Assalaamu alaykum,
There is an ongoing heated debate in my town that I think borders on Understanding/Interpretation of the Deen. It all started when one Alfa in my Town, at a public lecture asserted that Kiln soap or any other detergent or Sanitizer can be used to wash any Ablution untensil that has been licked by a Dog. This according to him, can adequately replace the seven times washing including with sand that the Holy Prophet ordered in similar situation. He said what is most important is for the said item to be free of harmful germs.
While many Alfas here buy into his arguement, he has been viciously opposed by many others who accuse him of heresy. They say the Prophet's order stands irrespective of modern alternatives. Moreover they asserted, bringing some scientific proofs which i have not yet confirmed that sand is the most superior anti microbial agent. I just want to sample opinions here on this issue. Where do you stand?

Wa Alaykum Salam Waramatulah Wabarakatuh.
Firstly, how hazardous is dog's saliva? Can ordinary soap wash it off?

Why Are Pets Health Hazards?
The mouth and the intestines of pets can harbor bacteria and parasites that can be transmitted to humans. They can cause an assortment of medical conditions in humans. Diseases transmitted from animals to humans are called “zoonotic” (zo-not-ick).

Bacteria:
Pastuerella is a normal inhabitant of the mouth in cats and dogs that can cause skin, lymph node and, sometimes, more severe infections. Bartonella henselae, a bacterium that is transmitted to cats from fleas is also housed in the cats’ mouths. It is the cause of a severe skin and lymph node infection called cat-scratch-fever. Theoretically, humans can be infected by these bacteria by coming in contact with the saliva from a cat or dogs lick.

www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ktudor/2014/jan/are-dog-licks-unhealthy-for-people-31207
^^So using utensils licked by dogs without thorough cleaning is harmful.The above just shows the hazardous effect of dog's saliva.
So, the question now is: can soap adequately kills germs and bacteria?

Washing your hands with soap and
water will kill germs. Truth or misinformation?

Misinformation

1.Plain soaps have minimal if any antimicrobial activity.

2. In several studies, hand washing with plain soap failed to remove bad microorganisms (pathogens) from the hands of hospital personnel.

3. Hand washing with plain soap can result in an increase in bacterial counts on the skin.

4. Occasionally, contaminated plain soaps have
colonized hands with Gram-negative bacteria.

Reference:http:www.learnwell.org//
handhygiene.htm
http://www.scienceblog.com/10882/hand-hygiene-truths-myths-and-misinformation/#q1e5BStoEmQpdWPW.97

So, it would be better to follow the way of the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household).Sand will suppress these bacteria first because it's a physic washing, then the chemical washing with soap and water can thus follow.My thought though

A most interesting debate.you have in your town OP.

maclatunji:
A most interesting debate.you have in your town OP.

Yeah. It poses a serious question of how literally we are to take things and our conclusion on this issue has far reaching implications on a host of other issues in Islaam. Is it the objective we should be more concerned about or the methodology or both?

But wasnt there soaps during the Prophet's lifetime?

hmmm ,
amazing

Thank for this topic @op, wat step will a person take wen a dog touches the cloth you are putting on?

does sand contains bacteria?

Thanks for the Message

The proper measure as ascribe by the prophet stands

Harbiurlah:
Thank for this topic @op, wat step will a person take wen a dog touches the cloth you are putting on?

it is stated utensils not clothes

Hmmmmm, I was brought up as a Muslim and was told that you shouldn't allow any part of a dog to touch any part of my body and if that mistakenly happens, then I have to wash myself and the clothes seven times. But to my greatest surprise, when I came to the north east, I saw Muslims rearing dogs. I wonder if those ones has different Qur'an which is not possible or they are just being ignorant.

lakunle1love:
Hmmmmm, I was brought up as a Muslim and was told that you shouldn't allow any part of a dog to touch any part of my body and if that mistakenly happens, then I have to wash myself and the clothes seven times. But to my greatest surprise, when I came to the north east, I saw Muslims rearing dogs. I wonder if those ones has different Qur'an which is not possible or they are just being ignorant.

