Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? - Religion (7) - Nairaland
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| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Empiree: 4:43am On Apr 19, 2015 |
truthman2012:Lol, the verse is definitely not talking about you. You dont worship Allah(God), the Lord of the universe. You worship human (man-god), you believe in doctrine contrary to doctrine brought by Jesus (the worship of One God), some of you worship Mary, some of you worship son. So definitely that verse is not talking about you and 2 billion Christians. You applied literal approach to this ayah. But here, we are dealing with exegesis. There are several tafsir of the ayah(read below). The Qur'an makes it an article of faith to believe in Allah and all the messengers. This includes Prophet Muhammad. According to the Qur'an, when Moses came with the Taurat, it was necessary to follow him, when Jesus came with the Injil, it was necessary to leave the laws of Moses and follow him. Finally, when Muhammad came with the Qur'an, it became necessary to leave the teachings of Jesus and follow Islam. And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter. These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful. Qur'an 2:4-5 [size=15pt]Tafsir Ibn Abbas[/size] [size=15pt]Tafsir Ibn Kathir[/size] Ali bin Abi Talhah narrated from Ibn Abbas, about, Please read further tafsir from other mufassir of the verse you quoted from the link below. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Christians_Jews_and_Muslims_in_Heaven#Tafsir_Ibn_Abbas 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by truthman2012(m): 7:51am On Apr 19, 2015 |
Empiree: All your explanations here are real nonsense. The issue is a straight forward one that requires no twisting you made. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve (Quran 2:62 YusufAli). Now, the questions are: Allah knew what the Jews believed, didn't he? Allah knew what the Christians believed, didn't he? In fact, he accused the Christians of worshiping Jesus and Mary (Quran 5:116). With the full knowledge of the Jews and Christians belief, he still said: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve (Quran 2:62). Later, allah discovered that in his efforts to deceive the people, he had made a mistake in quran 2:62, he had to reverse his statement in: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Qur'an 3:85 Can you see the kind of god you worship? A god that is never consistent. There are so many of such reversals in allahh's words - the quran. Check, https://www.nairaland.com/2260353/muslims-why-did-fail-probe The truth is allahh is not the God of heaven. He is satan in disguise who pretended as the God of the bible prophets to deceive humanity. Unfortunately, you happen to be one of the 1.8 billion muslims he has successfully deceived. Sorry for you. May you be set free in Jesus name. 1 Like |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Empiree: 9:00am On Apr 19, 2015 |
^keep dreaming in la la land^ |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by truthman2012(m): 12:07pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
Empiree: Smh! |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Nobody: 1:52pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
truthman2012: "Among their brethren", the Jews and Arabs are brothers dumbo! Isaac and Ishmael, remember? Moses also fought battles! Is he a killer too? Did Jesus bring any new laws? No! Muhammad did! Do you even read your bible? Don't you read all the atrocities Moses and his men were said to have done? Including killing children and raping 3 year olds? Shame on you! And just because your pot bellied masters told you this refers to Jesus, doesn't mean it's so! That's just their blind way of interpreting it or they are just lying to you! Capital letter or not! I don't care! So God came from Palestine? Prophets aren't holy now? What makes Muhammad a sinner? The statement was made before Muhammad of Course! That's what makes it a prediction! So you actually think the Jewish and christian NATIONS are different? Lmao! Even a christian would cringe if he hears that! Tell me when Israel and Israel became two separate nations? And when Jews and Jews became two separate people? This really made me laugh. I guess of all the verses I gave, these are the few you could leaven try to defend! You failed horribly BTW! The others you ran away from you termed as nonsense because face it! You can't really defend them! How about you go and ponder what I have shown you so far! Remember these were all predictions! If Jesus was already there in some of those verses then why predict someone who's already there? That's just stupid. You can accept the true faith or you can go back to worshipping the one eyed sun god you call your God, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did tell us that the anti Christ has one eye after all! 2 Likes |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by truthman2012(m): 2:06pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
EzioAuditore: I know you cannot understand. Your case needs deliverance because you have been brainwashed. I pity your condition. 1 Like |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Nobody: 2:22pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
