vooks:
Do you ever think before posting?
When Allah is cornered stealing pagan rituals, it is pagans who perverted the true religion and she/he is just restoring it.
When Allah is cornered DISTORTING, defiling and rewriting history with blatant lies such as Alexander the Great being Muslim, this is 'factual' only that it was totally lost (zero prior historical records ) of the same and he/she is now revealing it.

So whether you cook and distort history or you plagiarize paganism, you are always right

You may as well tell us that Mohammed was the original iPad manufacturer and Steve Jobs merely REDISCOVERED them

Ifeann, abeg come and breath some sense into this primate

Vooks u are a very clever guy. ..I noticed Abuamam 's illogical comment which u highlighted but I decided to ignore him. Common sense won't help him see the flaw in his statement nor the falsehood of Islam.

Muslims love to change history and give everything their esoteric meaning. They also claim that most of the worlds inventions are possible because of the efforts of Muslims during the height of their now dead caliphate. They claim the "kaffir" only improved on the sciences and stopped them from making progress.
At a point Muslims used to claim they invented the numerals because its frequently called Arab numerals but in actual fact numerals were invented by Hindu Arabs and Muslims almost destroyed the early manuscripts just as ISIS is destroying world heritage sites and Iraqi and assyrian cultural history in territories they control .

vooks:
Do you ever think before posting?
When Allah is cornered stealing pagan rituals, it is pagans who perverted the true religion and she/he is just restoring it.
When Allah is cornered DISTORTING, defiling and rewriting history with blatant lies such as Alexander the Great being Muslim, this is 'factual' only that it was totally lost (zero prior historical records ) of the same and he/she is now revealing it.

So whether you cook and distort history or you plagiarize paganism, you are always right

You may as well tell us that Mohammed was the original iPad manufacturer and Steve Jobs merely REDISCOVERED them

Ifeann, abeg come and breath some sense into this primate

Alexander the great was a pagan. I did not say he is a Muslim.

Islam teaches us that its practice has been in existence in one form or the other, since the creation of mankind. I understand your pain; seeing as xtianity cannot make any claims beyond Saul/Paul. The facts however, remain facts; "though the disbelievers hate it". Calling the comment 'illogical', detracts nothing from its truth. Islam was the first religion on earth. Any other religions (including xtianity), can only be Satan-corrupted practices of the true faith.

Abuamam:


Alexander the great was a pagan. I did not say he is a Muslim.

Islam teaches us that its practice has been in existence in one form or the other, since the creation of mankind. I understand your pain; seeing as xtianity cannot make any claims beyond Saul/Paul. The facts however, remain facts; "though the disbelievers hate it". Calling the comment 'illogical', detracts nothing from its truth. Islam was the first religion on earth. Any other religions (including xtianity), can only be Satan-corrupted practices of the true faith.

You just contradicted ur prophet and his quran.

Alexander the great was a pagan. I did not say he is a Muslim.

According to the Quran (Surah 18:89-98) Alexander the Great / Zul Qarnain was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Historical records however show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age (356 - 323 B.C.), and believed he himself was divine, forcing others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River (now Beas) Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods showing he was not a monotheist.

Zul Qarnain in the Qur'an who was regarded as prophet/ rasool but historically is established as Alexander the great (even Islamic scholars say he is Alexander the great) and muslims believe that all prophets and rasools were muslims or at least monoheists or they had tauheed belief. Alexander the Great was a historic Legend during Mohammeds time and being lair Mohammed , he claimed him as an honorary Muslim.

Ifeann:



You just contradicted ur prophet and his quran.



According to the Quran (Surah 18:89-98) Alexander the Great / Zul Qarnain was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Historical records however show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age (356 - 323 B.C.), and believed he himself was divine, forcing others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River (now Beas) Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods showing he was not a monotheist.

Zul Qarnain in the Qur'an who was regarded as prophet/ rasool but historically is established as Alexander the great (even Islamic scholars say he is Alexander the great) and muslims believe that all prophets and rasools were muslims or at least monoheists or they had tauheed belief. Alexander the Great was a historic Legend during Mohammeds time and being lair Mohammed , he claimed him as an honorary Muslim.

Historically established! Aha, now I see where you went wrong. Historians said zhul Qarnayn is Alexander the great? Did the Quran or any authentic hadith say zhul Qarnayn was Alexander the great? In that case, what I contradicted was the historians... not the Quran.

Actually, most scholars believe it was Cyrus the great. The Quran is silent on the identity. Everything here is mere mortal speculation. Could be right or could be wrong. Even your assertion that he was a prophet or messenger of Allah has no backing in the Quran or authentic hadith; that I know of.

shahydbinaliyu:



pele... i can feel your pain... seeing the inside of Khabah proved all the trashy believe you have about islam void.. the truth hurt you so much that you can't take it... pele.. sorry ehn...


abeg we need more conspiracy theories to debunk... we getting bored...

thanks

Can't take what??

Lol. This one is slow.

Did u even read what I said.

Everybody who knows Islam, knows inside the kaaba is as empty as Islam.
The kaaba itself is ur idol. However Muslims venerate, revere and apotheosize it

Who does not know the kaaba has nothing inside. Do u think Christians presume u have voodoo objects inside.

The kaaba is ur shrine and idol.

Why do u circumvent it. What's the reason. Can u answer that.
Why do u bow towards it.
Why do u kiss the black stone.
Why is it dressed in black
What does that do to ur soul except bond u to paganism.

