The bible says that Jesus alread knew that Judas Iscariot was going to betray him, but here is the problem.

Mat 19:27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"

Mat 19:28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Matthew 19:28

All 12 disciples are to sit on thrones in heaven judging the twelve tribes of Israel? Including Judas Iscariot, who Jesus already knows will later betray him for 30 pieces of silver and then hang himself? there are two very contradictory account of his(Judas Iscariot) death in the bible Acts 1:18 gives a very different account of the death of Judas than what is written in Matthew 27:3-10. In Acts, it says he fell headlong into the field he bought with the silver he had been paid for betraying Jesus, and his body exploded, guts flying everywhere. In Matthew we read that he tried to return the silver to the chief priests, then threw the silver down when they refused it, then went and hanged himself, and after all this the chief priests decided to use the silver to buy the field.

Is Judas Iscariot still going to be amongst the 12 disciples that sit on the throne when Jesus is judging the 12 tribes of Israel in heaven after betraying Jesus?

god has replaced him with apostle paul.this is done in fulfilment of the scripture as clearly slated in psalms.i can't really get the verse now but will do that later

Christianity is based on faith.

So the more contradictions that you find in the bible, the more faith is required to believe in it.

Thus making one a more faithful Christian.

If not i'm sure someone will come up with a more logical explanation,

Well, you are looking for contradictions,aren't you?
Judas was replaced by someone else. I don't think it's Paul, though. Christianity was already established and Paul was a very religious and highly educated fellow zealously bent on crushing it, before his conversion.

Acts and Paul's letters were written before Mattew, Mark,Luke and John wrote their accounts. The disciples followed Christ as young men, and wrote the gospels as old men, from memory. So they can be forgiven a few minor discrepancies. For instance someone related an incident took place as Christ was leaving a place, another related the same incident,saying Christ was on his way to that same place. But these are very very few. In nothing even remotely important do they disagree. I would have been suspicious if all their accounts,written at different times in different places, tallied in EVERY SINGLE MINOR DETAIL. It would have smacked of collusion. As it is, it's even more convincing.

I am not sure whether he's replaced.

But I know one thing, when I ask for Forgiveness of my sins, I use the blood shed by Jesus for me on the cross.

Jesus even stated that those that nailed him were forgiving, the essence of christ coming to this world I believe is forgiveness.

So, the way I see it, for the sins committed either by paul or anyone like damola, my father will forgive me, so he can be on the throne,

The throne is to be seated by twelve men, all of which have committed sin at once time or the other, And remember no sin is greater than the other.

We all live on the grace of my father in heaven.

Matthias took his place.(Acts 1:25-26). I don't see why this is important anyway.

@Bindex,

brother u are one man i truely respect here for your grace of reasoning, but u c the Bible spans beyond the powers of human reasoning thats y even great philosophers before you and like you will continually have problems trying to fathom what men possessed of God's spirit wrote. (1Tim.3:6)

[size=14pt]1 Corinthians 1:23

23 We preach Christ (the Messiah) crucified, [preaching which] to the Jews is a scandal and an offensive stumbling block [that springs a snare or trap], and to the Gentiles it is absurd and utterly unphilosophical nonsense.
AMP[/size]

I have read through your post here and i will pick you word for word and correct you where necessary in the spirit of humility

bindex:

The bible says that Jesus alread knew that Judas Iscariot was going to betray him, but here is the problem.

All 12 disciples are to sit on thrones in heaven judging the twelve tribes of Israel? Including Judas Iscariot, who Jesus already knows will later betray him for 30 pieces of silver and then hang himself?

No.1 : Brother u must realise  that the way God thinks, behaves and acts are not the same of man,

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.
AMP

Deuteronomy 32:39

39 See now that I, I am He, and there is no god beside Me; I kill and I make alive , I wound and I heal, and there is none who can deliver out of My hand.
AMP

again,

1 Samuel 2:6
A The LORD kills and makes alive ; He brings down to Sheol and raises up.
NASU

Brother in my little years of experience in the Holy scriptures i can boldly say that Judas' fate is left known only to God, i just hope you aint trying to ask about heaven or hell, if only you understand the real meaning of heaven (its referred to as the "Real and original intent of God's life for man" ) because to me he was simply an instrument used by God to bring about God's purpose for mankind, afterall have you ever asked why Moses who was banned from entering the promise land for disobedience still got his way to heaven?, to me that is God in play, he choses to do whatever he likes and when he likes

no need questioning Him, because its just futile trying to do so

check this out again,

have you ever asked why Moses who was banned from entering the promise land still got his way to heaven?, to me that is God in play, he choses to do whatever he likes and when he likes

Romans 9:17-23

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth.
18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?

21 Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:

23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
ASV

i will be pleased to let you know that first of all, Jesus wasnt a fool when he chose Judas Iscariot, remember this guys have been predestined to serve the visitation of God in the flesh to mankind ( i mean Jesus)

so to me he has a place in the new life to come, although may be not in the throne as you are trying to assume, because the problem is that you only pick texts randomly and form a base for argument from it, reading to the end of the text in that Acts you quoted you'll discover that "another person was chosen to fill in Judas's place in person of Matthias (Acts.1:21-26)

so when Jesus spoke of the 12 thrones, he still knew that 1 will be replaced for another following prophesies (psalm.69:25,Psalm.109:8)

My dear brother, pls try and realise that we are not in the position to judge who will be condemned or commended (Rom.9:17-23)

bindex:

there are two very contradictory account of his(Judas Iscariot) death in the bible Acts 1:18 gives a very different account of the death of Judas than what is written in Matthew 27:3-10. In Acts, it says he fell headlong into the field he bought with the silver he had been paid for betraying Jesus, and his body exploded, guts flying everywhere. In Matthew we read that he tried to return the silver to the chief priests, then threw the silver down when they refused it, then went and hanged himself, and after all this the chief priests decided to use the silver to buy the field.
Is Judas Iscariot still going to be amongst the 12 disciples that sit on the throne when Jesus is judging the 12 tribes of Israel in heaven after betraying Jesus?