Please do not misquote d Prophet word.... A Muslim can keep a dog buh with caution :
http://www.virtualmosque.com/islam-studies/faqs-and-fatwas/mans-best-friend-the-islamic-view-on-dogs/

topic of the day so far on nairaland

The prophetic injuction stand, no matter what anybody says Unles he/she provides evidence from kitaabu was sunnah.... Modern Muslims are generally known as contradicting the sunnah in any form, they claim they want to strike a balance between the sunnah and the present days so as to conform with the society they live; all owing to their egocentric attitude. Am sure one of their excuses for this will be that "how can ordinary sand that everybody stepped on be more secure than using soaps or detergent or chemicals?" But they need to be reminded that just like performing ghusl with even a litre of water is best then swimming in a pool of water! Their ordinary thinking is useless in Islam especially when there is an athar pointing to such issues. WaLlaahul Musta'an!

AlBaqir, your attention is needed.

For anyone to raise this means he is going out of the seen. as a Muslim you can't be looking for rationalisation. if you are, it means you have not fully submitted. once you have fully submitted, you will naturally accepts everything as dictated by Allah and his messenger.
These questions may be acceptable from non Muslims because they have not agreed to being with Allah and his messenger.
Please remember the Yoruba saying that "the seen is based on knowledge as brought by the messenger and not on reasoning.
The good thing is that those promoting such debates, will see the prove they seek soon enough, but before then, shaitan may just be successful in misleading them.
Remember the people of Moses as recorded in the Quran. Allah simply commanded that they slaughtered a cow.they responded with series of irrelevant questions which almost put them in trouble. the Prophet has said it plain and clear. what is the need of any other opinion.
May we all be guided aright.

masha Allah

salam alaykum, according to what weve been hearing about after leaving the toilet we should wash our hands with ash and then soap which means ordinary soap can not wipe away the bacterias contracted from toilet so in applying this to the case of bacteria from dog saliva i believe part of property of sand is in ash which means sand is more purify than ash and soap therefore we should stick to prophet muhammad SAW injuction.
secondly, i believe the cleric that said soap does it all only beleive in cleaning the utensils but does not know scientific proven of bacterias from dog saliva and also may be he dosnt know getting rid of bacteria is more than using a soap

i dont abuse the cleric ooo they stand to be respected

Occurstaem:
AlBaqir, your attention is needed.

lanrexlan:
Wa Alaykum Salam Waramatulah Wabarakatuh.
Firstly, how hazardous is dog's saliva? Can ordinary soap wash it off?

Why Are Pets Health Hazards?
The mouth and the intestines of pets can harbor bacteria and parasites that can be transmitted to humans. They can cause an assortment of medical conditions in humans. Diseases transmitted from animals to humans are called “zoonotic” (zo-not-ick).

Bacteria:
Pastuerella is a normal inhabitant of the mouth in cats and dogs that can cause skin, lymph node and, sometimes, more severe infections. Bartonella henselae, a bacterium that is transmitted to cats from fleas is also housed in the cats’ mouths. It is the cause of a severe skin and lymph node infection called cat-scratch-fever. Theoretically, humans can be infected by these bacteria by coming in contact with the saliva from a cat or dogs lick.

www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ktudor/2014/jan/are-dog-licks-unhealthy-for-people-31207
^^So using utensils licked by dogs without thorough cleaning is harmful.The above just shows the hazardous effect of dog's saliva.
So, the question now is: can soap adequately kills germs and bacteria?

Washing your hands with soap and
water will kill germs. Truth or misinformation?

Misinformation

1.Plain soaps have minimal if any antimicrobial activity.

2. In several studies, hand washing with plain soap failed to remove bad microorganisms (pathogens) from the hands of hospital personnel.

3. Hand washing with plain soap can result in an increase in bacterial counts on the skin.

4. Occasionally, contaminated plain soaps have
colonized hands with Gram-negative bacteria.

Reference:http:www.learnwell.org//
handhygiene.htm
http://www.scienceblog.com/10882/hand-hygiene-truths-myths-and-misinformation/#q1e5BStoEmQpdWPW.97

So, it would be better to follow the way of the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household).Sand will suppress these bacteria first because it's a physic washing, then the chemical washing with soap and water can thus follow.My thought though

Ma sha Allah! Jazak'Allahu khairan lanrexlan for that scientific analysis. Really my religious understanding has always been that science and religion are intertwine; but since the former can change in theory, practical and discoveries, it can never over rule the later for that is ordained by Allah even if we do not understand yet. Hence, science must agree with Religion putting aside fabrication, superstitions etc in religious texts.

