Ubenedictus:



right now? nope, there used to married bishops though, some centuries ago but the Church learnt from experience what the apostle Paul meant when he said a married man gets distracted by his family.

you can't send a married man out as a missionary in dangerous places, you'll be uprooting his whole family and putting them in danger.... there is a long story there but the problem became worse since the married bishops tried to use Church funds to ensure their families were stable after their death, some gave church lands to their kids etc. as the years went by it became necessary to appoint Bishop from non married celibate men to avoid the wahala that came with married bishops.
so today you won't find a married bishop even though there are married priests. I think the last married pope was Pope st Felix III about 800AD some 1200yrs ago... married bishops may be more recent.

Ubenedictus:


sorry you are very ignorant, the 1611 version was in English only, I.e KJV was not in all languages.

there were already bibles in different kinds of languages all through the world, these languages were vernacular to many countries and a translation in the ligua franca common to all of Europe. So 99% of all educated people all had bibles in a language they can read.


nobody hid bibles that is a conspiracy theory your Protestant sites told you. apart from bibles in ligua franca of Europe, there were bibles in the vernacular, in German, Slav, etc. but the fact is anyone who could read at all could read Latin. there was hardly any need for the so called 1611 version

brocab:
The problem is you don't search the net, you just go to the Catholic site, and that's it, what they believe it's true, doesn't have to be written in the bible, or else where in history?
If the Pope told you to jump off the edge, you would do it for the Pope, the Pope believes he is the vicar of Christ, vicar means Christ Himself, and no-one can go into heaven without the vicar "Christ standing at the door of Rome.
So as far as your studying the scriptures go, Uben, nothing else matters..

Jolliano:

Bros, Vicar doesn't mean Christ na.

It means a representative using one's authority.

brocab:
If representative means vicar the why does the Pope take on this roll, why do all the priest believe they are God on earth, who can forgive sins?

Jolliano:



The People of God are referred to as His sheep.
“For he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care” ( Psalm 95:7 ).

In John 10, Jesus identifies Himself as our Good Shepherd (John 10:11) and then says "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." - John 10 : 27.


Then when He was about to ascend into heaven, He gave Peter a three-fold command to “feed my sheep” in John 21:15-17.

Here, He makes Peter a Shepherd, physically PRESENT to rePRESENT Jesus, the Good Shepherd.

The Popes as successors of Saint Peter continue to do this feeding and will continue to until the Good Shepherd returns.
___________________________
On the other half, priests don't believe they are God (else they would be worshipping themselves na).

They forgive sins because they are ordained to that ministry and office.
In Mathew 9, Jesus says the Son of Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins
In John 20:21 - 23, Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins while sending them as the Father sent Him.

brocab:
You won't what I am about to write, but really who gave the priest any rights that only God can do is forgive our sin, if you aren't willing to seek God the Father, asking Him to forgive you, your sins are not forgiven.
Only God can forgive sins, and Christ, being God, has the power to do so as well, but He never communicated any such power to His disciples, nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves.
The key to understanding the meaning of {John 20:23} lies in the previous two verses: “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’ And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’”
He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world.
Jesus was leaving the earth physically but promised God would be with them in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes.
Jesus said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36)
Believers today have the very same mission given to us! We are obligated to share the gospel message, the way to heaven, to others in the world, and we go about that mission with the Holy Spirit living inside us, guiding us as we share His truth.
We are obligated to tell people the only way to be forgiven is through faith. Jesus said in {John 8:24} “If you do not believe that I am (God), you will indeed die in your sins.”
This is the very core of the gospel message and the very heart of what we are to explain to the world.
It was Jesus’ last command to His followers before He physically left the earth—carry forward the message of hope and save as many as will believe in Him.
Jesus preached a crucial message about forgiving our brothers, as God forgave us. We stand in grace, and He expects us to keep our hearts pure toward others, not holding grudges or harboring a spirit of unforgiveness, especially after He gave us such undeserved love and forgiveness at such a high personal cost to Himself!
Jesus said those who have been forgiven much, love much (Luke 7:47) He expects us to forgive others 70 times 7 times (Matthew 18:22)

Man if Jesus gave us this authority, no-one would have to repent nor go to the Father asking Him for our own forgiveness.
Its insane even thinking only your priest have this gift, I wouldn't like to meet Jesus on judgement day just to find out I believed in something that is all wrong, and unscriptural and end up in hell fire..

Jolliano:
Catholic priests have this gift(office/faculty/whatever you want to call it) because they have been sent just as Christ sent the Apostles in an unbroken succession (Apostolic Succession).

Jolliano:


You quoted John 20: 21 and 22 but did not quote v 23 which is the completion of the statement. Here is the complete quotation:

19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Your interpretation of this passage and the statement in v 23 to mean "He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world." is a very wrong one. It is in no way traceable to v 23.

Also, this is not his last appearance before Ascension. This is actually his first appearance after his Resurrection and the message is clear, "if you forgive...., they are forgiven". The mission on which they are sent here is directly spelt out: The forgiveness of sins.

