I have been attending an educational programme since last week. Before the commencement of the programme daily, there is always a morning devotion for both Christian and Muslims. In one corner, the Christians meet for their devotion and the Muslims meet in another.

And the temples are for God: So invoke no one along with God

I resented joining either group. Christians invoke Jesus in their worship and Muslims invoke Muhammad too. Reluctantly, i joined the Muslim group. As usual, they always begin and conclude their prayers with greetings and salution to Muhammad which amount to veneration. According to their traditions, without that, prayers would not be accepted. I often stand idly when they do this.


Yesterday, one dark hefty looking man named Mr. Hassan, conducted the devotion. At the end, he delayed us briefly and addressed us thus;

"I hope you know what is going on in France, a cartoon mocking Muhammad was published and the whole of the west is supporting it".

He then paused for a while and dismissed us without saying anything else.

Half truth is Dangerous

I left that gathering with a heavy heart. It is true that Charlie Hebdo cartoon mocked Muhammad and some westerners have justified it as legal under freedom of speech, but that isn't the full story, why is Mr. Hassan keeping half of the truth to himself?

Isn't he aware that Charlie Hebdo and 11 others who may have no hand in the cartoon were killed by a fanatic Muslim gang shortly after the release of the cartoon? Isn't he a Muslim, why isn't he objective and honest in his utterance?

Ignorance is the greatest Disease of all time

As i drowned my disappointment in my brunch that morning, i realized Mr. Hassan was either ignorantly parroting what he heard or just deliberately concealed the latter part of the story. Whatever the case, it is upsetting.

Of course, people are mostly ignorant generally, not because the have no access to information but because they are lazy and dislike studying. Most Muslims are guilty of this, they know nothing about their history, very little about their religion and are unaware of the religio-political tumoil in the Muslim world. The repercussion of this ignorance is gross.

Mr. Hassan 's announcement that morning is dangerous, it cast out the Muslims as the only victim in the event and this feeds separatism and radicalism among Muslims. Given that most people report what they heard without confirmation, Mr Hassan devious message that morning is bound to spread like wildfire.

Honour or Victimhood

Playing the victim card is a very powerful strategy of ganering sympathy in the world today. Sometimes, this strategy is employed at the expense of honour. I wouldn't be shocked to learn Mr. Hassan was fully aware of the terror by the Muslim gang in response to that cartoon but chose to ignore it. In that case, Mr Hassan 's will is to reinforce the sense of victimhood in Muslims and sustain the hatred for the west.

As such, revealing the full story will be counterproductive, awakening the Muslims to the fanatic trends thriving in their midst, therefore pitting Muslims against Muslims and dampening their reaction to the cartoon. Consequently, while the cartoons which didn't hurt Muhammad are discussed relentlessly by Muslims, the shootings which claimed live are relatively seldom discussed. And the impression here is that Muslims consider the killing of the cartoonists as justice or not as offensive as the cartoon.

I know it too well

I know the victim card too well. Growing up in the Muslim community in 2001, we were taught that US invaded Afghanistan to kill our Muslim brothers. To cultivate a feeling of victimhood and hatred for US in us, we were never taught the atrocities by fanatic elements in our midsts on the Twin Towers(9/11) and several US embassies in the Middle east.

Too often, we learn that US is the satan who support Isreal in all her oppression of our Palestinian brothers. We were never taught that our brothers heavily enjoined the service of US against the Soviet communists throughout the Soviet-Afghan war(1979-1989).

In a nut shell, our Muslim brothers tell us only half-truth. Of course, most of us have been radicalized by this and do not realize it today. But thankfully, the full truth has set me free.

Good that you have now been set free. Bye.

Is Honour greater than Life?

Charlie Hebdo shooters and sympathizers justify their stance as defending Muhammad 's honour. It is difficult to fathom how killing has defended Muhammad 's honour. It think nothing violates Muhammad 's honour than his followers shedding blood indiscriminately as the shooters have done. Each time Muhammad has been 'defamed', the Muslim reaction has been bloody. Danish Cartoons and Salman Rushdie 's Satanic Verses comes to mind here.

