naijababe:


You are missing the point, we did not evolved, we simply swapped on for another, even comment alluded to that.

Yes, we did evolve from Apes using stones to light fire , nudists walking the whole place naked and bush men who killed twins like you said. That's evolution na.
About Gods, we just did what we were being told. If I met my parents as Sango worshipers, it's most likely I become a Sango Worshiper too, until I declare otherwise. We don't know our Gods, we only follow in the footsteps of those that claim to know them. Even though, the whole religion thing is hearsay, stories from books and the 'beautiful' fruits of FAITH.

naijababe:

That is quite a tall order and naive like I said before There is nothing wrong in believing in miracles, the problem is our laziness and our need for instant gratification. It is time people start to hold themselves personally accountable, it is lazy and irresponsible to just blame pastors or entrepreneurs! When a persons falls for a scam, we are quick to point out their intrinsic greed to begin with, why do we not apply the same logic to the followership, abi are they sheep literally ni?

I may be naive in all things relating to religion and this stems from the fact that I refuse to believe gibberish. I HATE religion as it is being practised right now.
Again, what do you call a Pastorprenuer(shepherd) who deceives his clients/congregation (sheep) just to milk them dry. Promising them things that will never happen, offering prayers on the altar of blood, deceit and lies. The laziness you speak of is another direct effect of religion, people now think the divine being will do things for them, because there are promises in the bible to that effect. Instead of applying common sense to solve problems, they wait on Pastoprenuers to deliver miracles from above.

naijababe:

Between global warming, disregard for the environment and over population, there is a very good chance it might

Well, if the world is to end with us in it, we have been told that God will send majority of us to blazing-hot hell. Because out of a thousand men, you can not find five men that are Holy according to the Bible's standard.

So, get ready, you all

Billyonaire:
To your last question; If Jesus of Oyingbo used Jazz to hypnotized his 'followers' - The answer is 'No!'. The mind of humans constantly seek to believe what ever is constantly repeated. It thrives on resonance and it is the essence of creationism. It works in both ways, if you repeatedly tell a lie just for so long, people will massively believe it. If you constantly repeat the sentence 'I will make it' somehow you will.

We might all think it is odd for people to have believed such a con, but have we ever questioned the sanity of the millions of Christians worldwide who believe the 'Virgin Birth of Jesus of Nazareth' ? This is a bigger hypnotism. Do we question the rationale behind the cult-like followership of Mohammed of Islam, even so blinded by the believe that they will inherit virgins after Jihad ? How do people expect to have sex when there is no physical body there ? There is madness and stupidity in 'all' religions. One can confidently say, that Religion itself is a scam that has elements of truism.

One does not need religion to know about God, you need Science.

Wow this is applaudable, I can't believe I can still find a Nigerian still in his full mental capacity. The scam called religion has eaten deep into my people that even though they tell them their dead and rotten Jesus will come 2moro they would believe. What a hogwash....

johnny1980:
and guess what, the average place you can get a semblance of this quality education is actually owned by these same religious institutions in Nigeria and they thorougly indoctrinate their students with all those hero worshipping BS. So both ways we are terribly Fuc.ked and the circle continues.

Bingo!

That is what my lamentations are all about.


BTW, my apology for the use of harsh words earlier.

standd:


Yes, we did evolve from Apes using stones to light fire , nudists walking the whole place naked and bush who killed twins like you said. That's evolution na.

Ape to man is evolution, swapping babalawo for a pastor is not

I may be naive in all things relating to religion and this stems from the fact that I refuse to believe gibberish. I HATE religion as it is being practised right now.
Again, what do you call a Pastorprenuer(shepherd) who deceives his clients/congregation (sheep) just to milk them dry. Promising them things that will never happen, offering prayers on the altar if blood and lies. The laziness you speak of is another direct effect of religion, people now thing the divine being will do things for them, because there are promises in the bible to that effect. Instead of applying common sense to solve problems, they wait on Pastoprenuers to deliver miracles from above.