Abuamam:


Historically established! Aha, now I see where you went wrong. Historians said zhul Qarnayn is Alexander the great? Did the Quran or any authentic hadith say zhul Qarnayn was Alexander the great? In that case, what I contradicted was the historians... not the Quran.

Actually, most scholars believe it was Cyrus the great. The Quran is silent on the identity. Everything here is mere mortal speculation. Could be right or could be wrong. Even your assertion that he was a prophet or messenger of Allah has no backing in the Quran or authentic hadith; that I know of.

I didn't know Muslims now want to claim Cyrus the great as a muslim since Alex d great didn't work out.

But I wonder why the quran didn't point to cyrus the great clearly as Zul Qarnain since he was even more appreciated and respected by the Jews before the advent of Islam.



U know a lot of scholars, even Islamic scholars suggest Zul Qarnain is Alexander the great because of the evidence contained in ur quran and hadiths but unfortunately this can be debated because quran has its skewed dissimilar Arabic names for everyone including blasphemously claim Lord Jesus, was isa and Gabriel as jubril.

May God forgive you for hardening you heart to truth.

Ifeann:


Can't take what??

Lol. This one is slow.

Did u even read what I said.


Who does not know the kaaba has nothing inside. Do u think Christians presume u have voodoo objects inside.

The kaaba is ur shrine and idol.

Why do u circumvent it. What's the reason. Can u answer that.
Why do u bow towards it.
Why do u kiss the black stone.
Why is it dressed in black
What does that do to ur soul except bond u to paganism.

All answered in a previous comment. Don't repeat yourself.

Ifeann:


I didn't know Muslims now want to claim Cyrus the great as a muslim since Alex d great didn't work out.

But I wonder why the quran didn't point to cyrus the great clearly as Zul Qarnain since he was even more appreciated and respected by the Jews before the advent of Islam.



U know a lot of scholars, even Islamic scholars suggest Zul Qarnain is Alexander the great because of the evidence contained in ur quran and hadiths but unfortunately this can be debated because quran has its skewed dissimilar Arabic names for everyone including blasphemously claim Lord Jesus, was isa and Gabriel as jubril.

May God forgive you for hardening you heart to truth.

As I said, all this is mere speculation. The Quran merely says that there was a man called or described as zhul Qarnain. The Quran narrated some of the man's travels. Scholars and historians then brought forward their personal opinions on who it could be; and you want to foist their opinions on us as being part of the Quran... knowing clearly that it is not. Bring your evidence that the Quran or any authentic hadith points to Alexander the great as zhul Qarnayn.

Abuamam:


All answered in a previous comment. Don't repeat yourself.

All u did in that comment was reaffirm ur pagan practise, u didn't answer WHY you do then, u merely STATED that u do them; with the exception of covering the kabba from getting destroyed by the "elements", the only building people bow to that is covered in cloth because you Islamic god can't protect it from the "elements" wow!! Later u will claim u refuted my posts.

By the way why do u kiss the black stone, u skipped it.0

Ifeann:


Can't take what??

Lol. This one is slow.

Did u even read what I said.


Who does not know the kaaba has nothing inside. Do u think Christians presume u have voodoo objects inside.

The kaaba is ur shrine and idol.

Why do u circumvent it. What's the reason. Can u answer that.
Why do u bow towards it.
Why do u kiss the black stone.
Why is it dressed in black
What does that do to ur soul except bond u to paganism.

do u know dead Muslims are buried facing d black stone?

Abuamam:


As I said, all this is mere speculation. The Quran merely says that there was a man called or described as zhul Qarnain. The Quran narrated some of the man's travels. Scholars and historians then brought forward their personal opinions on who it could be; and you want to foist their opinions on us as being part of the Quran... knowing clearly that it is not. Bring your evidence that the Quran or any authentic hadith points to Alexander the great as zhul Qarnayn.

Now abuamam, before I reply u, are u going to tell me you have NEVER seen any suggestion or opinion from an Islamic source that Zul Qarnain was Alexander the great. On ur "honor" as a muslim will u answer this honestly.


Modified:

While u think of how to answer that pls think of these as well.

1.The Ka'aba was destroyed at least twice after Muhammad's death.
Why didn't Islamic Allah send birds to protect the Ka'aba then?
2.The Black Stone in the Ka'aba has been struck and smashed by a stone fired from a catapult, it has been smeared with excrement, stolen and ransomed by the Qarmatians, and smashed into several fragments.
Why did Islamic Allah not protect this important 'holy' stone from desecration and damage?
3.Why do Muslims follow the pre-Islamic pagan practice of circling the Ka'aba (Tawaf)?
Is Islamic Allah okay with paganism ?
4.Do you think it's strange that Judaism and Christianity (the religions of those who are considered People of the Book) do not practice ritual circumambulation (e.g. circling the Ka'aba) to please God, but pre-Islamic Arab Paganism and Hinduism and Buddhism (religions older than Islam and accused by Islam of “paganism”) do practice ritual circumambulation?
where the pagan religions and Islam right and the monotheist Jews and Christians wrong?
5.Why do you have to circumambulate the Ka'aba seven times? Why not just once? Why not eight or six times? And why only in a counter-clockwise direction?
Isn't this strange?? Its like licking ur ice cream counter clockwise 7Times, does it improve the flavour ??
6.Whenever royalty or important persons come to the Ka'aba, security give them a special place for prayer in the hateem.
Why is there such inequality at the Ka'aba? Seems Islamic Allah has favourites
7.There are hundreds of cleaners at the Ka'aba who regularly clean away pigeon droppings.
If the Masjid al-Haram is truly holy, why does Allah allow birds to, quite frankly, sh.it on it?