However, I think the reason why the holy Prophet (peace be upon him and his household) ruled on washing with earth (7times) is to ensure thorough washing and removal of these deadly germs. He knew about these germs while its hard to explain to his companions. Even the knowledge of these microbes only come some decades ago. Take for example, there are some ahadith in which the holy Prophet cautioned drinking of water from broken parts of a cup or the handle side because those places abhor "Jinn". Like he was reported with the instruction of reducing or cutting the mustache because its a place where "Jinn" sits. Literal interpretation of these noble traditions makes no sense yet faithful believers will abide by those instructions even if he understands it not.

Scholars reasons the word "Jinn" there refers to microbes. So my search so far based on the opinions of various Ulama on why we should wash with earth 7times is the above - the removal of deadly microbes. But come to think of it, does soaps used for utensil usually contains antimicrobial active agents that can get rid of those microbes? Majority does not because these antimicrobial active agents are dangerous if ingested.

Then, today how pure is our earth amidst industrial chemical effluents? And how less harmful is our earth amidst naturally occurring heavy metals present in the soil?

Even gone are those days that rain water is pure. We have polluted our sky ways.
""Corruption has appeared in the land and the sea on account of what the hands of men have wrought, that He may make them taste a part of that which they have done, so that they may return" {Quran 30: 41}

While I usually don't expect a muslim to mix his kitchen utensils with that of his dog, while I expect a muslim to keep to the Sunnah of neatness at all time, I believe using pure sand before using soap to wash whatever dog licks will remove those germs.
****************

Then, on dogs! Many muslims treat dogs like Haram-dont go area. We even develop this cold attitude to them. Not only dogs even pigs et al. While we need to be very careful about them, their divine right over us is that we treat them with respect not bully them. There is a report in Kanzul Ummal narrated from the holy Prophet (peace be upon him and his household) that a prostitute was forgiven by Allah for her kindness to a dog. She saw the dog very thirsty and beside a well. Since there is no drawer, she took off her shoe, tie a rope to it and draw some water out for the dog to drink.

All these animals are creatures of Allah and He created them perfectly for a unique purpose. He did not created for fun, Qur'an says. And besides, you and I could have been created in that form. Even if we don't or cannot or are not allowed to rear them, we should always see the beauty of Allah in them and glorify Him.
"In the creation of heavens and the earth...there are signs for those who reflect..." Qur'an says.

For the Muslims who rear dogs, there are rules and regulations set by scholars to ensure the spiritual safety of the Muslim.

May Allah be sufficient for us.

salamualaykum. Waramatulah Wabarakatuh.
pls what the Prophet's Injunction on Washing cloth Touched by
Dogs

and how does one go about washing the cloth
thank you

thanks for this op I greatly benefit..very good discution .

I was expectn d debate to be shld d wshn wt sand be d first or d last washn, ds is no debate we go by wht d prophet says #dtsall

No doubt that who ever reputed the comaand or any teaching of prophet muhammad peace be upon him intentionaly with no any prove from the quran and hadith this is going out of islam so a nonbeliever can aks such quistion without any challenge and he will be answer with respect and explanation so that he can understand and my advice here is who ever is not satified with this islamic knowledge let him simply contact the world trough google he will see many reaserches. From the world trusted doctors that prove and support the words of prohet mohammad peace be upon him

Prophet muhammad peace be upon him he nerver in his life lies to any one in any condition he never broke to any one promise so that is why the disbelievers of makka arab they give him the name trustworthy them selfs they are even making him a judge inbetween any crisis around them and this is before he became the prophet of Allah . And Allah swt proved it him self in the quran that prophet muhammad s.a.w (peace be upon him)is not saying his wish but only what God directed him to say trough the angel gabriel A.s. Quran chapter annajmi (the star)vease 3.

Updated......

Empiree:
Updated......

Lol. You are digging this up too? Good job. Kudos

Updated......

This is a year old now. I think it is high time i give my opinion on this. Took me so late