honourhim:


Its not me you were addresseng I can see.

My brother you are confused let's drop it.

DieeDiee:


My brother you are confused let's drop it.

My sister you are the one confused.

DieeDiee:


What? How can I disobey something I don't even believe exists?

but you BELIEVE the thing caused God. So He exist.

malvisguy212:
but you BELIEVE the thing caused God. So He exist.

I never said anything caused God.

DieeDiee:


I never said anything caused God.

ok. Thank you for your time. God is the FIRST CAUSED.

malvisguy212:
ok. Thank you for your time. God is the FIRST CAUSED.

Either you missed the point or you just jumped in without reading the beginning.

I love this room, its full of intelligent people. Thanks guys, I learned a lot here.

DieeDiee:


Either you missed the point or you just jumped in without reading the beginning.

your earlier coment indicate , nothing caused God, in other word, God is the first caused.

ooman2:
Material effects require material causes.

So a god, which is not material, cannot influence material medium.

Gravity and the other fundamental forces (eg electromagnetism) are not material, yet they have observable material effects.

Another reason for rejecting God
(choosing atheism), is a willing
acceptance of satanic deception.

The angel Lucifer fell and became Satan (“adversary”) due to his desire to supplant God.
This was Lucifer’s single-minded obsession. He not only rejected God by attempting to supplant Him, but he urged humans to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God for her own self-fulfilment:
He said to the woman, “Did God actually
say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the
garden’?” And the woman said to the
serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the
trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You
shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the
serpent said to the woman, “You will not
surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:1-5 ESV).

The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s
statements, then, contradict God’s
statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.

This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to
make statements in the first place, so
God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to
have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self.

This satanic deception appeals strongly
to atheists as it bolsters two of their
desired delusions: 1) absolute autonomy —being free to do as they please, and 2) the lack of ultimate accountability—there are no eternal consequences for doing as they please.

malvisguy212:
your earlier coment indicate , nothing caused God, in other word, God is the first caused.

I never said that either. What I said is there is no proof of God's existence and the faith and the bible are not proof

DieeDiee:


I never said that either. What I said is there is no proof of God's existence and the faith and the bible are not proof

you can twist your earlier coment you made, no problem bro, the truth is this , there is God.

Christianity is not a blind faith.

malvisguy212:
you can twist your earlier coment you made, no problem bro, the truth is this , there is God.

Christianity is not a blind faith.

Next time start from the top of the conversation not the middle else you'll always catch the wrong end of the stick as you have done now.

DieeDiee:


Next time start from the top of the conversation not the middle else you'll always catch the wrong end of the stick as you have done now.

when you made this post
"I never said anything caused God"

What are you trying to say here?

malvisguy212:
Another reason for rejecting God
(choosing atheism), is a willing
acceptance of satanic deception.

The angel Lucifer fell and became Satan (“adversary”) due to his desire to supplant God.
This was Lucifer’s single-minded obsession. He not only rejected God by attempting to supplant Him, but he urged humans to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God for her own self-fulfilment:
He said to the woman, “Did God actually
say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the
garden’?” And the woman said to the
serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the
trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You
shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the
serpent said to the woman, “You will not
surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:1-5 ESV).

The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s
statements, then, contradict God’s
statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.

This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to
make statements in the first place, so
God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to
have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self.

This satanic deception appeals strongly
to atheists as it bolsters two of their
desired delusions: 1) absolute autonomy —being free to do as they please, and 2) the lack of ultimate accountability—there are no eternal consequences for doing as they please.

Christianity doesn't need anything or anyone to make it contradict itself it does that perfectly all by itself. Proof: God is supposedly all knowing and knows what you are going to do before you know yourself. If that is true why didn't he know that Lucifer was going to try to overthrow Him and "bring" evil? A rational being with that knowledge would have prevented that from happening by either not creating Lucifer or stopping him somehow before hand. God is claimed to be loving and forgiving yet he loves punishing people and destroying cities in the bible. That's neither loving or forgiving.

malvisguy212:
when you made this post
"I never said anything caused God"

What are you trying to say here?

#sigh... If you start from the beginning and read carefully you'll notice I keep saying there is no proof of God, God doesn't exist therefore if he doesn't exist nothing can cause Him. Understand now?

DieeDiee:


Christianity doesn't need anything or anyone to make it contradict itself it does that perfectly all by itself. Proof: God is supposedly all knowing and knows what you are going to do before you know yourself. If that is true why didn't he know that Lucifer was going to try to overthrow Him and "bring" evil? A rational being with that knowledge would have prevented that from happening by either not creating Lucifer or stopping him somehow before hand. God is claimed to be loving and forgiving yet he loves punishing people and destroying cities in the bible. That's neither loving or forgiving.

lucifer was created with one of the finest material;

Ezekiel 28:12–15
12 “Son of man, araise a lamentation
over bthe king of Tyre, and say to him,
Thus says the Lord God:
“You were the signet of perfection,1
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of
God;
fevery precious stone was your covering,
sardius, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire,2 femerald, and carbuncle;
and crafted in gold were your settings
and your engravings.
On the day that you were created
they were prepared.
14 You were an anointed guardian
cherub.
I placed you; you were on the holy
mountain of God;
in the midst of the stones of fire you
walked.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created,
till UNRIGHTEOUSNESS was found in you.

