VolvoS60:



^^^^
Very poor response. This thread has been remarkably focused on the issues that matter, and the posters here clearly have a technical background and some experience in the power sector. The posts here have been long on detail, which is what Nigerians require. No unnecessary, empty rhetoric. More threads should be like this.

Osinbajo is only a man. His being a lawyer and a SAN have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the key issues being discussed here. If his plan for the power sector has holes, are you saying these holes shouldn't be pointed out?

mentorandfriend:
I'm a medical doctor. I cant claim to know all, but judging the astuteness of a lawyer by his knowledge and dynamics of the workings of national energy generation and power is quite misplaced, just like you cant judge my intelligence by my knowledge of the banking system; but I can say some things or more because I read journals and financial publications. When I do say the little I know, dont turn it into a big campaign of inadequacy thingy. By the way, Osinbajo will not head the power sector, will he? Please.

Ovamboland:


Op your analysis is wrong there is something called CNG (compressed natural gas) supplied by trucks from Sango-otta,Ogun state to factories in Ibadan and to Lagos IPPs in Akute

Such plants are quick to deliver once the basic dsign is done it can be adapted with detailing to different locations and constructed and commissioned in 1 year maximum, imagine towns like Ikire, Umudike, Kotangora, Aramoko, having 10MW plants each with 320Bn naira only, 100 small towns will have constant power so farmers, artisans, and produce processing be started without waiting for laying expensive and time consuming pipelines and high tension cables a step down transformers.

The professors idea is actually a brillant quick fix to provide power quickly country wide while waiting for the natural gas pipeline reaches the towns and then you can such town off truck supply and shorten the CNG transport distance by compressing gas at the nearest reach of the pipeline. This can continue until the national grid pipeline network reaches at least the towns and cities and the cost of compression and trucking will stop. This will be far cheaper than petrol and diesel generator we currently depend on.

I should know because i prepared a technical bid for the design and construction one of the Lagos IPPs.

As regards the cost, a small plant will cost a bit more than a larger plant simply because of economy of scale, simple economics, but in the context of the decentralized plan, you will make up from savings on transmission cost over long distances, heavy duty switches, circuit breakers and transformers. And minister of power just this week announced that he needs $2Billion to generate 1 MW!!!

Always do your research very well before you riducle yourself in a public forum

Ovamboland:
[/quote]
I see you edited your post. Interesting points. But they further expose you.


[quote author=Ovamboland post=30648082]
The professors idea is actually a brillant quick fix to provide power quickly country wide while waiting for the natural gas pipeline reaches the towns and then you can such town off truck supply and shorten the CNG transport distance by compressing gas at the nearest reach of the pipeline. This can continue until the national grid pipeline network reaches at least the towns and cities and the cost of compression and trucking will stop. This will be far cheaper than petrol and diesel generator we currently depend on.

Ovamboland:

As regards the cost, a small plant will cost a bit more than a larger plant simply because of economy of scale, simple economics,

Ovamboland:

And minister of power just this week announced that he needs $2Billion to generate 1 MW!!!

Ovamboland:

Always do your research very well before you riducle yourself in a public forum

Ovamboland:


Op your analysis is wrong there is something called CNG (compressed natural gas) supplied by trucks from Sango-otta,Ogun state to factories in Ibadan and to Lagos IPPs in Akute

Such plants are quick to deliver once the basic dsign is done it can be adapted with detailing to different locations and constructed and commissioned in 1 year maximum, imagine towns like Ikire, Umudike, Kotangora, Aramoko, having 10MW plants each with 320Bn naira only, 100 small towns will have constant power so farmers, artisans, and produce processing be started without waiting for laying expensive and time consuming pipelines and high tension cables a step down transformers.

The professors idea is actually a brillant quick fix to provide power quickly country wide while waiting for the natural gas pipeline reaches the towns and then you can such town off truck supply and shorten the CNG transport distance by compressing gas at the nearest reach of the pipeline. This can continue until the national grid pipeline network reaches at least the towns and cities and the cost of compression and trucking will stop. This will be far cheaper than petrol and diesel generator we currently depend on.