No.2 : you see why i say u jump into immature conclusions?, first, a prophesy was said about this man's death (Judas) by Jeremiah that a field will be bought by the money used in buying the Christ and there the seller will die and the field will be called "place of blood" so go back and search again there was never a place that said Judas bought a field, but that this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity. At least you can agree with me that supposing i send you to pay my school fees, it will still reflect that i have paid my school fees regardless of who paid for me.






i want to sound this to you Bro.Bindex

One thing mysterious about the Holy scriptures is that if you want to find errors the whole scriptures will present itself as a pack of errors, but if you chose to believe in its simplicity and accept God that way, to you it will be that way,

THE BIBLE IS ONE BOOK THAT MAKES FOOLISH MEN WISE AND WISE MEN FOOLISH

THE BIBLE IS ONE BOOK THAT DESTROYS SOME AND RAISES OTHERS

its all a matter of choice, choose where you want to belong

Refer:

1 Corinthians 1:23-25

23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block , and to Gentiles foolishness,

24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
NASB

Jesus knew that Judas will betray him. However Judas was not predestined to betray Jesus. Judas out of his free will succumbed to the temptations of the darkness and became a tool for Lucifer or what many know as satan. Had Judas not succumbed to the darkness, had the entire mankind listed to Jesus and obeyed his words, then Jesus would not have been betrayed or murdered. The murder of Jesus is a consequence of the misuse of the free will by men, a consequence of sin, a consequence of the fall of man. Jesus did not come to die as is often assumed by many but to bring the Truth, to explain to men the will of God, his father. Jesus brought salvation to mankind through his words for Jesus is the word of God made flesh. The knowlege of the will of God which Jesus brought and the accompanying miracles shoke men from their slumber and awaken many to the recognition of God. Lucifer, rebelled against the mission of salvation brought by Jesus and attempted to derail it. He cannot get hold on Jesus himself as the divine purity of Jesus makes a personal attack from darkness impossible. The devil made use of willing tools, among them are the religious leaders of that time and Judas. They succumbed to the temptations of the darkness and set in motion events that culminated in the murder of the son of God. The murder of Jesus is the most heineious crime ever commited by man, since it is a crime directed personally against the son of God. Thus the murder of Jesus is a sin against God personally, it did not atone for any of mankinds sin but burdened mankind with a sacrilegious crime. Judas and all the people who participated in the murder of Jesus either in thought or deed paid and some are still paying for laying their hands on the son of God. Atonement lies in living according to the words of Jesus and not his blood or death.

I dont think he knew.

@m_nwankwo

I've never heard that version of events before. Do you believe he was ressurected after his death?

You say Christ knew Judas was going to betray him, the son of God. At what point would you say he knew? Before he came to the world at all, or when he met Judas? Since he foreknew Judas's intent,and he had a mandate as important as salvation through his words to fulfil,why didn't he avoid Judas's betrayal and his own death? Foreknowledge makes that easy,no?

I've been meaning to ask you: Do you have any ideas on how our thoughts and words and imagination interact with the unseen? You've had the experience of singing in your mind, only to have someone echo the words out loud, haven't you? I've heard of people visualising stuff, only to have the mental images in their minds materialise? What's happening there?

m_nwankwo:

However Judas was not predestined to betray Jesus.

Brother i stand to correct you on that, He was predestined like Pharoah was (Rom.9:17) remember a prophesy went before him (Acts.1:18)

m_nwankwo:

Jesus did not come to die as is often assumed by many but to bring the Truth,

Very Big Heresy there my brother,

what did he mean by saying "Father never the less not my will but your will be done"  and "my hour has come" "this temple will be destroyed and in 3days it will be rebuilt"? i dont want to start quoting all this scriptures, answer me. be careful what you say, it could be idle

m_nwankwo:

Atonement lies in living according to the words of Jesus and not his blood or death.

i dont want to waste time quoting scripture, pls quote yours to back your claim

According to the book of Judas, he knew. Infact he (Jesus) planned it from the start.

@tonye-t

Thanks for your input. Let me address the issues you raised.

Brother i stand to correct you on that, He was predestined like Pharoah was (Rom.9:17) remember a prophesy went before him (Acts.1:18)

I do not believe that Judas or Pharoh or indeed any other person is predestined. What people often refer as predestination is a reciprocal effect arising from their former actions, thoughts, words, intuitions, motives etc. In otherwords predestination arise as a result of the use of free will. However since men cannot counciously follow the origin of the action that gave rise to what they call predestination, they attribute to either God or Satan. If a human being or entire mankind indulges in a particular activity so strongly, it will genereate the reciprocal currents that will influence future activities. Just an earthly analogy. If a person has the urge to smoke and indulges in this sinful appetite for a time, it will reach a point where it becomes an addiction, that is he has lost his free will to quit smoking even if he wants. He who knows the spiritual process as well as the biological process governing addiction can predict that such a man will continue to smoke even when he has decided to quit smoking, that explains why addiction to basal intincts like smoking, gluttony, sexual immorality are difficult to cure.

Prophecies are simply predictions of the consequences of the free will of MAN or revealation of the coming will of God or its manifestation. Even before Jesus came to earth, it was forseen that since humanity has followed the way of sin, that is disobeyed the will of God, they will oppose God. Thus it was forseen that their is a probabilty that Jesus will be murdered since he is like a sheep in the midst of wolves. As Jesus came, men never changed their ways but became even more antagonistic to God and what was a probability that Jesus may be killed  became a certaintity that he will be murdered.

By your argument you seem to suggest that God destined Jesus to die.  That is, that the crucifixtion and death of Jesus is acording to the will of God. If you follow that train of reasoning, then all those who betrayed Jesus and crucified him helped in fufilling the will of God. If they are doing the will of God, then kindly expalin why Jesus asked that they should be forgiven for the know not what they do. Do God forgive people for doing the will of God? It is indded an irony that most believers accept that Judas, the high priests etc commited sin by betraying and crucifying Jesus, yet they accept that blood shed by the sinful activities of Judas, the high priest will bring salvation. Sin or the product of sin is still sin and cannot bring redemption and salvation.

