An2elect2:


How can your "good leader" teach you what only the holy spirit can?

while I was in school, my leader use to take us to a very remote place on campus to go pray

sometimes from 9pm, 12am

then we use to have early morning prayers

Then all night prayer meeting(not at church level) but At cell level

Then schedule fasting program

Overtime these things became part of me, then she was transferred off campus, I could now do these things on my own

Imagine a Christian who doesn't have such foundation with a leader guiding them


on the issue of giving, then If I don't give my offering because I didn't have, I used to feel bad then I will console myself by saying God will understand

But she taught me otherwise that you plan for ur offering, that way u will always have to give

She made me see that I don't give excuses when it comes to transport fare or recharge card money or hairdo money because I made plans for them, I was taught that u plan for it by setting it aside

It's not on service day u start looking for change or offering money cos you might have spend it during the week

She taught me how to give at my level according to how God has blessed me. Imagine a lady who bought a weavon of N30,000, phone of N40,000 etc hope u get the picture

Then comes offering & she is giving God N100, it's not commensurate with her level

If I can spend huge amount on fashion, leisure, relationship then I should spend a comensurate amount on God

On envagelism, we had scheduled times, where she takes us out to go on envagelism, from there I was guided, my confidence was built

I can go on & on, hope you get the picture of how I was taught by my "good leader" & how the Holy Spirit wasn't downplayed in any way

Gombs, maybe u can throw more light

PS:the Holy Spirit is a master communicator/teacher, why then do u need to go for courses/training programs on how to become more productive at work

Why do we go to school to learn about a trade or profession or craft

Is it that the Holy Spirit can't teach us??

Cuote author=Gombs wrote=] Are you in Germany as of now or Nigeria [/quote]
Nope i am in other country not in Germany or Nigeria what i do not wish to say publically. I have visited several times Germany as i am partly far away german from my mother side.

Gombs wrote=:
I may not completely understand what you mean by 'Pastor Centered' ministry, but I know God has always led his folks by one man, or Shepherd and flock. Read all through the NT and OT.
Ephesians 4:11-14 DOES NOT in any way negate what you're trying to say it does. It is very possible to function in these diverse offices. Paul was a pastor, a teacher, an Apostles, an evangelist. Timothy was a pastor and an evangelist. It would be error to think God only wants us to function in one.

Pastor centered ministry or church is this kind of church or ministry where office of pastor is layed above everything else. CE is typical pastor centered ministry.

Gombs wrote=:
You're a bit wrong here. You have to have a local assembly where you can function. You must have a spiritual head as Paul wrote and taught. You can build the body of Christ from where you are, if you function by the Spirit.
You're a ROR translator too? My goodness? You mail RORs? You're already doing much as it were. You're changing lives by what you do. Be faithful and diligent, and you will go places.

Well it is complicated to explain to you about it. Basically yes in general church is important and i have it now this other church in america because person with prophetic calling can not function perfectly under pastoral gift as pastor is not designed for being over prophetic ppl in apostolical way but needs apostolic covering to get into fullness.
I have been in pastoral church and i know how it hinders prophetic development. After i got aligned with that american apostolic church.
I went to CE in nov 2013 to check it out what it is without planning to become member and then later they offered thst if someone wants to translate ror and i decided to try it. and then when i went to Bremen to check out Ps Stanley I had learned that my boyfriend is engaged with someone else. I was shocked as it had been long term friendship. So later i founded a team so that one translates and other reads thru before sending away final version.
As here in my country have fans of ror in all around country so every month it goes out and also ror goes into prison too here. and yes it is exciting to listen when i hear stories from countryside ppl how ror had gone hand by hand. But still it is beginning to getting too much.

deborah777:


I went to CE in nov 2013 to check it out what it is without planning to become member and then later they offered thst if someone wants to translate ror and i decided to try it. and then when i went to Bremen to check out Ps Stanley I had learned that my boyfriend is engaged with someone else. I was shocked as it had been long term friendship. So later i founded a team so that one translates and other reads thru before sending away final version.
As here in my country have fans of ror in all around country so every month it goes out and also ror goes into prison too here. and yes it is exciting to listen when i hear stories from countryside ppl how ror had gone hand by hand. But still it is beginning to getting too much.

