Hahahahahaha shu up! I am not an atheist. I am a religion reject before I'm an atheist

jayriginal:


You are an atheist then.

I appreciate that you do not also believe that there is no God but that is not included in the definition of atheism. I ironically (I should think), because atheism has such a narrow description, a lot of different people fall under its umbrella. There is no unification save the fact of disbelief in God.



Very eloquently put (pardon my slight editing). You are an atheist.

plaetton:


Let me correct you again, Atheism has very little to do with Darwinism, and certainly did not originate with Darwinism. Darwin was not an atheist and only came up with his theory of biological evolution 150yrs ago.

Throughout antiquity, there have always been people who did not believe in the existence of gods.
Even the biblical chroniclers recognized the existence of atheists when it referred to them as fools.

In a our modern democratic traditions, every group of individuals who have a common interest are encouraged to and gather and form associations for the purpose of getting their voice heard and their interests safeguarded.

Therefore, there should be nothing extraordinary about atheists gathering together to protect their right to freedom from religion.

Hey boss, you missing my point here.
Here is a scope of religion: as a social institution, religion is a pattern of social action organized around the beliefs and practices that people develop to answer questions about the meaning of existence.

To most atheists, the meaning of existence lies in darwinism which makes their point of view different from the creation view

FOLYKAZE:


But you acknowledge religion is centred on faith in God while many religion in the world today does not necessarity have it centre on faith in a particular God.

Sure, like hockey and my devotion to oxygen right?

It counters your position that your devotion to chess game or guiter playing is not a religion. Well rightly, knowing this doesnt stop this devotion from been a form of religion.

FOLYKAZE you are quite welcome to call my hobbies a religion. By that standard, atheism will have to be a religion. Education will have to be a religion as well. That standard qualifies well nigh everything (even posting on nairaland) as a religion and it is starkly ridiculous!

If I define a car as anything that has wheels on it and if I insist on that definition, then wheelbarrows and bicycles automatically become cars.

This is darwinism http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism

Thanks

1. Deism is a natural religion. Pls note that.

Care to explain further?

2. You actually cannot show me how atheism is exceptional from the everything which my provided definition covers.

But I told you that atheism is not an interest or a devotion or belief or activity. That alone takes atheism outside your third definition. My guitar and chess activities fall within that definition but not atheism.

Chiam55:
Lol. I hope not because if I'm honest I'm closer to religion than an atheist. I feel like the black sheep kicked out of the religion camp because I refuse to digest some of the theories (especially the Them and Us mentality) But I do believe in a higher being. I love my higher being. I say MY higher being because it is a personal connection. I don't need to be part of a group or community I love my private affair with my higher being.

Chiam55:

Hahahahahaha shu up! I am not an atheist. I am a religion reject before I'm an atheist

Perhaps you are a deist then and what you meant to say was that you do not believe in a God as proclaimed by organized religion. Is this right?

DeepSight drag yourself here.

FOLYKAZE:


1. Religion is a universal practises that take many forms. Even among the christians, some are trinitarian while others are not. Some wear uniform while others do not. This does not makes it non-religious by citing like of individual atheists.

2. Every religious move either done consciously or not does not stop the act from been religious. A phenomenon is what it is until after it attracts some form of devotion. At this point, it becomes a religion.
3. I didnt say atheism brought about darwinism, my point was according to the definition given, religion develop existentialism. Atheism does not develop but propel darwinism. So this makes it a religion.

4. You defined atheism as a state of mind; forgetting that religion is a state of mind too. This your words most importantly confirmed that atheism is a religion.

C'mon man, you can do better than this.

1. Atheism is not a practice, and does involve any forms of practice. Ok?

2. Atheism is not a phenomenon, and does not attract any form devotion ( do you know the meaning of devotion?). Ok?

3. I have no idea what you mean by "atheism propel Darwinism" Atheism have nothing to with Darwinism. Atheism does no propel anything.
Atheists, generally speaking, are usually people who seek rational answers to existential questions.
In other words my friend, atheism doesn't lead people to be curious and rational. No sir.

