juman:
They lacked freedom. You cannot replace freedom with anything.




Your number 10 is nothing but fantasy. Wrong.

ADAMUdaCOWBOY:

It is not Libyans but Nigerians and Ghanaians that are dying in the Mediterranean.

socialmediaman: People don't just start a revolution because they're fed lies, they have been planning it, and when they see opportunity, they carry it out..

PassingShot:


More Libyans than any other nationality die in Mediterranean. Read here:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/20/world/europe/italy-migrants-capsized-boat-off-libya.html?_r=0

"The fatal shipwreck may prove to be the Mediterranean’s deadliest migrant disaster ever and is only the latest tragedy in Europe’s migration crisis. Warmer spring weather has unleashed a torrent of smuggler boats, mostly from Libya, bearing migrants and refugees from the Middle East and Africa, often fleeing war and poverty for a foothold in Europe".

MizMyColi:


But they can start one, if they are fed half-truths.
You don't gerrit Bro.

The real world rulers own the media, in all its forms.
They understand and would stop at nothing in a bid to unleash its collective power and viability as a means to get the masses to do their bidding.

I needn't say more...

ADAMUdaCOWBOY:

There is no part of the passage that said more libyans died than any nationality. Did you not see 'torrent of smuggler boats' before the bolded? Libya is only a route used by the migrants and the Libyans only serve as human traffickers. The crisis in Libya heightened the activity of the smugglers. Read the below extract from the link you provided:

Prime Minister Matteo Renzi of Italy, speaking Sunday, blamed human traffickers who smuggle migrants on rickety ships, describing them as “the slave drivers of the 21st century.”

Mr. Renzi conferred with European leaders on Sunday and has called for an emergency summit meeting to discuss the migration crisis and how Europe can help bring political stability to Libya, where criminal smuggling gangs are operating freely.

sebali:
U re right he his reign was productive bt he shud hav taken a bow wen d pple said 42yrs was enuff, dat was were he failed.

PassingShot:


I might take time to search for a breakdown of African immigrants (focus on Libya) who have attempted crossing to Europe pre-uprising era and post-uprising era. In the meantime, would you argue that the war in Libya brought about as a result of the revolution that toppled and murdered Gaddafi has not caused an increase in illegal Libya immigrants to Europe?

socialmediaman:
If all these were true, then why did Libyans fight for him to leave?

Tomorrow someone will come out and say under President XYZ of Nigeria who was voted out, education, healthcare, business loans, housing etc were free and available to all Nigerians.

OrlandoOwoh:

Show me where the people said 42 years was enough. Where were they when he spent that number of years?

Emphany:
you talk like a coward,must you drag your country through the mud. Its obvious you dont respect your home like Libians respect theirs...Mtschew.

juman:
They lacked freedom. You cannot replace freedom with anything.




Your number 10 is nothing but fantasy. Wrong.

socialmediaman:
Libyans had no voices within Libya. It was the foreign media that helped them express their voices outside Libya, especially Libyans living abroad. When the revolution started, that's when they found their voices.

socialmediaman:
I kinda made my inference from the 2 sides of the story and it makes sense to me. It's like East and West Germany. The government on both sides were different, one was high handed, the other had freedom and opportunities. People were forced to stay in the east, it was different in the west. Sometimes the handouts people are given are not enough for them, they wanna be free to explore their potentials. One Egyptian guy once told me he wanted to travel out but he wouldn't be given a passport, it wasn't allowed. In such societies you can't get justice because a certain class of people are ruling. One Libyan once said he wanted to become a Doctor but he wasn't allowed to study English language and some medical courses, everything was controlled and people just feel trapped. People don't just start a revolution because they're fed lies, they have been planning it, and when they see opportunity, they carry it out..

Categorically untrue. Despite poor electricity infrastructure and poor coverage of electricity lines, even in the Capital, Libyan home owners pay monthly/quarterly (area dependant) electricity bills based on meter readings. Electricity is cut off in instances of unpaid bills. Reconnection upon payment is not instant. The electric infrastructure is weak and some areas of Libya do not have electricity available at all.

Categorically untrue. Banks all over Libya have been giving out loans for years and years. There is a percentage rate charge on all loans, which is comparable to an interest rate, but in the spirit of ‘islamic ethics’ it is not called interest, it is called an ‘Administrative Expense’ – Masareef Edareeya.

