deavicky:
e don finshed? U for paste more as u no know say na time person go take read am.

It obviously doesn't concern you. Those who need it will find time to read it.
By the way, quoting the entire post is not cool.

bukatyne:


Men and pride

Pride goeth before a fall

Madam manhood, masculinity = pride.

Great points, but I believe the topic should be changed to "Little things that could help a marriage". The truth is marriage is a lot more complicated than people know, it takes more then love, more than luck, sometimes it has nothing to do with the individuals married but the people they surround themselves with. Sometimes it could be spiritual, often it has something to do with time, funny enough time makes a mockery of us all. My advice to couples married or those thinking of marriage is to take every advice at face value. Your marriage is what you make of it and at the end of the day your happiness is all that matters.

eleojo23:

Alright sir. Thank you. I wish you and your wife all the happiness you can get. Season's greetings.

u ar welcom

ihedinobi2:

Madam manhood, masculinity = pride.

I never knew

Must keep up with the times then.

Pride is definitely different from healthy self esteem except you mean it in another context like 'the pride of parents are successful kids' etc

@women = weakness of men; You'al should choose women that appreciate it

I am amused when I read NL's version of husband's love. When a man loves... he does with everything and he is selfless that's why a woman submits for balance.

He puts her first, she puts him first and they are a big happy family

Good morning.

How is Christmas prep going?

bukatyne:


Men and pride

Pride goeth before a fall

Thank you o. Men who never let go of their pride make more mistakes hence the fall. In marriage, you must learn to put aside pride.

bukatyne:


I never knew

Must keep up with the times then.

Pride is definitely different from healthy self esteem except you mean it in another context like 'the pride of parents are successful kids etc'

@women = weakness of men; You'al should choose women that appreciate it

I am amused when I read NL's version of husband's love. When a man loves... he does with everything and he is selfless that's why a woman submits for balance.

He puts her first, she puts him first and they are a big happy family

Good morning.

How is Christmas prep going?

I don't subscribe to Nairaland's ideas of love. I believe completely that love is an utter thing. You cannot be with someone you're unready to be completely nakëd with. Love is crazy like that: deliberately handing people ammunition to kill you with and telling them just where to use them.

Still, if you keep meeting women who take your deliberate nakédness to them as an opportunity to bend you to their will you steadily acquire the idea that it is not a good thing to be so vulnerable toward the woman you love.

As for pride, it really is another word for daring (or the often-improperly used "confidence". A man is a man because he is a leader. The definition of leadership is the readiness to go ahead and take on the road first. A man without pride - that sense of daring, that sense of responsibility - is a man without his manhood.

Sophyrocks:


Thank you o. Men who never let go of their pride make more mistakes hence the fall. In marriage, you must learn to put aside pride.

See my response to bukatyne.

ihedinobi2:

See my response to bukatyne.

And if you are a christian, you would remember the bible quote bukatyne rephrased. An example of a very proud man in the bible was King pharoah. We all know how his pride led to his fall. Allowing pride get in the way in all your decisions will lead to failure and could portray you to be insecure/less confident. And i can confidently tell you that defining manhood to be pride is false. Not all men are proud. The word you should use is confidence. Pride is an overexaggerated form of confidence, some steps ahead. It stems from taking yourself too seriously. I can be confident but not proud. People tend to mistake confience for pride.

ihedinobi2:

I don't subscribe to Nairaland's ideas of love. I believe completely that love is an utter thing. You cannot be with someone you're unready to be completely nakëd with. Love is crazy like that: deliberately handing people ammunition to kill you with and telling them just where to use them.

Still, if you keep meeting women who take your deliberate nakédness to them as an opportunity to bend you to their will you steadily acquire the idea that it is not a good thing to be so vulnerable toward the woman you love.

As for pride, it really is another word for daring (or the often-improperly used "confidence". A man is a man because he is a leader. The definition of leadership is the readiness to go ahead and take on the road first. A man without pride - that sense of daring, that sense of responsibility - is a man without his manhood.