NOTE: The mission of Christ has many different (related but different) parts; teaching, healing, interceding, forgiveness of sins, e.t.c. Even St Paul says "All this is the work of God who in Christ reconciled us to himself, and who entrusted to us the ministry of reconciliation." - 2 Corinthians 5,18



This is another wrong arguement. If you say that Jesus giving us this authority would mean there was no need to repent, then what you are implying is that when Jesus Himself was using this authority on earth (Matthew 9: 1 - 7, Luke 7: 44 - 48), people didn't need to repent. And so that argument is weightless.
Also, the fact that some people can heal has not stopped anyone from asking the Father for healing, has it?


Catholic priests have this gift(office/faculty/whatever you want to call it) because they have been sent just as Christ sent the Apostles in an unbroken succession (Apostolic Succession).

On the issue of meeting Jesus on the final day,......

Well, I too do not want that. This is why I am a Catholic, a member of the Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ upon St Peter, which for more than 2000 years has carried on his mission of making disciples of all Nations, of teaching them all that He revealed to the Church through Apostolic Teaching and Writing, of forgiving the sins of those who repentantly confess their sins, of caring for the poor and needy and of saying and standing by the Truth even when everyone else hates the Church for it.
The testimony of the Early Christians(disciples of disciples/Apostles of Christ) show me what and what are actually the tenets and doctrines of the Christian faith and those tenets are that of the Catholic Church and not that of anyone who wakes up one morning and feels that his interpretation of the Scriptures is more accurate than that which has been continously passed down for 2000 years.

My advice: Read the Early Christians/Church Fathers and compare their Faith/Practices to yours and see if they are the same or not.

brocab:
No priest nor I, have the final authority to forgive sins, but Christ Himself can forgive sins. I have forgiven my brothers sin against me, but it's his choice to ask the Lord to forgive him. We should seek forgiveness from the Lord for every sin.
He desires “truth in the inward parts” (Psalm 51:6) If our relationship with the Lord is right, then our relationships with other people will fall into line. We will treat others graciously, with justice and honesty (Psalm 15)
To sin against someone and not attempt to make it right would be unthinkable.
The extent of the apology for a sin should match the extent of the impact of the sin. In other words, we should seek forgiveness from whoever was directly involved in order to ensure healing, but it's his choice to ask the Lord to forgive Him, "Not ask the priest.
“Does any man have the right to forgive sins?
Some Catholic's suggest that Jesus granted this authority to the apostles, and then, through them, to others (John 20:23).
Can the bible actually explain this passage, before you go of the deep end?”
Shortly before His ascension, Jesus said to his apostles:“Whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained” (Jn. 20:23).
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Christ was actually granting to the apostles the authority to forgive sins, and that the apostles passed on to their successors (supposedly the Roman priesthood) the same license to pardon sin.

This is false-Jesus has the final say, not priest, Consider the following points.

First, no interpretation is to be placed upon a difficult and obscure passage (such as this one) that would place it in direct conflict with numerous other clear texts.
The fact is, though all Christians are to forgive one another, i.e., have a forgiving disposition (Eph. 4:32), ultimately, only God can bestow absolute pardon (cf. Psa. 130:4; Isa. 43:25; Dan. 9:9; Mic. 7:18; Acts 8:22).
The Lord did not grant that right to the apostles or anybody else.

Bro it is easier for any man to not waste his time going to make a confession to any priest, but go into your room and pray to the Father and ask Him for your forgiveness, go and make some kind of amends with your brother, who you feel he have sinned against you, or visa versa, make it right either way. If my brother feels I am leading him up the wrong road, then I advise him to seek after the Word of God, not something you have been taught by the church, church teachings can be wrong in many cases, seeking God's word can make a big difference to you and your family eternal.

brocab:
I have been into confession myself, I sat beside a priest spilling my guts, about the sins I had committed, this is before I knew Christ-He set me free, from the law.
This isn't the wrong argument, you say, going to a priest will make all the difference, but the point is, we don't have to seek after a priest, for our confession, we just need to seek after God the Father about our confession in our rooms.
No-one has the authority to forgive sins, only the Father, the priest is a man, he can forgive, just as well as you can forgive, but God is our last resort to forgive our sins.
The Catholic priest does not have these gifts, does he heal the sick, does he raise the dead, does he cast out demons.

For example, if a man looks with lust at a woman, he should immediately confess the sin to the Lord. It would not be needed or appropriate to confess that sin to the woman.
That sin is between the man and the Lord. However, if a man breaks a promise, or does something that directly impacts the woman, he must confess to her and seek her forgiveness. If a sin involves a large number of people, such as a church, a man or woman must then extend the confession to the members of the church. So the confession and apology should match the impact. Those impacted by the sin should hear the confession.
While our forgiveness with God is not dependent on our confessing our sins to others and/or their forgiving us, God does call us to be honest and forthcoming with others regarding our failings, especially when our mistakes involve them.
When we have offended, hurt, or sinned against others, we should seek to offer a sincere apology and confession and ask for forgiveness. Whether the forgiveness is granted is up to those who were confessed too. Our responsibility is to genuinely repent, confess the sin, and ask for forgiveness.
We must do this with each other, not just turn to a priest, expecting your sins are forgiven, many people are taught by asking a priest to forgive their sins, they don't need to settle any accounts with their brother sister they had sinned against.
"No you must turn to your brother, you must ask him for your forgiveness and make amends with your brother and yourself, a priest can not do this..If you hate your brother, the kingdom of God is far from you.