Very Big Heresy there my brother,

what did he mean by saying "Father never the less not my will but your will be done"  and "my hour has come" "this temple will be destroyed and in 3days it will be rebuilt"? i dont want to start quoting all this scriptures, answer me. be careful what you say, it could be idle

Sure, you may consider what I said to be herectical. If it is the will of God that Jesus came to die, why then did Jesus pray that the cup will pass away? Jesus is God the son and he knows exactly the will of his Father and yet he is praying for that will to pass away. I hope you will see the absurdity in that train of thought. Jesus prayed that the cup will pass away because he knew that his death is not the will of God but a consequence of the free will of men. Again an earthly analogy may suffice. If your loved ones are entrapped in a buliding engulfed by fire and you really loved them, you will try to save them even at the cost of your own death. Bystanders who knew how you loved your family predicted that you will enter the fire to save your family inspite of the intensity of the flame. True to their prediction, you came, entered the burning house and rescued your family. In the process you got burnt to death by fire. It is correct to report that your love made you to enter the burning house. It is also correct to report that in saving your family you got fatally burnt by fire but it is wrong to say that you entered the fire to die and that being fatally burnt by fire saved your family.

i dont want to waste time quoting scripture, pls quote yours to back your claim

I do not quote from the bible and if you will not consider what I said because I did not put a biblical reference, then ignore my submission. Stay blessed.

@Mad_Max

Thanks for your input. I address the issues you raised as follows:

I've never heard that version of events before. Do you believe he was ressurected after his death?

Yes I believe that Jesus resurrected after his death and appeared to many including the doubting Thomas. However the resurrection was not in a physical body but a transformed non-physical body. I may expalin that in details if you are interested in examing the process of resurrection.

You say Christ knew Judas was going to betray him, the son of God. At what point would you say he knew? Before he came to the world at all, or when he met Judas? Since he foreknew Judas's intent,and he had a mandate as important as salvation through his words to fulfil,why didn't he avoid Judas's betrayal and his own death? Foreknowledge makes that easy,no?   

Jesus knew of the probabilty that he might be murdered by the people he came to save once God the father made the decison to send his son to save mankind from there sins. Thus Jesus knew of this probablity that he will die even before he was incarnated on earth and that probabilty was also revealed to various messengers or prophets of God, hence the prophecies about his coming and death. As Jesus became conscious that he is the son of God, he could consciously survey the entire will of God and based on his living knowlege he came to the sad realization that men will continue to disobey the will of God, and that even his disciples can still be willing tools in the hand of darkness and such disobedidence will untimately lead to his death and hence his death on the cross became a certaintity to him instead of a high probability. Jesus cannot prevent Judas from betraying him because God does not interfer with the free will of man, the perfection of the laws of God allows man to use his free will but also to taste the consequences of his free will. Judas has several oppurtunites to change his course but he refused since he has given his soul to Lucifer, the enemy of God. Jesus did not avoid death because the main accusation is that he is the Truth, the son of God. To flee or avoid death is equiivalent to denying that he is indeed the son of God. Jesus is the son of God and he cannot deny what he is even at the risk of his own death. It is like you have a son and people are accusing you that you are making a false claim by claiming to be the mother. If you are certain that you are the mother of the child, you can face anything even death to prove that you mean what you say. Jesus stood by his conviction that he is the son of God, the Way, the Truth and the Life.

I've been meaning to ask you: Do you have any ideas on how our thoughts and words and imagination interact with the unseen? You've had the experience of singing in your mind, only to have someone echo the words out loud, haven't you? I've heard of people visualising stuff, only to have the mental images in their minds materialise? What's happening there? 

Yes I do know how thoughts, words, imagination etc interact with unseen enviroments. I have had experiences of seing what people think and picking the thoughts and words of others is also a common occurence. Sure some people can condense their mental images to become materially visible. It is a question of radiations and transformation of radiations to matter and vice versa. I will be willing to offer a detailed expalanation of these processes if you want and you present specific examples since the subject is so vast to discuss in general terms. However these abilities should and must come naturally and should not be acquired through an occult or mystical training. Occult or mystical training is a dangerous to the spiritual development of man. Stay blessed.

tonye-t:

No.2 : you see why i say u jump into immature conclusions?, first, a prophesy was said about this man's death (Judas) by Jeremiah that a field will be bought by the money used in buying the Christ and there the seller will die and the field will be called "place of blood" so go back and search again there was never a place that said Judas bought a field, but that this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity. At least you can agree with me that supposing i send you to pay my school fees, it will still reflect that i have paid my school fees regardless of who paid for me.

This caught my attension. can you post you post the chapter in jeremiah and lets look at it? the chapter has nothing to do with judas at all. put it up if you can and lets look at it together.

No.2 : you see why i say u jump into immature conclusions?, first, a[b] prophesy was said about this man's death (Judas) by Jeremiah that a field will be bought by the money used in buying the Christ and there the seller will die and the field will be called "place of blood"[/b] so go back and search again there was never a place that said Judas bought a field, but that this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity.

I will be very much interested in the full prophecy and see if it has anything to do with Judas. I go lie here dey wait the sharing of it.

Matthias replaced Judas Iscariot . . . that is boldly proclaimed in the book of acts.

Thats what the Bible said

m_nwankwo:

@Mad_Max

Thanks for your input. I address the issues you raised as follows:
Yes I believe that Jesus resurrected after his death and appeared to many including the doubting Thomas. However the resurrection was not in a physical body but a transformed non-physical body. I may expalin that in details if you are interested in examing the process of resurrection.

Jesus knew of the probabilty that he might be murdered by the people he came to save once God the father made the decison to send his son to save mankind from there sins. Thus Jesus knew of this probablity that he will die even before he was incarnated on earth and that probabilty was also revealed to various messengers or prophets of God, hence the prophecies about his coming and death. As Jesus became conscious that he is the son of God, he could consciously survey the entire will of God and based on his living knowlege he came to the sad realization that men will continue to disobey the will of God, and that even his disciples can still be willing tools in the hand of darkness and such disobedidence will untimately lead to his death and hence his death on the cross became a certaintity to him instead of a high probability. Jesus cannot prevent Judas from betraying him because God does not interfer with the free will of man, the perfection of the laws of God allows man to use his free will but also to taste the consequences of his free will. Judas has several oppurtunites to change his course but he refused since he has given his soul to Lucifer, the enemy of God. Jesus did not avoid death because the main accusation is that he is the Truth, the son of God. To flee or avoid death is equiivalent to denying that he is indeed the son of God. Jesus is the son of God and he cannot deny what he is even at the risk of his own death. It is like you have a son and people are accusing you that you are making a false claim by claiming to be the mother. If you are certain that you are the mother of the child, you can face anything even death to prove that you mean what you say. Jesus stood by his conviction that he is the son of God, the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Yes I do know how thoughts, words, imagination etc interact with unseen enviroments. I have had experiences of seing what people think and picking the thoughts and words of others is also a common occurence. Sure some people can condense their mental images to become materially visible. It is a question of radiations and transformation of radiations to matter and vice versa. I will be willing to offer a detailed expalanation of these processes if you want and you present specific examples since the subject is so vast to discuss in general terms. However these abilities should and must come naturally and should not be acquired through an occult or mystical training. Occult or mystical training is a dangerous to the spiritual development of man. Stay blessed.