Aman is a man because he is a leader?

I don't get you; are you saying women are not leaders?

@women : I do not understand the stooping to conquer proverb; why do you want to conquer somebody? Well na night school I go.

Nigerian women are made for Nigerian men. Look for an international one. They are plenty on NL; translate men's loving gestures to being women wrappers: the guys that suit them kwa are mean again

Then again, na naija way. Before I started working I usually help my younger ones wash their clothes on saturdays with that of my elders so they can have time to rest and do other minimal chores. When they started skoi skoi, I stopped sharp sharp. It must be in the air we breathe.

I have prayed this prayer before: God will help you to meet a woman who will know what love really means and apreciate it.

Sophyrocks:


And if you are a christian, you would remember the bible quote bukatyne rephrased. An example of a very proud man in the bible was King pharoah. We all know how his pride led to his fall. Allowing pride get in the way in all your decisions will lead to failure and could portray you to be insecure/less confident. And i can confidently tell you that defining manhood to be pride is false. Not all men are proud. The word you should use is confidence. Pride is an overexaggerated form of confidence, some steps ahead. It stems from taking yourself too seriously. I can be confident but not proud. People tend to mistake confience for pride.

It seems his dictionary is unique

We have started derailing the thread o...

On second thoughts, we might be on track

eleojo23:

Alright sir. Thank you. I wish you and your wife all the happiness you can get. Season's greetings.

amen tnx.

Alot of people have said alot but my own lil two kobo: know and understand your OWN spouse and relationship. Try not to model your marriage or relationship based on other people's relationships or experiences especially as we are all individuals.Even your parent's marriage (no matter how blissful or terrible) will not be the same as yours so know your spouse.What my husband sees as a big deal might be nothing to another man and what my husband sees as nothing might be a big deal to that other man.Ditto wives.

damiso:
Alot of people have said alot but my own lil two kobo: know and understand your OWN spouse and relationship. Try not to model your marriage or relationship based on other people's relationships or experiences especially as we are all individuals.Even your parent's marriage (no matter how blissful or terrible) will not be the same as yours so know your spouse.What my husband sees as a big deal might be nothing to another man and what my husband sees as nothing might be a big deal to that other man.Ditto wives.

So true...understanding your partner at every point in time is crucial.

Make i sleep 1st,i will read later

thanks for that important article

Sophyrocks:


And if you are a christian, you would remember the bible quote bukatyne rephrased. An example of a very proud man in the bible was King pharoah. We all know how his pride led to his fall. Allowing pride get in the way in all your decisions will lead to failure and could portray you to be insecure/less confident. And i can confidently tell you that defining manhood to be pride is false. Not all men are proud. The word you should use is confidence. Pride is an overexaggerated form of confidence, some steps ahead. It stems from taking yourself too seriously. I can be confident but not proud. People tend to mistake confience for pride.

I am and I know the scripture she quoted. I also know that it has nothing whatever to do with what I said.

I can just as easily tell you that the word you want is arrogance not pride. But I'm sure you know that there are many words that have more than one meaning. Pride is one of them. Arrogance is one meaning. And it wasn't the meaning that I had in mind when I introduced the word into these discussions.

The other meaning is not even exactly confidence. It is more responsibility than anything else. When you hear somebody say, "I cannot be here, alive and this is happening. I can't let that continue when I can do something about it", that is pride. It is an assumption of responsibility because one dares to believe that they can beat odds or situations that go against their desires.

That is the meaning that I meant. And when a man denudes himself for a woman, he exposes even the vulnerable parts of him that oppose his daring to go up against odds. That means that she can turn him against himself. And when a man experiences that enough times he stops thinking that it's a good idea to open himself up that much to a woman. So to save his sense of courageous responsibility, he stops sharing his feelings, his fears, etc. And assumes that aspect of a steady, reliable but uncaring rock that frustrates women so much in relationships.

bukatyne:


Aman is a man because he is a leader?