truthman2012: This not the matter of deliverance or brain washing, when this sort of arguments happen, you have to back up your claims with facts! That's all I have done but that's all you've failed to do! I really want you to please rethink about my post about Horus! The ONE EYED SUN GOD! you go to church on SUNday, pictures of Jesus always comes with a SUN! There are 15 pagan gods that have been supposedly crucified and they all came before Jesus! I am focusing on HORUS because of the ONE EYE part of his myth and he shares more similarities than any other He was born of a Virgin, same number of disciples! The whole shabang! Same as the Jesus Christ you worship! Remember they all CAME BEFORE JESUS! This is what the prophet tells us about the anti Christ, this is a description that no other prophet before him gave. The Prophet said, “No prophet was sent but that he warned his followers against the one-eyed liar (Ad-Dajjal). Beware! He is blind in ONE EYE and your Lord is not so, and there will be written between his (Ad-Dajjal’s) eyes (the word) Kafir (i.e., disbeliever).” (This Hadith is also quoted by Abu Huraira and Ibn ‘Abbas). This can't be a coincidence! 1 Like |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by malvisguy212: 2:35pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
EzioAuditore:In Insanu’l Uyun as quoted in Mean’s Haqq, page 346, we can read a report by Zaid ibn Thabith (Muhammad’s secretary) saying: “Once his leg fell upon mine, and, by Allah, there is no such heavy leg as was that of the Apostle of Allah…. As often as the Prophet received inspiration, it seemed as if his SOUL WAS BEING TAKEN FROM HIM, for he had always a kind of swoon and looked like one INTOXICATED .” Mastery in the Qur’anic Sciences, by al- Suyuti, 1:45-46: Zaid b.Thabit said:“ When the inspiration came down upon Muhammad, he himself became heavier. One time, his thigh fell against my thigh, and I swear to God, I have never found anything that was heavier than the thigh of Muhammad. Whenever the inspiration came upon him, while he was on his camel, it limped, and its leg was thought to be broken; and sometimes it squatted.” These forms of behavior were not exhibited by any of the prophets of the true God. And we can be very sure that God did not send the angel Gabriel to Muhammad. According to the definition provided in a legal dictionary a character witness is a person who testifies in a trial on behalf of a person as to that person’s good ethical qualities and morality both by the personal knowledge of the witness and the person’s reputation in the community. Such testimony is primarily relevant when the party’s honesty or morality is an issue, particularly in most criminal cases and civil cases such as fraud. In many of the verses in the Qur’an, we can read what the inhabitants of Mecca thought about Muhammad. Those who knew him best,his neighbors called him a madman, a mad poet, demon- possessed and a magician. He was viewed as a bewitched poet under some spell. His was not the impression of a normal man to the Meccans, but that of a mentally disturbed person who often fell into a trance. Let us consider some Qur’anic verses to prove our point. Surah 10:2: Is it a matter of wonderment to men that We have sent Our inspiration to a man from among themselves? – That he should warn mankind (of their danger), and give the good news to the Believers that they have before their Lord the lofty rank of truth. (But) say the Unbelievers: “This is indeed an EVIDENT SORCERER!” (Yusuf Ali) Surah 15:6: “And they say: O thou unto whom the Reminder is revealed, lo! Thou art indeed a MADMAN!” (Pickthall) Surah 17:47-48: We are fully aware of what they wish to hear when they listen to you; and what they say when they converse in private; and when the wrongdoers say, You are only following a man who is BEWITCHED ! See to what they liken you to! (W. Khan) Surah 25:8: And the evildoers say, ‘The man you follow is simply under a SPELL.’ (A. Haleem) Surah 37:35-36: “For when it was said unto them, There is no god save Allah, they were scornful and said: Shall we forsake our gods for a mad poet?” (Pickthall) Surah 38:4: They are surprised that a Warner should come to them from among themselves. They say, ‘This is a magician, a great liar.’ (W. Khan) Surah 44:14: Yet they turn away from him and say: “Tutored by others, a man possessed!” (Yusuf Ali) Allah had to reassure Muhammad’s companions: Surah 81:22: Your companion (Muhammad) does not suffer from any mental illness. (Sarwar) Even more disturbing is the fact that Allah himself had to reassure Muhammad that he is not mad or possessed. Something must be seriously wrong for Muhammad to be comforted in this manner. Surah 52:29-30: Therefore, proclaim thou the praises (of thy Lord): for by the Grace of thy Lord, thou art no (vulgar) soothsayer, nor art thou one possessed. Or do they say: – “A Poet! We await for him some calamity (hatched) by Time!” (Yusuf Ali) Surah 68:2: Thou art not, by the Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed. (Yusuf Ali) Muhammad’s contemporaries saw him as a demon possessed sorcerer who fabricated scriptures. Naturally, all of these Qur’anic verses are trying to prove that Muhammad was not possessed. However, in the process, the Qur’an inadvertently reveals the opinion of the contemporaries of Muhammad based on their observation of his behavior. Since the strange conduct of Muhammad is not denied in the Qur’an and the Hadith, Muslims try to explain away his actions by giving a spiritual explanation to it. But in actual fact, Muhammad himself exhibited fear and doubt concerning the manner in which he received his revelations. The evidences from Muslim sources themselves point to the conclusion that: (1) The revelations Muhammad actually received, did not come from Jehovah, the true God. (2) The spirit that spoke to Muhammad is clearly not the angel Gabriel but an impersonating demon that delivered contradictory messages to Muhammad. Muhammad was deceived and victimized by the impersonating spirit because he was unacquainted with the knowledge of the true God. Lacking knowledge, he believed every utterance of this spirit. (3) The spirit that spoke to Muhammad motivated him to commit gross acts of wickedness and indecency. Please consider the evidences provided below. |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by malvisguy212: 2:52pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