Jesus Christ Resurrected in the same body that he was killed in. Please dont even attempt to explain further. It would have (in my opinion) been self defeating, if he had risen in another body. Remember what He said, "Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." (John 10:17)

Ndipe:

Jesus Christ Resurrected in the same body that he was killed in. Please dont even attempt to explain further. It would have (in my opinion) been self defeating, if he had risen in another body. Remember what He said, "Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." (John 10:17)

No, Jesus did not ressurrect in the same body he was killed. The further explanation is not for you. I clearly stated that if Mad_Max want further explanation on the issue of ressurection, I will oblige. If she does not want it, I will not give further expanantion. The choice is left to Mad_Max. There is nothing self deafeating in my assertion that Jesus resurrected in another body. I could well expalin what is meant by your biblical citation but their is no point in doing so. Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to many for one reason, to give them tangible evidence that the spirit continues to live after the death of the physical body. Thus phsical death is not the ceasation of life but a transition to life. Stay blessed.

Why do we keep arguing about things that do not matter?

Mr Nwankwo, I think I get what you're saying here. That Christ came to preach to men, but knew he might die,since men have free will, with which God does not interfere. But why would God send Christ on a mission men can fulfil, and have been fulfilling for ages? Israel listens to its prophets and takes their words very seriously.In old testament times, a prophet had to be right: he gets it wrong, he pays with his life. The Jews were more than willing to accept Christ as a mighty  prophet. God sending a man and equipping him to spread his word would've accomplished[i] that [/i] purpose better and faster, wouldn't it? Why would he send Christ, an eternal spirit who enjoys a unique relationship with him, who was there when God said 'Let us make man,' to the world merely to preach God's word? And he sends him as a man too, with nothing that distinguishes from other men so that they would immediately know He is Christ?To all intents and purposes, he is a man, nothing more? Why would He send Christ,unless it was to accomplish something only he can?

You know, your arguments are very interesting. Free will and predestination: they contradict each other, don't they?Every entity in existence has free will. Even spirits are individuals, they can reason and make choices,they have personalities and varying degrees of power and influence, just like people on earth.

So Satan, the artist formerly known as Lucifer,made Judas betray Jesus, and Christ is killed at an appointed time.
But that seemed to be the point.
How do you send your son to take the sin of humanity upon himself,fully realising that men have free will, and that Satan rules amongst men and may use them to thwart that purpose?

Have you noticed how Satan doesn't appear to know for sure that Christ is the Son of God while he was a man? See Luke 4 and Mattew 4. Notice how there is absolutely nothing in Christ's physical appearance that gives him away?Christ merely says he is the son of God, not to Satan but to other men? Have you noticed how every single unclean spirit Christ attacks immediately know who he is the moment he engages them,as if, when they encounter his power, they recognise it?  But notice that in no way does Christ engage Satan?Christ did not once use his power against Satan himself, or engage him in any way,but allowed him to say what he liked, he merely responding? Perhaps because if he did something directly to Satan, the same power-signature those unclean spirits recognised when they personally encountered it would immediately become apparent? There is a place where unclean spirits were proclaiming his identity and he tells them to be silent,because they'd recognised him.  

It seems the real identity of Christ and his purpose on earth was hidden from Satan.
He was never sure, and when he asks Christ to confirm his identity,Christ doesn't,but sidetracks him. Satan knows the Son of God, the eternal spirit entity. Christ was there when Lucifer served God, and witnessed his rebellion. They knew each other. But Satan was looking at a man now, and had no way of knowing if it was the same spirit entity,in the flesh.Notice how Satan shows him all the glories of this world if Christ, whom he saw as a man who may influence many for God,his enemy, would serve him? Would the glories of the world tempt the son of God,who knew far greater glories? He had no idea who Christ really was, much less what he was on earth to do. But he'd heard he was the son of God,sought confirmation and gotten none.(Luke 4:2-13)

What did Satan do? Satan's purpose is to take as many men as he could down with him. He wasn't sure if Christ was actually the Son of God but whatever he was there to do would not be to his advantage. This servant of God was so powerful Satan himself came to tempt him. Since he could not be bribed with the world's goods, he used Judas and had him killed. But by that Satan himself helped God to fulfil what Christ had come to do: purchasing redemption and a direct route to God for every man who would take it. That he die was the endgame. Satan was outplayed there.

Death (bloodshed) seems to be some sort of valid spiritual currency,and so weighty and priceless is his death (blood) that it bought access to God and the right to be with God after death,for every man who would take it.Because of free will,it has to be a choice.

You know, Roman soldiers were the fiercest,the best,the most intensely trained and most disciplined soldiers in the world. They had mock battles every single day. 365 mock battles in a year. When Roman soldiers scourged a man,it was a truly horrific spectacle. I think the human being in Christ quaked at the prospect of the agony to come, and asked that that cup and that hour pass from him. But he says not his will but God's be done.

Oh yes. I'm interested to know more about how mental activity interacts with the unseen and is made manifest. I'm really fascinated by that.

@Mad_Max,

Thanks for your well reasoned submission. It is always a pleasure reading your inputs. I address the  issues you raised as follows

Mr Nwankwo, I think I get what you're saying here. That Christ came to preach to men, but knew he might die,since men have free will, with which God does not interfere. But why would God send Christ on a mission men can fulfil, and have been fulfilling for ages? Israel listens to its prophets and take their words very seriously.In old testament times, a prophet had to be right: he gets it wrong, he pays with his life. The Jews were more than willing to accept Christ as a mighty  prophet. God sending a man and equipping him to spread his word would've accomplished that purpose better and faster, wouldn't it? Why would he send Christ, an eternal spirit who enjoys a unique relationship with him, who was there when God said 'Let us make man,' to the world merely to preach God's word? And he sends him as a man too, with nothing that distinguishes from other men so that they would immediately know He is Christ?To all intents and purposes, he is a man, nothing more? Why would He send Christ,unless it was to accomplish something only he can?