Ovacoma:

do u know dead Muslims are buried facing d black stone?

Black stone or kaaba??

I have not across this info. I try to keep my interest on living Muslims and not dead ones.

Any hadith or quran verse instructing on this.??
Cc abuamam.

Abuamam:


Alexander the great was a pagan. I did not say he is a Muslim.

I should now school you in your religion? Surah 18:89-98

Islam teaches us that its practice has been in existence in one form or the other, since the creation of mankind.

It also teaches that Camel piss is natural cancer cure
Listen negro, Islam may claim anything but it's claims don't stand to logic. If it is the oldest religion, there should be EVIDENCE of its existence. I just threw you a bone and you fell for it.

If I told you Moses had a white iPad Air 64GB, what would you aks me first? How comes seeing iPad Air is barely 2 years young (2013 October) ? But I respond by claiming that Apple is simply reinventing something Allah had given Moses thousands of years ago. You persist, where is the evidence of Allah giving Moses an iPad Air or Moses possessing one? I tell you that ALL evidence got lost but thousands of years after Moses, Allah has reminded us that he gave Moses an iPad Air.

In short Islam a religion of ret@rds can ONLY support its revisionism INTERNALLY.

I understand your pain; seeing as xtianity cannot make any claims beyond Saul/Paul.

Christianity predates Paul, it was started by Lord Jesus Christ, was founded on Judaism, it is the only system based on reason and logic.

The facts however, remain facts; "though the disbelievers hate it". Calling the comment 'illogical', detracts nothing from its truth.

Islam can't stand reason. That's why your family would probably kill you should you recant. It is a religion of fear

Islam was the first religion on earth.

And there is EVIDENCE of EVERY other religion that has ever existed before 500AD except Islam. In my life I never thought I'd ever run into a grown up making such asinine claims

Any other religions (including xtianity), can only be Satan-corrupted practices of the true faith.

Allah must be a weakling to allow obliteration of ANY evidence of her beloved religion for thousands of years not to mention corruption of the same. Which begs the question, how sure are you whatever she revealed to Mo' is not corrupted? Has she suddenly acquired some abilities to preserve the Truth, something she lacked for all those thousands of years as man was being deceived by Satan who Abraham beat with stones?

Ifeann:


Now abuamam, before I reply u, are u going to tell me you have NEVER seen any suggestion or opinion from an Islamic source that Zul Qarnain was Alexander the great. On ur "honor" as a muslim will u answer this honestly.


Modified:

While u think of how to answer that pls think of these as well.

1.The Ka'aba was destroyed at least twice after Muhammad's death.
Why didn't Islamic Allah send birds to protect the Ka'aba then?
2.The Black Stone in the Ka'aba has been struck and smashed by a stone fired from a catapult, it has been smeared with excrement, stolen and ransomed by the Qarmatians, and smashed into several fragments.
Why did Islamic Allah not protect this important 'holy' stone from desecration and damage?
3.Why do Muslims follow the pre-Islamic pagan practice of circling the Ka'aba (Tawaf)?
Is Islamic Allah okay with paganism ?
4.Do you think it's strange that Judaism and Christianity (the religions of those who are considered People of the Book) do not practice ritual circumambulation (e.g. circling the Ka'aba) to please God, but pre-Islamic Arab Paganism and Hinduism and Buddhism (religions older than Islam and accused by Islam of “paganism”) do practice ritual circumambulation?
where the pagan religions and Islam right and the monotheist Jews and Christians wrong?
5.Why do you have to circumambulate the Ka'aba seven times? Why not just once? Why not eight or six times? And why only in a counter-clockwise direction?
Isn't this strange?? Its like licking ur ice cream counter clockwise 7Times, does it improve the flavour ??
6.Whenever royalty or important persons come to the Ka'aba, security give them a special place for prayer in the hateem.
Why is there such inequality at the Ka'aba? Seems Islamic Allah has favourites
7.There are hundreds of cleaners at the Ka'aba who regularly clean away pigeon droppings.
If the Masjid al-Haram is truly holy, why does Allah allow birds to, quite frankly, sh.it on it?

You do not have to continually hold me on my honour as a Muslim. I state categorically that I NEVER lie to promote my religion. I say it as it is. Contrary to your oft-stated belief, I have no doubts that lying is strongly prohibited in Islam; and I will not risk the anger of my Lord, just to win an argument with ifeann and co. Furthermore, lying about Allah, or about His prophets, is the worst of the worst of all lies.

Of course, and I repeat, many Islamic scholars give their OPINIONS that zhul Qarnayn is Alexander the great. Many believe it is Cyrus the great. Some say it is Heraclius. Others favour the prophet Sulaiman (as). I am sure you can google the info and find this out yourself. All are unsubstantiated opinions. I never denied that. I just said that these are not based on any id from the Quran itself or any authentic hadith... as you well know. The scholars or historians merely point out to similarities between the travels of zhul Qarnayn, and whichever historic figure they personally favour. The mere fact that there are so many opinions,pshould prove to you that there are no Islamic sources that clarify the id of zhul Qarnayn. The term zhul Qarnayn itself is not a name. It is a description, implying a 2-horned helmet perhaps or coat-of-arms. Allah knows best.