It is natural curiosity , natural, healthy skepticism and rational thinking that leads one to question the many myths of religion and the existence of god. Ok?

4. Yes. Atheism is a state of mind in the same way that skepticism , optimism, doubt, anxiety, fear, joy etc, etc. are also states mind.
What was your point ?

FOLYKAZE:


Hey boss, you missing my point here.
Here is a scope of religion: as a social institution, religion is a pattern of social action organized around the beliefs and practices that people develop to answer questions about the meaning of existence.

To most atheists, the meaning of existence lies in darwinism which makes their point of view different from the creation view

This is where you are wrong, many theists still buy the theory of evolution, which is a scientific study and not a belief... Understand that.
Agreeing with a scientific fact doesnt make it a belief or doctrine.

Secondly; Most atheist say I don't know When faced with the question of how life began.

Many only think that scientific methods should be used in solving questions. .

jayriginal:

Sure, like hockey and my devotion to oxygen right?

In as much devotion is involve, it is religion.

Oxygen, Jiva is a concept in jainism.

jayriginal:

FOLYKAZE you are quite welcome to call my hobbies a religion. By that standard, atheism will have to be a religion. Education will have to be a religion as well. That standard qualifies well nigh everything (even posting on nairaland) as a religion and it is starkly ridiculous!s

I didnt call those activites religion.

They are simply religion going by the definition of religion.

jayriginal:

If I define a car as anything that has wheels on it and if I insist on that definition, then wheelbarrows and bicycles automatically become cars.

You are right going by your definition

jayriginal:

Thanks

welcom

jayriginal:

Care to explain further?

Google natural religion

jayriginal:

But I told you that atheism is not an interest or a devotion or belief or activity. That alone takes atheism outside your third definition. My guitar and chess activities fall within that definition but not atheism.

Evangelical atheism has some form of devotion and interest.

jayriginal:




Perhaps you are a deist then and what you meant to say was that you do not believe in a God as proclaimed by organized religion. Is this right?

DeepSight drag yourself here.

Yes you're right I guess. I love learning and organised religion( my family are Muslims) doesn't allow me to value all the different theories in the world because in all honesty it's ALL theories.
What do you mean by deepsight?

FOLYKAZE:


Hey boss, you missing my point here.
Here is a scope of religion: as a social institution, religion is a pattern of social action organized around the beliefs and practices that people develop to answer questions about the meaning of existence.

To most atheists, the meaning of existence lies in darwinism which makes their point of view different from the creation view

Pls pls refrain from linking atheism and Darwinism.
This is cheap.
Quite a lot of atheists may never fully understand Darwinism.
I do not think you understand Darwinism.

Darwinism makes no attempt whatsoever, to offer the meaning of existence, as you have been falsely repeating.
Darwinism, like most scientific theories, attempts , albeit successful, to offer us a glimpse of how nature is organized for the propagation of life.

Atheists, by some strange mystery, tend be well educated, and as such, would normally accept the scientific worldview that has proven to be true over the past 150yrs of rigorous testing.
Pls understand that.

Chiam55:


Yes you're right I guess. I love learning and organised religion( my family are Muslims) doesn't allow me to value all the different theories in the world because in all honesty it's ALL theories.
What do you mean by deepsight?

DeepSight is a member of this forum. He used to be a deist. You might enjoy discussing with him.

plaetton:


C'mon man, you can do better than this.

1. Atheism is not a practice, and does involve any forms of practice. Ok?

2. Atheism is not a phenomenon, and does not attract any form devotion ( do you know the meaning of devotion?). Ok?

3. I have no idea what you mean by "atheism propel Darwinism" Atheism have nothing to with Darwinism. Atheism does no propel anything.
Atheists, generally speaking, are usually people who seek rational answers to existential questions.
In other words my friend, atheism doesn't lead people to be curious and rational. No sir.

It is natural curiosity , natural, healthy skepticism and rational thinking that leads one to question the many myths of religion and the existence of god. Ok?

4. Yes. Atheism is a state of mind in the same way that skepticism , optimism, doubt, anxiety, fear, joy etc, etc. are also states mind.
What was your point ?