But In your case you need a earthly priest to forgive your sins, of cause you will see this as a judgement, but the Lord said we will know them by their fruit, and when it's time for you to hit heaven, you will say to the Lord see I have done everything I was taught, He will turn to you and say, I do not know you, do you not know the bible is God speaking to you, and everything concerning the bible, you disagree, ask yourself this>when was your last time you had a conversation with the Lord? IF EVER

Jolliano:


Seeing as I have responded to majority of what you're saying here, I will just refer you to my earlier responses (especially because you are not making new points but instead repeating points that you have been unable to back up with the Bible)

The Catholic has these gifts. Does he heal the sick? Yes, when it is the will of God.
Does he raise the dead? Yes, when it is the will of God.
Does he cast out demons? Yes. Go and research Exorcism.

And yes the Priest is a man but so was St. Peter when his shadow was healing people and St. Paul when he brought Eutychus back to life. There is a huge difference between Apostles and Disciples (a lot of authority were given to only Apostles) and yet both groups were made up of only men.




Seeing as this your argument (confess directly to God when you feel the sin doesn't affect anybody else and confess to everyone when you feel it does) is not from the Bible nor from any Early Christian Writing, it is nothing but your personal interpretation. AND it is wrong.

1 Corinthians 12:12 - 27 shows that we are all parts of one body and that if one part of the body suffers, the whole body suffers. Then if one part of the body is injured, then the whole body is injured. (If I had an injury on my head, I would say "I am injured" not "My head is injured."
So your sin as a member of the Body of Christ affects the whole Body of Christ. There is no sin between you and the Lord only (This is a product of the new and wrong mentality of a personal relationship between me and God only. There is no use of the word personal in anything faith related in the NT. Also, no accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour in the Bible). Christianity has and will always be a communal faith just as Judaism was. This is why it is part of the greatest commandment to "Love your neighbor as yourself".
In summary, there is no sin that is private, all sins are public.

Having quoted the bible, I will also include quotes from the Early Christians to counter your personal interpretation.

1. Didache 4:14; 14:1 - As early as 70 AD

Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life…. On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure.

2. St. Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD]
Epistle to the Philadelphians ch 3

"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ"

3. St. Cyprian of Carthage - 250 AD
The Lapsed 15:1-3; 28

The Apostle likewise bears witness and says: ….”Whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord” [1 Cor 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest…they do violence to his body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him.

….Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who…confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. God cannot be mocked or outwitted, nor can he be deceived by any clever cunning….Indeed, he but sins the more if, thinking that God is like man, he believes that he can escape the punishment of his crime by not openly admitting his crime….I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord.

There are a lot more that show that the Early Christians believed in the Apostles/Bishops/Priests having the power to forgive sins.

brocab:
To be honest you are floating or over the place, now you have brought in the heavy guns, Didache or Philadelphia is not the books I would use in this conversation, but I little brotherly love doesn't go astray, why do Catholic's feel they need to arm themselves up, when the bible is concerned, no-one is interested in other literature's from outside God's Word the bible.
First, how is this going to support your theory on seeking a priest for prayer with this>-Didache 4:14; 14:1 - As early as 70 The Didache Bible presents extensive commentaries, based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for each of the books of the Holy Bible. It also includes numerous apologetical inserts to assist the reader in understanding the Church's teachings on current issues.
Second, Philadelphia, which means “brotherly love,”

I should throw this one in, since its starting to look like a competition? King James Bible {Matthew 23:9}And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

To be honest I don’t see how the Catholic Church can teach that a priest can forgive sins. It’s against the Bible.

The Psalmist, speaking to God, says in {Psalm 130:4} "But with you there is forgiveness." A man cannot forgive the sins of another person.
The only sins a man can forgive are those against him directly. Jesus said we should forgive those who sin against us. But how can a priest, or any human being, forgive sins which are not against him directly. Only God can do that.
But In your case you need a earthly priest to forgive your sins, of cause you will see this as a judgement, but the Lord said we will know them by their fruit, and when it's time for you to hit heaven, you will say to the Lord see I have done everything I was taught, He will turn to you and say, I do not know you, do you not know the bible is God speaking to you, and everything concerning the bible, you disagree, ask yourself this>when was your last time you had a conversation with the Lord? IF EVER
{1 John 1:8-10} If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
{Psalm 25:11} For Your name's sake, O LORD, Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.
{Matthew 18:19-21} “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
Peter said his brother sinned against him, so Peter should forgive him up to seven times, Peter never had the authority to forgive another mans sins, especially if the sin wasn't against Peter, or visa versa, so you are wrong to think an earthly priest can forgive sins that isn't against him.
{Mark 11:25}"Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.
Our Father in Heaven hollowed be your name your kingdom come, that will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. This is a good example how to pray to and whom too, as we forgive those who sinned against us, the Father will forgive our trespass.
{Exodus 32:32} "But now, if You will, forgive their sin--and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!
"{Luke 23:34} But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing " And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.
{Psalm 19:12} Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults.
How can a priest warn those who are sinning, when he is just a man. Peter was also a man filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter couldn't see unless the Spirit of the Lord had showed him to see..
{Luke 17:4} "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."
If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. If my brother asked me to forgive him, I shall forgive him, and I will say to him let us pray to the Lord. There's no power in forgiveness without the Father.
{Daniel 9:9} "To the Lord our God belong compassion and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against Him.
{James 5:15} And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
{Genesis 50:17}'Thus you shall say to Joseph, "Please forgive, I beg you, the transgression of your brothers and their sin, for they did you wrong."' And now, please forgive the transgression of the servants of the God of your father." And Joseph wept when they spoke to him.
Look in this verse, they asked Joseph to forgive their sins.
{Ephesians 4:32} Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