Wow...a nice story you've got here. I am inspired. However, i cannot understand the last part of your sentence....mind explaining?How much is too much? My story is still coming up....what language do you want to translate to...i am so interested in this

Gombs:


Wow...a nice story you've got here. I am inspired. However, i cannot understand the last part of your sentence....mind explaining?How much is too much? My story is still coming up....what language do you want to translate to...i am so interested in this

All those things needed to do in church and related to that: webmastering,fb page, ror translation reviewing,ror mailing, services in church to help my team member who is younger in christ than me - i am thinking of continuing the translation of foundational school material in future maybe. I have secular job too and hobbies etc. At least in may cordinator will be back hopefully and then again i have to try to teach him to do some stuff.
If i translate i translate only those stories partly who have come out from ce into my mother language maybe but i am not sure yet if it matters as here is now so called members very few, in the first year was one committed visitor and me now there is four ppl and me.

Gombs post=:
Forget what folks post here, CE has no hidden doctrine...

Well in ce there seems to be hidden teachings taught by the mog ps Chris. One guy crossman9 i think listed most of it. What i remember from it there is something about obeying, that isaac is not abraham promised son, thst there is no mediation in NT and then this masburation topic that borders me most......there was more but i do not remember all.
In ce faith ststement everything is fine but in hidden there is lot of strange teachings or redefinements like winsomeX says.

[quote author=deborah777 post=33321846]

Well in ce there seems to be hidden teachings taught by the mog ps Chris. One guy crossman9 i think listed most of it.

Crossman 9? Haaahhahahahahahahahahahahhaha... He's still learning compared to what others have alleged Pastor Chris taught. A good example is Winsomex aka drummaboy. Olaadegu too... In fact a lot had insinuated one thing or the other. But ask, how far has these guys gone? What have they done with the gospel?

What i remember from it there is something about obeying, that isaac is not abraham promised son, thst there is no mediation in NT and then this masburation topic that borders me most......there was more but i do not remember all.

Isn't it funny how these allegations sound? These were mere allegations by those who have never heard pastor Chris preach. But down the line, Pastor Chris kept going up... And they, down.

In ce faith ststement everything is fine but in hidden there is lot of strange teachings or redefinements like winsomeX says.

Winsomex has said alot

1. He said Jesus was poor
2. Jesus was at a time ill
3.Christianity started at the cross, and not the resurrection.
4. Speaking in tongues of today is gibberish
5. There's no such thing as the God kind of faith
6. Jesus did not decend to hell
Etc

Take him seriously as a case study, but not what he writes.

Gombs post=:
.
Isn't it funny how these allegations sound? These were mere allegations by those who have never heard pastor Chris preach. But down the line, Pastor Chris kept going up... And they, down.

Well this teaching that in NT we should not obey or something i have heard myself somewhere from dvd of Ps.Chris. Yes crossman9 seemed bit paranoid when i talked personally but he is done good job for those ppl like who have not heard all ce material and wants to know background information of what ps Chris really teaches.

Kech simons writes in his note on fb: It had been months since I parted ways with the Roman Catholic Church of Mary. And the wounds I sustained from years of spiritual abuse in that affair had almost healed. There remained no trace of withdrawal symptoms, but some emotional scars. And I'd say I had regained full control of my psyche and spirituality.

Moreover, by virtue of my daily devotion to Bible reading and meditation, I had noticed a paradigm shift in not only my personal affinity with God, but also in my consciousness about life. And it was all getting better by each day. Noble virtues such as love, faith, patience, perseverance and humility had all hatched out in my heart, and were now breeding across every facet of my personality like a cancer growth. But in spite of it all, I was every now and then haunted by some sense of vacuum and incompleteness. I felt less a Christian. And I yearned for a platform to help speed up the growth of my new found spirituality. Only a Bible-based church of Christ would fix all these, I thought. And before long, I had decided to anchor my soul back to a church.