I don't get you; are you saying women are not leaders?

@women : I do not understand the stooping to conquer proverb; why do you want to conquer somebody? Well na night school I go.

Nigerian women are made for Nigerian men. Look for an international one. They are plenty on NL; translate men's loving gestures to being women wrappers: the guys that suit them kwa are mean again

Then again, na naija way. Before I started working I usually help my younger ones wash their clothes on saturdays with that of my elders so they can have time to rest and do other minimal chores. When they started skoi skoi, I stopped sharp sharp. It must be in the air we breathe.

I have prayed this prayer before: God will help you to meet a woman who will know what love really means and apreciate it.

Yes, the definition of masculinity is leadership.

I said nothing about women but now I will: is a co-pilot or a chief officer or an XO or a prime minister a leader? Who do they lead?

I don't think I said anything here about stooping to conquer. Regardless, it's an idiom, like when you say "it rained cats and dogs". It means that someone gains their desire by humbling (or submitting) themselves to something or someone.

I thank you for your kind prayer and here's an amen to it. There are things that I don't feel I can compromise on. They include marriage. I have said before that if I don't find someone I can trust with the purpose of my existence I won't bother with getting married. The trouble is just not worth it.

And I don't quite make blanket statements about peoples of the world. To me, Nigerian women are practically the same as Americans or Chinese or Filippinas. The difference I would expect will come from the specific situations of the economy in each place. For instance, Nigerian women like money? As far as I know, all women like ease and comfort. What I am after is one who knows how to maintain it when she gets it and I have seen no reason to believe that Nigerian women work less hard at maintaining it than any other nation. Women I've been interested in have been responsible and hardworking. And they were all Nigerians.

The same way, I don't doubt that there's a woman that I can open up to and she won't walk all over my inner strength and lay it to waste. I just don't imagine that she's any easier to find in Nigeria than anywhere else.

Penboy:
Please, am i free to save this page for future reference?

I think it will be easier to buy the book

chubbypearl:
I think it will be easier to buy the book

yeah.. That's true.

Good write-up. It's a nice thing bringing back the sweet memory of Myles Monroe.



R.I.P to the great man of God.

ihedinobi2:

Yes, the definition of masculinity is leadership.

I said nothing about women but now I will: is a co-pilot or a chief officer or an XO or a prime minister a leader? Who do they lead?

I don't think I said anything here about stooping to conquer. Regardless, it's an idiom, like when you say "it rained cats and dogs". It means that someone gains their desire by humbling (or submitting) themselves to something or someone.

I thank you for your kind prayer and here's an amen to it. There are things that I don't feel I can compromise on. They include marriage. I have said before that if I don't find someone I can trust with the purpose of my existence I won't bother with getting married. The trouble is just not worth it.

And I don't quite make blanket statements about peoples of the world. To me, Nigerian women are practically the same as Americans or Chinese or Filippinas. The difference I would expect will come from the specific situations of the economy in each place. For instance, Nigerian women like money? As far as I know, all women like ease and comfort. What I am after is one who knows how to maintain it when she gets it and I have seen no reason to believe that Nigerian women work less hard at maintaining it than any other nation. Women I've been interested in have been responsible and hardworking. And they were all Nigerians.

The same way, I don't doubt that there's a woman that I can open up to and she won't walk all over my inner strength and lay it to waste. I just don't imagine that she's any easier to find in Nigeria than anywhere else.

As usual, we do not understand each other

This post of yours just picked words from mine and went on...

Margret Thacther must have been a copilot so also Dora or Ngozi. Hmm.... my CEO is also a copilot same with my direct HOD or they are men.

Or perhaps I should ask if you have never seen female bosses before.

Again, not everyone can be on top but everyone can display leadership qualities and no sir, it is not a d.ick that is restricted to men only.