I do remember the Exorcist, but even then, what name do the priest use to cast out demons, I watched the Exorcist, and I don't recall the priest using Jesus name to cast out the legion of demons. God compel you 'was the terms used.
It took the priest weeks to cast it out, I suppose without the name of Jesus, one would ask-is the Exorcist really true, or is it just a story to draw in the people, demons casting out demons?
This gift was given to the apostles, they used Jesus's name, and the demons flew out in seconds. And you claim priest are the new generation of the apostles from Peter, so what went wrong?

Jolliano:


Lol. I am not floating. I am actually the one who is responding directly and not copying articles from sites, making claims, repeating them and not backing them up.

Anyway, you don't seem to read my responses. I answered you from the Bible first and then I specifically said "Having quoted the bible, I will also include quotes from the Early Christians to counter your personal interpretation." I did that to contrast your interpretation with that of the Early Christians and obviously they are different.

You ask why do Catholics need to arm up......? Bros, I have been quoting from the bible in every of my response and you have failed to respond with one quote that counters the Apostles receiving that authority in John 20:23. You are instead posting quotes about how God can forgive sins(which no one is arguing about anyway).
PS: Only God can give life. But St Paul and Elisha also did.

You say that they are not books that you would use and yet from the Bible (which I assume is the book you would use), you have not provided one quote or statement that counters what Jesus said in John 20:19 - 23 (which is the basis of this argument).

Also, can you stop using false information and lies in this discussion? I quoted from the "DIDACHE" which was written about 70AD and you are talking about (or more accurately copying and pasting a short description of) "THE DIDACHE BIBLE" which was written recently and can be found here https://www.ignatius.com/Products/DBIB-H/the-didache-bible-with-commentaries-based-on-the-catechism-of-the-catholic-church.aspx



So you mean that Jesus asked Christians not to literally use the word "father"? Lol.

Jesus himself said: "And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.'" - (Luke 16:24-25)
Maybe St. Paul forgot when he called himself father: "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel" (1 Corinthians 4:14-15).
Maybe he forgot again when he said: "Brethren and fathers, hear the defense which I now make before you"- (Acts 22:10)
Even St. Stephen forgot when he said: "And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in." - (Acts 7:2)
Then St. John must have been very forgetful (and by your logic, sinful) because he said: "1 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong d, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one." - (1 Jn 2:1, 13-14)
Him own no be father serf, na fathers.

Jesus meant that no one was to bring in his own interpretation or create his own version of Christianity. In other words, all fatherhood must truly flow from the Fatherhood of God. He was referring to the Scribes and Pharisees and their errors. Read (Matthew 23:1-12). Always read the bible in context. Don't carry one verse away from its background and start giving whatever interpretation you like best.


Which bible? The one that said: "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” in John 20: 19 - 23 Which bible, bros?




Again, no one is arguing about the Father being able to forgive or whether people can or should forgive others. The argument is did Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive sins? John 20: 19 - 23 says YES. Reply with a bible verse or area that says NO.




Exorcism no be film o. You watched a movie, bros. I said research EXORCISM, not go and watch film.

JMAN05:


Corruption of these kind is not unique to married bishops. People just get corrupt and go above board because of love for wealth etc. I assure you that you can find a single bishop who would still misuse church funds.

However, don't you think that one can serve as a bishop without his being a missionary? Is there a scriptural requirement that all bishops must be missionaries?

As for priests, I guess you are referring to your reverend fathers. Are they allowed to marry?

Ubenedictus:
it is unique, an unmarried man as Paul wrote is able to put God first while the married guy is torn in two worlds. there is still corruption but it isn't as the time when we had married bishops.

married men may be rev fr in eastern Catholic Church and in few western Church

JMAN05:


True, singleness makes someone to focus in spiritual things without distraction associated with marriage. I believe Paul's advise is so that one can have less distraction. Not necessarily no-corruption as you seem to opine. Singleness does not prevent corruption. Secondly, one can still put kingdom first while married. I can mention Peter and Philip as good examples. I wouldn't say that Peter and Philip were more corrupt than Paul since they were married. Would you say that?

I want to inquire, can't one become a bishop without his being a missionary? Is there any biblical injunction against that?

