I see no sense arguing with facts!!!!!!!!!

@sam-carlos,
Sir, what are those fact you don't want to argue about? However, it will be worthy of note to understand that we are not here to argue but to share the little knowledge which we have with others. 

what if God is Omniscience in the sense that He knows all possible choices anybody can make at any given time and all the possible consequences of these choices? viewed from this point i dont see a conflict between Gods Omniscience and our free will.

@KDK, Lafile's point somehow explains what I was trying to say. The only way you could've made the point even in Alex's red ball/black ball issue is if God influenced His actions. Just like a puppeteer (sp)pulling the strings of a puppet. If He does, then there's no freewill. If there's no freewill then you might be opening many can of worms. It may range from that God destined some folks to go to hell, to the extent that even God's is evil, wicked or partial.

God is All-seeing, All-kNowing and All-hearing

Thatz right Nuru, the poster of this thread actually has a point but it takes ministration from the Holyspirit to understand these facts of the Bible.

SEUN
i dont believe or think you should allow such comments on this forum.in as much as we are permitted to say some certian things we feel like saying on this forum.i also think that there should be a LIMIT TO IT .
THE BIBLE MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS CLEAR AND EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT STILL CLEAR TO THAT IGNORANT USER FOR POSTING SUCH THING.HOW COME HE ONLY SEES THOSE PARTS IN THE BIBLE.ARE YOU TRYTING TO REDICULE JEHOVA!!!!! I WOULD ADVISE YOU NEVER GO THERE AGAIN

EVEN THE devil himself KNOWS THE SCRIPTURES,BUT HE CAN NEVER EVER MEDITATE UPON IT.
MY FRIEND THE WORD OF GOD! IS NOT FOR YOU  TO  CONDEMM OR TO JUDGE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE WISE MEN WHOM LIVED B4 YOU WERE BORN

A WORD IS ENOUGH FOR THE ONE WHOM CHOSE TO BE WISE

@Wendell, About selective omniscience, are you referring to when he forgives sin and chooses not to remember them anymore? I think you might be treading on the part of heresy here saying God is not omnipresent. You'd probably support it by saying He's not in hell and other stuff like that? Well, don't let me jump the gun and wait to hear what to you've to say. Just remember David's response in Psalms. Where could I go from your presence, etc
Also, I take issues with you equating Jesus with the prophets.
For the faithful men didn't automatically make it to heaven quote, I have an idea what you are going to say but let me wait.
Anyway, I dey wait sha.

K2,
To buttress the point of the non- intersection of free-will and omniscience, let us use this example:

If God is omniscient, it means HE knows all things before they happen, while they happen and after they've happened right?

The omniscience of God means He has a foreknowledge of everything before they happen. So, if we place 2 balls (Red and Black) in front of  Alex and we ask Alex to choose one. Since God is Omniscient, it means He already knows the ball that Alex will choose even before He chose it, right? So if Alex chooses the black ball, it means God already knows he will choose the black ball meaning that Alex would not have chosen the Red ball, would he? If indeed Alex chose the red ball, it would mean God is not omniscient but since God Is omniscient, there is just no way Alex would have chosen the Red ball. If there is no way Alex would have chosen the red ball, it means there was no free-will given to Alex.
The two concepts – (i) Omniscience and (ii) human freedom – seem to be utterly incompatible. The challenge, then, is to find a way to show that either
(1) omniscience does not exist; or
(2) free will does not exist; or
(3) the alleged illogical relation between omniscience and the exercise of free will is mistaken (i.e. omniscience is not incompatible with the exercise of free will).

This has been the problems that bible scholars have faced over the ages.

 
@KDK
Everything begins and ends in the mind. Beyond the human mind, nothing exists. Everything REAL to us is totally defined by perspective,  In otherwords, Reality is subjective. To them that believe in God, He exists,  and to them that don't, He exists not. Moreso, the extent to which He is real (and powerful) depends on the extent of belief. Outside the christian-world, things could be defined in a hundred different ways. For instance I came across a question presented as: if man is just matter made of atoms, and there is only "random" reactions at the quantum (sub-atomic) level, how then could it not be that man is made of organised chaos?,  Bring God into it and the equation changes.

Man can know nothing. Absolute "knowledge" is an illusion,  created from extreme belief. Like I said, the extent to which something is real depends on the extent to which it is beieved.

Man labels God incomprehensible. Yet knows most His qualities. The mere fact that He is known to be incomprehensible renders him comprensible. But different believers with different "amounts" of faith are involved so expect contradictions and interpretations of sorts.

All I say in essense is; this "ominipotence/free-will" depends on perspective. What do I mean? Let us say I believe there is no such thing as free-will, maybe because I think man is a vacumn without his environment, this arguement cannot hold -- and likewise for anyone that might have a different definition of "free-will" or "omini-potence". So maybe the smartest thing to do before we proceed is to come to agreement with a particular definition of terms.

Deliverance!Deliverance!Deliverance!
HOLY GHOST FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a puzzling question to ask, a very controversial and intricate one, it has left my friend and i puzzled. Hear it goes:-

We all agree that God knows the end from the beginning, aight? He also knows what Mr. A and sundry will end up. If he does, does that mean he knows if Mr. A will go to hell and no matter how hard he tries he'll surely make hell.


KDK, K2 and others in the house I'm counting on you.

I have a puzzling question to ask, a very controversial and intricate one, it has left my friend and i puzzled. Hear it goes:-

We all agree that God knows the end from the beginning, aight? He also knows what Mr. A and sundry will end up. If he does, does that mean he knows if Mr. A will go to hell and no matter how hard he tries he'll surely make hell.