1-2. Yes, the Kaaba and the black stone had been damaged by infighting among different Muslim sects. The damage was always UNINTENTIONAL. Allah did not punish them because He knew their intentions were never to damage the Kaaba. Same with the pigeons. Added to that is the fact that nowhere did I or anyone else state that the Kaaba was indestructible, or that the black stone has any special powers. It is just a stone that was brought down by Adam (as) as a reminder of the paradise that he lost due to his disobedience, and a sign of hope for the reattainment of that paradise; which Allah alone has the key to. That is all. You foist your own beliefs on Islam, then ask Muslims to defend those beliefs.

3. The pagans took the rites from the prophets Ibrahim and Ismail (pbut), corrupting it to include the worship of their newly imported gods. The prophet (saw) purified it of those introduced idols and restored it to the worship of the Almighty Allah alone.

4. Xtian and jewish beliefs are in themselves, corruptions of the faiths taught by the prophets Jesus and Moses (pbut) respectively. The prophet (saw) was sent to correct the corrupted faith. We cannot say whether or not circumnambulation of any site was a part of those faiths or not. We cannot say if the version of Islam revealed to Moses mandated 5 daily prayers, though some verses in the OT seem to indicate that the Israelites seemed to perform rites that are very similar to the current Islamic salat. All we say is that each prophet, and there were thousands; was sent to his people with his own version of Islam, based on similar basic principles... ie Monotheism, and obedience to societal and spiritual laws revealed by Allah. So those prophets sent to the precursors of the Hindus, might have taught their people the circumnambulation as an act of monotheistic worship, and they kept the tradition, as Meccans did; after their prophets died and they had turned to idol worship.

5. Asking why 7times instead of 3 or 5 is neither here nor there. Allah knows best why He mandated 7. If He had mandated 12, you would still say why 12? This is a silly waste of time. No doubt it has benefits for us, since ALL laws mandated by Allah are beneficial. We are imperfect and cannot know all that God knows. Sufficient for us is that we submit to Allah's commands... be they 7 or 17.

6. Well, I don't know if you are correct in that assertion. I prayed close to the Imams Sudaisy, Shuraim and others when in the mosque on many occasions. I was not barred from standing quite close to their position; maybe 2 or 3 lines behind. If what you say is true, I can suggest that maybe royalty may be seperated for security reasons. This argument too is neither here nor there. The Saudi royals are not gods or prophets. They can make laws that are unIslamic, or based on their ijtihad; which may be wrong. No human is perfect.

^ Nothing else to add. That sums it all.

Abuamam:


You do not have to continually hold me on my honour as a Muslim. I state categorically that I NEVER lie to promote my religion. I say it as it is. Contrary to your oft-stated belief, I have no doubts that lying is strongly prohibited in Islam; and I will not risk the anger of my Lord, just to win an argument with ifeann and co. Furthermore, lying about Allah, or about His prophets, is the worst of the worst of all lies.

Mashallah, @underlined, that's just FACT

Abuamam:


You do not have to continually hold me on my honour as a Muslim. I state categorically that I NEVER lie to promote my religion. I say it as it is. Contrary to your oft-stated belief, I have no doubts that lying is strongly prohibited in Islam; and I will not risk the anger of my Lord, just to win an argument with ifeann and co. Furthermore, lying about Allah, or about His prophets, is the worst of the worst of all lies.

Of course, and I repeat, many Islamic scholars give their OPINIONS that zhul Qarnayn is Alexander the great. Many believe it is Cyrus the great. Some say it is Heraclius. Others favour the prophet Sulaiman (as). I am sure you can google the info and find this out yourself. All are unsubstantiated opinions. I never denied that. I just said that these are not based on any id from the Quran itself or any authentic hadith... as you well know. The scholars or historians merely point out to similarities between the travels of zhul Qarnayn, and whichever historic figure they personally favour. The mere fact that there are so many opinions,pshould prove to you that there are no Islamic sources that clarify the id of zhul Qarnayn. The term zhul Qarnayn itself is not a name. It is a description, implying a 2-horned helmet perhaps or coat-of-arms. Allah knows best.

1-2. Yes, the Kaaba and the black stone had been damaged by infighting among different Muslim sects. The damage was always UNINTENTIONAL. Allah did not punish them because He knew their intentions were never to damage the Kaaba. Same with the pigeons. Added to that is the fact that nowhere did I or anyone else state that the Kaaba was indestructible, or that the black stone has any special powers. It is just a stone that was brought down by Adam (as) as a reminder of the paradise that he lost due to his disobedience, and a sign of hope for the reattainment of that paradise; which Allah alone has the key to. That is all. You foist your own beliefs on Islam, then ask Muslims to defend those beliefs.

3. The pagans took the rites from the prophets Ibrahim and Ismail (pbut), corrupting it to include the worship of their newly imported gods. The prophet (saw) purified it of those introduced idols and restored it to the worship of the Almighty Allah alone.