1. Where did I say atheism is a practise?

2. Militant atheists are devoted to anti-theism cause.

3. You sadd ;Atheists, generally speaking, are usually people who seek rational answers to existential questions.

This answers lead to darwinism.

And here is what religion is, s a social institution, religion is a pattern of social action organized around the beliefs and practices that people develop to answer questions about the meaning of existence.

Do you see where I am driving at with this?

4. Fear, anxiety and all thse you listed there are gods. It compound form of a religion.

johnydon22:


This is where you are wrong, many theists still buy the theory of evolution, which is a scientific study and not a belief... Understand that.
Agreeing with a scientific fact doesnt make it a belief or doctrine.

Secondly; Most atheist say I don't know When faced with the question of how life began.

Many only think that scientific methods should be used in solving questions. .

Agreeing and acknowledge is knowledge.

Knowledge is a justifed belief.

So you cannot runaway from belief bro.

Meanwhile, I said most atheists and not all tend to answer existence question through darwinism.

That is my point

FOLYKAZE:


Agreeing and acknowledge is knowledge.

Knowledge is a justifed belief.

So you cannot runaway from belief bro.

Meanwhile, I said most atheists and not all tend to answer existence question through darwinism.

That is my point

. . Knowledge. . Dictionary. .

The fact of knowing about something; general understanding or familiarity with a subject, place, situation etc. [from 14th c.]

Awareness of a particular fact or situation; a state of having been informed or made aware of something. [from 14th c.]

Intellectual understanding; the state of appreciating truth or information. [from 14th c.]

Familiarity or understanding of a particular skill, branch of learning etc. [from 14th c.]

You should say, most atheists you know not most atheists in a broader sense. . Many theists i know also buy into scientific evolution theory though i always say I don't know

plaetton:


Pls pls refrain from linking atheism and Darwinism.
This is cheap.
Quite a lot of atheists may never fully understand Darwinism.
I do not think you understand Darwinism.

Darwinism makes no attempt whatsoever, to offer the meaning of existence, as you have been falsely repeating.
Darwinism, like most scientific theories, attempts , albeit successful, to offer us a glimpse of how nature is organized for the propagation of life.

Atheists, by some strange mystery, tend be well educated, and as such, would normally accept the scientific worldview that has proven to be true over the past 150yrs of rigorous testing.
Pls understand that.

Where did I say all atheists know what darwinism is? I use the word 'most' essentially in my post. This is not equivalent to all.

Educate me here pls, how is answer to existence different from propagation of life or beings?

FOLYKAZE:


In as much devotion is involve, it is religion.

Oxygen, Jiva is a concept in jainism.

And in what religion is hockey a concept? Or boxing perhaps?

I didnt call those activites religion.

They are simply religion going by the definition of religion.

You dont need to call them religion. If you provide a definition and you stand by that definition, then you adopt whatever the definition covers, no matter how ridiculous it may seem.

You are right going by your definition

What happens when the definition is incorrect as is the case?

Evangelical atheism has some form of devotion and interest.

I have an interest in living. Is that also a religion?

johnydon22:


. . Knowledge. . Dictionary. .

The fact of knowing about something; general understanding or familiarity with a subject, place, situation etc. [from 14th c.]

Knowledge according to my philosophy is a justified true belief

jayriginal:

And in what religion is hockey a concept? Or boxing perhaps?

I dont know.

All the same, religion is 'tie to'.

Devotion is 'tie to'.

Anything you are devoted to is your religion.

jayriginal:

You dont need to call them religion. If you provide a definition and you stand by that definition, then you adopt whatever the definition covers, no matter how ridiculous it may seem.

I didnt come up with the definition.

Like when you said God does not exist. And God is defined as an influencial person, does this mean influencial personality does not exist?

jayriginal:

What happens when the definition is incorrect as is the case?

your wish. You didnt prove it incorrect.

jayriginal:

I have an interest in living. Is that also a religion?

It is a religion.

To which particualr religion, I dont know

FOLYKAZE:


1. Where did I say atheism is a practise?

2. Militant atheists are devoted to anti-theism cause.

3. You sadd ;Atheists, generally speaking, are usually people who seek rational answers to existential questions.

This answers lead to darwinism.