That was early 2003 - a period when the city of Lagos was at the peak of a siege by different formations of pentecostal brands. Every major warehouse was now occupied by these prosperity-mongers, and every wall fence on major roads bore an array of posters and banners advertising various forms of crusades and incredible miracles. About a score of them had already invaded the airwaves, seizing control of prime times of every radio and TV stations. Major stadiums and open fields had fallen to the superior fire power of their financial war chest. To say the least, only a few individuals would resist the motivating sermons, signs and wonders, and club-like songs that were in the menu of their services. And I was soon seduced to climb the bandwagon.


Christ Embassy would be my first port of call, chiefly for its proximity to my base, and the glamour of their popular telecast 'Atmosphere For Miracle'. Besides, the church appeared the most trendy and youth-friendly among the whole lot. Its alluring catch phrase - 'giving your life a meaning' emitted a high wave of curiosity value, and dangled at my gnawing sense of vacuum some antidote of sort. And their Western-accented senior pastor, Chris Oyakhilome, charmingly gave out an image of a thoroughbred man of God. But my mind would soon rupture to find out the sham that lay beneath the whole carefully packaged gimmick.


I would join the church formally around April 2003, and attend services at the church's headquarters then at the Camp ground (right beside the governor's office Alausa Ikeja Lagos). It was the senior pastor's major base, and expectedly the nerve center of the church's major operations. I would see and hear directly from him, and even stalk him afterwards. Somehow too, I was able to within months chum around some of the church leaders, rubbing elbows with some of the workers and choir members. All these would help me into the church's real complexion in no time.

It's important to note though that I had sincerely set out to firmly pitch in with the Church on the conjecture it was a true church of Christ. Even as the church was then neck deep in many a controversy especially as regards the senior pastor's fraternity with TB Joshua, I had never gone in with the intention to probe or size it up. But unfortunately, my spiritual compass would keep pointing me to what the church was, and still is - the Christ embassy church of Chris Oyakhilome and family, nay a business center.

Anyway, my first day at the church was ironically the precursor to my last. Right at the entrance of the church building were some large portraits of Chris Oyakhilome, and that of his wife. And on the gigantic photographs were some inscriptions that would poke at the bluntest of all spiritual sensibilities - 'Father, we love you!', 'what would we have been without you pastor?'. And if I was to think such bizarre flaw was only an aberration, I was in for a rude awakening.

I had barely gone in to take my seat, and to my notice came a creepy culture of indecency and impunity within the congregation. The ladies, most of whom were young, beautiful and single, had come adorning apparels so provocative and x-rated that one could easily mistake the service for some rock concert or an orgy party. In fact, I could literally see nude bodies only scantily covered for fashion sake. And about half the guys too made the scene in some weird costumes and hairdos only fit for pop musical videos or clown plays. I would eventually play blind, and soon reconcile with the new reality, but there were to be more spine-chillers per minute billing.

The service soon began with a prayer session. And to lead the congregation through the prayer points was a prayer coordinator standing at the pulpit. And we were made to pray so feverishly. Remarkably however, of about eight prayer points that were raised, 7 of them was all about the senior pastor and the church. The first was for his safety, and the second was that he got more anointed. The 3rd was that his ministry would grow in leaps and bounds, and the 4th that more members be added to the church. We were only allowed few seconds to whisper to God our needs, and end came the prayers. My eyebrows couldn't help but shrink in discomfort.


Next after prayers was a frenzy session of 'praise and worship', trailed by a soulful rendition of a melodious tune by the choir. It was, I must admit, as blistering and entertaining as it could get. In fact, a floodgate of hysteria would prevail and charge the whole ambience as a result. And shortly afterwards came the Rhapsody of Reality time - a moment when a portion of the senior pastor's daily devotional was to be read. A sycophant image would read out the sermon of the day from the pamphlet, and pontificate therefrom, in such a manner that would leave the author (the pastor) idolized, and the whole congregation stupefied. He openly sang to the skies the praises of the pastor, and duly admonished us to hearken to him. If I had thought Christ only I should prowl after, now came a replacement - Chris Oyakhilome PHD.


