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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Subsidy Removal; The way out (16220 Views)
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Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 10:49am On Jun 12, 2015 |
"Don’t misquote me: I said the Central Bank of Nigeria and the Federal Ministry of Finance have complementary roles but the CBN is independent. But of course there is coordination".......Okonjo Iweala Gentlemen!! does the above statement sound like someone who was "oblivious" that the naira will be devalued? why will a sane person be distracting me with whose office did it than looking at what the Minister could have done to protect us from the Liabilities of the devaluation? CBN devalued the naira under her watch, she did absolutely nothing to protect the FG from the liabilities of the devaluation, is that not an inefficiency? An inefficiency that Nigeria will spend N200b for nothing? Phase 1 of the plan is still in play!! I welcome other sane and objective criticisms. 1 Like |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 11:00am On Jun 12, 2015 |
baralatie: Why will you want to suffer people when there are things you are not doing right? the subsidy regimen as it is today is not sustainable, no doubt about that, so, it is not a question of whether subsidy will go but a question of "how will subsidy go"? The outright removal of AGO subsidy brought some latent issues for consideration. Most people who push for outright removal have failed to see that subsidy plays two functions; 1) Lower energy cost 2) consumer protection. Any plan or model, that ignores any of those points above will spell disaster for Nigerians. 3 Likes |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by baralatie(m): 11:37am On Jun 12, 2015 |
jpphilips:okay! I get your part of the model but the issue of consumer protection should be the CBC(consumer protection board). it could be enlarged and have increased powers to supervise the protection of the consumer end |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 12:20pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
before 1998, the Russian govt banks guarantee LOCs for imports whether subsidized or not, due to the devaluation, the government made a paradigm shift and left LOC'S for commercial banks........Jp philips Kabonic reads then interprete thus; The government of Russia guaranteed LOCs (which means they incurred all liabilities)....Kabonic Pretty obvious comprehension is a very big problem for a lot of people |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 12:33pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
baralatie: That is where outright removal (deregulation) is a bit tricky, once you deregulate, the government will lose control completely, does the government tell phone sellers at Computer village how to sell their goods? But this is energy we are talking about, the "racketeering" and "cabalism" will never allow a free market after deregulation hence it is not in the interest of the people. The only protection we have in the downstream sector is subsidy, it just has to be phased out not removed outrightly. |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 12:58pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
I can't join issues with Nebo till I am convinced beyond reasonable doubt, pipeline operations are not done in the moon, if Nebo can see vandalized gas pipelines, why not me? does he have a special eye?.....jp philips Kabnonic reads and interprete thus; why do you think it is the minister of power that replaces(or is responsible for replacing vandalized pipelines)?.....Kabnonic |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by baralatie(m): 1:01pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
jpphilips:that is the problem,partial subsidy of petroleum as at now is killing govt and even the cabals can see it can't be sustained. a system has to be structure to negate "racketeering",what if a price structure and control regime is in place through a governing council (e.g. like what is been practiced under telecoms) |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 1:10pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Can you brief us further the experience of NECONDE where they have operated such assets to justify the transfer. ....Jp philips Kaboninc replies NECONDE is a consortium of 3 (4) companies:.....Kabnonic It is clear I was dealing with an individual with class A comprehension deficiency |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 1:16pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
baralatie: Point of correction, the cabals want subsidy removed more than Nigerians want it, the Jonathan's administration sold us a dummy during the 2012 crisis!! The telecom model will not work because Petroleum products are essential commodities, once you remove subsidy, you cannot decide for the cabal what to sell, so you have left yourself vulnerable to price fixing, hoarding and other forms of economic sabotage, that was what we saw in AGO. with a subsidy regimen, the government can easily intervene, it got so bad that even the Government's products are stored in the tank farms of the same cabal, so once they down tools, the government is trapped. just one example of such inefficiencies that phase 1 will address. 1 Like |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 1:22pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