EzioAuditore:you can believe a lie, did the quran not mention the virgin birth? Should we say the quran copied it from the pagans? As a matter of facts Islam is the continuation of pagan religion. All what you wrote are without scripture backing. But let me support my claimed from quran and hadith that say muhammed retain the pagan worship system; Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 23: Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman: I asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca). Anas replied, “WE USED TO CONSIDER (i.e. going around) THEM A CUSTOM OF THE PRE-ISLAMIC a custom of the Pre-Islamic period of Ignorance, so when Islam came, we gave up going around them. Then Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the Symbols of Allah. So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to ambulate (Tawaf) between them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote] Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As- Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around them ( as the pagan custom is).” (Pickthall) How can the very same two mountains that were sacred to the pagans become the “Symbols of Allah” all of a sudden? Moreover, how is it that the very same pagan ritual of running between the two hills is also retained in Islam? In addition, why was the Arab pagan ritual of going around the Ka’ba seven times, also retained in Islam? In the Hindu marriage rite of Saptapadi, the married couple circumnavigate the fire seven times. In the Islamic ritual of Tawaf, Muslims also circumnavigate the Ka’ba seven times. In both of these rituals, religious phrases are repeated during the circumambulation. Some of the rituals that Muslims follow during the Hajj are the same as the rites observed by Hindus in their worship of Shiva. Take note of some of the striking similarities: (1) Both Hindu and Muslim male devotees are required to shave their heads during their pilgrimage. (2) And similar to their Hindu counterparts, male Muslim pilgrims are also required to dress in a garment consisting of two sheets of white cloth. This type of garment is known as Dhoti in Hinduism. (3) Just as the worshippers of Shiva observe a rite in which they walk around their object of reverence seven times, Muslim pilgrims also walk around the Ka’ba seven times. (4) Both their objects of reverence are Black Stones. In Hinduism, the Black Stone is known as Shiva lingam. (5) While Hindus drink water from the Ganga River as part of the sacred rites in their worship of Shiva, Muslims drink from the Well of Zamzam during the Hajj. (6) Additionally, the Crescent moon, which is associated with the Hindu deity Shiva, is also a symbol for Islam. In the Hindu portrayal of the Shiva symbol, the crescent moon is always painted across his forehead. Moreover, in every portrayal of Shiva, there is always a depiction of a snake curled around his neck. Weirdly, in pre-Islamic times, Allah is supposed to have sent a snake to guard the treasures of the Ka’ba. |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by malvisguy212: 3:03pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
EzioAuditore During the early stages of his prophetic career in Mecca, Muhammad and his followers prayed towards Jerusalem. Even after their migration (hijra) to Medina, Muslims continued with this practice for about sixteen to seventeen months. Islamic sources such as the Qur’an, Sira and Tafsir, speak of the change of Qiblah (Kiblah), from the former Qiblah (Jerusalem) to the new Qiblah (Mecca). Thus, Islam’s Qiblah was originally towards Jerusalem. It is only when Muhammad desired to pray towards the Ka’ba in Mecca that Allah, as usual, obliged and revealed the following Qur’anic verse: Surah (Al-Baqarah) 2:144: “We see the turning of thy face for guidance to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque : Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction.” (Yusuf Ali) Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 39: Narrated By Al-Bara’ (bin ‘Azib): When the Prophet came to Medina, he stayed first with his grandfathers or maternal uncles from Ansar. He offered his prayers facing Baitul- Maqdis (Jerusalem) for sixteen or seventeen months, but he wished that he could pray facing the Ka’ba (at Mecca). The first prayer which he offered facing the Ka’ba was the ‘Asr prayer in the company of some people. Then one of those who had offered that prayer with him came out and passed by some people in a mosque who were bowing during their prayers (facing Jerusalem). He said addressing them, “By Allah, I testify that I have prayed with Allah’s Apostle facing Mecca (Ka’ba).” Hearing that, those people changed their direction towards the Ka’ba immediately. Jews and the people of the scriptures used to be pleased to see the Prophet facing Jerusalem in prayers but when he changed his direction towards the Ka’ba, during the prayers, they disapproved of it. Al-Bara’ added, “Before we changed our direction towards the Ka’ba (Mecca) in prayers, some Muslims had died or had been killed and we did not know what to say about them (regarding their prayers.) Allah then revealed: And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. the prayers of those Muslims were valid).'” (2:143). Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 392: Narrated Bara’ bin ‘Azib: Allah’s Apostle prayed facing Baitul- Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen months but he loved to face the Ka’ba (at Mecca) so Allah revealed: “Verily, We have seen the turning of your face to the heaven!” ( Surah 2 Al- Baqarah 144) So the Prophet faced the Ka’ba and the fools amongst the people namely “the Jews” said, “What has turned them from their Qibla (Bait-ul-Maqdis) which they formerly observed” (Allah revealed): “Say: ‘To Allah belongs the East and the West. He guides whom he will to a straight path’.” ( Surah 2 Al-Baqarah 142). Why did Muhammad express a desire to pray facing the Ka’ba while it remained a pagan shrine? At the time when Surah 2:144 was revealed to change the Qiblah from Jerusalem to Mecca, the Ka’ba was still a pagan shrine housing 360 pagan idols. Why would Allah permit his Prophet to bow towards the Ka’ba while it was still polluted with 360 pagan idols? The command given in the Qur’an to change the Qiblah predates by years the conquest of Mecca. Those idols were destroyed only after the conquest of Mecca. Thus, during all those intervening years, between the time the Qiblah was changed towards the Ka’ba and the conquest of Mecca, whenever Muhammad faced the Ka’ba to pray, the Ka’ba remained a shrine of idol- worship. This is not an insignificant matter in terms of worship. Why was Muhammad not commanded to wait until the removal of those idols? Why did Allah submit to Muhammad’s desire and as a result make it a requirement for the early Muslims to bow towards the direction of the pagan idols, whenever they approach him in prayer during all those intervening years? Did not Allah say, “To Allah belongs the East and the West”?Why, then must the prayers of the Muslims be directed towards the pagan shrine in order to reach the ears of Allah? Notice the commanding tone of Allah in Surah 2:144: “Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction.” The following Hadith clearly shows that the idols were destroyed only after the conquest of Mecca which took place several years later after the Qiblah was changed towards the Ka’ba. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 583: Narrated By Abdullah: When the Prophet entered Mecca on the day of the Conquest, there were 360 idols around the Ka’ba. You need more proof? |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Nobody: 4:23pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Here you go exhibiting your ignorance again. We muslims do not worship the kaabah or its contents, it is a focal point for all prayers and since we do not worship its contents, what's your point? Did the muslims call the name of the idols? Did the muslims dedicate their worship to the worship of idols? Did they imitate how the pagans worship their idols? "Actions are judged according to intentions". Again its not the building or the contents that is sacred but rather the location! They called the name of Allah (SWT) the most high. Muhammad long before that told the Meccans that the kaabah should be dedicated for the worship of God. Again, you have no point here. 1 Like |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by malvisguy212: 9:37pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
EzioAuditore:Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675: Narrated by Zaid bin Aslam: From his father who said: “Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner ( Black Stone) saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it.” This is a very revealing statement coming from one who used to be a pagan. Umar’s conversion to monotheism was so absolute that he was able to make the above observation while his Prophet was actually venerating a pagan idol. The reason behind Umar’s reluctance in kissing the Black Stone is that the pagan Arabs also performed this same ritual. However, Umar venerated his Prophet and this eventually led him to venerate the pagan idol. Ultimately, he ended up venerating the Black Stone, Muhammad and Allah. Sheikh Sha’rawi, one of Egypt’s renowned scholars declared in Legal Opinions, pt. 3, p. 167: “The kissing of the meteorite is a firm practice in Islamic law because Muhammad did it. You must not ask about the wisdom behind that because this rite is (an expression) of worship in spite of the obscurity of its wisdom.” Islam’s single most important reason for kissing the Black Stone is that, “Muhammad did it.” Ibn `Umar said: “Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time.” Likewise, `Umar also wept for a long time. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: ‘ O `Umar, this is the place where one should shed tears.”’ (Reported by Al-Hakim who considers it a sound Hadith with a sound chain of authorities) Source: IslamOnline. Muhammad touched and kissed the Black stone. He “placed his lips on it and wept for a long time.” If this is not idolatry, then what is it? In view of his pagan past, Muhammad needed something tangible that connects him to Allah. Thus, he submitted to idolatry. That is why he also stated that the Black Stone “is the place where one should shed tears.” And Umar gave in to blind allegiance. What Muslims failed to take into consideration is that kissing and caressing stone objects were an integral part of the worship that the Arab pagans rendered to their idols. Like Umar, many Muslims blindly follow Muhammad in their veneration of this pagan idol. Historically, Muslims cannot deny the fact that the Black Stone was one among the many stones and idols venerated at the Ka’ba by the pre-Islamic pagans. The Black Stone was kissed during pre-Islamic pagan worship and it is this same stone that Muslims are kissing today when they visit Mecca. Muslims are kissing a stone that was previously used in idolatry. Muslims have no reasons to justify this act of idolatry other than it was done by Muhammad. What divine knowledge or spiritual experience can come from venerating an inanimate object which admittedly is a simple meteorite? Here what the true God say concerning this pagan worship of muslims; Deuteronomy 