4. Xtian and jewish beliefs are in themselves, corruptions of the faiths taught by the prophets Jesus and Moses (pbut) respectively. The prophet (saw) was sent to correct the corrupted faith. We cannot say whether or not circumnambulation of any site was a part of those faiths or not. We cannot say if the version of Islam revealed to Moses mandated 5 daily prayers, though some verses in the OT seem to indicate that the Israelites seemed to perform rites that are very similar to the current Islamic salat. All we say is that each prophet, and there were thousands; was sent to his people with his own version of Islam, based on similar basic principles... ie Monotheism, and obedience to societal and spiritual laws revealed by Allah. So those prophets sent to the precursors of the Hindus, might have taught their people the circumnambulation as an act of monotheistic worship, and they kept the tradition, as Meccans did; after their prophets died and they had turned to idol worship.

5. Asking why 7times instead of 3 or 5 is neither here nor there. Allah knows best why He mandated 7. If He had mandated 12, you would still say why 12? This is a silly waste of time. No doubt it has benefits for us, since ALL laws mandated by Allah are beneficial. We are imperfect and cannot know all that God knows. Sufficient for us is that we submit to Allah's commands... be they 7 or 17.

6. Well, I don't know if you are correct in that assertion. I prayed close to the Imams Sudaisy, Shuraim and others when in the mosque on many occasions. I was not barred from standing quite close to their position; maybe 2 or 3 lines behind. If what you say is true, I can suggest that maybe royalty may be seperated for security reasons. This argument too is neither here nor there. The Saudi royals are not gods or prophets. They can make laws that are unIslamic, or based on their ijtihad; which may be wrong. No human is perfect.

Well said.

But I bet my last Kobo on it, this bigot- Ifeann aka parisbookaddict is definitely going to ask these same questions again sooner or later. I have personally responded to these same questions in the past; but because they are not interested in clarifying any doubt- just to drag others into their empty, non productive ways, they ask the same questions that have been answered over and over and over and over again!!

Abuamam:



...especially since it negates our cherished xtian belief that the Kaaba is full of idols and fetish objects. We do not want to see any disturbing evidence that will negate that belief.

Don't mind them!

Ifeann:


[s] Everybody who knows Islam, knows inside the kaaba is as empty as Islam.


The kaaba itself is ur idol. However Muslims venerate, revere and apotheosize it, even more than roman Catholics that choose to venerate statues.

U Muslims considered the kabba a woman and dress "her" in black "hijab", .and after doing ur circling and chanting u kiss the black stone. If u do NOT see the idolatry in this then common sense will not make u renounce Islam. My Brother in humanity don't tell us its harmless fun. Its disgusting idolatry period.

Cc shahydbinaliyu, Rilwayne001, empiree [/s]

Ifeann aka parisbookaddict, what did you expect to see inside?? Skulls of past prophets to serve as evidence of their coming

Imagine you asking a d*umb question that why didn't Allah prevent people from destroying the kaabah, why didn't your 'god' prevent the holy temple from being destroyed?? Yeye girl

If the inside of Kaabah was adorned with gold and silver, you would still have called Islam 'vain' and 'wordly'

Why do you think your opinions matter to Muslims anyway? You must really think you're special

9jaforlife:


Ifeann aka parisbookaddict, what did you expect to see inside?? Skulls of past prophets to serve as evidence of their coming

Imagine you asking a d*umb question that why didn't Allah prevent people from destroying the kaabah, why didn't your 'god' prevent the holy temple from being destroyed?? Yeye girl

If the inside of Kaabah was adorned with gold and silver, you would still have called Islam 'vain' and 'wordly'

Why do you think your opinions matter to Muslims anyway? You must really think you're special

Exactly.

vooks:
Do you ever think before posting?
When Allah is cornered stealing pagan rituals, it is pagans who perverted the true religion and she/he is just restoring it.
When Allah is cornered DISTORTING, defiling and rewriting history with blatant lies such as Alexander the Great being Muslim, this is 'factual' only that it was totally lost (zero prior historical records ) of the same and he/she is now revealing it.

So whether you cook and distort history or you plagiarize paganism, you are always right

You may as well tell us that Mohammed was the original iPad manufacturer and Steve Jobs merely REDISCOVERED them

Ifeann, abeg come and breath some sense into this primate

No darling. Alex worshiped what you also worship now, pagan

Abuamam:



4. Xtian and jewish beliefs are in themselves, corruptions of the faiths taught by the prophets Jesus and Moses (pbut) respectively. The prophet (saw) was sent to correct the corrupted faith. We cannot say whether or not circumnambulation of any site was a part of those faiths or not. We cannot say if the version of Islam revealed to Moses mandated 5 daily prayers, though some verses in the OT seem to indicate that the Israelites seemed to perform rites that are very similar to the current Islamic salat. All we say is that each prophet, and there were thousands; was sent to his people with his own version of Islam, based on similar basic principles... ie Monotheism, and obedience to societal and spiritual laws revealed by Allah. So those prophets sent to the precursors of the Hindus, might have taught their people the circumnambulation as an act of monotheistic worship, and they kept the tradition, as Meccans did; after their prophets died and they had turned to idol worship.

Please csn you give us the name of any of the prophets that was sent to the Indians? Remember we have st least 4000 years of uninterrupted written history from the Indians and all the religions they have been practicing. Tell us the name of one of the prophets that eas sent by Allah to the Indians lets check and see if it agrees with their thousands of yeats of written history.