We don't need to ask before we realize the relevance of Charlie Hebdo shooting in Paris to honour killings in Islamabad. As Muslim scholars declare death for any defamer, condemner or naysayer of Muhammad, they are ruling that sometimes, honour is more sacred thn life. In adherence to such teachings, Charlie Hebdo and his colleagues paid with their life. And several Muslims in the Middle east are paying with their life for dishonouring their families today.

usermane:
And the temples are for God: So invoke no one along with God

Muslims invoke Muhammad too. Reluctantly, i joined the Muslim group. As usual, they always begin and conclude their prayers with greetings and salution to Muhammad which amount to veneration. According to their traditions, without that, prayers would not be accepted. I often stand idly when they do this.


Yesterday, one dark hefty looking man named Mr. Hassan, conducted the devotion.

What do you mean by they invoke Muhammad(Allah's blessing be upon him and his family)? Sending greeting and salutation on this great prophet is commanded in the Quran 33:56. It's not worship of him. It's asking God to send peace and salutation on him. Dont know what you thinking.

What exactly those people say?.

No, it not like prayer will not be accepted. I think you need to upgrade your iman on this subject.... very weak usermane, very weak.

usermane:
Half truth is Dangerous

I left that gathering with a heavy heart. It is true that Charlie Hebdo cartoon mocked Muhammad and some westerners have justified it as legal under freedom of speech, but that isn't the full story, why is Mr. Hassan keeping half of the truth to himself?

Isn't he aware that Charlie Hebdo and 11 others who may have no hand in the cartoon were killed by a fanatic Muslim gang shortly after the release of the cartoon? Isn't he a Muslim, why isn't he objective and honest in his utterance?

Yea, just like western media does not recognize or refused to tell the world about muslim police officer who was also killed in the attacks. They publish what suits them.

.

usermane:
Honour or Victimhood

Playing the victim card is a very powerful strategy of ganering sympathy in the world today. Sometimes, this strategy is employed at the expense of honour. I wouldn't be shocked to learn Mr. Hassan was fully aware of the terror by the Muslim gang in response to that cartoon but chose to ignore it. In that case, Mr Hassan 's will is to reinforce the sense of victimhood in Muslims and sustain the hatred for the west.

As such, revealing the full story will be counterproductive, awakening the Muslims to the fanatic trends thriving in their midst, therefore pitting Muslims against Muslims and dampening their reaction to the cartoon. Consequently, while the cartoons which didn't hurt Muhammad are discussed relentlessly by Muslims, the shootings which claimed live are relatively seldom discussed. And the impression here is that Muslims consider the killing of the cartoonists as justice or not as offensive as the cartoon.

You are still one sided. Western (most part) dont give a foot about thousands of muslims killed by foreign troops in their countries. They only see one side that portray western people as the victims. You are very dishonest usermane, very dishonest. Do you think folks are stupid?. I honestly dont expect western media to portray muslims as victim as this is counterproductive to primary agenda.

In the same way, you shouldnt expect muslims to do otherwise. Everyone plays victim card. Do you get it brother?

Pipe Dreams

I still feel bitter over the whole incident with Mr. Hassan. That is why by noon that day, i didn't hesistate to walk out on the Muslims who were gathered for the bus to convey them for the weekly congregational Salat.

Those who understand me realize my resentment of the Muslim community. Still, i nuture dreams that one day, this community will realize their enemies live among them, lead them in worship and legislate for them regarding their religion and admit that by telling only half-truth, Muslims like Mr Hassan are like a bad mother spoiling a kid who just woefully failed final exams with extravagant gifts.


TOPIC TO BE UPDATED

usermane:
I know it too well

I know the victim card too well. Growing up in the Muslim community in 2001, we were taught that US invaded Afghanistan to kill our Muslim brothers. To cultivate a feeling of victimhood and hatred for US in us, we were never taught the atrocities by fanatic elements in our midsts on the Twin Towers(9/11) and several US embassies in the Middle east.

Too often, we learn that US is the satan who support Isreal in all her oppression of our Palestinian brothers. We were never taught that our brothers heavily enjoined the service of US against the Soviet communists throughout the Soviet-Afghan war(1979-1989).

In a nut shell, our Muslim brothers tell us only half-truth. Of course, most of us have been radicalized by this and do not realize it today. But thankfully, the full truth has set me free.

Yawn!!! only usermane still believe stupid narrative. Many westerners don port past this nonsense.

Empiree:
What do you mean by they invoke Muhammad(Allah's blessing be upon him and his family)? Sending greeting and salutation on this great prophet is commanded in the Quran 33:56. It's not worship of him. It's asking God to send peace and salutation on him. Dont know what you thinking.

@underline is incorrect, it is derived from poor translation and interpretation of the verse.