In a scam but the scammer and scammee are guilty, I was not exonearting the pastors, simply stating that 'us' as individuals should begin to take some responsibility

Well, if the world is to end with us in it, we have been told that God will send majority of us to blazing-hot hell. Because out of a thousand men, you can not find 5 that are Holy according to the Bible's standard.
So, get ready, you all

I dunno if the after-life exists or not and frankly speaking it is not important as far as I am concerned, I am here now and I intend to make my God given talents in the service of others count

Just like everything in life, religion has its good and bad. Truly humans are the most wicked of all of earth's species, and religion has made us a little meek. Christianity to be exact. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I remember Jesu Oyingbo and all the tales. I remember people were anxiously waiting for him to rise up, like the bleached one of recent. Very funny how people can be misled. Believe in God, but be careful what you follow. So many Charlatans called imams and pastors who do not believe in God at all, yet have mega churches. They use their flock to enrich, protect and carry out psychotic plans. They don't fear God at all.

naijababe:



I dunno if the after-life exists or not and frankly speaking it is not important as far as I am concerned, I am here now and I intend to make my God given talents in the service of others count

Whatever the afterlife is, we will never know until we get there. But people should stop using religion as an excuse to do and believe rubbish.

standd:


Whatever the afterlife is, we will never know until we get there. But people should stop using religion as an excuse to do and believe rubbish.

Everyone should remember to take stock for themselves and hold themselves accountable first.

Nice ping-ponging with you on Sunday afternoon, going back to Grace and Frankie

naijababe:



Everyone should remember to take stock for themselves and hold themselves accountable first.

Nice ping-ponging with you on Sunday afternoon, going back to Grace and Frankie

Alright ma'am

plaetton:


Bingo!

That is what my lamentations are all about.


BTW, my apology for the use of harsh words earlier.

No ish. I always try to debate on the technicalities of an issue without letting my prejudice get into the discourse. It's just that anytime such issues about religion, people doing wrong or behaving in an archaic way we see many people run over to heap all the blames on Africans. Making it clear that it's not an african thing alone does not mean we are trying to absolve Africans of such behaviors. We are just saying taking a broader look at things and don't limit discourse to your environment.

For example, let issues on corporal punishment or child punishment crop up here and see how people would make it seem it's only Africans that beat their kids when they do wrong and the so called Oyinbos don't even spank their kids. I have a bit experience with such and have seen numerous scenarios where kids were beaten for wrong doing and even like 7 out of 10 American parents would agree they spanked their kids to correct them but my fellow Nigerian here would swear with their left eye that it never happens over there. I guess they watch too much hollywood movies and forget all those aren't the realities on ground.

All the same, welcome. We africans still have a long way to go and mass quality education is a very good step at correcting these issues.

plaetton:


My dear friend.
Pls read my posts carefully.
Let me repeat, religious manipulation occurs everywhere under the very same conditions.

In Africa, those conditions that make it easy for religious manipulation are pervasive and Show no signs of abating.
In Nigeria, superstition and magical thinking are too pervasive. Evangelical filth just adds fuel to that fire.
Whereas, in the USA and other countries, public enlightenment, education, good governance , good health, stable economy and stable political culture can mitigate religious superstition over time, in Africa, that is not the case.
In Nigeria, evangelical pastors target universities and university students to hawk their magical thinking and superstitions.

I had a nice who dropped and refused to take a course in psychology simply because it was giving her bad ideas about her religious beliefs.

hope say you slapped the "devil" out of her.. SMH

plaetton:


For what?

Was he my townsman?

His own townsmen don't even buy that bulkshyte.

Why should an African?
Or, are we somehow smarter than his own townsmen ?

