Katsumoto:

But when everyone shifts production to Asia, US workers become unemployed and consume less. Isn't that why the US is still in a rut? And what has happened to all those companies that moved abroad to make a quick buck? How many of them are bouyant currently? Asian buyers are mainly into luxury items.

Well I as a manufacturer cannot be the one to stimulate employment myself. I don't think the cause and effect works out quite the way you imply. Everyone is trying to cut down on costs and thus make more money.

Jenifa_:

even the companies that are not outsourcing are increasingly using H1b1 workers 'cause they're cheaper, can be recycled and can't form unions.

I cannot talk in general about all industries. But in the tech sector, talent is at a premium. I think the unemployment rate in this sector (at least where I live) is like 2 or 3%. So there is a scarcity of talent.

The H1-B visa program is an excellent way for the US to grab more talent from other countries. Do such people tend to be cheaper? Yes. But that doesn't mean they are inferior. They work hard and are generally as bright if not brighter than your typical American tech worker. A H1-B guy from one of the IITs (India Institute of Technology) is going to be quite a bit smarter, harder-working, and more efficient at his job than your average American dude.

Not sure what you mean by "recycled." Also not sure what the relevance of "union" is in this context. At least in tech, I don't know of any unionization (and don't see the need for it.)

ekt_bear:

Well I as a manufacturer cannot be the one to stimulate employment myself. I don't think the cause and effect works out quite the way you imply. Everyone is trying to cut down on costs and thus make more money.

I cannot talk in general about all industries. But in the tech sector, talent is at a premium. I think the unemployment rate in this sector (at least where I live) is like 2 or 3%. So there is a scarcity of talent.

So it isn't a coincidence that with outsourcing and moving production to Asia, the US consumer has become poorer while the Asian consumer has gotten richer?

The US can not survive on the Service industry alone; it is too big. As a country, Silicon Valley would do very well but unfortunately, silicon valley alone can not sustain the US. The backbone of the US was manufacturing together with Services.

First, the US consumer has not gotten poorer. Their wealth might have increased more slowly than the Asians, but this doesn't mean they are getting absolutely poorer.

Second, it isn't Silicon Valley's job to create jobs for the rest of America.

I do agree that services alone aren't likely to sustain this country. So who knows, maybe in the long-term we are fvcked. But less fvcked than Europe, I expect 

On a serious note though, this was sort of inevitable. Manufacturing simply makes no sense in America because costs are too high relative to China. Eventually manufacturing will be too expensive in China too and it'll shift over to other countries.

Who knows, maybe one day Africa will become the factory of the world the way that China is today

Anyway, I don't know what the answer to America's problems are. But saying, "Oh, you guys should keep your factories in the US despite the fact that you'd make more money if they were overseas" is not likely to be a good solution.

@ekt-bear,

nobody said they were inferior.
just as a dell computer or GAP sweatshirt made in Taiwan is not necessarily inferior to made in America. just made by cheaper labor that's all.

big companies are more partial to h1b1 workers. put two identical resumes in front of the employer and they will pick the H1b1 due to lower costs for the company. and the thing about talent is not entirely true. Many of them are performing labor that  sometimes anybody without a degree could perform. lol  all that's needed is a few weeks or months training (that everyone gets anyway).
in fact, their "talent" comes from the experience they get at these jobs.  many do not start out as skilled. they become skilled on the job.


the catch for the H1b1 worker is that after 2yrs, there is a high chance that their visas won't get renewed and they are forced to return to their respective countries. lol they will then be replaced by fresh H1b1 workers this is what I mean by 'recycled' labor.  "replaced" is a better word lol although some are able to go on to other companies and higher positions with their now improved resumes and skills.

this topic title is misleading in that sense. many don't go back willingly. they are forced to go back.
I have friends and acquaintances doing IT and finance with investment and commercial banks and my opinion is based on their experiences
 but i'm sure it's just one perspective and not the entire picture.

@ekt bear, how do u think Germany is doing it?

greed is everywhere but usually the govt should get involved if the corporate greed is threatening to state well being.
but that can't happen in US because the companies have bought over the capitol with their lobbyists.

Talking about manufacturing, why does a toothbrush made in China sell almost at the same price with toothpaste made in USA at the same store? There is no way GE Capttal should be making more money than all other GE units combined.

adconline:

Talking about manufacturing, why does a toothbrush made in China sell almost at the  same price with toothpaste made in USA at the same store? There is no way GE Capttal  should be making more money than all other GE units combined.

yup. if a US company made the toothbrushes, then the quality shouldn't be different. it's d same material and procedure afterall.
the price will be different because US workers are paid higher salary and benefits. while foreign laborers are paid very little. also taxes (and other regulation costs) are higher in US.  u have to factor this into it.