Gaddafi abused this human right as much as he did other basic rights. It is well known in Libya that political opponents and successful business men/women had their homes confiscated and handed over to regime members, usually rewards for Free Officers – Dubat A7rar. Many farms and homes and businesses were confiscated during three infamous phases of Libyas dictatorial history:

1969 – The dreaded Green Revolution. Free Officers were rewarded land, homes, and farms that sometimes belonged to other people and the original owners were not compensated or asked if this was ok.
Late 70’s – The introduction of the law Albayt le Sakinehee – The Home Belongs to its Dwellers. As this law was passed overnight, thousands of homeowners instantly lost their homes, as tenants (those renting the homes) claimed ownership on account of being the ‘dwellers’. The law applied to homes, farms, shops, etc.
90’s – The introduction of Purification Committees (Lejnat al Tatheer). This committee ran by the widely know slogan, ‘Min ayna laka hada?’ – “From where did you obtain this?”, a form of ultra-socialism where people’s possessions, including homes and businesses, were confiscated if seen to be ‘surplus to requirement’ or contributing to a ‘monopoly’.

This is a well known rumour and a common joke in Libya. Whilst it may have been passed as official legislation, I know of not a single family who has been given this grant. The backbreaking bureaucracy associated with such grants and loans make them more or less impossible to obtain.

Education and Health Care – Free does not mean adequate. It is well known that Libya’s standard of health care is nothing short of appalling. It is widely known that the majority of Libyans seeking medical care leave for neighbouring countries for treatment. Our Education system is no better. It is outdated, teachers are underpaid and under-trained and libraries are largely non-existent. The syllabus was constantly being revised and reviewed under direct instruction from the former regime e.g. banning English, changing Quranic verses, etc.
It is commonly said that Libyans would be happy to forfeit their ‘free health care’ and pay for a National Health Service if it was up to the required standard.

This has never happened, in addition to this many farms and homes have been confiscated by the government to build railroads, The Great Man Made River and civil roads.

The owners of the land were only compensated if there was a covered structure on the land as the Gaddafi regime legally owned any land and the people were only allowed to build on it. When there was compensation offered it was nowhere near the actual value of the property and many waited years to receive anything if at all. This system was also rife with corruption many residents told they had to pay a bribe to receive what little they were given.

Categorically untrue. If this was the case, the former regime would have been in receipt of 6 million application forms – one for every man, women and child who ‘cannot find education or medical facilities they need’. This grant does not exist for the mainstream public. There is anectdotal evidence of some medical grants being given but again, the system was corrupt and opaque.

There is no truth to the former Gaddafi regime paying 50% of the value of a new car.

Whilst the price of fuel is indeed cheap, the quality of roads, the accuracy and availability of road signs, the presence of road traffic police, and all other transport infrastructure is of abysmal standard.

The absence of an integrated and functional public transport system means that people are reliant on their cars for all movement and might end up paying more on fuel than our neighbours around the Mediterranean basin.

Whilst our sovereign wealth is undeniable, none of it was spent on the people of Libya nor the infrastructure of the country. Basic amenities, services, and state infrastructure are either absent or of appalling standard.

The availability of money is not tantamount to wealth or prosperity. The Arabs have a saying about Libya – “A rich nation of poor inhabitants.”

Categorically untrue. Even basic wages are sometimes unpaid for months, for those lucky enough to be employed. Welfare for the unemployed is non-existent.

No basis to this claim as no such case can be found.

Categorically untrue. There is a Child Benefit welfare payment in Libya – it is roughly 15-20 Libyan Dinars a month per child. No Libyan citizen was given foreign currency as compensation.

Bread was subsidized by the state. Whilst the price varies (marginally) from shop to shop, bread usually costs ¼ dinars for 10 baguettes (small) or roughly 500grams per dinar.

The absence of a comprehensive selection process and a corrupt entry protocol means that universities in Libya are grossly over populated and over subscribed, despite limited facilities. This results in an over inflated number of graduates, but not necessarily an adequate level of employability. There are thousands of students studying foundation year medicine in Tripoli alone.

The Jury is still out on this. The project has indeed supplied water to many towns and cities around Libya, but the cost is thought to be as stratastrophic as the time it took to complete this. Further, decades of an absence of appropriate licensing, monitoring and control has meant that wells were dug for every home, putting immense pressure on Libya’s natural and naturally replenishable water sources. This resulted in the increase of salinity in local water reserves, which lead to the need for an expansive project such as the Man Made River

socialmediaman:
I kinda made my inference from the 2 sides of the story and it makes sense to me. It's like East and West Germany. The government on both sides were different, one was high handed, the other had freedom and opportunities. People were forced to stay in the east, it was different in the west. Sometimes the handouts people are given are not enough for them, they wanna be free to explore their potentials. One Egyptian guy once told me he wanted to travel out but he wouldn't be given a passport, it wasn't allowed. In such societies you can't get justice because a certain class of people are ruling. One Libyan once said he wanted to become a Doctor but he wasn't allowed to study English language and some medical courses, everything was controlled and people just feel trapped. People don't just start a revolution because they're fed lies, they have been planning it, and when they see opportunity, they carry it out..