4:19 clearly states: “You must not raise your eyes to the heavens and indeed see the SUN and the MOON and the STARS, all the army of the heavens, and actually get seduced and bow down to them.” |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Nobody: 11:07pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Do you know what the black stone is? The black stone was a meteorite that was sent down by Allah Almighty to Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon both of them, to give the precise location of where the Kaaba was to be built by them. We believe that Prophets Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba. The black stone is placed in one of the corners of the Kaaba, and it serves as a starting and ending point for the Circumambulation (tawaaf) 7 times around the Kaaba, which is also 100% supported in the Bible's previous Scriptures. All of Islam's Rituals are 100% supported by the previous Scriptures. The black stone was proven to be a Meteorite sent from space. Western Scientists have confirmed that the black stone, which resides near the Kaaba in the Holy City of Mecca, is an outside METEORITE OBJECT! NASA'S CONFIRMATION: ""Stars" falling from the skies have been known since ancient times; rarely, stones are found that were tied to these "shooting stars". One such rock has been venerated by Islam (in its encased shrine in Mecca) for more than 1300 years. By the 19th Century, meteorites were identified correctly as samples from other parts of the Solar System. They are part of the nearly 500 tons of extraterrestrial rock material that reaches and enters the atmosphere each day. Most of that material is burned up by friction from the high speed of entry but meteoric dust can remain in the air and a very few individual blocks of material survive this passage to fall in the sea or on the ground as meteorites." (Source) "The second city of Saudi Arabia is Mecca which contains the holiest shrine in Islam, a great plaza with a rectangular structure containing a meteorite that is considered to have fallen into the Muslim world directly from Heaven. Devout Muslims make the Hajj, a pilgrimage to this shrine required at least once in a lifetime. " Christians regularly to justify their idolatrous practices - such as prayers to Mary and other dolls - by claiming that Muslims "worship" the Black Stone at the Kaaba in Makkah. While there are traditions about kissing or touching the Stone, its real significance is as marker of the point at which one starts the Tawaaf (circumambulation of the Kaaba as part of hajj or omra.) Even the traditions which talk about kissing or touching the stone are VERY CLEAR that the Stone is JUST A STONE! Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said: "Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, 'BY ALLAH! I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A STONE AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.' Then he kissed it and said, 'There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.' 'Umar added, '(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).'" It Is not sacred whatsoever. Let us look at the Bible's sacred black stones: Genesis 28:18 When Jacob got up early the next morning, he took the rock that he had used for a pillow and stood it up for a place of worship. Then he poured olive oil on the rock to dedicate it to God, So here we clearly see that the rock that Jacob, peace be upon him, used for sleeping and resting became a holy object of worship that needed to be anointed by having oil being poured on it. We further read from the Bible about holy stones that GOD Almighty supposedly forbade the believers from even edging or trimming: Exodus 20:25 25 If you ever build an altar for me out of stones, do not use any tools to chisel the stones, because that would make the altar unfit. Other translations of this verse: Exodus 20:25 King James Version (KJV) 25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it. Exodus 20:25 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 25 If you make an altar of stone for Me, you shall not build it of cut stones, for if you wield your tool on it, you will profane it. Exodus 20:25 Revised Standard Version (RSV) 25 And if you make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it of hewn stones; for if you wield your tool upon it you profane it. Exodus 24:4 4 Then Moses wrote down what the Lord had said. The next morning Moses got up early. He built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up a large stone for each of the twelve tribes of Israel. Exodus 25:1-9 The Sacred Tent 1 The Lord said to Moses: 2 Tell everyone in Israel who wants to give gifts that they must bring them to you. 3 Here is a list of what you are to collect: Gold, silver, and bronze; 4 blue, purple, and red wool; fine linen; goat hair; 5 tanned ram skins; fine leather; acacia wood; 6 olive oil for the lamp; sweet-smelling spices to mix with the oil for dedicating the tent and ordaining the priests; 7 and onyx stones for the sacred vest and the breastpiece. 8 I also want them to build a special place where I can live among my people. 9 Make it and its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you. |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Nobody: 11:31pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Safa and marwa are a tribute to when hagar was carrying ishmael and couldn't find water until Allah willed for water to come out for them which they drank from and hence the drinking of the zam zam water! As for the dawaf! Such practices are in the bible! Like I said you don't even read your holy book! As to your claim about the crescent moon, clearly you know nothing about islam! Where in the Quran or hadith does it say that the crescent moon is the symbol for islam? It is a later invention of muslims, that's why some muslims reject it because they consider it bidi'a, I don't know if it qualifies as that but I assure you the crescent moon is not a symbol of islam. Satisfied? |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Nobody: 11:45pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