How did unrighteousness found in satan? Notice the word "I WILL"in the verse bellow;

Isaiah 14:12–15
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, eson of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart,
I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the
clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.

malvisguy212:
lucifer was created with one of the finest material;

Ezekiel 28:12–15
12 “Son of man, araise a lamentation
over bthe king of Tyre, and say to him,
Thus says the Lord God:
“You were the signet of perfection,1
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of
God;
fevery precious stone was your covering,
sardius, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire,2 femerald, and carbuncle;
and crafted in gold were your settings
and your engravings.
On the day that you were created
they were prepared.
14 You were an anointed guardian
cherub.
I placed you; you were on the holy
mountain of God;
in the midst of the stones of fire you
walked.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created,
till UNRIGHTEOUSNESS was found in you.

How did unrighteousness found in satan? Notice the word "I WILL"in the verse bellow;

Isaiah 14:12–15
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, eson of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart,
I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the
clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.

Your point is...?

truthman2012:


Lo! still dodging the question.

Do atheists have conscience? I doubt it. Otherwise since there is no evidence that there is another being or thing that caused the the Universe, there is no reason to doubt it was God.

Anyone who has no God has no true wisdom or understanding.

You have not provided evidence for a God yet. The Christian God might have been Allah's creation, these gods are simply conjectures.

DieeDiee:


Christianity doesn't need anything or anyone to make it contradict itself it does that perfectly all by itself. Proof: God is supposedly all knowing and knows what you are going to do before you know yourself. If that is true why didn't he know that Lucifer was going to try to overthrow Him and "bring" evil?

How did you know that God didn't know that lucifer will fall?

DieeDiee:


A rational being with that knowledge would have prevented that from happening by either not creating Lucifer or stopping him somehow before hand. .

God has hiis reason for allowing things go that way and it must not suit ours. Do you know his purpose for creating the earth and all that are in it?

DieeDiee:


God is claimed to be loving and forgiving yet he loves punishing people and destroying cities in the bible. That's neither loving or forgiving.

Did God claim he is only loving and does his love mean poampering evil doers?
Did he say he ll forgive when you ve not asked for it?
Did he say he is punishing because he loves to punish even when he made a way of escape (the redemption plan)? If he loves punishing then he wouldn't have made the way out.

truthman2012:
@DieeDiee

Your lengthy post does not answer my question, which all atheists have been dodging.

Nothing can produce something, right? Therefore something must have produced the Universe, which the bible says is God.

If you don't believe it was God, what was it?

If it was God who created it/him/her /they? (whatever your God is)

honourhim:
I can see how atheists are running helter skelter like cockroach that has been sprayed with insecticide.

The OP is so clear and exposes your no-God self deceit. You people are just deceiving yourselves.

Who created this Christian God?

malvisguy212:
yes there are law of physics and time,something cannot came out from no where,scientists can say something must have caused God(which is wrong) but the problems with this scientists is that they don't understand the nature of God, science can't explained God.I believe God is not bound by our understanding of time, why did I say this? Because there are lot of prophecy in the bible that the prophet use present tens example isaiah say "a child IS given" he use present tens.

God is the sole exception to these laws because he is a supernatural being instead of a natural one: he is invisible and immaterial, and his existence does not depend on, nor is it tied to, the existence of our physical world. What holds true of the natural and material does not necessarily hold true of the supernatural and immaterial (and vice versa).
Thank you.

You are using a book written by cavemen and edited by the Roman empire to argue about the existence of God.

Firstly the bible lacks credibility.

Secondly why Yaweh? What if Amadioha, Allah,Krishna, or the other gods created the universe and Yahweh?

GeneralShepherd:



Who created this Christian God?

God is the very first cause.

honourhim:


God is the very first cause.

What does that mean?

honourhim:


How did you know that God didn't know that lucifer will fall?

if he knew and he still allowed it to happen then he is a sadist not loving. He deliberately created humans to be weak, put us in the lion's den then expects us to be strong and resist the devil whom even the angels (who are supposedly holier and stronger than us) couldn't resist and we humans who were deliberately made weak are meant to be strong enough to resist this "devil"? He clearly doesn't love all his "creations" equally therefore he is not a fair and just God as christianity claims he does or else he would have at least made us strong instead of weak and then brag about weakness of humans. By the way a human and animal parent goes out of the way to protect it's young and would never deliberately put its child in harm's way. If God knew about Lucifer but allowed it to happen that raises some serious eyebrows.

God has hiis reason for allowing things go that way and it must not suit ours. Do you know his purpose for creating the earth and all that are in it?

Clearly to amuse himself if he deliberately created Lucifer and allow him to bring evil into the world. What greater purpose does allowing a 3 month old baby to be raped serve? People to enslaved simply because they have darker pigmentation? Why does he continue to hide Himself when He can see people killing each other over Him? He can end the arguments and senseless
killings simply by revealing Himself. What purpose does allowing religious gangsters to prosper at the expense of the poor who are trying to reach out to Him in the first place?