What exactly those people say?.

No, it not like prayer will not be accepted. I think you need to upgrade your iman on this subject.... very weak usermane, very weak.

“Duaa is suspended between heaven and earth and none of it is taken up until you send blessings upon your Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.” [At-Tirmidhi, Hasan Al-Albani]

Your tradition above says it all. Arab pagan did believe that direct contact with God is not possible and only upon venerating certain idols do their prayer reach God.

Once you believe that contacting God is not possible without mentioning another being, you are associating that being with God.

Empiree:
Yea just like western media does not recognize or refused to tell the world about muslim police officer who was also killed in the attacks. They publish what suits them.

Wow. ..you are really ignorant or just lieing. The very frist victim of the shoot ing that people learnt of was the Muslim police officer. ..right now i know by heart only the name of the editor and theMuslim officer because the editor was quite popular and the officer name was mentioned so many times in the media. ..

TheWestern media even showed a live broadcast of a conference organized for the family of the Muslim police man. ... i was actually offended that cnn paid far too much attention to the Muslim officer and neglected to follow up on the families of the 11 other murdered people . ... Your comment here goes to show how valid the point of usermane is. .The majority of muslims love to play victim...Get over yourself.
U blame the Jews, u blame the zionists, u blame the usa , u blame the West. .. can't u see ur religion is the problem; with all its hate, how do you think the Muslim world will progress..17 million jews versus 1.5 billion muslims yet the Jews have made so much contribution to humanity while the Muslims give the world one terrorist incident after another. .

Sorry, we live world apart. Where i live, it was the opposite. Pls, read btw the lines. Thanks

Ifeann:


Wow. ..you are really ignorant or just lieing. The very frist victim of the shoot ing that people learnt of was the Muslim police officer. ..right now i know by heart only the name of the editor and theMuslim officer because the editor was quite popular and the officer name was mentioned so many times in the media. ..

TheWestern media even showed a live broadcast of a conference organized for the family of the Muslim police man. ... i was actually offended that cnn paid far too much attention to the Muslim officer and neglected to follow up on the families of the 11 other murdered people . ... Your comment here goes to show how valid the point of usermane is. .The majority of muslims love to play victim...Get over yourself.
U blame the Jews, u blame the zionists, u blame the usa , u blame the West. .. can't u see ur religion is the problem; with all its hate, how do you think the Muslim world will progress..17 million jews versus 1.5 billion muslims yet the Jews have made so much contribution to humanity while the Muslims give the world one terrorist incident after another. .

usermane:
Is Honour greater than Life?

Charlie Hebdo shooters and sympathizers justify their stance as defending Muhammad 's honour. It is difficult to fathom how killing has defended Muhammad 's honour. It think nothing violates Muhammad 's honour than his followers shedding blood indiscriminately as the shooters have done. Each time Muhammad has been 'defamed', the Muslim reaction has been bloody. Danish Cartoons and Salman Rushdie 's Satanic Verses comes to mind here.

We don't need to ask before we realize the relevance of Charlie Hebdo shooting in Paris to honour killings in Islamabad. As Muslim scholars declare death for any defamer, condemner or naysayer of Muhammad, they are ruling that sometimes, honour is more sacred thn life. In adherence to such teachings, Charlie Hebdo and his colleagues paid with their life. And several Muslims in the Middle east are paying with their life for dishonouring their families today.

My brother in humanity, i have read your write up and i think u made several excellent points. ..i don't agree with all of them tho..
i think joint prayers are pretentious, i also think that mentioning Mohammed in prayer is blasphemy. . He is dead and can't hear anybody. ..even if you Muslims calm he is in Paradise(which he is not) , why would he hear when he is busy having sex with 72 virgins. Please i mean no offense because i am saying it based on information from the bible and even the quran and hadith. ..

One idea u got wrong is on the killing of the cartoonists of Mohammed. Mohammed had several people killed for mocking him or criticizing him... according to your hadiths he approved of the murder of an old man in his 100s for writing a poem about Islam and he called for the eventual butchering of a breastfeeding mother in front of her kids... he murdered so manyothers for making fun of him....Below i will upload a pic on the murder of his critics from a passage from one of your authentic sources. ..