I should know because i prepared a technical bid for the design and construction one of the Lagos IPPs.

As regards the cost, a small plant will cost a bit more than a larger plant simply because of economy of scale, simple economics, but in the context of the decentralized plan, you will make up from savings on transmission cost over long distances, heavy duty switches, circuit breakers and transformers. And minister of power just this week announced that he needs $2Billion to generate 1 MW!!!

Always do your research very well before you riducle yourself in a public forum

tswitch:



I am surprised you claim to be an engineer and have the term "quick fix" in your post.
Every Engineering student/graduate or practising Engineers knows- DESIGN AND BUILD TO LAST!
Quick points:
1. NG can only be transported by CNG "truck" to small and medium scale users.

2. The only viable option to transport large MMSCFD of NG remains a network of pipeline for obvious reasons like cost,reduce human error, automation,reliability,feasibility,viability etc.
Due to the large volume the gas is liquefied as LNG, note not CNG.

3. As we use to say in design- nothing is new,we only model according to specifications.
On you doing the design for an IPP, which stage of the design where you involved in? Conceptual? FEED? The whole universe knows design is team work and many disciplines are involves.So tell us your discipline so we can better understand reasons for your obvious lack of knowledge.

4. I still follow energy news and can categorically say you are lying on the Prof. for reasons best known to you,anyway don't forget he is also a priest........

5. How does an 8.8MW IPP eg Lagos Mainland(with only about 5MW generated by the gas turbine and the other MW generates by a diesel generator) feature in the grand scheme of power generation? Even a retard will be raise an eyebrow to the amount of billions sunk into an obviousky flawed plant. Why LSG did not save tax payers money and model power generation plans of heavy industries like Nestle, Cadbury since they generate almost same amount of electricity beats all imagination.

For the Inquisitive audience no FGN owned IPP has a capacity less than 120MW (some constructed by Siemens equipment by GE and none run with diesel generator like the Lagos State runned IPP -Ikeja)
Another obvious fact is if you scale the cost of any Lagos State owned IPP to any of the FGN owned IPP you get almost twice the cost of the FGN own. Simply meaning the cost of a LSG owned 112.5MW may as well build and maintain an FGN owned 200MW plant.
Google for verification.


I advise to the Professor of law - face law and legal matters only since an obvious nitwit is your power sector consultant.

kay1one2:
The man will supply gas to power stations using trucks! See ode!

BodyKiss:


How is gas supplied in filling station? You're the ode here.

ogb5:
Voting in knowledgeable people is one of the beauty of democracy. This has been well developed by the advanced democracies in the west. To ensure that the nation elects the right people with the right skills, experience and qualifications, politicians are normally grilled on a range of subjects to gauge their understanding of the issues affecting their countries or constituency as the case may be.

In this vein looking at the power policy thrust of the APC as being put forward by no other person than their vice presidential candidate bring to fore some gross deficiency in the policy of the APC on power and shows that professor Osinbajo does not know what power generation entails.

The APC vice has consistently said that their government will improve power supply, the question is how will they do that.
The answer to the question of 'how' was answered by Osinbajo on Tuesday in Ondo during a town hall session. This is what he had to say.

1. They will decentralise power generation.
2. The decentralised power plants will have gas supplied to them by trucks instead of pipelines
3. They will copy the model of power plants already established in Lagos state.

herein lies the ignorance of the professor, also hidden in the rhetoric of the professor is the avenue for looting the treasury.
1. Power generation has been decentralised. Anyone, be it federal government, state government, local government or private companies can now set up power generation plant and sell such produced power as they deem fit. So Osinbajo should tell us something different.

