for drug smuggling.

Just like i said, a first time offence would not result to cutting off the hands. and if it is due to hunger, then it should not. i only argued this yesterday, ALLAH bore me witness today. drugs can crumble a whole civilization, ask the chinese or asians.

usermane:


The word 'bayyina' which you wrongly translated as 'explain clearly' mean 'make clear' and can also mean 'manifest' or 'express' as in Qur'an 16:39, 92, 5:15 24:18.

The bold vs underline! Any difference? Qur'an says: "afala taqilun?" Should I translate that to you?

It is however weird when you ignorantly take out the word "bayyina" (manifest, clear etc) from "litu bayyina li Nas...". What happens to the word "litu" and "li Nas"?

Its either you are ignorant or fanatical of your crooked ideology. This single verse expose your creed.

For the sake of argument, let me use the meaning you prefer for "bayyina", and the verse comes:

"And We have sent down unto you
(Muhammad) al-Dhikr (i.e the Quran) that
you make clear (or manifest) to mankind what is sent down to them."
~Qur'an 16:44

You see how you hang yourself? So all my initial questions stand: How does Muhammad (peace be on him and his household) who is being commanded to "make clear to mankind" the revelations, how does he explain "cut their hands"?

usermane:

Nevertheless, your conclusion on this verse undermine several verses where God repeats that He makes clear His revelation(e.g Qur'an 4:176 24:18). What is the need of clarifying what has already been clarified.

Qur'an replies:
It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear. As for those in whose hearts there is a deviation they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah, and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.

This is a clear verse in itself. There are clear and unclear verses in the holy Qur'an. If every tom, dick and harry, by default, understands clear verses, what about the unclear verses which only Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge understands; and the previous ayah (Qur'an 16:44)clarify without exception that the job of Muhammad (peace be on him and his household) is to "make clear to mankind" what is revealed to them.

No wonder this ayah expose people like you who reject the "make clear" of Muhammad (peace be on him and his household):
...So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah, and seeking for its hidden meanings..

usermane:

I won't be treating this verse again, especially when it is coming from an Islam section agent. Thank You.

have you ever treated it before? You boast too much while you only wander in ignorance.
@bold, what an honor! I only wonder how many of my threads have been either deleted or hidden. At least I should have benefited immensely from being "an Islam section agent"

I pray to the Almighty to liberate you from your stubborn ignorance.

The way you look at it is not how Shari'ah is applied in the Muslim world, gatiano. Shari'ah enforcers don't care for your police record to decide whether it is your first or second offense. The theif 's hand is amputated out right. Here are two examples;

1. Sahih Bukhari 8:81:791

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Allah curses the thief who steals an egg (or a helmet) for which his hand is to be cut off, or steals a rope, for which his hand is to be cut off."

'An' or 'a' in the above indicate one offense, not multiple offense.

2. Theif To Have Hand And Foot Amputated

^^^
Another thing, you insist that the theif is to be pardoned if he repents. This is fallacy that appeal to the ignorant and apologists. According the traditions of Shari'ah advocating Muslims, the repentance and plea of a theif is not acceptable:

Sahih Muslim 17:4190

Jaibir reported that a woman from the tribe of Makhzum committed theft. She was brought to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and she sought refuge (intercession) from Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him). Thereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: By Allah, even if she were Fatima, I would have her hand cut off. And thus her hand was cut off.

Anyone who tells you that Shari'ah permit amputation only for multiple offense(habitaual stealing) and pardon theives who plead guilty or repent is saying so for deceptive purposes. I have many evidence to prove this.

^^^
The truth remains the truth. Ignorance or Malice cannot obliterate it. Those who interpret 'cut off' in Qur'an 5:38 as 'amputate' will have a hard time differentiating that from 'cut off on opposite sides' as in Qur'an 5:33 and 26:49.

Qur'an 5:33
The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides.

Qur'an 26:49
[Pharaoh] said, "You believed Moses before I gave you permission. Indeed, he is your leader who has taught you magic, but you are going to know. I will surely cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will surely crucify you all."

I believe the adjective; 'on opposite sides' differential literal hand cutting(5:33) from metaphorical hand cutting(5:38) in the Quran.

I think maainstream Islamic theology suck at times in interpreting Verses. As with Qur'an 5:38, clear metaphors in several cases ignored, while bizzare literal interpretation are chosen. For instance, look at this verse;

Qur'an 17:45
And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed barrier.

Here is the exegesis on this verse by Ibn Kathir, mainstream Muslims' foremost authority on Quran exegesis:

Ibn Abi Hatim said that his father and Abu Zur`ah both said that `Abdullah bin Az-Zubayr Al-Humaydi told them that Sufyan informed them that Al- Walid bin Kathir related from Ibn Tadrus who reported that Asma' bint Abi Bakr said (Perish the two hands of Abu Lahab and perish he) !) was revealed, the one- eyed Umm Jamil bint Harb came out wailing, and she had a stone in her hand. She was saying, `He criticizes our father, and his religion is our scorn, and his command is to disobey us.' The Messenger of Allah was sitting in the Masjid (of the Ka`bah) and Abu Bakr was with him.