2. With regards to rev frs, I want to understand from your comment that it is not a church policy nor scriptural injunction that all reverend fathers can marry? It appears that in some part of the world, the church allows it, while restricting it for some areas? Church policy, not scripture I guess?

brocab:
I wish I could make things a little easier for you to understand, but every time I write you seem to jump for glory, you jump straight in the defence mode. Not realising what I had just said, is true
Take it from me, your mother and father loves you, protecting you they would say the same, if they knew there is trouble heading your way-they will warn you or they will try and stop you from entering the dangers that lay ahead.
Why because they love you, and they care for you, like I do for the brethren.
Try opening your eye's and look at it another way, instead of running to your defence, take it as a learning.
And I am not aiming at Catholicism either, all Churches have problems, born again Christians have problems some refusing to believe, they prefer to spend more time worrying about the cares in this life, then they would spend time with God, claiming to be saved, but have chosen to walk among the wolves-because there heart can only follow after the world in selfishness, envy, strife, arguments, hatred, unforgiving, unrepentant, that's lending them to their destruction.
I could ask if you are saved under Christ Uben, but I believe you are saved under the banner of the Catholic Church, which means your Pope is God on earth, which means, he is your vicar the Christ? Jesus said: By their fruit we will know them, Uben I don't know you" believers grow in Christ-and preach His Word, Uben you don't grow to preach His Word, you preach another doctrine.
We study and learn the Word of God on all accounts, Catholicism is your account, true believers in Christ are changing from their old selves to their new selves, Uben you haven't changed since the beginning, nasty you are, and nasty you will stay, we believe in One God, One Word and One Spirit, you believe in two words, two doctrines and many spirits, ask the saints..
We pray to One God, you pray to many, we ask our mediator to pray for us, you have many mediators to pray for you..
{John 10:27} Believers recognise the voice of the Lord, and again you speak of another, Jesus said: His sheep knows His voice. Do you hear His voice.
The stories are told, that Catholicism can only hear the voice of Mary, "The 3 Children for instants..
Believers stop at nothing, we believe in one doctrine, One Lord and saviour, which means there's no other doctrines to fill our needs, none other can save us, "There's no room to be lukewarm in Christ..
{Revelations 3:16} Jesus said: Because you are lukewarm neither hot or cold, I will spue you out of My mouth.
A lukewarm Christian, is someone that don't walk nor talk with God, do you walk or talk with God? "Catholicism that believe in another doctrine had separated themselves away from the church of God.
Its a big difference between beliefs, and which God we believe, One God and One Mediator the Lord Jesus Christ..

brocab:
I found this on Got Questions and this is what they have to say about these two different doctrines.
Question: "Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?"

Answer: This is a simple question with a complicated answer, because there are varying degrees of, and reasons for, animosity between any two religious groups.
The battle between Catholics and Protestants is rooted in history.
Degrees of reaction have ranged from friendly disagreement (as reflected in the numerous ecumenical dialogues produced between the two groups) to outright persecution and murder of Protestants at the hands of Rome. Reformation teachings that identify the Pope as the Beast of Revelation and / or Roman Catholicism as Mystery Babylon are still common among Protestants.
Clearly, anyone with this view is not going to “warm up” to Rome any time soon.

For the most part, today at least, the animosity comes from basic human nature when dealing with fundamental disagreement over eternal truths.
Passions are sure to ignite in the more weighty matters of life, and one's faith is (or at least should be) at the top of the heap. Many Protestants think Roman Catholics teach a works-gospel that cannot save, while Roman Catholics think Protestants teach easy-believism that requires nothing more than an emotional outburst brought on by manipulative preaching. Protestants accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary, and Catholics think Protestants are apparently too dull to understand the distinctions Rome has made in this regard.
These caricatures are often difficult to overcome.

Behind the particular disagreements over the role of faith and works, the sacraments, the canon of Scripture, the role of the priesthood, prayers to saints, and all the issues surrounding Mary and the Pope, etc., lies the biggest rift between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism: the issue of authority. How one answers the authority question will generally inform all the other issues.
When it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t really much to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.
This is a problem when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic authority.

Thus, many of the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."
Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their tradition.
But this merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities (to choose their authority) and their interpretive skills (to understand what that authority teaches) in order to determine what they will believe.
Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.

Both sides can also be fiercely loyal to their family's faith or the church they grew up in without much thought to doctrinal arguments. Obviously, there are a lot of possible reasons for the division between Catholicism and Protestantism, and while we should not divide over secondary issues, both sides agree that we must divide when it comes to primary issues.
When it comes to Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, the differences are just too great to ignore. However, that does not give license for caricatures or ignorant judgments – both sides need to be honest in their assessments and try not to go beyond what God has revealed.

Recommended Resource: The Unfinished Reformation: What Unites and Divides Catholics and Protestants After 500 Years by Alison & Castaldo

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Jolliano:
Bros, Vicar doesn't mean Christ na.
It means a representative using one's authority.

brocab:
Exorcism from a movie is a good start, God compel you, this gives someone outside the square something to go by, I don't know if you are one that studies the scriptures or not-but did you know the devil can counterfeit miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9)
In fact, Jesus warned, “Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:22–23)

Do you know the Catholic Church openly breaks God’s Ten Commandments (the second and fourth – Exodus 20) and is not purified by the truth.