2. Technically you can not supply a power plant like the one in Lagos with gas using trucks. This simply mean the professor and those formulating his policy on power generation knows nothing about power generation. The Lagos plant uses natural gas, that is another theme for methane gas. Industrially methane has 2 means of being transported, by pipelines when the point of use is less than 5,000 km and as liquefied natural gas by ships followed by re gasification when the point of use is more than 5, 000 km from the point of production. The gas supplied by trucks is liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) used for domestic cooking. No country in the world bases her power generation on LPG. Moreover Nigeria does not have the facility to produce adequate LPG to cater for domestic cooking, so using LPG for power generation is out of the question. So Osinbajo promising to supply gas to power plants with trucks is simply talking about something that is not possible.

3. Osinbajo promised to model his modular power plants after the Lagos power plant. Simply put, the Lagos power plant is among the most expensive gas fired power plant in the world. The Ikeja modular power plant has an installed capacity of 10 megawatts and was built at a cost of 3.2 billion Naira. That was equivalent to about 2 billion usd per gigawatt of electricity. Globally the benchmark cost for gas fired power plants is 1 billion usd per gigawatt of electricity, the Ikeja plant cost twice the global benchmark for such plants. By planning to go with the Lagos model, Osinbajo is telling us the will deliver power at twice the global benchmark cost, and at a cost far higher than the current government is delivering power projects. Several gas fired power plants delivered by the current government in the last 4 yrs were delivered at less than 1 . 3 billion usd per gigawatt.

So Osinbajo has no clue about power generation, he is simply spooling out impossible promises to confuse the electorates. Worse part is that he is a pastor that is supposed to stand by the truth, how will he face God at the end of the day after telling blatant lies on the campaign trail.

http://www.punchng.com/news/apc-will-slash-tariffs-on-imported-cars-osinbajo/

ogb5:
Voting in knowledgeable people is one of the beauty of democracy. This has been well developed by the advanced democracies in the west. To ensure that the nation elects the right people with the right skills, experience and qualifications, politicians are normally grilled on a range of subjects to gauge their understanding of the issues affecting their countries or constituency as the case may be.

In this vein looking at the power policy thrust of the APC as being put forward by no other person than their vice presidential candidate bring to fore some gross deficiency in the policy of the APC on power and shows that professor Osinbajo does not know what power generation entails.

The APC vice has consistently said that their government will improve power supply, the question is how will they do that.
The answer to the question of 'how' was answered by Osinbajo on Tuesday in Ondo during a town hall session. This is what he had to say.

1. They will decentralise power generation.
2. The decentralised power plants will have gas supplied to them by trucks instead of pipelines
3. They will copy the model of power plants already established in Lagos state.

herein lies the ignorance of the professor, also hidden in the rhetoric of the professor is the avenue for looting the treasury.
1. Power generation has been decentralised. Anyone, be it federal government, state government, local government or private companies can now set up power generation plant and sell such produced power as they deem fit. So Osinbajo should tell us something different.

2. Technically you can not supply a power plant like the one in Lagos with gas using trucks. This simply mean the professor and those formulating his policy on power generation knows nothing about power generation. The Lagos plant uses natural gas, that is another theme for methane gas. Industrially methane has 2 means of being transported, by pipelines when the point of use is less than 5,000 km and as liquefied natural gas by ships followed by re gasification when the point of use is more than 5, 000 km from the point of production. The gas supplied by trucks is liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) used for domestic cooking. No country in the world bases her power generation on LPG. Moreover Nigeria does not have the facility to produce adequate LPG to cater for domestic cooking, so using LPG for power generation is out of the question. So Osinbajo promising to supply gas to power plants with trucks is simply talking about something that is not possible.

3. Osinbajo promised to model his modular power plants after the Lagos power plant. Simply put, the Lagos power plant is among the most expensive gas fired power plant in the world. The Ikeja modular power plant has an installed capacity of 10 megawatts and was built at a cost of 3.2 billion Naira. That was equivalent to about 2 billion usd per gigawatt of electricity. Globally the benchmark cost for gas fired power plants is 1 billion usd per gigawatt of electricity, the Ikeja plant cost twice the global benchmark for such plants. By planning to go with the Lagos model, Osinbajo is telling us the will deliver power at twice the global benchmark cost, and at a cost far higher than the current government is delivering power projects. Several gas fired power plants delivered by the current government in the last 4 yrs were delivered at less than 1 . 3 billion usd per gigawatt.