That's the million dollar question.

thank you..

standd:


When you are a Nigerian, in Nigeria and on Nairaland, you contribute to topics with what you have seen, or what you know.
Besides, majority of the people who know Jesu of Oyingbo have never heard of Jim Jones hence, the tendency to tag the episode as a Nigerian thing.
Religion is being used to brainwash hordes of people worldwide, I personally believe that humanity will only achieve her full potentials if religion ceases to exist; and man starts to think with his brain.
People would stop believing in gibberish and then subsequently, use a greater part of their brain to better their lives and make smart decisions( without interference from pastorprenuers or hopes in miracles).
I may not be alive when this happens but I know it will surely happen since the human race will continue to evolve. One day, religion will be another fairytale relegated to history books.

Another wrong thought from you. I guess you are very young and yet to experience the world in its real form. I understand that YOU believe religion clogs the wheel of development and your thoughts that religion would turn to a fairy tale in the future is very laughable. You need to just take a sit back and look at history. Even great scientists and progenitors of science like Copenicus and Laplace believed there was an higher being involved in the creation of the world as we see it today. They only differed with classical religion by stating that such higher being stopped interfering after creation and natural laws were allowed to rule. That's actually a religion for some and it's called Deism. Also throughout history religion has always being part of man's life. They always believed in something higher and till the world ceases such would still continue to exist.

Your problem is that we young people or humans tend to always look for scapegoats to heap the blames of an anomaly on. But fact is that the scapegoate here is not Religion but the people who turn religion into what it is not. Over time, man has been always known to look for ways of exploiting things to their advantage. Greed, selfishness has always being the order of the day. It's natural- and most call it survival instincts which is ingrained in our DNAs.

The same education and science you are extolling now is what some people have been using to extort and commit barbaric crimes. Or you have forgotten cases of scientist harvesting body organs from humans to carry out tests in their labs, Nazis taking black people and keeping them in cages to create "super soldiers", recent researches that raise ethical questions like the controversial invitro fertilization of egg using selective DNA strands or is it the various Nuclear weapons developed by scientists which could have wiped off the humans on earth in seconds you want to mention.


Truth most of you don't realise is. Remove religion and something more terrible will replace it immediately. This means, it ain't religion that's the problem but the people practising it.

You will always need religion. All we just need to do is to make it a "moral and emotional check or balance to logical thought". Two very important things science lacks. Humans are emotional beings, science or education is logical. This means that religion has to be kept separate
from our analysis of the physical world.

Achieve that amongst the majority of humans and you would have a better world deviod of such scenarios.

By the way, Naijababe has properly dissected it to let you see current religion ain't the problem but the people in it.

superior1:
The spirit of falsehood is still around, there is one around Idimu area of Lagos currently.

Are you referring to "KOGBE-REGBE? That C&S man. Hmmmm diaris God oooo

;DEleyi gidi gannnnnnn![color=#000099]

Ishilove:
I was very young when this man died, but i do faintly recall he was very flamboyant and controversial. I have always found him fascinating, so i went digging and came up with bits and pieces of information about his shocking religious movement.



When 'Jesu' died in 1988, as it is with a lot of polygamous families with no will written by the patriarch before he passed, his wives, children and members engaged in a legal brawl over the man's wealth and property. During the course of the dispute, a lot of shocking and disgusting things which had taken place in secret was revealed.


http://nigeria.gounna.com/show/show/70032/1

I wonder how Lagos fared in the 'rescue mission' of those under the so-called hypnosis... Anyway, this article below, written by the New York Times ten years after his death, gives an insight into the lives of some of his children and their relationship with one another.


http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/08/world/lagos-journal-after-carnival-of-second-coming-an-apocalypse.html

[img]http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/661422-members-of-the-jesus-of-oyingbo-cult-clean-off-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=RB0GINVKNSrglg3koBnvLYR7yjFenkaxz5NDyJxZCuqQBESjW5iqehOMmhNssCRU.jpg[/img]

I wonder how people get brainwashed. The mind boggles.

Sadly, we have several 'Jesu Oyingbo' in different guises and different manifestations. One thing they have in common is charisma and charm. You will need the aforementioned to charm women into abandoning their families, careers, lives and coming to live with you. A case in point being the late Ann, who was one of the many intimacy gadgets of that notorious bearded felon on death row in Kirikiri, Reverend King. Unfortunately, she woke up too late, because her lover doused her liberally with petrol and lighted up her universe. Her deathbed testimony was very instrumental to indictment and locking up of this man called Rev King.