No man, angel, archangel indeed any creature of God can do what Jesus the son of God did. Jesus is not a prophet but a "part" of God, the father. Prophets and messengers of God like Moses, Isiah, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Laotse etc can bring to men the recognitions, that is what God reveals to them but they cannot bring the living word of God since only God can bring his living word. The power of the various prophets and recognitions were not enogh to disperse the "spiritual" darkness which resulted from the disobedience to the will of God. The darkness resulted in humankind succumbing to the promptings of the tempter, Lucifer. Literally speaking, the path for humanity back to God was blocked. Lucifer taught himself victorious until God intervened to bring salvation and redemption to the very few who long for it. Here and there and amid the darkness few human beings cried for God for help. The prophets or messengers of God are creatures and even with the highest guidance from God cannot penatrate the darkness. Humankind was in danger of spiritual death. Out of Love for the very few who are still struggling to find God, God sent his inborn son, the living love of God and incarnated him on earth in male sex. It is a process of radiation which is beyound the scope of what we are discussing. Therefore literally speaking a "part" of God was on earth and he is Jesus Christ. Being a part of God, Jesus brought the power and the living word of God into creation including the earth. He can transmit this divine power and word as he is God the son. It is this divine word clothed in earthly language that shatters the evil and darkness surronding men who wish to seve God and his divine power dispersed the darkness enveloping the various spheres in which human souls live like a hot knife through butter, thus the way to God for humanity was open once more. God is Light and it is only Light that can bring Light amist the darkness. Prophets or messengers of God are not the Light or came directly from the Light but a precipitation out of the radiations of the Light, that is preciptation out of the power of God. Hence no man on creature no matter how blessed can do what Jesus did and continue to do. That is why the name Jesus Christ (because it is a part of God the Father) carries such magnetic radiance and power that wherever such name is uttered in purity and out of deep conviction, what men call miracle occure. If God wishes to enter creation, and the earth, God has to incarnate in a physical body. The physical body is just a cloack or an istrument used to experience earthly matter. Thus there is no difference between the body of Jesus and that of men. The difference lies in what gives life to the physical body, in case of men it is the spirit, a creature of God and incase of Jesus, its is God-the creator.

You know, your arguments are fascinating. Free will and predestination: they contradict each other, don't they?Every entity in existence has free will. Even spirits are individuals, they can reason and make choices,they have personalities and varying degrees of power and influence, just like people on earth.

No, free will and predestination does not contradict each other if understood correcly. Predestination is the manifestation of reciprocal actions as a result of previous decisions of the spirit. It is simply harvest of seeds previously sown. The only problem is that many believe that they have been on earth only once. My own experince is that each one of us has been on earth as human beings severa times. Many penticostals trying to discredict the catholic church today were once catholic monks and helped in extablishing the catholic faith. If the veil into once existence is lifted, one can only smile at the present disputes among religions. The same goes for a lot of things which people fight over. Some of what we experience in this life and called predestination are reciprocal actions coming from our previous existence on earth and our experiences in unseen non earthly enviroment. People call it predestination because they cannot trace the origin of what they are experiencing. If however they genuinely asks God for help, a veil will be lifted permiting the eyes of the soul or spirit to look at once entire existence. Then it will be clear that we reap what we sowed or accepted to reap what others sowed in other to mature in a particular way or accomplish a particular mission, that is what ever happens to us is a consequence of our free decision.

No, it is not every creature that have free will. Beings like archangels who are closer to the proximity of God have no free will of their own, they swing absolutely in the will of God and that is one of the reasons why their spiritual or divine bodies have pinions or wings. Lucifer originally has no will of his own for he came into existence close to the proximity of God. It was when he was sent into material creation to help in the development of young human spirts that he developed a will of his own and became a spirit. The world of matter is very far from God and thus its possible for ego-consciousness to arise.

How do you send your son to take the sin of humanity upon himself,fully realising that men have free will, and that Satan rules amongst men and may use them to thwart that purpose?

I have given expalanation to that above. The mission of Jesus is to open a path to God the Father and Jesus accomplished that mission. Without the incarnation of Jesus (and this may sound bizzare and fiction to some people) the earth and its unseen enviroment would have suffered premature disintegration and the human beings trapped in these planes would have suffered spiritual death. Had Jesus not come, we would have ceased to exist. True, many rejected his words but the life belt which is his words is there for men to cling and katapult themselves back to the kingdom of God.the father. Thus Jesus offered the life belt through his words and to take or reject the lifebelt is dependent on the free decision of men. Besides Jesus was not sent to take the sins of humanity but to offer men a life belt, a spiritual detergent with which men can wash their sins away. The life belt or detergent is the words of Jesus Christ

Have you noticed how Satan doesn't appear to know for sure that Christ is the Son of God while he was a man? See Luke 4 and Mattew 4. Notice how there is absoultely nothing in Christ's physical appearance that gives him away?Christ merely says he is the son of God, and not to Satan but to other men? Have you noticed how every single unclean spirit Christ attacks immediately know who he is the moment he engages them,as if, when they encounter his power, they recognise it?  But notice that in no way does Christ engage Satan?Christ did not once use his power against Satan himself, or engage him in any way,but allowed him to say what he liked, he merely responding? Perhaps because if he did something directly to Satan, the same power-signature those unclean spirits recognised when they personally encountered it would immediately become apparent? There is a place where unclean spirits were proclaiming his identity and he tells to be silent,because they'd recognised him.

Satan knew fully well that Jesus is the son of God even before Jesus was incarnated on earth. Satan has been plotting even before the birth of Jesus to derail the mission. The temptation in the wilderness is one  the efforts satan made to undermine Jesus mission even before it started. Lucifer knew the laws of God and he suggested to Jesus to do things which are impossible according to the laws of God. Thus by suggesting to Jesus to turn stones into bread, satan is trying to induce Jesus to do the impossible and if Jesus has succumbed to the temptation he will emerge from the wilderness and try to convert stones into bread. That will not happen and that will severly undermine the assertion that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus however carries all the living laws of God and he knew that satan was trying to tempt him and undermine his work of slavation. Jesus rejected the temptation. Actually, Lucifer got the name anti-christ because of his desparate mission to thwart the work of redemption brought by Christ. The unclean sprits stuff will require a more detailed explanation on possession and how possed people can be cured. Let me for the moment leave it out of my expalanations.