So Osinbajo has no clue about power generation, he is simply spooling out impossible promises to confuse the electorates. Worse part is that he is a pastor that is supposed to stand by the truth, how will he face God at the end of the day after telling blatant lies on the campaign trail.

http://www.punchng.com/news/apc-will-slash-tariffs-on-imported-cars-osinbajo/

tswitch:



I am surprised you claim to be an engineer and have the term "quick fix" in your post.
Every Engineering student/graduate or practising Engineers knows- DESIGN AND BUILD TO LAST!
Quick points:
1. NG can only be transported by CNG "truck" to small and medium scale industry users.

2. The only viable option to transport large MMSCFD of NG required to sustainably run any electric power generating gas turbine remains a network of pipelines for obvious reasons like cost,reduce human error, automation,reliability,feasibility,viability etc.
Due to the large volume the gas is liquefied as LNG, note not CNG.

3. As we use to say in design- nothing is new,we only model according to specifications.
On you doing the design for an IPP, which stage of the design where you involved in? Conceptual? FEED? The whole universe knows design is team work and many disciplines are involves.So tell us your discipline so we can better understand reasons for your obvious lack of knowledge.

4. I still follow energy news and can categorically say you are lying on the Prof. for reasons best known to you,anyway don't forget he is also a priest........

5. How does an 8.8MW IPP eg Lagos Mainland(with only about 5MW generated by the gas turbine and the other MW generates by a diesel generator) feature in the grand scheme of power generation? Even a retard will be raise an eyebrow to the amount of billions sunk into an obviousky flawed plant. Why LSG did not save tax payers money and model power generation plans of heavy industries like Nestle, Cadbury since they generate almost same amount of electricity beats all imagination.

For the Inquisitive audience no FGN owned IPP has a capacity less than 120MW (some constructed by Siemens equipment by GE and none run with diesel generator like the Lagos State runned IPP -Ikeja)
Another obvious fact is if you scale the cost of any Lagos State owned IPP to any of the FGN owned IPP you get almost twice the cost of the FGN own. Simply meaning the cost of a LSG owned 112.5MW may as well build and maintain an FGN owned 200MW plant.
Google for verification.


One advise to the Professor of law - face law and legal matters only since an obvious nitwit is your power sector consultant.

ogb5:


It will be very foolish for anyone to supply a 10MW power plant with CNG using trucks. 10MW plant will supply only 3333 household with power at the Global average power rate of 3KW per household. If you have an average of 6 people per household that will mean your wonderful plant will only supply only 20,000 people. There is no town in Nigeria with only 20,000 people. You have not looked into the power required by businesses in these communities where you intend to put the plan. so for a small town with 200,000 people, you will need 10 of such power plants, with pressurised gas trucks running grids all over the city. Not workable!

And how do you intend to supply compressed Natural gas with trucks to power plants in Adamawa or Bornu or Sokoto, you want to truck gas from Warri or Portharcourt daily to those places?

Also to transport Compressed Natural gas with trucks, you need trucks fitted with high pressure vessels to act as container for the compressed gas. One thing with high pressure vessels is that they are very heavy. You will simply find yourself in a situation where a 50 ton truck only delivers 5 ton of gas due to the heavy container required for the gas. It is not workable, engineering has nmoved far beyond that phase, we now have pipelines for transporting compressed natural gas cheaply and efficiently.

Mr man. You can build a compressed natural gas plant for a small factory in Ibadan which does not have much alternative choice on power generation, but Nigeria has choices, we have gas pipelines that delivers gas from the Niger delta all the way to Abuja and to Ghana

ogb5:


It will be very foolish for anyone to supply a 10MW power plant with CNG using trucks. 10MW plant will supply only 3333 household with power at the Global average power rate of 3KW per household. If you have an average of 6 people per household that will mean your wonderful plant will only supply only 20,000 people. There is no town in Nigeria with only 20,000 people. You have not looked into the power required by businesses in these communities where you intend to put the plan. so for a small town with 200,000 people, you will need 10 of such power plants, with pressurised gas trucks running grids all over the city. Not workable!