Noneroone:
george orwell once said that human beings do not revolt until they are shown a standard for comparism.

Ghaddafi did his best but did not do well to protect his regime through counter propaganda.that was his only crime.

Politics is all about perception that's why propaganda is a major component.

What you hold to be true will cease to be true once another actor convinces you to believe his world view whether it is real or not.

Human beings are only intelligent animals. Freedom and equality are defined according to social orders and each state try to convince another to accept his own through propaganda.

Hence some Americans and britons are joining Isis despite being 'free'?

TheOtherview:


You are too right @socialmediaman.
It is difficult to process these unqualified hagiographies when I know that, once we strip away the veneer of propaganda, the truth lies somewhere between the claims and counter-claims made below.

Not sure I have the strength to rehash some of things I have written about that regime here... So I will just see if I can find some of my old posts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
THE UNKNOWN FACTS ABOUT THE LIBYAN DICTATOR MUAMMAR GADDAFI:
1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.



2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.



3. Home considered a human right in Libya – Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home. Gaddafi’s father has died while him, his wife and his mother are still living in a tent.



4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$50,000) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.



5. Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans were literate. Today the figure is 83%.



6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kick-start their farms – all for free.



7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, the government funds them to go abroad for it – not only free but they get US$2,300/mth accommodation and car allowance.



8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidized 50% of the price.



9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per litre.

10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to $150 billion – now frozen globally.



11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found.



12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.



13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US$5,000



14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15



15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree



16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Man-Made River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.



Source: http://feb17.info/news/myths-of-the-gaddafi-regime-explained/

socialmediaman:
If all these were true, then why did Libyans fight for him to leave?

Tomorrow someone will come out and say under President XYZ of Nigeria who was voted out, education, healthcare, business loans, housing etc were free and available to all Nigerians.

abduljabbar4:


You are wrong. Even before his death, I knew all these. When I condemned his killing back in 2011, people saw me as an enemy of progress. Go and make research. Libya is going down gradually

OrlandoOwoh:

Show me where the people said 42 years was enough. Where were they when he spent that number of years?

socialmediaman:
Brilliant. I feel though that even God gave us freedom as humans, and no human should withdraw the freedom of others within acceptable limits. Ghadaffi provided services to the people to an extent, though hyped, but he withdrew their freedom and limited their desires and opportunities. When people realize the "truth", they want to explore it, however complex the real truth may be later. When many Nigerians travel abroad and see the "heavens" built in America, they can't help it but feel only hate and disgust for those corrupt elites back home preventing their system from reaching greater heights

socialmediaman:
It will go down before it comes up again. Nations like the USA, France etc faced similar problems before they got to where they were, the difference was, the leaders were not as greedy as African leaders who would never go down when their countrymen ask them to, till death meets them, in the end, a lot of destruction has already been done. If GEJ had refused to hand over power when Majority of Nigerians rejected his government, same fate could've befallen Nigeria. Thank God he did the right thing...

sebali:


Americans didnt go into libya to protest, did they?
The ans is no. Libyans started d protest that was were dey said 42yrs was enough.

OrlandoOwoh:

You call shooting of guns protest? Who gave them the explosives?

abduljabbar4:

I'm not saying saying that Ghaddafi was 100% right but now you can see that they are getting what they asked for

Noneroone:
with the present situation in libya, will you justify the revolution?

Noneroone:
with the present situation in libya, will you justify the revolution?

sebali:


dey wanted what Gadafi wont giv dem "fredom"

sebali:
U re right he his reign was productive bt he shud hav taken a bow wen d pple said 42yrs was enuff, dat was were he failed.

PassingShot:
Libya, and indeed Africa has lost a great leader in Gaddafi and Libya's present generation and many to come will forever regret their action on that man.

Under Gaddafi, Libyans were practically living in "paradise on earth" and you hardly saw them traveling to other countries in search of "greener pasture".

After murdering him and plunging their country in chaos, many Libyans now die in the Mediterranean Sea in an attemp to migrate illegally to Europe.

When one looks back and realize what they've made of their country and life, you just have to pity them and HATE the Western countries especially America, UK, Germany and France who supported and prosecuted the violent uprising that resulted in the catastrophic situation that country is presently in.