I would gladly teach you logic as soon as you grow a brain

Empiree:
No darling. Alex worshiped what you also worship now, pagan

Abuamam will tell you that Allah somewhat ERASED all evidence of these fictitious prophets, left us with a rich historical legacy of Indian religion minus the primitive version of Islam

Who was the FIRST Muslim?

dalaman:


Please csn you give us the name of any of the prophets that was sent to the Indians? Remember we have st least 4000 years of uninterrupted written history from the Indians and all the religions they have been practicing. Tell us the name of one of the prophets that eas sent by Allah to the Indians lets check and see if it agrees with their thousands of yeats of written history.

dalaman:


Please csn you give us the name of any of the prophets that was sent to the Indians? Remember we have st least 4000 years of uninterrupted written history from the Indians and all the religions they have been practicing. Tell us the name of one of the prophets that eas sent by Allah to the Indians lets check and see if it agrees with their thousands of yeats of written history.

The prophet (saw) has told us that more than a hundred thousand prophets and messengers have been sent to individual communities of people. Their names are neither important nor beneficial, and I do not want to speculate. We know that initially, the Hindu religion was monotheistic, and the 'higher' class of brahmans still consider polytheism to be the religion of the lower classes.

Ref. Wikipedia on Hindu views on monotheism.

vooks:
Abuamam will tell you that Allah somewhat ERASED all evidence of these fictitious prophets, left us with a rich historical legacy of Indian religion minus the primitive version of Islam
Who was the FIRST Muslim?

You are always trying to insinuate what I did not say, into my comments. Allah did not ERASE anything; people corrupted their own scriptures, as even a cursory look at bible history will easily prove. Allah merely did not Will to protect past scriptures from corruption, since He knew that they were only meant for a certain time and place. The Hindu religion itself is not a single view or belief. There are literally hundreds of different creeds and views, all encompassed within the term 'Hindu'.

Adam (as); the father of mankind; was the first Muslim.

Abuamam:


You do not have to continually hold me on my honour as a Muslim. I state categorically that I NEVER lie to promote my religion. I say it as it is. Contrary to your oft-stated belief, I have no doubts that lying is strongly prohibited in Islam; and I will not risk the anger of my Lord, just to win an argument with ifeann and co. Furthermore, lying about Allah, or about His prophets, is the worst of the worst of all lies.

Of course, and I repeat, many Islamic scholars give their OPINIONS that zhul Qarnayn is Alexander the great. Many believe it is Cyrus the great. Some say it is Heraclius. Others favour the prophet Sulaiman (as). I am sure you can google the info and find this out yourself. All are unsubstantiated opinions. I never denied that. I just said that these are not based on any id from the Quran itself or any authentic hadith... as you well know. The scholars or historians merely point out to similarities between the travels of zhul Qarnayn, and whichever historic figure they personally favour. The mere fact that there are so many opinions,pshould prove to you that there are no Islamic sources that clarify the id of zhul Qarnayn. The term zhul Qarnayn itself is not a name. It is a description, implying a 2-horned helmet perhaps or coat-of-arms. Allah knows best.

1-2. Yes, the Kaaba and the black stone had been damaged by infighting among different Muslim sects. The damage was always UNINTENTIONAL. Allah did not punish them because He knew their intentions were never to damage the Kaaba. Same with the pigeons. Added to that is the fact that nowhere did I or anyone else state that the Kaaba was indestructible, or that the black stone has any special powers. It is just a stone that was brought down by Adam (as) as a reminder of the paradise that he lost due to his disobedience, and a sign of hope for the reattainment of that paradise; which Allah alone has the key to. That is all. You foist your own beliefs on Islam, then ask Muslims to defend those beliefs.

3. The pagans took the rites from the prophets Ibrahim and Ismail (pbut), corrupting it to include the worship of their newly imported gods. The prophet (saw) purified it of those introduced idols and restored it to the worship of the Almighty Allah alone.

4. Xtian and jewish beliefs are in themselves, corruptions of the faiths taught by the prophets Jesus and Moses (pbut) respectively. The prophet (saw) was sent to correct the corrupted faith. We cannot say whether or not circumnambulation of any site was a part of those faiths or not. We cannot say if the version of Islam revealed to Moses mandated 5 daily prayers, though some verses in the OT seem to indicate that the Israelites seemed to perform rites that are very similar to the current Islamic salat. All we say is that each prophet, and there were thousands; was sent to his people with his own version of Islam, based on similar basic principles... ie Monotheism, and obedience to societal and spiritual laws revealed by Allah. So those prophets sent to the precursors of the Hindus, might have taught their people the circumnambulation as an act of monotheistic worship, and they kept the tradition, as Meccans did; after their prophets died and they had turned to idol worship.

5. Asking why 7times instead of 3 or 5 is neither here nor there. Allah knows best why He mandated 7. If He had mandated 12, you would still say why 12? This is a silly waste of time. No doubt it has benefits for us, since ALL laws mandated by Allah are beneficial. We are imperfect and cannot know all that God knows. Sufficient for us is that we submit to Allah's commands... be they 7 or 17.

6. Well, I don't know if you are correct in that assertion. I prayed close to the Imams Sudaisy, Shuraim and others when in the mosque on many occasions. I was not barred from standing quite close to their position; maybe 2 or 3 lines behind. If what you say is true, I can suggest that maybe royalty may be seperated for security reasons. This argument too is neither here nor there. The Saudi royals are not gods or prophets. They can make laws that are unIslamic, or based on their ijtihad; which may be wrong. No human is perfect.