When Abu Bakr saw her he said, `O Messenger of Allah! She is coming and I fear that she will see you.' The Messenger of Allah replied, (Verily, she will not see me.) Then he recited some of the Qur'an as a protection for himself. This is as Allah says, (And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who believe not in the Hereafter, an invisible veil.) (17:45)

So she advanced until she was standing in front of Abu Bakr and she did not see the Messenger of Allah. She then said, `O Abu Bakr! Verily, I have been informed that your friend is making defamatory poetry about me.' Abu Bakr replied, `Nay! By the Lord of this House (the Ka`bah) he is not defaming you.' So she turned away saying, `Indeed the Quraysh know that I am the daughter of their leader.'''

After reading the verse and the next verse, any educated person should know that "barrier" here is mental barrier that hampers the understanding of the disbelievers NOT their sight. The next verse confirms this.

This clearly show how irrationally literal mainstream Muslim clerics and their ancestors interpret the Quran for their sworn followers. They would not read the Quran rationally and yet they won't let others read rationally.

Qur'an 39:29
A blessed Book which We have revealed to you, that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded.

Anomnity:
When your cover has been blown you folks resort to insults.I'll not descend so low to join issues with you.Since you are bent on insults the discussion should end here.But I'll leave you with this.Go and check the relevant verses that your type in Iraq,Palestine,Iraq,boko haram and ISIS are quoting to justify their bloodshed.

You made a claim and gatiano asked you a very logical question. You failed to answer and he called you out on that. Seems fair to me. You want to mislead people and if that is not the case, share those verses from the Quran where Allah commanded muslims to kill for no reason. Also, if you are a Christian, do you know what the Bible says about liars? Or if you are an atheist, is there no moral compass that advises you to be truthful? It's better to be silent than speak of that of which you have absolutely no knowledge. And if you must speak, ask questions to gain some knowledge.

@usermane. Its truly amazing to observe the lengths that you go to for some of the things you post here. I jus t wonder what your goals are ultimately.
You cannot seem to make your mind up about the Quran, Islam or Muslims. May Allah safeguard us and grant us knowledge, understanding and wisdom. Amin.

I have said to you severally, i don't use the hadith. Think about it, ALLAH's Messenger said that..., i heard Messenger of ALLAH said that..., This is what the Prophet says.. blah bla bla.
according to google that you all love to believe,
Hadith (/ˈhædɪθ/[1] or /hɑːˈdiːθ/;[2] Arabic: حديث‎) in Muslim religious use is often translated as prophetic 'traditions', meaning the corpus of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. The hadith literature was compiled from oral reports that were in circulation in society around the time of their compilation long after the death of Muhammad. Bukhari's collection is considered the most reliable by many traditional religious scholars who are Sunnis. The Shi'as believe in an entirely separate body of Hadith.

As you can see, do not hold Prophet Muhammad responsible for all that is happening, i bet He will be wailing if he sees what is happening. That hadith was made long after he was dead, so was Jesus too, and all of the prophets. The caucasian race infiltrated all religion and slotted in what suit their agenda. Hadith is an arab culture. Quran is for the Muslims. what is the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc?

To win boko haram is easy, it can't be done with weapons, remove the hadith, and Teach the Quran, all will be living in harmony and peace. It is hard for my black brothers to see reasons, leave the hadith alone, Embrace the Quran.

usermane:
The way you look at it is not how Shari'ah is applied in the Muslim world, gatiano. Shari'ah enforcers don't care for your police record to decide whether it is your first or second offense. The theif 's hand is amputated out right. Here are two examples;



'An' or 'a' in the above indicate one offense, not multiple offense.

2. Theif To Have Hand And Foot Amputated

as you have digged and stated: from the hadith that: Sahih Bukhari 8:81:791

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Allah curses the thief who steals an egg (or a helmet) for which his hand is to be cut off, or steals a rope, for which his hand is to be cut off."

i even began to wonder why you tried to turn an allergorical sense of the verse into what would suit your own lowly desires.
do you know what An agg means in this instance, so as to be mistake, "or a helmet" is added, when in a sentence one say this or that, that means either this or either that is classified as the same, meaning helmet or the egg are classified as the same category.

helmet is one's form of security, without it we are exposed to all kind of danger, An without the egg, there will simply be no life, the universe, earth or the atom is not a perfect round circle, they are a egg shape. so if one should steal something that elaborate as in the means of life and the essence of its protection, then there hands are all to be chopped off. most african leaders which include the politicians, the pastors, the imams etc deserve their hands to be chopped off. they have killed million of lives.

i don't know what the rope signifies. perhaps to pull someone up into knowledge, wisdom or greatness, all to bound a people up in unity of peace, justice and equality. if someone steals that, and all this, chopping off hand is injustice, it should be chopping off of heads.

usermane:
I think maainstream Islamic theology suck at times in interpreting Verses. As with Qur'an 5:38, clear metaphors in several cases ignored, while bizzare literal interpretation are chosen.

mainstream interpretation aside, is the verse metaphorical if applied to politicians for looting?

The second phase of this topic is here; Shari'ah II: Phantom Heaven

Speaking on apostasy, here is an article on an apostate suffering persecution in Egypt.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hegazy

Mainstream media seldom relate these stories in the name of political correctness.