Despite this, his followers still troop to Kirikiri to meet him for counseling and blessings.

Jesu Oyingbo had 34 wives, and practiced a most peculiar form of syncretism, yet he had followers who did not blink when he took over their wives. To add to this sickening mix, there was large scale incest in the 'movement'.

Now my, question is this: did men like Jesu Oyingbo and Reverend King use the age old hypnosis, aka Jazz, aka, African Technology to win their die hard followers, or was it charisma and charm?

Lets discuss.

bullshit!

plaetton:


Sorry, but this post betrays a certain kind of dishonesty.

Where is the pessimism in my post?
Is that there is hopeless poverty in Africa ?
Do you wish to deny that?

Or is that religious fraudsters of all shades ( which Nigeria seem to be the largest producer) see hopeless poverty, economic disenfranchisement, social dislocation coupled with ignorant superstition as an inexhaustible resource to prey on?

Which of these do you disagree with?
If you were honest, you would have made your own argument first before calling someone a self-hater.

Perhaps you don't know the meaning of self-hate.
A person who buries his face in the sand like an ostrich , and pretends to see nothing is the true self-hater.

The self hater is the man who enjoys talking about his problems without hope and effort of getting them solved.
I know you had a sense of fulfilment as you tagged your continent of 55 countries, a poverty laden society.

fr3do:


The self hater is the man who enjoys talking about his problems without hope and effort of getting them solved.
I know you had a sense of fulfilment as you tagged your continent of 55 countries, a poverty laden society.

My friend,
Poverty in Africa is real, a real issue.
If you deny that, then I am sorry to say, you are deluded. And this type of delusion and denial of facts are the real reasons that poverty continues to ravage the ENTIRE continent of Africa, despite an abundance of natural resources.

AFRICA IS POVERTY LADEN.
If you are in denial of that fact, then that says it all.

20th Century Cult Leaders
In the late 20th century, a series of violent events involving nontraditional religious movements shocked the world. From the jungles of Guyana to the subway system in Japan to a mansion in Southern California, murder, mass suicides and mayhem prevailed. Find out about these controversial cults and their now-notorious leaders, whose influence led to often deadly consequences for their followers and, in some cases, the general public.
1. Shoko Asahara: Masterminded a deadly attack on Japan’s subway system On March 20, 1995, members of Aum Shinrikyo (“Supreme Truth”), founded by Asahara in the 1980s, released the poisonous nerve gas sarin on five crowded subway trains during morning rush hour in Tokyo, killing 13 people and sickening thousands more. Aum Shinrikyo targeted the Kasumigaseki station, in the area where many of Japan’s government offices are located, as part of what they thought would be an apocalyptic battle with the government. Born into a poor family in Japan in 1955, Asahara (real name Chizuo Matsumoto) lost part of his vision at a young age due to illness. He established Aum Shinrikyo as a religious organization that promoted Buddhist and Hindu concepts, along with elements of the Bible and prophecies of Nostradamus. Eventually, Asahara began claiming he could read minds and levitate. In 1990, he and some of his followers ran for parliament but lost. By the early 1990s, Aum Shinrikyo, which attracted members from some of Japan’s top universities, was stockpiling chemical weapons. When the 1995 subway attack took place, the group was estimated to have some 10,000 members in Japan and more than 30,000 around the world, many of them in Russia. Within several months after the attacks, Asahara was found hiding out at his group’s compound near Mount Fuji and arrested. He was convicted and sentenced to death in 2004 but remains on death row. Aum Shinrikyo, renamed Aleph in 2000, still exists, although its membership is smaller than it was in the mid-1990s.