Empiree:
Sorry, we live world apart. Where i live, it was the opposite. Pls, read btw the lines. Thanks

Wow so u don't get satellite tv were u are. .. why should i read between the lines. . What's your point. .u lied foolishly and i called u out on it. ..i hate it when u Muslims attack another Muslim for saying the truth. .u are making up a silly and false point to discredit the op and i wont accept it. ..

usermane:


@underline is incorrect, it is derived from poor translation and interpretation of the verse.



“Duaa is suspended between heaven and earth and none of it is taken up until you send blessings upon your Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.” [At-Tirmidhi, Hasan Al-Albani]

Your tradition above says it all. Arab pagan did believe that direct contact with God is not possible and only upon venerating certain idols do their prayer reach God.

Once you believe that contacting God is not possible without mentioning another being, you are associating that being with God.

Poor translation?. You have "correct translation?. This is not intermidiary thing. You talking about Arab pagans. I am talking about muslims here. No muslim believe direct contact with God is impossible. Thats false. Hadith you quoted has nothing to do with "direct contact". What do you think attracts non muslims to come to islam most?. Isnt direct contact?. When is comes to worship, basically, direct connection is what it is in salat. It even seems to me that you dont fully understand concept of worship from salutation of the prophet. Salutation of the prophet (saw) is highly recommended. Sura 33:56 is God's command on believers. It's not shirk friend

Ifeann:


Wow so u don't get satellite tv were u are. .. why should i read between the lines. . What's your point. .u lied foolishly and i called u out on it. ..i hate it when u Muslims attack another Muslim for saying the truth. .u are making up a silly and false point to discredit the op and i want accept it. ..

I am done with you ma'am or sir.

Empiree:
I am done with you ma'am or sir.

Yes when the glaring truth is presented to a muslim , (s) he runs away..its ok.. just don't tell more lies. .

Ifeann:


Yes when the glaring truth is presented to a muslim , (s) he runs away..its ok.. just don't tell more lies. .

Honestly, you dont get it. Mainstream media would say satirical magazine cartoonist was killed along with "11 others". It was alternative media that spoke about muslim officer among the victims. It was only recently it was briefly shown on TV about a muslim guy who helped prevent attack on Jewish place. I see him interviewed. Anything else as you want me to believe is utter nonsense.

Besides, no muslim should apologize for crime someone committed. Others commit crimes too and no one apologized for it except maybe relatives. I owe no one apology. The criminals are killed and thats it. Game over. Coming after muslims cus of that is unjust and irrelevant. When Richard Reid, the shoe bomber blow up something, all Richards in the world did not go out apologizing for that.

Empiree:
Honestly, you dont get it. Mainstream media would say satirical magazine cartoonist was killed along with 11 others. It was alternative media that spoke about muslim officer among the victims. It was only recently it was briefly shown on tv abou a muslim guy who help prevent attack on jewish place. I see him inerviewed. Anything else as you want me to believe is utter nonsense.

Besides, no muslim should apoligise for crime someone commited. Others commit crimes too and no one apologized for it exept maybe relatives. I owe no one apology. The criminals are killed and thats it. Game over. Coming after muslim cus of that is unjust and irrelivant. When Richard Reid, the shoe bomber blow up soomething, all richards in the world do not go out apologizing for that.

Apparently u have u "facts" muddled up...firstly, i heard about the Muslim police officer on the second day from the main stream media. ..i even heard on cnn, that the terrorists are unIslamic because they killed a Muslim from a field reporter of cnn... i tot the reporter was foolish because how would the terrorist know the man they just murdered was a muslim. .... i wonder why cnn tried to distance the terrorists from Islam. .

it wasn't long before that brave muslim man was covered in all the head lines for his heroism..it wasnt hidden and i even saw him on the news today, "free secular western france" has praised the Muslim man as a hero and he is getting his citizenship for his effort. . so my dear you are very incorrect about media bias....at least on this incident. .

Then u went on to say u won't apologized for the crimes of other Muslim. .. when did i Say u should. . When did i raise this topic. ..i personally think no Muslim should apologize for the crimes of another Muslim. No family should be berated for the crimes of their (adult)kin .. however i submit that muslims should always condemn the crimes of Muslim terrorists like western Muslims often do and not praise terrorism like alot of Muslims in the middle east and africa do... Your doctrine and traditions in Islam is also a big problem and muslims have to do something about it...

When a muslim like the op brings up the issues with Islam other Muslims disparage him. .how can u defeat islamic terrorism with that mindset. ..

^oh pls. Enough lectures. keep your eyes out.