Apart from Mac, I cant think of any reliable technological product made by Americans.


What else is there?


Would radio count as one?

Jenifa_:



big companies are more partial to h1b1 workers.

Very moronic way to think. You mean the president of Citigroup got to where he is because big companies like Merrill Lynch and Citigroup were partial to him?

Are you trying to suggest that the data like the one below is wrong? or skewed in favor of immigrants?

"We uncovered some puzzling data in the World Intellectual Property Organization database, which is the starting point for obtaining global intellectual property protection. In 2006, foreign nationals residing in the United States were named as inventors or co-inventors in an astounding 25.6 percent of patent applications filed from the United States, a substantial increase from 7.6 percent in 1998. Foreign nationals also contributed to a majority of some U.S. companies' patent applications, including Qualcomm—72 percent, Merck—65 percent, GE—64 percent, and Cisco—60 percent. More than 40 percent of the U.S. government-filed international patent applications had foreign authors. These numbers did not include immigrants who had become citizens at the time of filing."


". . .This is even most troubling when you consider that 47 percent of all U.S. science and engineering workers with doctorates are immigrants as were 67 percent of the additions to the U.S. science and engineering work force between 1995 to 2006. And roughly 60 percent of engineering Ph.D. students and 40 percent of master’s students are foreign nationals."

put two identical resumes in front of the employer and they will pick the H1b1 due to lower costs for the company.

Are you talking about the same America? So employers pay people based on their FOB-ness? You must be drunk

and the thing about talent is not entirely true. Many of them are performing labor that  sometimes anybody without a degree could perform. lol

Obviously you are focusing on just one aspect. Open your mind and think of other fields. When I hear talent, science and engineering comes to my mind. How many of you guys are doing Science and Engineering?  How many Akatas are in the science and Engineering field? And how many Whites are doing great in Maths?

in fact, their "talent" comes from the experience they get at these jobs.  many do not start out as skilled. they become skilled on the job.

Not really. their talent comes from their superior thinking skills, resourcefulness and industriousness.

It comes from being able to make something out of nothing and out-competing natives in their own environment and doing better than them on standardized exams. Again, open your mind, and next time you hear talent, think IT, Science, Engineering, Medicine, pharmacy, and Nursing, not just Wall street and mindless internships at  shyyty places like Peace corp, Habitat for humanity etc.

Ileke-IdI:

Apart from Mac, I cant think of any reliable technological product made by Americans.


What else is there?


Would radio count as one?

I guess in your deluded world, your Ekiti bros made PCs and Detroit cars among others

Ileke-IdI:

Apart from Mac, I cant think of any reliable technological product made by Americans.
What else is there?
Would radio count as one?

this is so true.
it's all planned obsolescence.

even mac sef, it's as if u have to buy a new one every year. if it's not snowleopard, it's lion or tiger. don't know if it's d advertising.

^^^ So, No reliable technology that is going to advance in the next 10 yrs (No future for American technologies). That could be one of the reason why SI leave America.

they are advancing. but they intentionally sell you crappy products so you can buy a new one everyyear as soon as the warranty runs out.
that's how they make money

what's the point of selling products that will last a lifetime. then nobody will be buying new products and they will run out of business.

adconline:

Talking about manufacturing, why does a toothbrush made in China sell almost at the  same price with toothpaste made in USA at the same store? There is no way GE Capttal  should be making more money than all other GE units combined.

Some products like that with the same function will sell the same price.
I've never thought to look at where items like toothbrushes were made.
And why would I spend more on toothbrush just because it came from China? They perform the same function.

However, products like Laptops comes in varieties, reasonable varieties. Unlike, how many brushes one toothbrush has compared to another.

Jenifa_:

they are advancing. but they intentionally sell you crappy products so you can buy a new one everyyear as soon as the warranty runs out.
that's how they make money

what's the point of selling products that will last a lifetime. then nobody will be buying new products and they will run out of business.

That thing is kinda iffy. Macs promise us that their laptops will last a long time, yet they come out with new "updates" every month. Well, Americans fall for that scam sha.

Seriously, kini warranty? Never look into that thing sha. I've cracked and lost a few laptops, but their warranty never seems to work. That thing is a scam

LOL

tbh Ileke-Idi and Jenifa are chatting crap. I am being fair here though not trolling.


Especially the H1B stuff killed me man.