2. Jim Jones: Ordered hundreds of his followers to kill themselves as a “revolutionary act” On November 18, 1978, more than 900 members of an American cult called the Peoples Temple died in a mass suicide-murder directed by Jones at their settlement, known as Jonestown, in the South American nation of Guyana. Jones, a self-ordained Christian minister who was born in Indiana in 1931, founded what became the Peoples Temple church in his home state in the 1950s then relocated his congregation to California in the 1960s. He eventually set up headquarters in San Francisco, where he had a large, racially diverse following and ingratiated himself with a number of political leaders by offering Peoples Temple members as campaign volunteers. In 1976, San Francisco’s mayor appointed the charismatic, power-hungry Jones, who travelled with bodyguards, to the city’s Housing Authority and he soon became its chairman. However, in 1977, following a slew of negative publicity about Temple members being physically and mentally abused by Jones, he relocated with some 1,000 of his followers to the Guyanese jungle, where he promised they would create a utopian community. Instead, the followers were subjected to harsh living conditions and punished if they questioned Jones’ authority. On November 17, U.S. Representative Leo Ryan of California arrived at Jonestown to investigate claims that Temple members were being held there against their will. Ryan and his small delegation were received cordially, but the next day, as the congressman was waiting at a nearby airstrip with his group, which by then included some Temple members who wanted to defect, they were ambushed by gunmen sent by Jones. Ryan and four others in his party were killed. Later that day, Jones, who by then was in declining mental health and addicted to drugs, ordered his followers to commit what he termed a “revolutionary act” by drinking cyanide-laced juice; those who resisted were forced to do so. Jones died from a gunshot wound to his head.
More to follow

3. Joseph Di Mambro

Di Mambro, a shadowy figure born in France in 1924, founded the Order of the Solar Temple and made the charismatic Jouret, a homeopathic doctor born in 1947 in the Belgian Congo (present-day Democratic Republic of the Congo), the organization’s public face. The secretive group was believed to have members in Canada, Switzerland, France, Australia and other countries, and Jouret preached about impending environmental disasters and the coming end of the world, along with a belief system that combined elements of New Age philosophy, Christianity and astrology, among other things.

Following the October 1994 deaths of the 53 sect members, whose bodies were discovered at Solar Temple properties that had been set on fire in Cheiry and Les Granges sur Salvan, Switzerland, and Morin Heights, Quebec, investigators estimated at least 30 of the dead had been murdered—either shot or asphyxiated. It was suspected some had been killed because they were considered traitors for criticizing the group’s leaders. The following year, after 16 Solar Temple members were found dead in a forest in southeastern France, investigations again concluded not all had died willingly. The five Solar Temple members who committed suicide in 1997 left a note indicating they believed their lives would continue on a new planet.

MrCork:



....sweeery pliss can we discuss yor figure insted??....its enterin ma eyes & right now...am on attention!!

You need deliverance

Billyonaire:


One does not need religion to know about God, you need Science.

Care to expatiate? I thought science and the supernatural where 'God' dwells do not intersect?

3. Joseph Di Mambro and Luc Jouret: Founded a murderous doomsday cult
In October 1994, Di Mambro and Jouret, along with 51 of their followers in the Order of the Solar Temple, an apocalyptic cult founded in Europe in 1984, committed suicide or were murdered in Switzerland and Quebec, Canada. The deaths of Di Mambro and Jouret didn’t bring an end to the violence: In December 1995, 16 more members took their own lives or were killed in France, while an additional five committed suicide in March 1997 in Quebec.

Di Mambro, a shadowy figure born in France in 1924, founded the Order of the Solar Temple and made the charismatic Jouret, a homeopathic doctor born in 1947 in the Belgian Congo (present-day Democratic Republic of the Congo), the organization’s public face. The secretive group was believed to have members in Canada, Switzerland, France, Australia and other countries, and Jouret preached about impending environmental disasters and the coming end of the world, along with a belief system that combined elements of New Age philosophy, Christianity and astrology, among other things.