Did God claim he is only loving and does his love mean poampering evil doers?

First question: YES! Walk into any church first thing they'll tell is "God loves you my child". So this God's love means that I must be neglected by my father before birth, by my mother at child birth, abused by my aunt and uncle who raised me and later by my boyfriends and physically abused by my husband everyday? Because He doesn't want to pamper me? These things must have happened to me because somehow as a foetus inside my mother's tummy I must have sinned and deserved punishment?

Did he say he ll forgive when you ve not asked for it?

does the bible not say: "ask and it shall be given unto you?". Therefore why is it unreasonable for me to expect forgiveness if I ask for it? Humans forgive when they are asked, why can't God who is supposedly greater than us?

Did he say he is punishing because he loves to punish even when he made a way of escape (the redemption plan)? If he loves punishing then he wouldn't have made the way out.

all of that wouldn't have been necessary had He not created evil in the first place. If He is as all knowing as claimed He would have known what will happen and if He really was loving He would have prevented it or at least destroyed Lucifer and evil and He wouldn't be waiting time immemorial to do it. The argument that God hasn't destroyed Lucifer because He is a loving God who does not destroy does not fly. What about the residents of Sodom and Gomora? The first population before the Noah flood or the Philistine soldiers he killed (or allowed to be killed)?

You think you are defending God but all you have done is prove what greater love than God humans have. How more forgiving humans are. Your parent no matter how much wrong you have done will never destroy you instead (even though they might punish you) will love you harder and work harder to protect you because they will interpret it as they haven't done a good job of guiding you.

GeneralShepherd:


You are using a book written by cavemen and edited by the Roman empire to argue about the existence of God.

Firstly the bible lacks credibility.

Secondly why Yaweh? What if Amadioha, Allah,Krishna, or the other gods created the universe and Yahweh?

non of this gods stand in a better position to be called the supreme God.

Pleased compare the bible in the 6th century and the present day bible google it and see for your self.the new testament we have today is at least least 99.5% accurate to the original. No
change. (The .5% differences refer to spelling, but no change in meaning.).


When Islam began in the 6th century,
600 years after Jesus Christ, the Bible
was accepted as true. So, you might ask, has the Bible changed since the 6th century? No. All you have to
do is. compare today's Bible with a Bible
written long ago.
We can find complete Bibles, all the way
back to 300 A.D., hundreds of years
before the Quran. You can find one in
the London Museum, in the Vatican, and
many other places. If you compare
today's Bible with the Bibles of 300 A.D.,
the Bible we have today is the same as
then.

GeneralShepherd:



Who created this Christian God?

if we answer this question by saying something created God, you will still ask "who created the something that created God, the question continue in a cycle, it senseless .

If you don't worship God when you are young, is it when you became 60years that is when you will worship him? When life is no more fun.

malvisguy212:
if we answer this question by saying something created God, you will still ask "who created the something that created God, the question continue in a cycle, it senseless .

If you don't worship God when you are young, is it when you became 60years that is when you will worship him? When life is no more fun.

It's stupidity worshiping a thing that doesn't exist.

It's that simple. I don't have any need for a God.

malvisguy212:
non of this gods stand in a better position to be called the supreme God.

Pleased compare the bible in the 6th century and the present day bible google it and see for your self.the new testament we have today is at least least 99.5% accurate to the original. No
change. (The .5% differences refer to spelling, but no change in meaning.).
Mi

When Islam began in the 6th century,
600 years after Jesus Christ, the Bible
was accepted as true. So, you might ask, has the Bible changed since the 6th century? No. All you have to
do is. compare today's Bible with a Bible
written long ago.
We can find complete Bibles, all the way
back to 300 A.D., hundreds of years
before the Quran. You can find one in
the London Museum, in the Vatican, and
many other places. If you compare
today's Bible with the Bibles of 300 A.D.,
the Bible we have today is the same as
then.

Every worshipper claims his or her God is the supreme being, that is why religion is so divisive and destructive.

My grandparents, great grandparents and had gods before the white men brought the Jewish God.

Even the same Europeans have done away with the retrogressive believe in gods yet africans still hold fast to religion.

With all the God worshiping you will think Nigeria would have been better that Europe and America.

honourhim:


God is the very first cause.

But you said something cannot come out of nothing, yet your God came out of nothing. Why is your God violating your own logic? If a God can come out nothing then you just agreed that the universe might have come out nothing.

It simply means that we agree that something can come out of nothing,unless you agree that God is nothing.

Anyway for now nobody knows how the universe started and till there is a proof for a God, I'm happy loving my family and friends. I am actually happier now that I am an atheist. For two years it's been fun.

GeneralShepherd:


Every worshipper claims his or her God is the supreme being, that is why religion is so divisive and destructive.

My grandparents, great grandparents and had gods before the white men brought the Jewish God.

Even the same Europeans have done away with the retrogressive believe in gods yet africans still hold fast to religion.

With all the God worshiping you will think Nigeria would have been better that Europe and America.

quote the claimed from this gods that say they are the creator of this universe.