No sooner, a big pouch meant for offering would find its way to my presence, and I did give as little as I could muster. And while the pouch hovered around, a little exhortation on the significance of giving abundantly to God emitted from the loud speakers, alongside some endearing choruses. In matter of seconds, we would be mesmerized by some spell-binding video clips of the pastor's 'healing miracles'. We watched in awe as the lame walked, and the dumb spoke. And there were some powerful testimonies and adulation from a few individuals.


By now, the tempo of the whole delirium was boiling over. And suddenly, a thunderous yell ensued in crescendo, enveloping the whole atmosphere like a tsunami. It would last for about 3 minutes as everyone had stood up and played an imperfect Mexican wave. Some cried, yelled and screamed, and others jumped so convulsively as though they had won a huge lottery. I myself was a bit lost, as I had thought some popular European football club had just taken the trophy of the champion's league. But Alas, it was the Czar himself, Chris Oyakhilome that was being ushered in. He had appeared from behind the stage in an olympian glory adorning an angelic white suite, obviously lapping up the whole unalloyed hero-worship. In fact, I still doubt if Dictator Jong-un of North Korean could command such a worship from his enslaved subjects. It was about the purest form of human worship I had ever seen, the type of veneration only fit for the Immortal. But to my amazement, the 'man of God' grinned and soaked it all in while it lasted. For his security were some stern looking men who had already formed a circumference of guard around him. And we were ordered to be seated by him within minutes.


He would start off on a casual note, and oscillate between the vainglorious and mundane. Although he appeared to have a way of percolating those yarns in twisted Biblical injunctions. In some ways too, he sounded a bit plausible. But I would soon figure out he had no definite theme he had intended to dwell on. To my surprise however, everything that came out of his mouth elicited some screams and moans from the congregation. He was periodically interjected with choruses such as 'Amen', 'preach on pastor', 'glory', 'awesome'. In fact, the least of all the banal statements he uttered were all applauded to. And to my horror, some folks would leave their seats to drop at his feet some money and objects of choice, (an act I had thought before then was only permissible at local Afro juju concerts.)

Anyway, he would soon wind up his homily with another call for offering. And this time, the whole congregation would troop out to 'give generously to God'. To aid mass compliance was a cocktail of local and international electrifying songs played live by the church musicians. And everyone including the pastor danced to them. It was a prophetic dance I was made to believe. And soon afterwards came some announcements. The first time attendees were to be welcomed with some soulful song, and ordered to relocate to a particular section of the auditorium to be received specially. Being a first timer, I heeded and joined the procession towards the reception arena.


I must admit we were warmly received by a handful of the church assistants. We were then each given a bag that contained some copies of Rhapsody of reality, and 2 other books written by Chris Oyakhilome. Briefed a little about the church's wondrous mission, we were told the pastor himself would like to welcome us specially on the coming Wednesday by 3 pm. And on that note, we were dismissed. I hurried back home immediately, to reflect on the whole dramatic experience. For some reasons too, I would love to attend the meeting with the pastor.

On that fateful Wednesday, I was already at the venue by 2 pm, an hour ahead of the scheduled time. But some two and half hours would pass before I could see about a dozen of fellows converging towards a section of the venue obviously for the fateful meeting. I would later find out that half of them were actually church representatives feigning first time attendants. The monkey meeting would soon begin and end within minutes with no sign of Chris Oyakhilome within the vicinity. Nothing meaningful we discussed, save for some shallow prayers. And as I sat mulling over the whole drama in disappointment, the meeting coordinator quickly dove-tailed into sermons about 'giving', and ordered from us our offering, as in his words, 'no one should appear before the Lord empty-handed'. That came like an insult to an injury. But it would serve to strike home the true objectives of the church. I reluctantly handed to them the little I had on me, and left the meeting venue feeling duped, short-changed and lied to. And that was to spark the flame that consumed my goodwill for the church ab initio.