Nehemiah was the King's cupbearer before he decided to rebuid Jerusalem; Daniel was a slave boy while he displayed leadership and still he died, he never was an overall boss. David was a shepherd boy when he killed Goliat. Abigail, Tabitha, John Mark's mother, Deborah etc. were examples of people who led while only two were actual overall leaders (Debby et David)

bukatyne:


As usual, we do not understand each other

This post of yours just picked words from mine and went on...

Margret Thacther must have been a copilot so also Dora or Ngozi. Hmm.... my CEO is also a copilot same with my direct HOD or they are men.

Or perhaps I should ask if you have never seen female bosses before.

Again, not everyone can be on top but everyone can display leadership qualities and no sir, it is not a d.ick that is restricted to men only.

Nehemiah was the King's cupbearer before he decided to rebuid Jerusalem; Daniel was a slave boy while he displayed leadership and still he died, he never was an overall boss. David was a shepherd boy when he killed Goliat. Abigail, Tabitha, John Mark's mother, Deborah etc. were examples of people who led while only two were actual overall leaders (Debby et David)

I said that leadership is taking responsibility to go ahead and secure the road for those coming after, remember?

ihedinobi2:

I said that leadership is taking responsibility to go ahead and secure the road for those coming after, remember?

You said leadership is what makes a man manly and women = copilot aren't leaders.

If you defined the above, why bring women/men into it?

Happy Sunday

bukatyne:

You said leadership is what makes a man manly and women = copilot aren't leaders.

If you defined the above, why bring women/men into it?

Happy Sunday

I defined leadership clearly. I also said that it is the defining quality of manhood. Because, clearly, the discussion here was about the relationship between men and women.

Also did I indeed say that women aren't leaders?

Happy Sunday to you too.

ihedinobi2:

I defined leadership clearly. I also said that it is the defining quality of manhood. Because, clearly, the discussion here was about the relationship between men and women.

Also did I indeed say that women aren't leaders?

Happy Sunday to you too.

I might need to change my glasses because there was no such definition in any of your posts.

And I thought we were discussing husbands and wives?

You brought the copilot thingy not leaders. So who are the copilots you were referring to?

Saying manh.ood = leadership implies womanhood not equal leadership else you are saying man.hood = womanh.ood

Remember when we were in sec school; you and moi having fracas and sophy catwalks in and you say... 'welcome better person' What does that mean?

bukatyne:


I might need to change my glasses because there was no such definition in any of your posts.

And I thought we were discussing husbands and wives?

You brought the copilot thingy not leaders. So who are the copilots you were referring to?

Saying manh.ood = leadership implies womanhood not equal leadership else you are saying man.hood = womanh.ood

Remember when we were in sec school; you and moi having fracas and sophy catwalks in and you say... 'welcome better person' What does that mean?

www.nairaland.com/2045999/little-things-determine-success-marriage/2#29044102

That post was where I gave a definition for leadership. It was also where I said that masculinity/manhood is defined by leadership.

Yes, we are. I said as much. It is because we're discussing husbands and wives that I have kept speaking the way I have been. Throwing in CEOs and all that distracted from that. Outside the home, the dynamics change a bit and it becomes a slightly different discussion.

I brought it in. As a question, remember? I asked you if co-pilots, XOs, etc are leaders. And I asked whom they lead.

You know how you and I love to look at these things through Christian ideology. So let's do that now. Does the Bible say that woman is the head of the man? Or was it the other way around?

I said that? I don't remember. Where was that?

ihedinobi2:

www.nairaland.com/2045999/little-things-determine-success-marriage/2#29044102

That post was where I gave a definition for leadership. It was also where I said that masculinity/manhood is defined by leadership.

Yes, we are. I said as much. It is because we're discussing husbands and wives that I have kept speaking the way I have been. Throwing in CEOs and all that distracted from that. Outside the home, the dynamics change a bit and it becomes a slightly different discussion.