What did Satan do? Satan's purpose is to take as many men as he could down with him. He wasn't sure if Christ was actually the Son of God but whatever he was there to do would not be to his advantage. This servant of God was so powerful Satan himself came to tempt him. Since he could not be bribed with the world's goods, he used Judas and had him killed. But by that Satan himself helped God to fulfil what Christ had come to do: purchasing redemption and a direct route to God for every man who would take it. That he die was the endgame. Satan was outplayed there.

Your argument seems to suggest that a good fruit can arise from an evil tree. You accept that what Judas did was evil and yet you argue that a consequence of this evil, that is the death of Jesus is salvation. Evil cannot produce good nor will God use evil or the origin of evil principle (satan) to fufill his will. What an irony that the enemy of God is unknownly helping God to fufill his will. I hope God and satan are not playing a chess game. Following your train of reasoning, God sent his son to be murderd by men so that his blood should be used to purchase their salvationand yet the same God condemmed those who killed his son. Is it not an irony that God will be condeming people who helped in fufilling his will. Not even any of the present believers will name their child Judas and yet the glorify the consequence of the actions of Judas and his acomplices. Besides is God a blood sucking vampire that requires the blood of his own son? It is only evil that requires blood sacrifice, not God and to associate God with using blood and murder of his son as a way to redeem mankind is a debasement of the Godhead. Murder and shedding of human blood resulting from it is a heinious sin under any circumstance. Why will there be exception in the case of the blood of Jesus?

Death (bloodshed) seems to be some sort of valid spiritual currency,and so weighty and priceless is his death (blood) that it bought access to God and the right to be with God after death,for every man who would take it.Because of free will,it has to be a choice

Do you really believe that bloodshed is a "sort of valid spiritual currency"? Murder is murder and those who engage in those activities are sining against the laws of God. The assertion that Christ came to shed his blood is a lame excuse by mankind to try to justify a heinious crime. How can blood shed by murder bring redemption? The death of Christ atoned for non of our sins but burdened us with a grevious murder. Sadly the emphasis on murder and shedding of blood obscure the real redemtion which is obeidence to the words of Jesus. If God can demand the blood of his son for the salvation of his creatures, then that is not the God who is the father of Jesus. Then why do the same God condem murderers and ritualists that sheds human blood?  It is evil entities, evil human beings, demons, evil spirits that deal with blood acrifice and murder, not God-the almighty creator.

You know, Roman soldiers were the fiercest,the best,the most intensely trained and most disciplined soldiers in the world. They had mock battles every single day. 365 mock battles in a year. When Roman soldiers scourged a man,it was a truly horrific spectacle. I think the human being in Christ quaked at the prospect of the agony to come, and asked that that cup and that hour pass from him. But he says not his will but God's be done.

Their is no human being in Jesus Christ. The physical body is not what makes people human but the spirit and christ is not spirit but God. Yes his body felt the agony like any physical body will do but that was not why he prayed. He prayed because he knew that the consipiracy, the betrayal, the murder are a consequence of the free will of men. Jesus is one with God the Father and their is never a second in which that connection was severed. Thus Jesus for all times knew the will of God the Father, Jesus will is one with his  Fathers will and cannot be separated from it. The coming death weighed heavily on the physical body of Jesus. Jesus went into prayer, to recieve strength from God the father so that his physical body will pass through this macabre drama unperturbed. Although Jesus is one with God the Father, God the father is greater than Jesus. One can say that Jesus Christ is a "small part" of God the Father that became personal.

Oh yes. I'm interested to know more about how mental activity interacts with the unseen and is made manifest. I'm really fascinated by that

Give specific examples from your experience or that of other people  and I will offer an explanation behind the incidence. Once again stay blessed

Oh my
I know taking another person’s life is murder. I was making reference to the old testament practice of priests sacrificing animals to atone for the sins of the nation of Israel, once a year. The Old Testament is full of such practices, men bringing offerings to God, and these sacrifices[i] were[/i] accepted. So blood is some sort of spiritual currency. I should say was, since Christ's death on the cross has put an end to stuff like that.

You do realise we're both assuming a lot here? We don't know the mind of God, what his intentions were,what he was planning or thinking; but we may infer, we may theorise. Perhaps Satan knew who Jesus was, Perhaps he didn't .John 1 says The Light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.

If Christ's death was merely Satan killing God when he felt like it, what is the process of salvation,today, in practical terms? How does Christ save men?  

Predestination is the sum of a man's choices?Are those choices predetermined? By whom? God? Me in another life? If my choices are predetermined, they're no longer choices, are they? I would merely be a robot-type thing with the illusion of choice, but no real free will. I think you use the word in the sense of Your Present Circumstances Are The Result of All The Choices You Have Made Before, which is sort of self-evident. I meant it in the God Has Determined What You Will Be Before You Were Conceived Sense. The God Has Determined Who Will Be Saved and Who Will Not sense.

Reincarnation? You believe in reincarnation? So every human being on earth has walked this earth before? And God determined that it be so? So the Bible declaring a man dies only once and then faces judgement,has it wrong? Do you believe the Bible? What do you think of it, the Bible?

If I've been alive before, why don't I know it? It's my spirit that is being recycled, not my flesh, so I shouldn't suffer spirit amnesia,should I? So when a man dies now, he is reborn, and again has the opportunity to enjoy Christ's salvation? A sort of Christanity meets Buddhism?         

I'm looking at The Jerome Conspiracy with some interest. I could never resist a conspiracy, and this one says it has new evidence on the Hell doctrine. I get that human beings may choose God or not. We don't know exactly how God is going to judge human beings, though we think we do. Good to this side,Bad to that side. But that makes individual judgement superflous,doesn't it?Perhaps each case will be weighed on its own merits. But that we will account for our choices and actions is almost a certainty. Eternal torment just seems to be a case of the punishment exceeding the crime. For Satan, it sounds about right. For human beings,no. I know[i] you[/i] think hell is a state of mind.  

Thought- and-spoken word-interaction with the unseen. Doesn't one process or explanation serve all such experiences? I'm curious as to how you would explain the phenomena.

Hi again Mad_Max

Oh my
I know taking another person’s life is murder. I was referring to the Jewish practice of priests sacrificing animals to atone for the sins of the nation of Israel, once a year. The Old Testament is full of such practices, men bringing offerings to God, and these sacrifices were accepted. So blood is some sort of spiritual currency. I should say was, since Christ's death on the cross has put an end to such things.