Well, I would still keep up with the phony church for another 8 months irrespective of the many red flags I had seen. Each day would throw up new dramas and new dimensions to the whole absurdities, but I somehow resolved to play blind to it all. I would only stay put in the delusion that my spiritual life would be better for it eventually. But I cringed to discover much later how short-sighted I was to have ignored those early warning signs, as the very spirituality I had tried to nurture would lose so much blood, and be hospitalized for my protracted stay in the church.

Now, within months, the major objectives of the church had become clearer to me, just as my sense of discontent had gelled. I would discern the thrust of the church's doctrines and policies to be money generation, membership growth, and branch expansions. These I was able to deduce from the church's disproportionate emphasis on 'giving' & 'seed sowing', 'soul winning', and church attendance. Of course 'giving' and 'seed sowing' simply denote donating money and other precious resources to the church. And 'soul winning' meant bringing people to church, or giving out church's literature to them. No other virtues were half as noble, and the church harped so much on that. Many a times, in fact, we were literally threatened of dire consequences for not 'giving' generously enough, and every misfortune we faced was deemed a testament to our disobedience. Money was never meant to be kept in the bank or invested, but to be brought to the church, Chris Oyakhilome once enthused. And there were many delusive benefits for the various types of 'partnership' and 'seeds' in the church. I would later trace to this devious scheme the fact that most of the church members were forever broke. For it appeared everyone found happiness in trading their money and resources for the many illusions the church sold. And I was no exception.


But then, nothing tugged my heartstrings more than the discovery of the brazen falsehood, illusions and deceptions that the church was founded on. I nosed out that the whole of Oyakhilome's miracles and people's testimonies, though plausible, were mere ostentatious demonstrations, and publicity-oriented, rather than being altruistic acts. And I discovered the whole promises of prosperity and meaningful life to be nothing but a charade, as majority of the members actually led a pitiable existence beneath the whole facade of glamour. Members were safely locked in some fool's paradise with various forms of subterfuge. And the church Establishment ensured the world saw little of these as every material that was put out to the public was thoroughly censored, and doctored to create fantasies.


Moreover, I flinched to discover the ignoble attributes that belied the pious character named Oyakhilome. Frankly speaking, no man on earth could be as narcissistic and materialistic, prodigal and selfish, machiavellian and ruthless as he. As at 2003, he would never ride on the same car beyond a week. And he appeared to have some morbid weakness for vanity and theatricals. Worse still, I found everyone of his relatives, from the wife, to siblings, cousins and in-laws, answering to the name of pastors and deacons, and in charge of the many church branches and business entities he had founded from the money he amassed from the church. I would marvel to behold the life of flamboyance they all led amid the squalor that was the lot of most of the members.

Long story short, I'd say right from the day I set my foot into Christ Embassy church, my spirit was never at home. I had struggled to reconcile to no avail the realistic philosophies I was weaned on, with the stark illusive and shallow principles of the church. Coming from a background of a sober, austere and thoughtful approach to life, I was constantly caught up in a conflict between my deep convictions, and the carefree and flippant outlook of the pastor and the members. And hard as I tried to blend into their frivolous sub-culture, I failed and felt like a fish out of water. More so, so many of the church's policies wouldn't make sense to me, especially the huge billions that were wasted on needless projects and acquisitions in the face of an appalling indigence of most of the members that pooled the resources.


By late 2003, I would have taken stock of the journey so far. And to my regrets came the reality that the few months I had spent in the church had only taken a heavy toll on not only my spirituality, but also my psyche and finances. I had paid a price too many for staying far too long in a dungeon. And I even found out to my horror that I had grown desensitized to many of the anomalies I had earlier frowned at in the church. My spiritual compass I had so ignored to my peril.