I brought it in. As a question, remember? I asked you if co-pilots, XOs, etc are leaders. And I asked whom they lead.

You know how you and I love to look at these things through Christian ideology. So let's do that now. Does the Bible say that woman is the head of the man? Or was it the other way around?

I said that? I don't remember. Where was that?

Saying leadership is the definition of husbandhood is different from leadership is the definition of manhood.

Copilots and co can exhibit leadership qualities if they have it. A Prov 31 wife is a leader without being the head of her home.

bukatyne:


Saying leadership is the definition of husbandhood is different from leadership is the definition of manhood.

Copilots and co can exhibit leadership qualities if they have it. A Prov 31 wife is a leader without being the head of her home.

I said that it is the defining quality of manhood. I was not unsure of what I was saying, bukatyne. I said what I said in the context of the discussion but I'm willing to deal with an expansion right now.

Granted, there are women CEOs and other such positions, but that is not a good argument to confound my claim. The reason is that mimicry does not a chameleon a flower make. A woman either has to behave like a man to lead or else she does not. Do you disagree with that?

I did not ask if they CAN exhibit leadership qualities. I asked if they ARE leaders or not. Is it the definition of a co-pilot that they lead? Or of an XO? Or of a wingman?

Who does the Proverbs 31 woman lead?

ihedinobi2:

I said that it is the defining quality of manhood. I was not unsure of what I was saying, bukatyne. I said what I said in the context of the discussion but I'm willing to deal with an expansion right now.

Granted, there are women CEOs and other such positions, but that is not a good argument to confound my claim. The reason is that mimicry does not a chameleon a flower make. A woman either has to behave like a man to lead or else she does not. Do you disagree with that?

I did not ask if they CAN exhibit leadership qualities. I asked if they ARE leaders or not. Is it the definition of a co-pilot that they lead? Or of an XO? Or of a wingman?

Who does the Proverbs 31 woman lead?

I disagree 100%. A woman doesnot have to 'behave' like a man to be a leader; you are even assuming that all men behave alike in leadership. Leadership qualities is not gender specific. She leads her kids and other members of her family

See the definition of a leader:

/ˈliːdə/
noun
noun: leader; plural noun: leaders
1. the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.

"the leader of a protest group"

synonyms: chief, head, principal, boss; commander, captain; figurehead, controller, superior, kingpin, headman, mover and shaker; chairman, chairwoman, chairperson, chair, convener, moderator; director, managing director, MD, manager, superintendent, supervisor, overseer, administrator, employer, master, mistress, foreman; president, premier, governor; ruler, monarch, king, queen, sovereign, emperor, tsar, prince, princess, lord, lord and master; elder, patriarch; guru, mentor, authority;

informal: boss man, skipper, gaffer, guv'nor, top dog, number one, big cheese, big noise, bigwig, big shot;

"the leader of the Democratic Party"

antonyms: follower, supporter

• British

a member of the government officially responsible for initiating business in Parliament.

noun: Leader of the House; plural noun: Leaders of the House

• the person or team that is winning a sporting competition at a particular time.

"Nora was up among the leaders"

• an organization or company that is the most advanced or successful in a particular area.

"a leader in the use of video conferencing"

synonyms: pioneer, front runner, innovator, trailblazer, pathfinder, groundbreaker, trendsetter, leading light, guiding light, torch-bearer, pacemaker, originator, initiator, developer, discoverer, founder, architect;

formalneoteric

"a world leader in the use of video conferencing"

The first definition is the useful one in this context: Once 1 or people report to you, you definitely lead them.

bukatyne:


I disagree 100%. A woman doesnot have to 'behave' like a man to be a leader; you are even assuming that all men behave alike in leadership. Leadership qualities is not gender specific. She leads her kids and other members of her family

See the definition of a leader:

/ˈliːdə/
noun
noun: leader; plural noun: leaders
1. the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.