In 1998, Russia devalued the ruble, a move necessitated by a global fall in crude prices (you wont say it is apple vs oranges right?), some measures were taken and one of it was, govt banks stopped issuing LOC's for importers,..........Jp philips Kabnonic replies; Firstly, government banks do not issue LOCs to our local importers. The private banks do and that was why the importers insisted on being paid before taking any orders......Kabnonic Abeg, una fit ask this man, which Government was I referring to? it is clearer what this guy's problem is |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 1:27pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Mention one country in the world with proven gas reserves like Nigeria, practising the DSO model? concise and succinct please!!.....Jp Philips Kabnonic replies; DSO is designed in preference to the Nigerian local companies. Specific gas quantity must be distributed (or sold) locally before exported. Also, the demand for gas in Nigeria is steadily increasing.......Kabnonic Sorry bro!! |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by baralatie(m): 1:33pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
jpphilips:as long as it is this subsidy,govt will groan! 1 Like |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 1:40pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
NPDC oil production will no longer be part of the Nigerian JV oil controlled by senate approved budgetary benchmark....jp philips Kabnonic replies The Nigerian JV structure is not subject to any Senate approval/vetting. Maybe from the President through the Minister,.....Kabnonic Acute comprehension problem is the reason we have been going in circles! |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 1:44pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
baralatie: Major economic changes are not done overnight, there must be a blueprint for subsidy removal, there should be a vision and direction where the government is headed, groaning or not, is immaterial here; How long do you think it took America to reduce if not remove their dependence on foreign oil can you guess? |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by kaboninc(m): 1:51pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
jpphilips: I wonder if am speaking to a sane fellow. This is your own statement: some measures were taken and one of it was, govt banks stopped issuing LOC's for importers, it is routed through private banks who bear the brunt of its Liability solely I even thought that you have brains sef. Why I kept on hammering on the subject of Russian Government's interference in the devaluation of the currency was because I thought you were of average inteligence. Alas, you are not. You kept bringing up "govt banks stopped issuing LOC's for importers, but rather the LOCs were routed through private banks" as indicated up there shows how shallow you are. For the record, the Russian Government "owned banks" DID NOT issue any LOC in 1998 for any importers except, of course, it was you! Only the government banks you own issue LOC. I hope you even know what an LOC is. Secondly, the fall of crude oil prices was not the major reason rather it contributed. The spoils of war was the major cost that led to Russian economy crises. Stop deceiving people here. Again, I was never in contention whose job it is to devalue the currency, as the coordinator of the Economy, it wouldn't happen without her knowledge, that i can easily prove. Rubbish! Remember this: jpphilips: You see the bold word, and how your statement is an affirmative statement? So you've turned into a liar now abi or your memory is too short that you forget things so quickly right? Again, when Soludo co ordinated our Economy, Nigeria imported petroleum products, there was not only a drop in crude prices but also an economic meltdown that forced Soludo to devalue the Naira, why did we not pay exchange rate differentials then? Shssssss!!!! Don't let people hear this from you...... Dam.n!! You just hate to learn. Why is it so if I may ask? Soludo at no time CO-ORDINATED our economy. You don't even know the relationship between a drop in crude prices and an economic meltdown! As per if we paid exchange rate differentials, I told you to go read up your books especially on elementary economics. When you do, consider this hint: consider the length of time the price of crude was down and the landing cost of PMS within that time. Also consider to price sold at the retail stations. When you do, you come over. Finally, You have danced around NECONDE so badly that I have gotten the information I need, NECONDE as a consortium has no track record whatsoever in oil and gas operations, rather your infinite wisdom is suggesting to Nigerians to manage them because individually they have succeeded elsewhere, I said, it is not acceptable; even if I should agree with your abysmal analysis, the highest stake holder in the NECONDE consortium has only operated a "Marginal oil field" transferred in 2013 and he is not operating it alone, there is no proof that the oil field is successful, hence the phase 4 of the plan is still in play. I laugh at you. Why because you reasoning is shallow. Not deep and may never be deep! It is a fact. A Special Purpose Vehicle (Neconde) was set up to acquire a stake in a project. In assessing the capabilities, technicalities and soundness of the SPV, do you dwell on the SPV as an entity, as you are currently doing with Neconde? Or the parties that formed the SPV? As an analogy, what is the pedigree of Ikeja Electricity Distribution Company? or Transmission Company of Nigeria, of Seplat Energy (as at 2011)? Again, you are not any were close to average intelligence. You also do not have a damn idea why DSO for gas is a bad model, never mind that you could not point to a single country with proven gas reserves as much as Nigeria practicing it. Brother, I wish you could tell us how bad the DSO model is for gas in Nigeria. Hint: For the fact other countries practice a particular policy doesn't mean it can work in ours! |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by netotse(m): 5:02pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