And here is what religion is, s a social institution, religion is a pattern of social action organized around the beliefs and practices that people develop to answer questions about the meaning of existence.

Do you see where I am driving at with this?

4. Fear, anxiety and all thse you listed there are gods. It compound form of a religion.

1. You used the word"practice"to describe religion in your attempt to associate atheism with religion.

2. Your so-called militant atheism is similar to civil rights movements who are loud and sometimes obnoxious in their protests and campaigns against the evil machinations of the religiously inspired.
Again, I remind you that in our modern democratic reality, any and every one is free to voice out against oppression.
For thousands of years, including the very present times, people inspired by religion have been oppressing, persecuting killing nonbelievers. It is highly hypocritical and double standard to call someone a militant atheist for daring to raise his or her voice against the evils and absurdities of religious beliefs.

3. I repeat for the millionth time, Darwinism is not a philosophical system. Atheism doesn't lead to Darwinism, Daaahhh!

Anyone, every who goes to school, pays attention and studies Darwin's theory of evolution, is expected to understand how nature organizes itself for propagation of species.

Don't take this personal, but it is Nigeria's pitiful education system and standards that produce educated people who neither understand nor accept this simple scientific theory/ model of nature. This is because there is too much religious garbage that clutter young developing minds in Nigeria. This is fact.

In conclusion, atheism is NOT a social institution.
Atheism is NOT a pattern of behaviour or actions organized around any belief or beliefs.
THERE is no belief.

I am trying hard to imagine the social institution and pattern of behaviour and actions YOU have built around your non-belief in the existence of Santa Clause.

FOLYKAZE:


I dont know.

All the same, religion is 'tie to'.

Devotion is 'tie to'.

Anything you are devoted to is your religion.



I didnt come up with the definition.

Like when you said God does not exist. And God is defined as an influencial person, does this mean influencial personality does not exist?



your wish. You didnt prove it incorrect.




It is a religion.

To which particualr religion, I dont know

Lol. My new religion is preserving my sanity by refraining from discussing with you on this issue.

plaetton:

1. You used the word"practice"to describe religion in your attempt to associate atheism with religion.

2. Your so-called militant atheism is similar to civil rights movements who are loud and sometimes obnoxious in their protests and campaigns against the evil machinations of the religiously inspired.
Again, I remind you that in our modern democratic reality, any and every one is free to voice out against oppression.
For thousands of years, including the very present times, people inspired by religion have been oppressing, persecuting killing nonbelievers. It is highly hypocritical and double standard to call someone a militant against for daring to raise his or voice against the evils and absurdities of religious beliefs.

3. I repeat for the millionth time, Darwinism is not a philosophical system. Atheism doesn't lead to Darwinism, Daaahhh!
Anyone, every who goes to school, pays attention and studies Darwin's theory of evolution, is expected to understand how nature organizes itself for propagation of species.

Don't take this personal, but it is Nigeria's pitiful education system and standards that produce educated people who neither understand nor accept this simple scientific theory/ model of nature. This is because there is too much religious garbage that clutter young developing minds in Nigeria. This is fact.

In conclusion, atheism is NOT a social institution.
Atheism is NOT a pattern of behaviour or actions organized around any belief or beliefs.
THERE is no belief.

I am trying hard to imagine the social institution and pattern of behaviour and actions YOU have built around your non-belief in the existence of Santa Clause.

1. That was a reply to jayriginal's claim that some atheist love okra while others like vegetables. I affirmed that this difference is common in religious practise. The differences does not stop religious practises from been religion.

2. I am not interested in this epistle. Militant atheists are devoted to anti-theism cause. Yes/no?

3. A non belief in any deity is a social institution to the extent of having a gathering for it. New atheism movement is an institution.

You said ;Atheists, generally speaking, are usually people who seek rational answers to existential questions. How do you answer existential questions if not through darwinism? Or are you subjected to creationism?

jayriginal:


Lol. My new religion is preserving my sanity by refraining from discussing with you on this issue.

Erm. . . .

Atheism is disbelief in God.