I am pleased that you are aware that taking another persons life is murder. Why then will an exception be made with the murder of Jesus? Sacrificing of animals to what people claim to be god is present in all cultures, not just among the jewish people. Animal and human sacrifice is sign of lack of recognition of the almighty God. God neither desires the blood of animals nor humans. Obedience to Gods laws is the path to the recognition of God. At some point I may explain the mystery of blood and why it is evil to sacrifice humans or animals to God.

You do realise we're both assuming a lot here? We don't know the mind of God, what his intentions were at a particular time,what he was planning or thinking; but we may infer, we may theorise. Perhaps Satan knew who Jesus was, Perhaps he didn't .John 1 says The Light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.

God created us to know him and the ways of God are very clear. I do not accept that the will of God is a mystery. It is clear and it is meant to be recognised.   Prophets and finally the son of God has taught us the will or the ways of God. Besides, hardwired in the spirit of each human being is a faculty for the recognition of God. It does not take much for a normal person to sense attributes of God which include justice, love, perfection, omniscience, holiness etc. From my own experience I am certain that satan knew who Jesus is. Yes, John is correct in saying that Light shineth in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not.

If Christ's death was merely Satan killing God when he felt like it, how are men saved today?How does Christ save men today,what is the process of salvation, in practical terms? 

I wonder where you got the idea expressed above. It is certainly not from my submissions. How can God be killed? Satan tempted Judas and the priests to conspire and murder the physical body of Jesus and Judas and the priests succumbed to the temptation out of their free will. Thus what was murdered is the physical body of Jesus and not God that animated the physical body. Christ gave men the message of God which he summed up in "Love God with all your heart and soul and love your neighbour as yourselves. If men choose to obey this commandment, they will recieve the power from Jesus that will enable them to overcome sin and come to the recognition of the knowledge of the entire laws of God in creation. Thus salvation is simple, follow the supreme commandment that Jesus gave and your genuine desire to live according to this commandment will link you to Jesus. The connection with Jesus will open your spirit to the power of the holyspirit and reception of the power of the holy spirit will renew ones spirit and give it the knowlege, the power and the recognitions required to live only according to the will of God. Such a person becomes a new creature, he is born again. At the fullness of time such a purified spirit will find his or her way back to the kingdom of God. Thus salvation lies in recognising the words of Jesus and living accordinly.

Predestination is the sum of a man's choices?Are those choices predetermined? By whom? God? Me in another life? If my choices are predetermined, they're no longer choices, are they? I would merely be a robot-type thing with the illusion of choice, but no real free will. I think you use the word in the sense of You Present Circumstances Are The Result of All The Choices You Have Made Before, which is sort of self-evident. I meant it in the God Has Determined What You Will Be Before You Were Conceived Sense. The God Has Determined Who Will Be Saved and Who Will Not sense.

I said that what people call predestination is actually consequences of their decisions, their free choices. The choice is free but the consequences of our choices are irrevocable. Thus you are free to put or not put your hands on fire but once you decide to put it on fire you cannot prevent being burnt. Man makes the choices and the choices are not predetermined by God. Man is free to go into any direction he wants, but he is bound to what lies on the path he has choosen. God did not decide for us any way. He gave us free will and how we exerise our free will will either result in the torment of hell or the bliss of heaven. Even your parents, the nature of your genes, the country you will be born and all the circumstances of once life is a consequence of ones decisions. Every decision you have made, is making and will make form your fate. You can change your fate by changing the nature of your decisions. That is why their can be no forgiveness without repentence. The genuine desire to repent is an indispensible condition for the forgiveness of sins. The problem is that most people can not look back into their entire existence and judge simply by their present life on earth. Thus God has not determined those who will be saved or condmened. Those who live according to the will of God will be saved and those who oppose it will die (spiritual death).

Reincarnation? You believe in reincarnation? So every human being on this earth has been walked this earth before?If I've been alive before, why don't I know it? It's my spirit that is being recycled, not my flesh, so I shouldn't suffer spirit amnesia,should I?

Yes I believe in reincarnation. Not just a believe for I have had thousands of experiences of my former earth lives. It is one of the reasons that made me question organised religion from my teenage years. You are correct that it is the spirit that reincarnates but you are also correct that most people cannot recall their former earthlives. However it is impossible for the spirit to lose memory of its experiences, rather it is that the spirit for several reasons cannot transmit these memories to the human brain. All their experiences are stored in their spirit but the path to tap into such a knowlege is blocked in most people. The reason is that the bridges through which the spirit exerts its volition on the human brain is destroyed or ineffective in most people. Thus since these spirtual information can not filter to the human brain, many are not conscious of it in day counsciousness. In some people a spiritual bandage is placed before the faculties of the spirit until such a time that the knowlege from past life will be of spiritual benefit to them. However even if they have no recall of such existence, they should look clearly at their personality traits and they will gradually become aware that some of them cannot be accounted for by their present existence. Stay blessed.

Hi again Mad_Max

I have finished replying to your last post before I saw you added the question of hell.

I'm looking at The Jerome Conspiracy with some interest.   I could never resist a conspiracy, and this one says it has new evidence on the Hell doctrine. I get that human beings may choose God or not. We don't know exactly how God is going to judge human beings, though we think we do. Good to this side,Bad to that side. But that makes individual judgement superflous,doesn't it?Perhaps each case will be weighed on its own merits. But that we will account for our choices and actions is almost a certainty. Eternal torment just seems to be a case of the punishment exceeding the crime. For Satan, it sounds about right. For human beings,no. I know you think hell is a state of mind.

I have posted submissions on hell in this forum. Do a search using my user name and you will find my detailed view on hell. Thus there is no point repeating them. No, I do not think that hell is a state of mind. Hell is real and tangible. It holds many  departed human spirits and they are experiencing the very evils the served their fellow human beings a million fold.  However hell is not eternal for it is the work of man and not a divine institution. Hell came into existence as a result of the misapplication of the neutral power of God by man. The evil volitions of men took on form and became hell. A description of the horrors in these dark regions will be regarded as flight of fancy or fiction. Thus there is no point in reproducing real life description of what happens in hell. Souls remain in hell as long as they are still following their evil passions. It is however possible to still repent in hell although it is very much more difficult than on earth. Some few souls manage to repent in hell. Thus their is unbelievable torment in hell but the torment of the souls are not eternal except the souls refuse to repent. In this later case they remain trapped in hell until t hell comes into the judjement of God and is disintegrated and human souls trapped in hell will also be dinintegrated, that is they cease to exist, that is effacement from the book of life.