"the leader of a protest group"

synonyms: chief, head, principal, boss; commander, captain; figurehead, controller, superior, kingpin, headman, mover and shaker; chairman, chairwoman, chairperson, chair, convener, moderator; director, managing director, MD, manager, superintendent, supervisor, overseer, administrator, employer, master, mistress, foreman; president, premier, governor; ruler, monarch, king, queen, sovereign, emperor, tsar, prince, princess, lord, lord and master; elder, patriarch; guru, mentor, authority;

informal: boss man, skipper, gaffer, guv'nor, top dog, number one, big cheese, big noise, bigwig, big shot;

"the leader of the Democratic Party"

antonyms: follower, supporter

• British

a member of the government officially responsible for initiating business in Parliament.

noun: Leader of the House; plural noun: Leaders of the House

• the person or team that is winning a sporting competition at a particular time.

"Nora was up among the leaders"

• an organization or company that is the most advanced or successful in a particular area.

"a leader in the use of video conferencing"

synonyms: pioneer, front runner, innovator, trailblazer, pathfinder, groundbreaker, trendsetter, leading light, guiding light, torch-bearer, pacemaker, originator, initiator, developer, discoverer, founder, architect;

formalneoteric

"a world leader in the use of video conferencing"

The first definition is the useful one in this context: Once 1 or people report to you, you definitely lead them.

Lol. Of course you do. I didn't ask because I thought you might agree.

Are you just saying that? Or is there a reason you think that leadership is not gender-specific? Women who occupy positions of organizational leadership tend to have to sacrifice that forgiving, accommodating approach that women uniquely have to situations of conflict or potential conflict. Men are far more confrontational than women. They challenge and accept challenges. They strike compromises only when it appears to benefit the things they are protecting. Men do not necessarily turn from conflict because it is unpleasant. Can you say that that is natural to women? Do we have to go hunting statistics and scientific studies too to demonstrate the truth of an obvious fact?

I don't get this "behave alike" thing. If leadership is itself a behavior, an attitude, in how many different ways can anyone "behave" this one "behavior"?

Who are the other members of the family that women lead? I'd like to be clear on that.

I don't think that we had any disagreements on the definition of leadership. However, reporting to someone does not necessarily make them a leader. Common sense says that a leader is just that person in front meeting the challenge and the opposition first and carving out a path for those coming after.

ihedinobi2:

Lol. Of course you do. I didn't ask because I thought you might agree.

Are you just saying that? Or is there a reason you think that leadership is not gender-specific? Women who occupy positions of organizational leadership tend to have to sacrifice that forgiving, accommodating approach that women uniquely have to situations of conflict or potential conflict. Men are far more confrontational than women. They challenge and accept challenges. They strike compromises only when it appears to benefit the things they are protecting. Men do not necessarily turn from conflict because it is unpleasant. Can you say that that is natural to women?

Do we have to go hunting statistics and scientific studies too to demonstrate the truth of an obvious fact?

I don't get this "behave alike" thing. If leadership is itself a behavior, an attitude, in how many different ways can anyone "behave" this one "behavior"?

Who are the other members of the family that women lead? I'd like to be clear on that.

I don't think that we had any disagreements on the definition of leadership. However, reporting to someone does not necessarily make them a leader. Common sense says that a leader is just that person in front meeting the challenge and the opposition first and carving out a path for those coming after.

@bolded: I laugh is Spanish

The earlier you realize that either gender can exhibit certain characteristics, the better for you

Women are naturally forgiving bla bla bla. Can you give examples?

Don't the children report to the mother? Are the maids/staff and others not accountable to be mother? Except you mean to say that only CEOs are leaders i.e. CFO, CTO, COO, etc. are not leaders.

This discussion is getting windy.

You believe women cannot be/ are not leaders. Ok then. (all these back and forth really changes nothing )

Compliments of the season