May Allah reward you and other brothers for patiently explaining these to them. I hope she won't recycle them again.

9jaforlife:

Well said.
But I bet my last Kobo on it, this bigot- Ifeann aka parisbookaddict is definitely going to ask these same questions again sooner or later. I have personally responded to these same questions in the past; but because they are not interested in clarifying any doubt- just to drag others into their empty, non productive ways, they ask the same questions that have been answered over and over and over and over again!!

udatso:

May Allah reward you and other brothers for patiently explaining these to them. I hope she won't recycle them again.

Lol. You are both right. She did; opened a new thread with the exact same set of questions.

She is not really looking for answers, she is looking for adulation from her 'fan club'. So whenever she thinks she has said something smart; in her opinion; she likes to quickly go and publicise it.

Sad really. She must really be attention-deprived. It may not be her fault that she is an attention seeker.

Abuamam:


The prophet (saw) has told us that more than a hundred thousand prophets and messengers have been sent to individual communities of people. Their names are neither important nor beneficial, and I do not want to speculate. We know that initially, the Hindu religion was monotheistic, and the 'higher' class of brahmans still consider polytheism to be the religion of the lower classes.

Ref. Wikipedia on Hindu views on Monotheism .

I don't care what the prophet Mohammed said. I only care about what the reality is. We have over 3000 years of written Hindu religious history and nothing close to Islam is written in any of their religious scripture. We have the names of their gurus and all their Gods and Goddesses. Allah gets no mention anywhere in their thousands of years of written religious history. Are all monotheistic religions Muslims? Are the Jews of today Muslims? What about scientologist ? I am tired of muslims rigging the system and making false claims. What part of Hindu religious teaching claim that they knew anything about Allah? Who were the prophets that Allah sent to them? Why are they nameless? How come that over 3000 years of their written religious history Allah gets no mention in any part of their religion? Is Brahma the same deity as Allah?

dalaman:


I don't care what the prophet Mohammed said. I only care about what the reality is. We have over 3000 years of written Hindu religious history and nothing close to Islam is written in any of their religious scripture. We have the names of their gurus and all their Gods and Goddesses. Allah gets no mention anywhere in their thousands of years of written religious history. Are all monotheistic religions Muslims? Are the Jews of today Muslims? What about scientologist ? I am tired of muslims rigging the system and making false claims. What part of Hindu religious teaching claim that they knew anything about Allah? Who were the prophets that Allah sent to them? Why are they nameless? How come that over 3000 years of their written religious history Allah gets no mention in any part of their religion? Is Brahma the same deity as Allah?

I was patiently reading this thread until I came across this bellend? Anyone who tells you your brain is functioning well is cheating you, mad man!

EzioAuditore:


I was patiently reading this thread until I came across this bellend? Anyone who tells you your brain is functioning well is cheating you, mad man!

What is this self confessed sadistic pyromaniac saying?

dalaman:


What is this self confessed sadistic pyromaniac saying?

I am saying that you are possibly ( I swear, I mean this honestly ) the dumbest kermunger I have ever met in my life.

Garbage.
You don't care about the prophets sent before but you care enough to tell us they were sent? What's the point?

Supposing I woke up in 2015 and dismissed ALL existing and past religions as corruption of the true religion which Allah has just revealed to me. You'd have to be equally ret@rded like me to believe me

You suggest corruption of your god's religion served his purpose? What purpose did it serve?

Adam was the first Muslim?

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12

Abuamam:


The prophet (saw) has told us that more than a hundred thousand prophets and messengers have been sent to individual communities of people. Their names are neither important nor beneficial, and I do not want to speculate. We know that initially, the Hindu religion was monotheistic, and the 'higher' class of brahmans still consider polytheism to be the religion of the lower classes.

Ref. Wikipedia on Hindu views on monotheism.



You are always trying to insinuate what I did not say, into my comments. Allah did not ERASE anything; people corrupted their own scriptures, as even a cursory look at bible history will easily prove. Allah merely did not Will to protect past scriptures from corruption, since He knew that they were only meant for a certain time and place. The Hindu religion itself is not a single view or belief. There are literally hundreds of different creeds and views, all encompassed within the term 'Hindu'.

Adam (as); the father of mankind; was the first Muslim.

Abuamam:


You do not have to continually hold me on my honour as a Muslim. I state categorically that I NEVER lie to promote my religion. I say it as it is. Contrary to your oft-stated belief, I have no doubts that lying is strongly prohibited in Islam; and I will not risk the anger of my Lord, just to win an argument with ifeann and co. Furthermore, lying about Allah, or about His prophets, is the worst of the worst of all lies.

But we all know about al Taqiyya. The free pass given to Muslims to lie in an effort to propagate Islam. U may not be comfortable using it but several nairaland muslim use it.

Ibn Kathir on 3:28—Allah said next, (unless you indeed fear a danger from them) meaning, except those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda' said, "We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.'' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, "The Tuqyah (al Taqiyya) is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.''

Of course, and I repeat, many Islamic scholars give their OPINIONS that zhul Qarnayn is Alexander the great.

Thanks for confirming I said the truth. Mind u these are Arab Islamic scholars of the highest Islamic calibre and not abuamam, rilwanyne001, tola9ja or any other African self appointed Islamic defender on nairaland.