God can be defined as influencial person.

Do you as an atheist disbelief in God (defined as influencial personality)?

This is where importance of definition relies

FOLYKAZE:


Erm. . . .

Atheism is disbelief in God.

God can be defined as influencial person.

Do you as an atheist disbelief in God (defined as influencial personality)?

This is where importance of definition relies

I cant understand you. Perhaps you should put it in another form for me to grasp.

jayriginal:


I cant understand you. Perhaps you should put it in another form for me to grasp.

Atheism is disbelief in God.

While God from dictionary is an influencial person. In apotheosis, emperor and powerful leaders are Gods.

So as an atheist, do you disbelieve in the existence of God base on definition from dico and apotheosis concept?

FOLYKAZE:


Erm. . . .

Atheism is disbelief in God.

God can be defined as influencial person.

Do you as an atheist disbelief in God (defined as influencial personality)?

This is where importance of definition relies

Remember God can also be defined as The gallery in a theater

That the gallery in a theater is called God doesnt mean it to be a deity.

That an influencial person is called God doesnt make that person a deity.

Some people that read the story i write call me a God in writing, this doesnt make me a deity.

The definition of God as regard influencial person or a gallery in a theater is VERY different from the definition of God in the religious or lets say deital sense. . . So please stop mixing them up.

jayriginal:


And so Im a polytheist. Chess is my religion. Music is my religion. Breathing oxygen is my religion (Im really devoted and tied to that).

How many religions do you have FOLYKAZE? (apart from spiritual atheism of course).

AH! A chess player! Well if Chess is my religion then I must consider bridge players to be heretics

(I have seen many excellent Chess players have their game decline when they took up bridge!)

johnydon22:


Remember God can also be defined as The gallery in a theater

That the gallery in a theater is called God doesnt mean it to be a deity.

That an influencial person is called God doesnt make that person a deity.

Some people that read the story i write call me a God in writing, this doesnt make me a deity.

The definition of God as regard influencial person or a gallery in a theater is VERY different from the definition of God in the religious or lets say deital sense. . . So please stop mixing them up.

What is the difference between god and deity? I don die i swear.

In apotheosis, MAN IS DEITY

FOLYKAZE:


Atheism is disbelief in God.

While God from dictionary is an influencial person. In apotheosis, emperor and powerful leaders are Gods.

So as an atheist, do you disbelieve in the existence of God base on definition from dico and apotheosis concept?

You are using God in two different senses. Thats equivocation/ambiguity. Your argument is flawed.

Its like saying dogs are men who chase women. Do you believe dogs have four legs? Two different meanings.

KoloOyinbo:


AH! A chess player! Well if Chess is my religion then I must consider bridge players to be heretics

(I have seen many excellent Chess players have their game decline when they took up bridge!)

FOLYKAZE:


What is the difference between god and deity? I don die i swear.

In apotheosis, MAN IS DEITY

we hail almighty gallery of a theater

When you stop mixing up to distinct concepts then you will be taken seriously ..

FOLYKAZE:


1. That was a reply to jayriginal's claim that some atheist love okra while others like vegetables. I affirmed that this difference is common in religious practise. The differences does not stop religious practises from been religion.

2. I am not interested in this epistle. Militant atheists are devoted to anti-theism cause. Yes/no?

3. A non belief in any deity is a social institution to the extent of having a gathering for it. New atheism movement is an institution.

You said ;Atheists, generally speaking, are usually people who seek rational answers to existential questions. How do you answer existential questions if not through darwinism? Or are you subjected to creationism?

Kindly tell us you personal definition (not Wikipedia) of militant atheism. Let's see if it's a real phenomenon or an oxymoron.

Kindly, also, tell us your definition and understanding of Darwinism, and how it supposedly relates to the meaning of existence , according to atheism.

Guys I'm really enjoying this debate

Chiam55:
Guys I'm really enjoying this debate

I am so glad. I only suggested this thread in passing and never thought my suggestion would be taken seriously! But it has brought enjoyment and interest to some then great.

Love the dimples by the way - if you don't mind a compliment from an Oyinbo - especially a KOLOoyinbo!