Following the October 1994 deaths of the 53 sect members, whose bodies were discovered at Solar Temple properties that had been set on fire in Cheiry and Les Granges sur Salvan, Switzerland, and Morin Heights, Quebec, investigators estimated at least 30 of the dead had been murdered—either shot or asphyxiated. It was suspected some had been killed because they were considered traitors for criticizing the group’s leaders. The following year, after 16 Solar Temple members were found dead in a forest in southeastern France, investigations again concluded not all had died willingly. The five Solar Temple members who committed suicide in 1997 left a note indicating they believed their lives would continue on a new planet.

Ishilove:

Care to expantiate? I thought science and the supernatural where 'God' dwells do not intersect?

Gotcha, expatiate

kay29000:
OP, you just spoilt my reading experience with that..."Whose names were..." It is whose 'name' and not 'names.' I don't know who started this rubbish English in Nigeria about ten years ago. A name has first name, middle name (if any), and a last name. That is why in a form, they ask for your full name...not your full names.

plaetton:


For what?

Was he my townsman?

His own townsmen don't even buy that bulkshyte.

Why should an African?
Or, are we somehow smarter than his own townsmen ?

That's the million dollar question.

You must be macof's brother

Ishilove:

Care to expantiate? I thought science and the supernatural where 'God' dwells do not intersect?

Expatiate

Promise me you will never ban me again and I will erase this quote.

I dey suspect you

naijababe:
Well done Ishilove, quite an interesting read. Jesu Oyingbo was a force in his life time, the entire environs of Maryland was synonymous with him.

In fact, there is even a Yoruba song that acknowledged his divinity claim despite not quite accepting of the claim which goes thus:

Emi o mo Jesu Oyingbo,
Emi o mo Jesu Agege,
Emi o mo Guru Maharaji,
Jesu ti mo mo l'apata ayeraye!!!

I don't know Jesus of Oyingbo,
I don't know Jesus of Agege,
I don't know Guru Maharji,
The Jesus that I know is the rock of ages!

Funny, that song seem to have died with Jesu Oyingbo

Thanks for reading.

No, I think I heard the song in church some months back.

MrPresident1:


Expatiate

Promise me you will never ban me again and I will erase this quote.

I dey suspect you

English is my third language

Ishilove:

You must be macof's brother

Yeah.
Kindred spirits think alike.

Come hither,... kindred spirit.

plaetton:


Yeah.
Kindred spirits think alike.

Come hither,... kindred spirit.

Be careful what you wish for

Ishilove:

Be careful what you wish for

And you should be careful of what you don't wish for.

honor2011:
3. Joseph Di Mambro and Luc Jouret: Founded a murderous doomsday cult
In October 1994, Di Mambro and Jouret, along with 51 of their followers in the Order of the Solar Temple, an apocalyptic cult founded in Europe in 1984, committed suicide or were murdered in Switzerland and Quebec, Canada. The deaths of Di Mambro and Jouret didn’t bring an end to the violence: In December 1995, 16 more members took their own lives or were killed in France, while an additional five committed suicide in March 1997 in Quebec.

Di Mambro, a shadowy figure born in France in 1924, founded the Order of the Solar Temple and made the charismatic Jouret, a homeopathic doctor born in 1947 in the Belgian Congo (present-day Democratic Republic of the Congo), the organization’s public face. The secretive group was believed to have members in Canada, Switzerland, France, Australia and other countries, and Jouret preached about impending environmental disasters and the coming end of the world, along with a belief system that combined elements of New Age philosophy, Christianity and astrology, among other things.

Following the October 1994 deaths of the 53 sect members, whose bodies were discovered at Solar Temple properties that had been set on fire in Cheiry and Les Granges sur Salvan, Switzerland, and Morin Heights, Quebec, investigators estimated at least 30 of the dead had been murdered—either shot or asphyxiated. It was suspected some had been killed because they were considered traitors for criticizing the group’s leaders. The following year, after 16 Solar Temple members were found dead in a forest in southeastern France, investigations again concluded not all had died willingly. The five Solar Temple members who committed suicide in 1997 left a note indicating they believed their lives would continue on a new planet.

more pls