KDK, K2 and others in the house I'm counting on you.

I have a puzzling question to ask, a very controversial and intricate one, it has left my friend and i puzzled. Hear it goes:-

We all agree that God knows the end from the beginning, aight? He also knows where Mr. A and sundry will end up. If he does, does that mean he knows if Mr. A will go to hell and no matter how hard he tries he'll surely make hell.


KDK, K2 and others in the house I'm counting on you.

GOD have mercy!!!!!!!HOLY GHOST FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please note:
We must not all belong to the same faith. God forbid that it shall be so.
Let each one read in between the lines and understand that it was not so programmed for mankind. For universal peace to reign, just add this and that in truth and be yourself when called upon.

Charles
charleomo@yahoo.co.uk

God KNOWS everything. If you think about it from a human point of view, It would be illogical instead of posting anything, Why not pray for understanding ( I am assuming you r a christian)

Normally I wouldn't have digified you with an answer because you come out sounding all critical and stuff. In short if you have any question ask God and he will answer. God KNOWS everything. If you think about it from a human point of view, It would be kinda stupid instead of posting anything, Why not pray for understanding ( I am assuming you r a christian). The fact that God allows something to happen does not mean he did not know it was going to happen. Besides if you read your bible well you will know that the BOOK OF LIFE has already been written before the foundation of the earth!!!!!!! and besides Elisha and Enoch if you read your bible with understanding from GOD you will know they are coming back in the time of the anti-christ to die ie ( the prophets killed bodies left on the street and rose up after 3 days).

"what if God is Omniscience in the sense that He knows all possible choices anybody can make at any given time and all the possible consequences of these choices? viewed from this point i don't see a conflict between Gods Omniscience and our free will."


@ k2 and Lafile,
I will go back to my illustration of Alex and the 2 balls. What you guys are saying is that God is omniscient in the sense that he knows the consequences of Alex choosing a black/Red ball but can not tell for sure which ball Alex will choose.
If you guys say that God can tell the consequences of each potential choice made by Alex but can not tell what exact choice Alex will make ( because Alex has free will) then I must conclude that you are indirectly saying that God is not omniscient because he can not tell what Choice Alex will make,am I right? In other words you guys are saying God is only prescient because he knows the outcome of choices but not omniscient because he can't tell what choice Alex will make since Alex has a freewill. (I stand to be corrected).
I hope with your own line of argument, you have been able to understand what bible scholars over the years have come to agree upon that omniscience and freewill has no meeting point. You just have to choose one of the two (either that man has freewill or God is omniscient) or better still, the 3 option which was included in my earlier post [(3) the alleged illogical relation between omniscience and the exercise of free will is mistaken (i.e. omniscience is not incompatible with the exercise of free will)].

God bless you all.


@ kpofkpof & izoneb,
you guys crack me up. Where it not that I knew the answer, I would have taken off myself like you guys.

suave:

I have a puzzling question to ask, a very controversial and intricate one, it has left my friend and i puzzled. Hear it goes:-

We all agree that God knows the end from the beginning, aight? He also knows what Mr. A and sundry will end up. If he does, does that mean he knows if Mr. A will go to hell and no matter how hard he tries he'll surely make hell.


KDK, K2 and others in the house I'm counting on you.

@ Suave,
The question you asked is what 2 others have asked before you and to be sincere,the answer to this thread is the answer to your question and as such, I implore you to please be patient with us as we test all schools of thought before producing the answer as supported by the bible (which ultimately is the overall reference) because it is written in Galatians 1:8 "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed"

no one knows, im saure only God can answer that my friend, that is if he exists, lol

God exist
God is real
and yes he knows everything

@tru_mic

u don't belive God exist? damn well i don't believe love exist but i sure belive God exist

and well i think its only God that can answer that like he said

This issue has been discussed extensively under the following topic:
Is God Really Omniscient (All-Knowing)?

^{I have always wanted to create this same topic on the forum.}

If viewed, thought and analyzed meticulously, you will see that the omniscient nature of God (by human definition) and the freewill of man contradict in every aspect.

KDK, for once, I think I agree with you here.

So you are now questioning God? You seem to Know the Bible very well, do you not know the part that says that the holyspirit will guide you into all truth. If you really want to Know ask him, he is a great teacher he will guide you to the truth, if you are a genuine seeker. Please dont make fun with the things of God

I have not seen anyone saying outrightly that God is not omniscient and then using the 
" " smiley afterwards.

This is a question asked in simple English.  Is God really omniscient?  If you can explain things to us, please do.  Personally, I'm all ears.  But I begin to get annoyed when I start seeing posts like "Read your Bible", "Pray to God", "Ask the Holy Spirit", etc. 

macalurs, nice post there.

God is omniscient. Because he created and designed it all, It must mean that He knows it all.

Also, He has given man free-will. To make our choices during our sojourn here on earth. Our decisions will determine for us where we spend eternity.

Hence, even though God knows which of us will make it and who wont make, since we are not omniscient, its for us to use our free-will to determine where we end up.

God for-knowing where we end up does not mean that He is the one choosing our destination for us.

I doubt if God will reveal our final destination to us. Even His own son did not take God's omniscience for-granted. He (Jesus) worked out his own distiny by accepting the cross.

Its really that simple. but sometimes we choose to complicate things.

@ Group point,
Sir, you made a very good point.