Thought- and-spoken word-interaction with the unseen.  Doesn't one process or explanation serve all such experiences? I'm curious as to how you would explain the phenomena.

Their are billions of variations in these things and that is why a general explanation will not suffice. However since you have not given me any specific example, let me give some general comments. The radiations or energies which our brain under the uncounscious promptings of the spirit use to form words, thoughts and imagination come from these so called unseen worlds. As tangible as the earth is, the worlds of words, thoughts, imagination  are also tangible. The energies in these unseen worlds are without form. The activities of our brain mould these formeless energies into forms which we call words, thoughts and imagination. Thus if two people are absorbing from  from these unseen worlds, it is possible that they are tuned to each other because they are absorbing/and transmitting from these worlds at the same energy frequencies. Thus such people are like satellite decoders in different countries tunes to CNN frequency. They will all recieve CNN irrespective of distance, race, sex etc for they are tapping from the same broadcast. Thus thay can sense each others thoughts, words and imagination without prior knowlege. Watch two people who are truely in love and you will soon notice that before the husband utters an idea, the wife give voice to what he is thinking. This is a very common occurnce that people can observe in their families. The reception and transmission of these energies also follows the law of attraction of similar species. That means that what you sent out to the unseen worl comes back to you a million times more than it was when it originally came from you. If it is pure, it can become so powerful that it draws energies from higher spheres of the unseen world and you recieve an inspiration, an idea to an unsolved problem, a scientific breakthrough, or in some cases a spiritaul experience. Imagination are mental pictures induced by thoughts. The pictures of the spirit is however not imagination and it is much more powerful. I may speak about it someday.

Reincarnation? You believe in reincarnation? So every human being on earth has walked this earth before? And God determined that it be so? So the Bible declaring a man dies only once and then faces judgement,has it wrong? Do you believe the Bible? What do you think of it, the Bible?

If I've been alive before, why don't I know it? It's my spirit that is being recycled, not my flesh, so I shouldn't suffer spirit amnesia,should I? So when a man dies now, he is reborn, and again has the opportunity to enjoy Christ's salvation? A sort of Christanity meets Buddhism?         

If biblical quotation is interpreted literally to mean the death of the physical body, then it is wrong. You can find the evidence with the people Jesus raised from the dead. Lazurus for instance was raised by Jesus and their is no evidence that Lazurus is still alive on earth today. Thus he must have died again, that is a second time. Beides their are many incidence of people who have been pronounced clinically dead and they come back to life , live for some more years and died again. Reincarnation however means the incarnation of the human spirit into a new human body after the death of the previous earthly body. A calling back of a person that is dead into his body and subsequent reanimation of the same body is not reincarnation but raising from the dead. Thus what happened with Lazurus is not reincarnation but raising of the dead. It is within the laws of God for a dead person to be raised provided that the body has not decayed and the silver chord which connects the soul to the body has not snapped.

I do not believe that everything in the bible is the word of God.  That means that some of the things in it are an accurate reproduction of the word of God while others are the words of men. It is left for each human being to pick out the grains of rice  from a bag continining both rice and sand. Not just the bible, it is a similar story with other sacred texts of other religions. However a genuine seeker can very easily separate what is the word of God from the opinions of men in these sacred texts.

Every human being has atleast in one of his earthlives  listened directly from a messenger of God like Moses, Budhha, Krishna, Mohammed, Laotse, Lorber, etc and in some cases directly from the mouth of the son of God Jesus. The knowlege slumbers in the spirit and all that is needed to bring such knowlege to life is to awaken the spirit. Reincarnation is a grace of the love and justice of God. Without reincarnation, it is impossible to come to a full recognition of the laws of God and how it operates in both the visible and invisible worlds. And you cannot obey the entire laws of God when you have not recognised them. Many on earth today were in one of their incarnation 2000 years ago listened directly from Jesus. Thus every human being has atleast once had the oppurtunity to hear directly the undiluted expanantion ablout the will of God or the word of God. Thus there is no excuse for any human being not to recognise the will of God. I got to stop here for now. Stay blessed

No surprise, I enjoyed your answer to the thought-action manifestation thingie.Thank you.
Oh. I just found there is a relationship between sin,blood,death and sacrifice. The book of Leviticus is full of it. As is Hebrews.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."[e] 21In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people,

Christ was sacrificed, his death was on purpose, and it was a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. It did purchase mankind's redemption.

No surprise, I enjoyed your answer to the thought-action manifestation thingie.Thank you.

You are welcome.

I just found there is a relationship between sin,blood,death and sacrifice. The book of Leviticus is full of it. As is Hebrews.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."[e] 21In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people,

Christ was sacrificed, his death was on purpose, and it was a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. It did purchase mankind's redemption

I think I have given enough reasons why sacrifice of animal, human or even the blood of the physical body of the son of God is evil. I have also given reasons why the crucifixtion of Jesus is a crime commited against God and why the death of Jesus did not bring redemption. But then people are free to believe whatever the wish to. Stay blessed.

I have to thank you for your time,you know? You've been terribly patient.
I have a few more questions, mostly about the cosmos and stuff,but for now I think I'll give you a breather. Have a pleasant weekend.

Mad_Max:

I have to thank you for your time,you know? You've been terribly patient.
I have a few more questions, mostly about the cosmos and stuff,but for now I think I'll give you a breather. Have a pleasant weekend.

I have no choice than to be patient. As a scientist and teacher, students and biological research have taught me to be patient. Without patience you cannot be a good scientist not a good teacher . Always feel free to raise any question and I will gladly offer my perceptions. Have a blessed weekend!

You mentioned that the universe is proof that God exists. Would you elaborate on that? As an aside,what do you think of the UFO sighting/alien abduction phenomena?

Seems we have some Atheists in the room. well, everyone is entitled to his belief.

I belief that Jesus Christ knew everything about Judas. If there was no one to betray Our Lord Jesus, He wouldnt have been killed on the cross.
Christ came to die> That was the reason for His coming. To redeem us with the Precious Blood.
Judas was an instrument to our salvation.