Sadly, its priests can be used by the devil to perform counterfeit miracles.
Satan has some powers and he uses these powers to deceive the world. Satan is a master trickster and the father of lies. (John 8:44; 2 Corinthians 11:14)
Whether to possess a person or be cast out of that same person, the devil uses every possible way to achieve his deceptions.
Exorcism strengthens the faith of people in the authority of priests. {It strengthen your faith towards priest} It causes people to trust the priest’s authority and their teachings even though it contradicts the Bible.
But the good news is that every Christian has the power to defeat the devil “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils” (Mark 16:17)
Believers are given the authority to “cast out devils” (Matthew 10:
The only power that is guaranteed to defeat Satan every time is the power of the Holy Spirit residing within a believer who is equipped with the armor of God’s Word (Ephesians 6:11–17; 2 Corinthians 10:4)
As Christians submit to God, they can “resist the devil, and he will flee” from them (James 4:7)
And there is nothing impossible for the believers for “with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26)

brocab:
No Jesus didn't just give the apostles the authority to forgive sins.
I have explained to you, the authority we have is to forgive those who have sinned against us-visa versa, we all have this gift to forgive.
The subject matter in this passage, the forgiveness of sin, is an enormous issue in that regard, for the Old Testament made it very clear that only God could forgive sins. This will help us understand the response of the teachers of the Law, and the reason for the authenticating miracle.
Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town.
2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
3 At this, some of the teachers of the Law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”
4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?
5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?
6 But so that you might know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sin . . . .” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”
7 And the man got up and went home.
8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe, and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.
Some religious leaders say that the disciples and apostles were given authority by Jesus to forgive the sins of others just like what Roman Catholic priests do in their confession booth. And they use {John 20:23 and James 5:16} to support their claim.
“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” (John 20:23, ESV)
“Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.” (James 5:16, NIV)
Only God Forgives Sins
{Daniel 9:9} “To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgiveness…”
Even in the Old Testament, a Levite priest cannot pronounce absolution of sin to the repentant sinner. The priests can only communicate the forgiveness that God has already given to the sinner based on the ceremonies and rules in the earthly sanctuary God gave to Moses.
{Leviticus 4:26} “And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.”
The verse never said “and the priest can now forgive the repentant sinner”.
The Jews knew that God alone can forgive sins (absolution). This is the reason the Pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy when Jesus forgave the sin of the paralytic man in {Mark 2:3-12}
The same is true in the New Testament. Nowhere in the Bible mentioned that the apostles nor disciples exercised the forgiving of sins of their fellow men in behalf of God. Why? Because they fully understood what Jesus exactly meant in {John 20:23} The remission of sin is the prerogative of God alone.
{1 John 2:1} tells us that we have only one Advocate or Mediator with the Father, and that is Jesus Christ. This Advocate can forgive sins as what He had demonstrated in His earthly ministry.
So what was Jesus saying in {John 20:23} is that any Christian can declare that those who genuinely ask for forgiveness and repent the sins he committed and accept Jesus and His Gospel will have his sins forgiven by God.
However, for those who will hardened their hearts and not accept Jesus and follow His Gospel will die from their sins. Jesus gave that privilege to any of His followers."Next Question are you a follower of Christ, all would you prefer to follow after a priest?

Jolliano:


Again, only God forgive sins. But He gave the Apostles the authority to forgive sins. Their authority is gotten from God's own. So when they forgive, it is not by their power that forgives but God through the authority he has given them.

JOHN 20: 23

Do I follow Christ or a Priest?
Lol.
“The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” - Luke 10:16

The Priests have been ordained as ministers of Christ and so they are our spiritual fathers just as St. Paul said he was on 1 Cor. 4:15.

How do I know who to follow and who not to follow? Simple.
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema." - Galatians 1: 8 - 9.

Anyone who teaches what cannot be traced to the Apostles is a FALSE TEACHER. So again, check what the Apostles taught and believed and see if it is different from yours.

Jolliano:

"I adjure you, ancient serpent, by the judge of the living and the dead, by your Creator, by the Creator of the whole universe, by Him who has the power to consign you to hell, to depart forthwith in fear, along with your savage minions, from this servant of God, N., who seeks refuge in the fold of the Church. I adjure you again, + (on the brow) not by my weakness but by the might of the Holy Spirit, to depart from this servant of God, N. , whom almighty God has made in His image. Yield, therefore, yield not to my own person but to the minister of Christ. For it is the power of Christ that COMPELS you, who brought you low by His cross. Tremble before that mighty arm that broke asunder the dark prison walls and led souls forth to light. May the trembling that afflicts this human frame, + (on the breast) the fear that afflicts this image + (on the brow) of God, descend on you. Make no resistance nor delay in departing from this man, for it has pleased Christ to dwell in man. Do not think of despising my command because you know me to be a great sinner. It is God + Himself who commands you; the majestic Christ + who commands you. God the Father + commands you; God the Son + commands you; God the Holy + Spirit commands you. The mystery of the cross commands +you. The faith of the holy apostles Peter and Paul and of all the saints commands + you. The blood of the martyrs commands + you. The continence of the confessors commands + you. The devout prayers of all holy men and women command + you. The saving mysteries of our Christian faith command + you."

Jolliano:

Lol.
1. The movie does not give you a background of exorcism or knowledge about exorcism because it is not a movie by the Catholic Church. If you want to research exorcism, search for what the Church says it is and does, not what a movie or series says and does.