Empiree:
What do you mean by they invoke Muhammad(Allah's blessing be upon him and his family)? Sending greeting and salutation on this great prophet is commanded in the Quran 33:56. It's not worship of him. It's asking God to send peace and salutation on him. Dont know what you thinking.

What exactly those people say?.

No, it not like prayer will not be accepted. I think you need to upgrade your iman on this subject.... very weak usermane, very weak.

why will you send peace and blessing of God to someone who live in the present of God? Or are you not sure he was in heaven? You cannot give your peace to someone who live close to God in heaven. JESUS SAY"MY PEACE I GIVE TO YOU NOT AS THE WORLD GIVETH.

malvisguy212:
why will you send peace and blessing of God to someone who live in the present of God? Or are you not sure he was in heaven? You cannot give your peace to someone who live close to God in heaven. JESUS SAY"MY PEACE I GIVE TO YOU NOT AS THE WORLD GIVETH.

I'm not really interested talking to you. I see tola9ja and rilwayne01 dealt with you a million times. I'm not here for that. This is not your area of expertise. Sorry, darling.

Empiree:
I'm not really interested talking to you. I see tola9ja and rilwayne01 dealt with you a million times. I'm not here for that. This is not your area of expertise.Sorry, darling.

Q2:171
The example of those who disbelieve is like that of one who shouts at what hears nothing but calls and cries cattle or sheep - deaf, dumb and blind, so they do not understand
Q2:18

Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path]

Empiree:
I'm not really interested talking to you. I see tola9ja and rilwayne01 dealt with you a million times. I'm not here for that. This is not your area of expertise.Sorry, darling.

you don't want to confront the truth.the two name you mention, non of them were able to make a comment on my thread, ask them why.

Smoking Guns

However, sometimes i feel i am having a pipe dream. For one, only enlightenment and honesty will plant the seed for reform. There is too much ignorance and hypocrisy in the Muslim world for the seeds of reform to germinate. It is disappointing to note that many Muslims claim to be anti-ISIS, anti-Boko Haram, and blame the likes of Pamella Geller for painting all Muslims with one brush as terrors.
However in the Muslim world, where Islamism is the dominant theme, all Jews/Christians are painted evil with one brush, condemned as evil doers, enemies of Muslims, so filfthy that they musn't be allowed near the 'Holy Cities', deserving humiliation and subjugation by 'Jizya'.

The Muslim world is still offended and cannot get over the execution of Osama Bin Ladin or Saddam Hussein, yet these are men who persecuted and massacred innocent people.
On the flipside, several Muslims like Muhammad Taha, Farag Foda who lead peaceful movement, promoting justice, human rights, tolerance and freedom as Islamic values have been killed by mainstream Muslim authorities like the Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Wahhabi regimes. The Muslim world doesn't give a damn about these men.


TOPIC TO BE COMPLETED

Empiree:
Poor translation?. You have "correct translation?. This is not intermidiary thing. You talking about Arab pagans. I am talking about muslims here. No muslim believe direct contact with God is impossible. Thats false. Hadith you quoted has nothing to do with "direct contact". What do you think attracts non muslims to come to islam most?. Isnt direct contact?. When is comes to worship, basically, direct connection is what what it is in salat. It even seems to me that you dont fully understand concept of worship from salutation of the prophet. Salutation of the prophet (saw) is highly recommended. Sura 33:56 is God's command on believers. It's not shirk friend

I don't care what orthodox Muslims say, i am interested in their teachings. As the hadith stated, your faith insist that only upon sending greetings to Muhammad does prayer reaches God. This is not direct contact, Muhammad is like the mediator here.
See;

Abu Hurayrah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, “There is not one of you who sends his greetings upon me except that Allah returns the soul to my body (in the grave) and I return his greeting.” [Abu Dawood, Saheeh Al-Albani]

As in, Muhammad returns the greeting and the prayer is able to reach God according to the first hadith i cited.

usermane:


I don't care what orthodox Muslims say, i am interested in their teachings. As the hadith stated, your faith insist that only upon sending greetings to Muhammad does prayer reaches God. This is not direct contact, Muhammad is like the mediator here.
See;



As in, Muhammad returns the greeting and the prayer is able to reach God according to the first hadith i cited.

And what's above hadith you cited has to do with WORSHIP?. Is this inguistic problem you have or what. Sending SALUTATIONS/GREETINGS is now tantamount to WORSHIP?. Billions of muslims are idolators.......is that your conclusion?