malvisguy212: A demon? Lmao! A demon that preaches decency amongst men and women? A demon that forbids adultery and fornication? A demon that forbids stealing? A demon that preaches men to lower their gaze of women? A demon that teaches women to cover their bodies? A demon that teaches to destroy idols? A demon that teaches to love one another? A demon that teaches that there is only one true God? As for Muhammads revelations, when they started to occur, the meccans called him a mad man, they dubbed it an affliction! and when he performed miracles they called him a sorcerer! Hence why the Quran debunked such comments! What other explanation could their ignorant pagan minds come up with when a person tells them he receives revalations from the almighty and when he performs miracles? But the demon part really cracked me up! Lmao! Did the jews not call Jesus a mad man and a sorcerer as well? If you read some of the accounts of jesus by men who lived during his time you'd know that the unbelievers will say anything to discredit a prophet of the lord. Demon! Lol! Can't stop laughing! |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by malvisguy212: 7:55am On Apr 20, 2015 |
EzioAuditore:do you know mut'a marriage in Islam? Is also known as temporary marriage, they will marry each other and after sexual intercourse they will then divorce, is this not prostitution? Muhammed approved it; Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3243: Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract TEMPORARY MARRIAGE FOR A STIPULATED PERIOD giving her a garment, and ‘Abdullah then recited this verse: ‘Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like transgressors’ (al- Qur’an 5:87). The above Hadiths show that Allah revealed a Qur’anic verse authorizing the practice of Mut’a. In Sahih Muslim’s narration, we are told that Muhammad permitted his followers to “contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment” in return for the enjoyment of s*ex they receive from her . Alternatively, as the following Hadith shows, even “a handful of grain” is sufficient for the exchange. Muhammad clearly allowed his men to use temporary marriage as a sanctioned form of prostitution. Imam al-Baydawi’s agreement with the above statements can be read in his famous book, “The Interpretation of Al- Baydawi.” And on p. 108 he adds: “The purpose of the contractual marriage is the MERE PLEASURE OF INTERCOURSE WITH WOMEN , and her own enjoyment in what she has given” (p. 108). You know what? All what you wrote , muhammed violate it, he did all what you wrote, I have no time now, I would've proved it to you now. |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by Nobody: 8:16am On Apr 20, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Oh malvis, Silly silly Mavis, Temporary Marriage (muta) is forbidden in Islam! In this post we will see how and why Temporary Marriage was first allowed in Islam, but then later was forbidden by our Prophet peace be upon him: "Rabi' b. Sabra reported that his father went on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) during the Victory of Mecca, and we stayed there for fifteen days (i. e. for thirteen full days and a day and a night), and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage with women. So I and another person of my tribe went out, and I was more handsome than he, whereas he was almost ugly. Each one of us had a cloaks, My cloak was worn out, whereas the cloak of my cousin was quite new. As we reached the lower or the upper side of Mecca, we came across a young woman like a young smart long-necked she-camel. We said: Is it possible that one of us may contract temporary marriage with you? She said: What will you give me as a dower? Each one of us spread his cloak. She began to cast a glance on both the persons. My companion also looked at her when she was casting a glance at her side and he said: This cloak of his is worn out, whereas my cloak is quite new. She, however, said twice or thrice: There is no harm in (accepting) this cloak (the old one). So I contracted temporary marriage with her, and I did not come out (of this) until Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) declared it forbidden. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3253)" Narrated 'Ali: "I said to Ibn 'Abbas, 'During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al-Mut'a [Temporary Marriage in English] and the eating of donkey's meat.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah), Volume 7, Book 62, Number 50)" Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa': "While we were in an army, Allah's Apostle came to us and said, "You have been allowed to do the Mut'a (marriage), so do it." Salama bin Al-Akwa' said: Allah's Apostle's said, "If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so." I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: 'Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, "The Mut'a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah), Volume 7, Book 62, Number 52)" Narrated Saburah ibn Ma'bad al-Juhani: "The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) prohibited temporary marriage with women. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2068)" The reason why temporary marriage was allowed is to prevent illegal sex, prostitution and rape especially during the early times of Islam when Muslims didn't have residence stability and were facing all kinds of difficulties from the pagans. The Muslim men used to also travel for long months away from their families to meet the enemy in the battle field. Some of the towns they used to go to had Muslim women in them, and like I said, to prevent adultery and fornication with any woman (Muslim or non-Muslim), and to prevent rape, the Prophet peace be upon him allowed temporary marriage contracts between Muslim men and women. When the Muslim state became stable during our Prophet's time, he then forbade that act because Muslims then could get married and have stable lives with their families and raise Children in a stable and convenient community. 4- Prophet Muhammad forbade Muta after seeing that some Muslim men were going to abuse it: Narrated 'Abdullah: "We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated?" He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (2) and recited to us: -- 'O you who believe ! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 130) Narrated Abdullah: "We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139) "Rabi' b. Sabra reported that his father went on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) during the Victory of Mecca, and we stayed there for fifteen days (i. e. for thirteen full days and a day and a night), and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage with women. So I and another person of my tribe went out, and I was more handsome than he, whereas he was almost ugly. Each one of us had a cloaks, My cloak was worn out, whereas the cloak of my cousin was quite new. As we reached the lower or the upper side of Mecca, we came across a young woman like a young smart long-necked she-camel. We said: Is it possible that one of us may contract temporary marriage with you? She said: What will you give me as a dower? Each one of us spread his cloak. She began to cast a glance on both the persons. My companion also looked at her when she was casting a glance at her side and he said: This cloak of his is worn out, whereas my cloak is quite new. She, however, said twice or thrice: There is no harm in (accepting) this cloak (the old one). So I contracted temporary marriage with her, and I did not come out (of this) until Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) declared it forbidden. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3253)" Prophet Muhammad said that the most detested Lawful thing to Allah Almighty is divorce [1] [2]. And why should this be a strange thing, or come as a surprise to anyone, when Allah Almighty Himself Said that marriage is a "Solemn covenant". the covenant that is between the husband and the wife is a "Solemn Covenant" (ميثاقا غليظا) as Allah Almighty Said What about the bible eh? Let's see what it has to say Let us look at the following verse in the Bible: Matthew 19:8 "Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning." Now, while Muta is not what Prophet Moses, peace be upon him, directly permitted to his followers, but there are two things to notice here: 1- Prophet Moses was given the authority by Allah Almighty to permit things; temporary things even. 2- Divorce was allowed in the Jewish Law. So while Muta, or temporary marriage, wasn't precisely mentioned in the Bible, but it is obvious that there were people who probably abused the system and married and divorced carelessly. Now, I fully understand that such people and intentions are condemned in the Bible. But what's important to notice here is that Prophets were permitted to pass on customized and/or specific and/or temporary Laws to their people, in the Bible. "Moses permitted you" clearly means that Prophet Moses was given the authority to permit whatever he saw best as a solution to certain issues; in this case a solution to their hard hearts. So Prophet Muhammad allowing temporary marriage to solve certain issues, and to prevent certain problems, is not something strange after all. If this is the solution that he saw best back then, then who are we to judge and say no? PROSTITUTION IN THE BIBLE! GOD Almighty Himself Causing and Legitamizing Prostitution with David's wives in 2 Samuel 12:7-12: Furthermore, we read in 2 Samuel 12: 2 Samuel 12 1 And the Lord sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor. 2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds: 3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter. 4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him. 5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the Lord liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die: 6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity. 7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon. 10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. 11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. 14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. 15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. 16 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. 17 And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. 18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead? 19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead. 20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat. 21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. 24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. 25 And he sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet; and he called his name Jedidiah, because of the Lord. 26 And Joab fought against Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and took the royal city. 27 And Joab sent messengers to David, and said, I have fought against Rabbah, and have taken the city of waters. 28 Now therefore gather the rest of the people together, and encamp against the city, and take it: lest I take the city, and it be called after my name. 29 And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it. 30 And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance. 31 And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem. Seriously? Prostitution now? You guys are sick. I have to say I am enjoying this Q&A, I like how you come all guns blazing no holds bar and I send you back with your tail between your legs, it's really nice. |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by truthman2012(m): 11:16am On Apr 20, 2015 |