@jpphilips I'm still waiting for your comments on gas |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 6:00pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
[quote author=kaboninc post=34696203] Why I kept on hammering on the subject of Russian Government's interference in the devaluation of the currency was because I thought you were of average inteligence. Alas, you are not. You kept bringing up "govt banks stopped issuing LOC's for importers, but rather the LOCs were routed through private banks" as indicated up there shows how shallow you are. class A comprehension deficiency, it took you 2 weeks to get the point I made on in one paragraph, I wonder how many years it will take you to understand phase 1 to 6 Secondly, the fall of crude oil prices was not the major reason rather it contributed. The spoils of war was the major cost that led to Russian economy crises. Stop deceiving people here. Another comprehension deficiency, who asked you this? what has it got to do with the discussion? what relevance does it have on this thread? The ones you were asked left you confused and now this? stop overwhelming your brain, or you got confused after typing the first paragraph? you cannot even right to the point when given an opportunity, damn!! you are worse than I thought. Shssssss!!!! Don't let people hear this from you...... Obasanjo was his own coordinating minister of the economy and chairman of the economic management team— which he chaired for 90 minutes every week. I met with him daily. In other words, he did not outsource economic management. 4b. Chairman/Coordinator, Drafting Committee for Nigeria’s reform programme under President Obasanjo, called “National Economic Empowerment and Development Strategy (NEEDS)” You don't even know the relationship between a drop in crude prices and an economic meltdown! As per if we paid exchange rate differentials, I told you to go read up your books especially on elementary economics. When you do, consider this hint: consider the length of time the price of crude was down and the landing cost of PMS within that time. Also consider to price sold at the retail stations. When you do, you come over. Comprehension deficiency, please can someone explain to him what I asked him Imagine someone I asked this question" Again, when Soludo co ordinated our Economy, Nigeria imported petroleum products, there was not only a drop in crude prices but also an economic meltdown that forced Soludo to devalue the Naira, why did we not pay exchange rate differentials then? Here comes his response; You don't even know the relationship between a [b]drop in crude prices and an economic meltdown! As per if we paid exchange rate differentials, I told you to go read up your books especially on elementary economics. When you do, consider this hint: consider the length of time the price of crude was down and the landing cost of PMS within that time. Also consider to price sold at the retail stations. When you do, you come over. Mr confusion, no vex, how much means say a figure in monetary terms. How can I ask someone how much was paid, instead of mentioning a figure or at the very least admit he doesn't know, he rants a full useless paragraph for nothing. I laugh at you. Why because you reasoning is shallow. Not deep and may never be deep! It is a fact. Finally, someone has admitted that NECONDE as a consortium has no pedigree, based on this unanimous admittance, phase four is proposed to return all those assets back to NPDC, you see how easy it is, once you answer a question directly without sermon, a solution is never far fetched!! Brother, I wish you could tell us how bad the DSO model is for gas in Nigeria. Did you notice that it took you almost 2 weeks to come up to speed with some elements in my subsidy proposal? imagine what will happen if I add DSO to your imbroglio, I fear you may end up with stroke!! For safety reasons, the subsidy removal plan has already overwhelmed your brain, you need six months to practise comprehension, as soon as I am satisfied you have the mental capacity to handle DSO, then I will open a thread specially for that. The way you are going, you may end up in a mental shock!! I cant be held responsible for that, I am glad that phase 1 to 4 is within your grasp, when someone who understands 5&6 joins the conversation, you may learn a thing or two. TGIF *cobana* 1 Like |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 6:06pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
netotse: DSO for gas has been treated on several threads here; you may rejuvenate any of those threads https://www.nairaland.com/1156241/434mw-geregu-power-plant-begin/4#13820594 I dont want this thread derailed, here is for subsidy removal alone cheers!! |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by kaboninc(m): 8:22pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