J12:


I've checked and you're right about the Marina IPP using CNG.

Howver, you can appreciate that Osinbade's plan is unfeasible because
1. Osinbajo wants to create modular power plants all over Nigeria.
2. Transporting CNGs through trucks to all modular power plants will an exhaustive load of resources.
3. Modular power plants are expensive to maintain and they don't last long.
4. It is finacially not feasible to use those type of power plants for our electricity needs.

Under the marina IPP, an 18km pipeline was constructed to feed the plant with constant gas supply. CNG's can't go farer in a pipeline. Which was why I initially doubted if they were used for power plants.
Also, the marina and akute IPP generate only 10mw each.

GiantParrot:

I see you edited your post. Interesting points. But they further expose you.
I'll not bother with this until you provide answers to the questions by J12 on it.
It is true that the unit cost of a small plant will be A BIT more than that of a large plant as a result of economies of scale.
Your power plant costs N320b to install 10MW generating capacity = N32Billion per MW
The Omotosho phase 1 thermal power plant cost $166,724,578 to install 335MW generating capacity = N99.54Million per MW (using $1 = 200). http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/03/fg-sells-omotosho-power-plant-to-chinese-investors/


Funny that you really need to start taking your own advice.

Developing microgrids powered by compressed natural gas (CNG) and increasing CNG as a vehicle fuel, especially for heavy duty vehicles like the trucks that transport our food from farm to market and move good through the economy, is a cost effective, managed approach to generating incremental improvements to our energy security situation. CNG microgrids are a partial solution to the interrelated problems of producing electricity and fueling vehicles when a casualty strikes the primary electrical grid. The steps outlined in this article will not entirely resolve these challenges, but it is argued that they can make significant, rapid contributions to two interrelated problems – the vulnerability of our electrical grid and the high (and rising) costs (both financial and environmental) of reliance on gasoline and diesel as primary transportation fuels. CNG vehicle fueling is a potential “killer app” providing an economic incentive to invest in conversion of existing vehicles to run on CNG or purchase of new CNG vehicles, and invest in the fueling infrastructure necessary to take advantage of the cost savings CNG offers.

Ovamboland:


I have directly relied on the OP figure though without verification that the plant in Lagos Island IPP marina cost 3.2 Billion naira for the 10 MW capacity, yet some people come here to say it cost 320 Billion or 32 Billion per MW which is clearly false. You do not win an argument by presenting false information, like the below post, remember intelligent people are also reading this thread.

Ovamboland:

Such plants are quick to deliver once the basic dsign is done it can be adapted with detailing to different locations and constructed and commissioned in 1 year maximum, imagine towns like Ikire, Umudike, Kotangora, Aramoko, having 10MW plants each with 320Bn naira only, 100 small towns will have constant power so farmers, artisans, and produce processing be started without waiting for laying expensive and time consuming pipelines and high tension cables a step down transformers.

thaoriginator:
Another r'etarded junkie on the loose

GiantParrot:


I don't understand you o. The way you change figures is amazing.



#modified. I see you've altered your post where you initially claimed you know this because you prepared a technical bid for one of the plants. But you forgot to remove the N320b you wrote. Well, that post is still captured in my very first mention of you.

ogb5:
Voting in knowledgeable people is one of the beauty of democracy. This has been well developed by the advanced democracies in the west. To ensure that the nation elects the right people with the right skills, experience and qualifications, politicians are normally grilled on a range of subjects to gauge their understanding of the issues affecting their countries or constituency as the case may be.

In this vein looking at the power policy thrust of the APC as being put forward by no other person than their vice presidential candidate bring to fore some gross deficiency in the policy of the APC on power and shows that professor Osinbajo does not know what power generation entails.

The APC vice has consistently said that their government will improve power supply, the question is how will they do that.
The answer to the question of 'how' was answered by Osinbajo on Tuesday in Ondo during a town hall session. This is what he had to say.