And so by December of that year, I would pick what remained of my spirituality and alight from the sinking boat before the eve of 2004. I took off, and raced like lot's family, never thinking of turning back. But it would take another 8 years before I could completely purge my heart of the last vestige of hurts and regrets I took alongside. Perhaps, I was made to pass through it all so I could survive to warn people about one of the worst fraud syndicates ever in Nigeria - the Christ Embassy Church (of Chris Oyakhilome and family).
https://m.facebook.com/notes/kech-simons/the-reason-i-quit-religion-part-2-why-i-left-christ-embassy/10152341219853006/

^^
Ah! I see you've finally found a blog... I wish you find the truth you seek.

Remain blessed

Now there is a blog for those who needs new hope after leaving ce. As it is secret group you need to write to me so that i can add you if you want.

also now there is published blog by rev Anita herself at www.pastoranita.org about abuse and how to gain your life back after it. I personally had fallen in love with her blog as it is so her and as i was missing her ror articles.

deborah777:
also now there is published blog by rev Anita herself at www.pastoranita.org about abuse and how to gain your life back after it. I personally had fallen in love with her blog as it is so her and as i was missing her ror articles.

Supposed pastor Chris might keep going up but so is Islam, doesn't make either right love.

nannymcphee:

Why do you want to hear their experiences?
Are you about to join or you're already there?

I was helping in ce in eastern europe for two and half years but i did not considered myself as member there. It did not get going in my country as there is strong rccg already. I was not ready to be leader. Translation projects gave me good job experience also what i used somewhere else. But i do not recommend it to anyone.
About the blogs i found one or two.
And now former ce pastor Al Akhigbe has published his biographical book God is for sale. It is in amazon.com.

deborah777:


I was helping in ce in eastern europe for two and half years but i did not considered myself as member there. It did not get going in my country as there is strong rccg already. I was not ready to be leader. Translation projects gave me good job experience also what i used somewhere else. But i do not recommend it to anyone.
About the blogs i found one or two.
And now former ce pastor Al Akhigbe has published his biographical book God is for sale. It is in amazon.com.

.
You were never a member then, let me tell you one sincere thing about that Pastor Chris and the Church CE.

I got to know Pst Chris around 2000 or so when this issue of TB Joshua came up and Pst Okotie was attacking Pst Chris for following TB Joshua, immediately I saw his picture I something happened to me which I can't explain.

The man was so mature in handling the issue at hand, he never went on air to attack Okotie in spite of the barrage of attacks and criticism from Okotie,PFN and some notable personalities in the Christian circles eg Pst Bakare, Bishop Mike Okwonkwo, Papa Adeboye etc who said one or two things about him.

Am not a member of the Ministry, mind you am a Catholic, we don't even have a protestant in our family, let alone a Pentecostal, there is something about this man that I will really like to know more about, how come one man is so criticized by all and sundry but yet he has never gone to any media house to want to clear his name, I doubt if I have ever read or watched any of his interviews on TV or newspapers, the man is so down to earth, if only criticism can bring anybody down then by now this man and his church would have been history by now.

Look closely and see the man is not going down spiritually, I used to browse from time to time to see updates on what is happening around him and find out that he is not moved, he is unperturbed and he just concentrates on his calling, I don't know why am so curious checking on the ministry from time to time as if I have something there.


I think I have fallen in love with this church, this Sunday I will dodge and attend one of their branch close to my house and see something for myself.

Coming to Nairaland here I think I must confess that @Gombs, @Joe Agbaje and some Ce members have really conducted themselves well, I remember the post on Healing School by @Sir John and how a host of people came on attacking, some with insults and harsh words but these guys just kept their cool and tackled them one after the other without insulting anyone, I think I will give it to them for their humane and matured way of handling these criticisms even though some of them were very vulgar in their use of language against ce and their Pst.

I was introduced to Nairaland as far back as 2011 but I never opened an account until 2019 or so, I used to come online from time to time to read news updates and check @Sir John post on Healing School.

@Pst Kun you have been around for a while,
Where is @Oladeegu deeper life man, how about @Frosbell.
@Sir John