Many believe it is Cyrus the great. Some say it is Heraclius. Others favour the prophet Sulaiman (as). I am sure you can google the info and find this out yourself. All are unsubstantiated opinions. I never denied that. I just said that these are not based on any id from the Quran itself or any authentic hadith... as you well know. The scholars or historians merely point out to similarities between the travels of zhul Qarnayn, and whichever historic figure they personally favour. The mere fact that there are so many opinions,pshould prove to you that there are no Islamic sources that clarify the id of zhul Qarnayn. The term zhul Qarnayn itself is not a name. It is a description, implying a 2-horned helmet perhaps or coat-of-arms. Allah knows best.

This is ur attempt to correct Mohammed and his Islamic allah, devout Arab Muslims scholars will not like this. The consensus is that the quran was talking about Alexander the great. Do u want links to articles from Arab Islamic scholars. ??

1-2. Yes, the Kaaba and the black stone had been damaged by infighting among different Muslim sects. The damage was always UNINTENTIONAL.Allah did not punish them because He knew their intentions were never to damage the Kaaba.

Okay it was unintentional damage and allah didn't mind. This is ur answer. Okay.
Empiree and 9jaforlife this is ur scholars reply. Allah didn't mind.

anyway why are Muslims always fighting, ur history is soaked in blood. Since u Muslims murdered your own prophets grand kids and Till this very day. What is the fight about.

nowhere did I or anyone else state that the Kaaba was indestructible, or that the black stone has any special powers. It is just a stone that was brought down by Adam (as) as a reminder of the paradise that he lost due to his disobedience,

I won't argue about ur myth of it being sent to Adam. But I will ask If its not a special stone why then do u apotheosize it. What is the benefit.

3. The pagans took the rites from the prophets Ibrahim and Ismail (pbut), corrupting it to include the worship of their newly imported gods. The prophet (saw) purified it of those introduced idols and restored it to the worship of the Almighty Allah alone.

where is the proof. The torah never says this. Despite being thousands of years older than the quran and compiled by different ancient Jewish prophets and historians .

4. Xtian and jewish beliefs are in themselves, corruptions of the faiths taught by the prophets Jesus and Moses (pbut) respectively. The prophet (saw) was sent to correct the corrupted faith. We cannot say whether or not circumnambulation of any site was a part of those faiths or not.

Emmmm. Please Listen to me carefully, u too empiree and 9jaforlife, The "people of the book" Jews and Christians got the torah and gospel centuries before Islam was invented and in it there is nothing like kaaba or circumnambulation, kissing the black stone or other pagan rituals.

But Mohammed who is known to pick practices from different religions in an effort to win followers comes and says this pagan practises are actually okay as practised by the pre Islamic pagan religions. His tribe inclusive, even tho such does not exist in thousands of years of Jewish history in the OT and NT, torah and gospel. Doesn't this seem suspicious.??

We cannot say if the version of Islam revealed to Moses mandated 5 daily prayers,

On the contra we can see exactly what God revealed to Moses, and it wasn't any version of Islam. The mosaic laws and old law as contained in the pentateuch are very precise. Their are over 600 laws and none says pray 5 times a day. In the Gospel, christ says pray without ceasing and this is how true Christianity is. U live ur life like a prayer. 5 is not a magic number.

though some verses in the OT seem to indicate that the Israelites seemed to perform rites that are very similar to the current Islamic salat.

Yes Jews were doing a ritual cleansing similar to what Islam copied thousands of years later and not the other way round. This ritual cleansing was criticised by Christ as being hypocrisy.

All we say is that each prophet, and there were thousands; was sent to his people with his own version of Islam, based on similar basic principles... ie Monotheism, and obedience to societal and spiritual laws revealed by Allah. So those prophets sent to the precursors of the Hindus,might have taught their people the circumnambulation as an act of monotheistic worship, and they kept the tradition, as Meccans did; after their prophets died and they had turned to idol worship.

So u are claiming allah sent prophets to the ancestors of the pagan Hindus. So Islamic allah also inadvertently started Hinduism. When I ask these questions again u will claim u have already answered them, but ur answers so far has been as faceticous as it has been absurd.
I will ask u again, how does walking around a former pagan stone in war torn middle east constitute worshipping the God of the universe.

5. Asking why 7times instead of 3 or 5 is neither here nor there. Allah knows best why He mandated 7. If He had mandated 12, you would still say why 12? This is a silly waste of time. No doubt it has benefits for us, since ALL laws mandated by Allah are beneficial. We are imperfect and cannot know all that God knows. Sufficient for us is that we submit to Allah's commands... be they 7 or 17.

Is 7 a magic number or ancient pagan superstition or will u just say "allah knows best"

6. Well, I don't know if you are correct in that assertion. I prayed close to the Imams Sudaisy, Shuraim and others when in the mosque on many occasions. I was not barred from standing quite close to their position; maybe 2 or 3 lines behind. If what you say is true, I can suggest that maybe royalty may be seperated for security reasons. This argument too is neither here nor there. The Saudi royals are not gods or prophets. They can make laws that are unIslamic, or based on their ijtihad; which may be wrong. No human is perfect.

At least u admit the inequality rift in Saudi even amongst Muslims in a supposedly "holy" place. This is the type of nonsense u see in "mushroom churches" who put high paying members in the front sits. If silly "mushroom church" behaviour is found in the highest place in Islam then u aren't any better.

Please address my questions if u can and if u can't then renounce Islam.