The way Muhammad received quranic revelations shows the messages were not from the true God. God's prophets in the bible heard God's voice directly. But Muhammad received revelations the exact manner pagan priests do receive revelations from their god. This coupled with the way allah is worshiped in Kaaba shows clearly islam is a continuation of idol worship. Muhammad only succeeded in eradicating other idols in Mecca and lifted his fathers' idol, allahh above the other 359 idols. Since it was not the true God that spoke to Muhammad, it must have been the Devil. The Devil is a liar and everything he says in the quran about the Bible, Jesus and other things are lies. Even a teenager should know the below manner of receiving revelations is demonic: 1. Muhammad experienced ringing in his ears, like bell and sweat was on his forehead: Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah's Apostle "O Allah's Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?" Allah's Apostle replied, "Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ' off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says." 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration wasover). (Bukhari: Vol. 1, Book 1, No. 2). 2. His face was red and he and would breath heavily: Narrated Safwan bin Ya'la bin Umaiya: Ya'la used to say, "I wish I could see Allah's Apostle at the time he is being inspired Divinely." When the Prophet was at Al-Ja'rana and was shaded by a garment hanging over him and some of his companions were with him, a man perfumed with scent came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is your opinion regarding a man who assumes Ihram and puts on a cloak after perfuming his body with scent?" The Prophet waited for a while, and then the Divine Inspiration descended upon him. 'Umar pointed out to Ya'la, telling him to come. Ya'la came and pushed his head (underneath the screen which was covering the Prophet ) and behold! The Prophet's face was red and he kept on breathing heavily for a while and then he was relieved. Thereupon he said, "Where is the questioner who asked me about 'Umra a while ago?" The man was sought and then was brought before the Prophet who said (to him), "As regards the scent which you perfumed your body with, you must wash it off thrice, and as for your cloak, you must take it off; and then perform in your 'Umra all those things which you perform in Hajj." (Bukhari: Volume 6, Book 61, Number 508). 3. He would suddenly fall down or lie down; he wanted to be covered by a blanket: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: that he heard the Prophet saying, "The Divine Inspiration was delayed for a short period but suddenly, as I was walking. I heard a voice in the sky, and when I looked up towards the sky, to my surprise, I saw the angel who had come to me in the Hira Cave, and he was sitting on a chair in between the sky and the earth. I was so frightened by him that I fell on the ground and came to my family and said (to them), 'Cover me! (with a blanket), cover me!' Then Allah sent the Revelation: "O, You wrapped up (In a blanket)! (Arise and warn! (Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 461). 4. He would fall down unconscious: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When the Ka'ba was rebuilt, the Prophet and 'Abbas went to carry stones. 'Abbas said to the Prophet "(Take off and) put your waist sheet over your neck so that the stones may not hurt you." (But as soon as he took off his waist sheet) he fell unconscious on the ground with both his eyes towards the sky. When he came to his senses, he said, "My waist sheet! My waist sheet!" Then he tied his waist sheet (round his waist) (Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 170). 5. He would snore like a camel: Narrated Safwan bin Ya'la bin Umaiya from his father who said: "A man came to the Prophet while he was at Ji'rana. The man was wearing a cloak which had traces of Khaluq or Sufra (a kind of perfume). The man asked (the Prophet), 'What do you order me to perform in my 'Umra?' So, Allah inspired the Prophet divinely and he was screened by a place of cloth. I wished to see the Prophet being divinely inspired. 'Umar said to me, 'Come! Will you be pleased to look at the Prophet while Allah is inspiring him?' I replied in the affirmative. 'Umar lifted one corner of the cloth and I looked at the Prophet who was snoring. (The sub- narrator thought that he said: The snoring was like that of a camel). When that state was over, the Prophet asked, "Where is the questioner who asked about 'Umra? Put off your cloak and wash away the traces of Khaluq from your body and clean the Sufra (yellow color) and perform in your Umra what you perform in your Hajj (i.e. the Tawaf round the Ka'ba and the Sa'i between Safa and Marwa). " (Bukhari: Volume 3, Book 27, Number 17). |
| Re: Was Jesus Naive To Have Said This? by truthman2012(m): 12:55pm On Apr 20, 2015 |
EzioAuditore: It is a lie. Abraham and Ishmael were not in Mecca to receive black stone. Quran confirms no messenger was in Mecca before Muhammad. Kaaba was built by Mecca pagan with black stone put in the wall. But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners (Quran 34:44 YusuAli) The Devil is a Liar. 1 Like |
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