"God compel you" is not what the Catholic Church says during exorcism.
Here is an excerpt from the full EXORCISM prayer

"I adjure you, ancient serpent, by the judge of the living and the dead, by your Creator, by the Creator of the whole universe, by Him who has the power to consign you to hell, to depart forthwith in fear, along with your savage minions, from this servant of God, N., who seeks refuge in the fold of the Church. I adjure you again, + (on the brow) not by my weakness but by the might of the Holy Spirit, to depart from this servant of God, N. , whom almighty God has made in His image. Yield, therefore, yield not to my own person but to the minister of Christ. For it is the power of Christ that COMPELS you, who brought you low by His cross. Tremble before that mighty arm that broke asunder the dark prison walls and led souls forth to light. May the trembling that afflicts this human frame, + (on the breast) the fear that afflicts this image + (on the brow) of God, descend on you. Make no resistance nor delay in departing from this man, for it has pleased Christ to dwell in man. Do not think of despising my command because you know me to be a great sinner. It is God + Himself who commands you; the majestic Christ + who commands you. God the Father + commands you; God the Son + commands you; God the Holy + Spirit commands you. The mystery of the cross commands +you. The faith of the holy apostles Peter and Paul and of all the saints commands + you. The blood of the martyrs commands + you. The continence of the confessors commands + you. The devout prayers of all holy men and women command + you. The saving mysteries of our Christian faith command + you."

Do you see the only place where compel is used and how it is used?

2. Seeing as the Catholic Church was founded by Christ Himself on St. Peter and the Apostles with a promise that "Hell would not prevail" and that the Holy Spirit would always be with them to guide them, I would rather trust the CATHOLIC CHURCH than any other person, pastor or faith community.

So, it is protestants who should be wary of Matthew 7:21.



2. Let's stay on topic, please. Although it is normal for protestants to keep accusing Catholics of doing things without giving any proof of Catholics doing that, so I'm not surprised.
However, if you are talking about images, God still allowed the building of images o. The Bronze serpent, the Cherubim on the Ark of Covenant and the one in the Temple built by Solomon.

For the fourth commandment, be articulate and state your accusation plainly. We will then see if it is true or not.

Or if it's like that time you said Jesus forbade the use of "Father" and then I should you where His disciples and even Jesus himself used the word.



3. Guy, na wa o.
You first said Priests can not chase away demons. When I showed you that they can, you now switched to saying that is Satan that uses the Priests. You are just flying from argument to argument saying things that you can not defend.

Anyways, "A student is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master. A student should be glad to become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If the head of the family has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of the family! So, do not be afraid of them." - Matthew 10: 24 - 25

Also read Matthew 10:1-4 in addition to the verse 8 you are quoting. The people Jesus was talking to were the 12 Apostles, not every one of his followers. Apostles are not disciples. However, all Christians can conquer demons.

A question does come to mind though. If you agree that they were given this authority in Matthew 10:8, why don't you agree that they were given the authority to forgive in John 20:23.

paulGrundy:
The Roman Catholic Church sees Peter as the first pope upon whom God had chosen to build His church (Matthew 16:18). It holds that he had authority (primacy) over the other apostles. The Roman Catholic Church maintains that sometime after the recorded events of the book of Acts, the Apostle Peter became the first bishop of Rome, and that the Roman bishop was accepted by the early church as the central authority among all of the churches. It teaches that God passed Peter’s apostolic authority to those who later filled his seat as bishop of Rome. This teaching that God passed on Peter’s apostolic authority to the subsequent bishops is referred to as “apostolic succession.”

The Roman Catholic Church also holds that Peter and the subsequent popes were and are infallible when addressing issues “ex cathedra,” from their position and authority as pope. It teaches that this infallibility gives the pope the ability to guide the church without error. The Roman Catholic Church claims that it can trace an unbroken line of popes back to St. Peter, citing this as evidence that it is the true church, since, according to their interpretation of Matthew 16:18, Christ built His church upon Peter.

But while Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (part of the meaning behind Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles, or over the church (having primacy). See Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; and 1 Peter 5:1-5. Nor is it ever taught in Scripture that the bishop of Rome, or any other bishop, was to have primacy over the church. Scripture does not even explicitly record Peter even being in Rome. Rather there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,” a name sometimes applied to Rome (1 Peter 5:13). Primarily upon this and the historical rise of the influence of the Bishop of Rome come the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20), and the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).

Also, nowhere does Scripture state that, in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (the idea behind apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into” those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). Paul does NOT call on believers in various churches to receive Titus, Timothy, and other church leaders based on their authority as bishops or their having apostolic authority, but rather based upon their being fellow laborers with him (1 Corinthians 16:10; 16:16; 2 Corinthians 8:23).

What Scripture DOES teach is that false teachings would arise even from among church leaders, and that Christians were to compare the teachings of these later church leaders with Scripture, which alone is infallible (Matthew 5:18; Psalm 19:7-8; 119:160; Proverbs 30:5; John 17:17; 2 Peter 1:19-21). The Bible does not teach that the apostles were infallible, apart from what was written by them and incorporated into Scripture. Paul, in talking to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus, makes note of coming false teachers. To fight against their error does NOT commend them to “the apostles and those who would carry on their authority”; rather, Paul commends them to “God and to the word of His grace” (Acts 20:28-32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17), not apostolic successors. It is by examining the Scriptures that teachings are shown to be true or false (Acts 17:10-12).