1. They will decentralise power generation.
2. The decentralised power plants will have gas supplied to them by trucks instead of pipelines
3. They will copy the model of power plants already established in Lagos state.

herein lies the ignorance of the professor, also hidden in the rhetoric of the professor is the avenue for looting the treasury.
1. Power generation has been decentralised. Anyone, be it federal government, state government, local government or private companies can now set up power generation plant and sell such produced power as they deem fit. So Osinbajo should tell us something different.

2. Technically you can not supply a power plant like the one in Lagos with gas using trucks. This simply mean the professor and those formulating his policy on power generation knows nothing about power generation. The Lagos plant uses natural gas, that is another theme for methane gas. Industrially methane has 2 means of being transported, by pipelines when the point of use is less than 5,000 km and as liquefied natural gas by ships followed by re gasification when the point of use is more than 5, 000 km from the point of production. The gas supplied by trucks is liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) used for domestic cooking. No country in the world bases her power generation on LPG. Moreover Nigeria does not have the facility to produce adequate LPG to cater for domestic cooking, so using LPG for power generation is out of the question. So Osinbajo promising to supply gas to power plants with trucks is simply talking about something that is not possible.

3. Osinbajo promised to model his modular power plants after the Lagos power plant. Simply put, the Lagos power plant is among the most expensive gas fired power plant in the world. The Ikeja modular power plant has an installed capacity of 10 megawatts and was built at a cost of 3.2 billion Naira. That was equivalent to about 2 billion usd per gigawatt of electricity. Globally the benchmark cost for gas fired power plants is 1 billion usd per gigawatt of electricity, the Ikeja plant cost twice the global benchmark for such plants. By planning to go with the Lagos model, Osinbajo is telling us the will deliver power at twice the global benchmark cost, and at a cost far higher than the current government is delivering power projects. Several gas fired power plants delivered by the current government in the last 4 yrs were delivered at less than 1 . 3 billion usd per gigawatt.

So Osinbajo has no clue about power generation, he is simply spooling out impossible promises to confuse the electorates. Worse part is that he is a pastor that is supposed to stand by the truth, how will he face God at the end of the day after telling blatant lies on the campaign trail.

http://www.punchng.com/news/apc-will-slash-tariffs-on-imported-cars-osinbajo/

kokosheen:


this is about the most ignorant post on NL today... dude, you know absolutely nothing about LPG, NG, LNG or LNG so don't write what you don't know about please!!!

netotse:
I AM AROUND . Can't remember when last I was this excited...this thread is proving to be different from the usual threads where electricity is discussed...let me weigh in...

@Ovamboland
Do you have any idea what the unit cost of gas for power is in naija?
Do you have any idea what the unit cost of CNG is in naija?
Do you have any idea what the unit cost of electricity is for the lagos IPPs?
Do you have any idea what the unit cost of electricity is for the grid?

The reason why I ask is because anything is possible in engineering, but the key goal is to produce a cost effective solution. Is Osinbajo trying to give Nigerians power at all costs? or power at affordable costs? Per chance you choose at all costs, where will he get the money to fund said distributed power from?

P.S. I've decided to stay back at work just because of this thread...na so e dey sweet me reach.

P.P.S I have a word document open on my computer now, depending on your answer, I will start posting info from said document

netotse:


Oga, I know a bit about all the gases you wrote up there and I agree with what he wrote, re-educate me

Ovamboland:


NG - Natural gas at pipeline quality is mainly Methane at about 17 Bar pressure

LPG - Mixture of Butane and Propane in different proportion mainly used for domestic purpose

CNG - natural gas mainly Methane compressed to about 240 Bar in order to transport larger quantity per volume

LNG - mainly Methane refrigerated to cryogenic temperatures - 162°C and transported over long distance as liquids to be regassified as destination

NGL - mixture of hydrocarbon gases C1 to C12 to be further processed to constitients

netotse:


Oga, I know a bit about all the gases you wrote up there and I agree with what he wrote, re-educate me