SEFAGO:

LOL

tbh Ileke-Idi and Jenifa are chatting crap. I am being fair here though not trolling.


Especially the H1B stuff killed me man.

Did you see that?

I was shocked too. And ileke was talking about MAC and crappp. They are killing me here!

Long time bro!

warranty works depending on how you damaged the laptop. if it's visible cracks they won't replace it. because they say it's your fault.
i've gotten a battery replaced before though. and a charger.

SEFAGO:

LOL
tbh Ileke-Idi and Jenifa are chatting crap. I am being fair here though not trolling.
Especially the H1B stuff killed me man.

so, genius, can you clarify stuff for us then.

I dunno, at least they show an interest. Misconceptions can quickly be corrected.

Better than 99% of humans who don't care and thus will remain misinformed.

arsenefc:

Did you see that?

I was shocked too. And ileke was talking about MAC and crappp. They are killing me here!

Long time bro!

Man Naija girls love being stoopid. Instead of just keeping quiet and learning. Imagine saying H1B people are not skilled. Odikwa risky sha.

Yeah I just saw the Mac thingy.

We thank God for freedom of speech.

Man busy as hell. I only come on Nairaland to laugh at people  

Seriously, kini warranty? Never look into that thing sha. I've cracked and lost a few laptops, but their warranty never seems to work. That thing is a scam

Sweetheart warranty is for physical damage and most warranty dont cover lost laptops/thefts- that would be insurance babes.

Just suck on my kondo and keep quiet please

choi see these boys o.

even u ekt-bear?

I'm not saying you are wrong. My point is, whether wrong or right, at least you are interesting in discussing the topic and learning more.

Some of these things, the answers aren't clear cut at all (does shifting manufacturing over to China hurt you in the long run? What should the US do in response to loss of manufacturing? What is the impact of H1-Bs on the US economy?) On those things, not even obvious to me that anyone is "right" or "wrong". . . mostly just educated guesses.

Jenifa_:

choi see these boys o.

even u ekt-bear?

Are you sucking his dyck? Or what makes you think he is here to baby sit you and overlook your arrant stupidity.

SEFAGO:

Man Naija girls love being stoopid. Instead of just keeping quiet and learning.

you are the senseless one.


Like I said, it's one perspective.  pls tell us yours.

ekt_bear:

I'm not saying you are wrong. My point is, whether wrong or right, at least you are interesting in discussing the topic and learning more.

Some of these things, the answers aren't clear cut at all (does shifting manufacturing over to China hurt you in the long run? What should the US do in response to loss of manufacturing? What is the impact of H1-Bs on the US economy?) On those things, not even obvious to me that anyone is "right" or "wrong". . . mostly just educated guesses.

doens't change d fact that his comments were clearly sexist and ur response was "at least they are interested in discussing the topic"
wth

yea the effects aren't clear cut but the point is that the companies try to maximize profit sometimes to the detriment of state welfare. u need govt to step in in that case.

again the point is not to bash H1b1. US clearly needs them and they contribute significantly to the economy
it's really to point out companies' greedy motives in these matters.

Jenifa_:

doens't change d fact that his comments were clearly sexist and your response was "at least they are interested in discussing the topic"
wth

Lol I was in no way endorsing his statement. Maybe I should have condemned it more. I think it is clear he is just screwing around though. Don't take him too seriously imo

The misogynist thing is probably (well, hopefully) just a NL shtick

^^^

Jenifa_:

again the point is not to bash H1b1. US clearly needs them and they contribute significantly to the economy
it's really to point out companies' greedy motives in these matters.

You like embarrassing yourself here on NL.  Just stick with romance and life on Nl wouldnt be  so hard for you. This is obviously way above your tiny, little brain.

Come su/-ck my cream and I assure you your IQ shall be at least 50 points higher than you started with. Money back guarantee

Jenifa_:

again the point is not to bash H1b1. US clearly needs them and they contribute significantly to the economy
it's really to point out companies' greedy motives in these matters.

Not really these folks are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than you and your ilk.


Education for education, investment for investment, ediots like you and your friends are no match for these guys.

^what a fool

I hear u @ekt-bear.

Regarding corporate greed, that is just the culture of the world. Well, at least America, let me put it that way.

If you don't try to make as much money as possible, your stock will be punished, investors will be unhappy, people will write mean things about you

I don't know if you noticed how Apple didn't make the analyst's earnings prediction on Tuesday (but increased their profit by like 50%+), and their stock got pounded (lost about 5% of its value.)

This is a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog world. Only the strong survive