Was Peter the first pope? The answer, according to Scripture, is a clear and emphatic “no.” Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles. Nowhere in his writings (1 and 2 Peter) did the Apostle Peter claim any special role, authority, or power over the church. Nowhere in Scripture does Peter, or any other apostle, state that their apostolic authority would be passed on to successors. Yes, the Apostle Peter had a leadership role among the disciples. Yes, Peter played a crucial role in the early spread of the gospel (Acts chapters 1-10). Yes, Peter was the “rock” that Christ predicted he would be (Matthew 16:18). However, these truths about Peter in no way give support to the concept that Peter was the first pope, or that he was the “supreme leader” over the apostles, or that his authority would be passed on to the bishops of Rome. Peter himself points us all to the true Shepherd and Overseer of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:25).

brocab:
Here I go again, Now this time pay attention-In {John 20:23} Jesus tells His disciples, “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." The very core of the gospel message is the truth that the way someone has their sins forgiven is by having faith in Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior.
In {Acts 10:43-44} when Peter was sharing the gospel, he said, “Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Did you understand that? He said: Everybody who believes in Christ receives forgiveness of sins through His name.
{First John 5:1-5} tells us only he who believes in Jesus will overcome the world.
{Luke 5:20} says, “When Jesus saw their faith, He said ‘Friend, your sins are forgiven.
{Colossians 2:13-14} says Jesus forgave all our sins.
All these passages confirm that Jesus is the one who forgives sin, and He forgives all of our sins.
If we have had genuine faith in Him, someone else cannot later decide we are not forgiven one sin or another.
Only God can forgive sins, and Christ, being God, has the power to do so as well, but He never communicated any such power to His disciples, nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves.
The key to understanding the meaning of {John 20:23} lies in the previous two verses: “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’
And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world.
Jesus was leaving the earth physically but promised God would be with them in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes.
Jesus said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36)
You won't believe this but we today have the very same mission given to us! We are obligated to share the gospel message, the way to heaven, to others in the world, and we go about that mission with the Holy Spirit living inside us, guiding us as we share His truth.
We are obligated to tell people the only way to be forgiven is through faith.
Jesus said in {John 8:24} “If you do not believe that I am (God), you will indeed die in your sins.” This is the very core of the gospel message and the very heart of what we are to explain to the world. It was Jesus’ last command to His followers before He physically left the earth—carry forward the message of hope and save as many as will believe in Him.
Jesus preached a crucial message about forgiving our brothers, as God forgave us. We stand in grace, and He expects us to keep our hearts pure toward others, not holding grudges or harboring a spirit of unforgiveness, especially after He gave us such undeserved love and forgiveness at such a high personal cost to Himself! Jesus said those who have been forgiven much, love much (Luke 7:47)
He expects us to forgive others 70 times 7 times (Matthew 18:22) We are also told that if we are praying but hold something against anyone, we are to forgive that person so our relationship with God is right and righteous!

Your not here to learn, nor are you here to know the truth, but you come to me, preaching a twisted doctrine, I have written to many organisations who claim Christ built their Church above every other Church, while the rest of the believers in the body, sit in darkness waiting in fear until He returns. It blows my mind-when I hear different organisations such as yours, claiming to know Christ, and lie against the truth-its blasphemy to even think your priest have the power to forgive sins.

brocab:
At least the movie gave me a leg to stand on, and I do remember what the priest said to the demon God compel you.
And still there's nothing in here to say the priest used Jesus name-so who's name have they used-the power of Christ that compel you-"is this it? God the Father commands you, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit commands you, and the mystery of the cross commands you?
And the faith of the Holy apostles Peter and Paul and all the saints command you-could you explain to me, which of these names are casting out the demon?
Jesus name has the only power and authority to caste out demons, it is His name the Catholic Church have refused to use to caste out demons, there is no other name above that can caste out demons.
{Acts 19:15} Says this-One day the evil Spirit said: "Jesus I know and Paul I know""but who are you?
Do you honestly believe this actually works, you have priest that cast out demons, without using Jesus name? Do you really believe these demons would allow the priest to cast them out, without them using the power in the Lord name, You are dreaming.
Priest haven't got this authority nor the power to do so, do the demons leave, or do they just lay low for a while until the priest have gone, and after the house is sweep they come back bringing back with then 7 other spirits more evil then the first.

Jolliano:


Lol. Firstly, Christ is Jesus na. So don't act like He was not mentioned.

Secondly, using Jesus name =/= mentioning or saying Jesus name.
Using Jesus name = Acting with His authority. In the NT testament, how many prayers ended with/included "In Jesus' name"? Just 2. So are we to assume that all the other prayers where "In Jesus name" was not mentioned did not work?

Even your quotation shows it. In Acts 19:13 - 18, the Sons of Sceva actually mentioned Jesus' name and yet the demon didn't move because he didn't know them. Meaning, it is not by mentioning Jesus' name, it is by actually having his authority in you.

Thirdly, the movie does not give you a leg to stand on because the movie is not from the Church. Anyone can act and say whatever he wants, if you now decide to replace the Reality of The Church with the fiction of a movie made by people outside the Church, then that is your issue to contend with. I do not muddle up reality with fiction when discussing.

Ubenedictus:
a rather simple answer, the Protestants separated themselves from the Church by sprouting new heresies they were excommunicated by the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church for sprouting new heresies.