jpphilips: You more fool.ish than I thought. You're the worst dumb student I've ever spent my time on. This is your reply on who's the economic co-ordinator: Obasanjo was his own coordinating minister of the economy and chairman of the economic management team— which he chaired for 90 minutes every week. I met with him daily. In other words, he did not outsource economic management. You're daft bro! So who was the economic co-ordinator then? I thought you said it was Soludo? Again, when Soludo co ordinated our Economy, Who wrote that? You're a cow.ard bro! In the text you quoted, Soludo was the Chairman/Cor-ordinator Drafting Committee of the NEEDs programme which in his capacity, he acted as the Chief Economic Adviser. Is the "Chairman/Co-ordinator Drafting Committee" same as "Co-ordinator of the Economy" Mr confusion, no vex, how much means say a figure in monetary terms. How can I ask someone how much was paid, instead of mentioning a figure or at the very least admit he doesn't know, he rants a full useless paragraph for nothing. Student, I didn't answer that question because in the first place, it was a wrong question. You've even admitted that Soludo did not co-ordinate our economy even for one second. So why waste my resource in replying your si.lly question? Finally, someone has admitted that NECONDE as a consortium has no pedigree, based on this unanimous admittance, phase four is proposed to return all those assets back to NPDC, you see how easy it is, once you answer a question directly without sermon, a solution is never far fetched!! Shssssss!!!! I never admitted to any of your insane posts or claims not even on your sil.ly claim on Neconde. Anyone who reads our conversation will just laugh at you, not because you're funny but because of your ignorance. Did you notice that it took you almost 2 weeks to come up to speed with some elements in my subsidy proposal? imagine what will happen if I add DSO to your imbroglio, I fear you may end up with stroke!! I smiled while reading this. You know why? It shows how exposed you're. It shows the degree and extent to which you reason. It exposes how shallow your knowledge of basic policies - how they are drafted and implemented - work. How many peeps are gracing your thread? |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by kaboninc(m): 8:33pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
jpphilips: Sharrap there!!!! What was the dummy sold during Jonathan's administration? The telecom model will not work because Petroleum products are essential commodities, once you remove subsidy, you cannot decide for the cabal what to sell, so you have left yourself vulnerable to price fixing, hoarding and other forms of economic sabotage, that was what we saw in AGO. Hmmmm. Someone tell this lazy student to go read his books. Are we not witnessing price-fixing, hoardings and other forms of economic sabotage even when there's subsidy in place? with a subsidy regimen, the government can easily intervene, it got so bad that even the Government's products are stored in the tank farms of the same cabal, so once they down tools, the government is trapped. With a subsidy regime (not regimen), the government is expected to easily intervene when you're strongly canvassing for the removal of subsidy? Are these two statements not contradictory? Do you just write without knowing what you've written? Who ever listens to you or take you seriously is on a roller coaster ride to El-Dorado. |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by Aura2(f): 6:15pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
kaboninc: jpphilips: Are you saying Nigeria had no one who was co ordinating the Economy under Obasanjo? I can deduce you even said it started with Jonathan, please clear this area!! |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by Aura2(f): 6:20pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
kaboninc: Regimen is correct, you may look it up in the dictionary, I can see you are forcing yourself to appear smart. no offence! ! 2 Likes |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by quiet006storm: 6:50pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
Here's something to make you laugh this weekend. http://bolanlesnuptialtales..com/2015/06/caption-this.html |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by kaboninc(m): 9:26pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
Aura2: Don't you think you should prove me wrong by providing the name of who co-ordinated the economy during Obasanjo's regime? |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by kaboninc(m): 9:32pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
Aura2: reg·i·men - /ˈrejəmən/ re·gime - /rəˈZHēm,rāˈZHēm/ So Aura, use you brain effectively and if you don't have something meaningful to contribute, get the last seat! |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by kaboninc(m): 9:40pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
Aura2:So you're the alter ego of jpphilips abi? You better keep yourself somewhere safe. |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by Aura2(f): 10:59pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
kaboninc: This is what my dictionary said; ""ANY REGULATION OR REMEDY WHICH IS INTENDED TO PRODUCE BENEFICIAL EFFECTS BY GRADUAL OPERATION"". which one do you use? 1 Like |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by Rad1cal: 11:01pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
Jpphilips totally damaged beyond repair. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahah 1 Like |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by Aura2(f): 11:02pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
kaboninc: Is that how you reason? you decide what you should be asked? You want a name for a portfolio you believe do not exist? ? 1 Like |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by jpphilips(m): 11:22pm On Jun 13, 2015 |
Rad1cal: How old are you? ? 3 Likes |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by mcino: 1:18am On Jun 14, 2015 |
If this discussion is something to rely on, I think the guy called Kaboninc is a genius. I respect his analysis. But it doesn't worth it. jpphilips: |
Re: Subsidy Removal; The way out by Rad1cal: 3:49am On Jun 14, 2015 |
1 Like |
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