johnydon22:
[b]Before anybody shouts or plays the victims card here about their own religion, let everybody know that in this post when i say "God" i am not only referring to One deity but to many. Both the Muslim and christian concept will be referred together as God, this is a mind tickling thread and a charge for independent reason.

I have always seen Muslims here threaten a Christian with hell like "Repent and turn to God and his holy prophet Muhammed or burn in hell" Ironically Christians also accord the same favour to them like "You will burn in hell if you don't accept Jesus" and then funny enough both religions too regard atheists to be hell bound and also adherents of other religions.
You see, its not even about being a theist. they all still think you are going to hell either way as long as its not theirs. . Christians still think Muslims are going to hell just like atheist even though Muslims believe in a God and same thing goes the other way round.

Now looking at the idea of HELL, it is ok to point out the heavy influence of greek culture on the new testament. The old testament (Judaic Tenark) knows nothing like a HELL, but the influence of the greek underworld concept TARTARUS gave birth to sickening concept HELL when adopted by the newly emerged religion.

I once told a christian that was preaching to me "The very concept of a HELL, ridicules the idea of a God. It insults it and drags it to a level lower than a human"
One might be thinking my reason for saying this.

I have wooed many girls in my life and if i recall correctly i have never said to any of them "I love you, love me back or i hurt you" any sane mind will see that everything should be wrong in that statement.
The very idea of me hurting her if she doesn't love me back nullifies my confession of love for her.
Take another look at that statement, it is a blackmail and an abusive word. I have threatened her so it is a blackmail, if she doesn't love me back i will hurt her. It is a sheer blackmail giving her two nonsensical choices.

Now this is one of the reasons religious people do not know that they themselves ridicule their God concepts even more than atheists, We have seen everything wrong in the statement i presented above, but then again let us show the very large scaled way this is used.
God says "I love you, if you don't love me back i will burn you in hell forever" Am sure everyone can now see everything wrong in this, it is blackmail, it is blatant abuse and the very sadistic idea of punishing someone because they don't reciprocate your love reveals egoism at a chronic level, it is barbaric as well as it is repulsive and blatantly implausible. Yet they want us to swallow that a perfect being operates within such childish egoism and abusive ways.

Come to think of it, God should be perfect right? Yes Yes God is perfect. God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, He is even omniperfect.
This very idea of perfection is a flaw in the character people have heaped on their different God concepts. Let us see how.

God is perfect, perfection needs nothing. A circle needs nothing added to it to make it 360°. At 360° a circle is perfect and it is impossible to add even 1° and if you take away 1° and makes it 359° it ceases to be a circle.

So God is perfect, God needs nothing, you can never add anything to it neither can you take away, perfection is just perfection.
If this is the case and God is perfect, this surely means such being needs nothing like Worship, reverence, acknowledgement, praise and all these because it is just perfect.
If God is perfect it simply means that all the worship and reverence etc are useless because he doesn't need them, unless you assert it is not perfect then i will agree it needs them to be feed his ego and so feel important.

But religions drag their God concept too low to a level that it needs worship and acknowledgement on daily basis, needs it real bad even threatens people with eternal torture if you fail to give it, this very quality betrays the idea of perfection and drags down the God concept to the state of Egoism, Narcissism, sadism and all round imperfect.....

"Believe i exist and i reward you, disbelieve and i will hurt you so bad forever in an eternal roasting fire" Can abuse and blackmail get any cheaper? You would agree with me an existent powerful and perfect being (if there is even need to) do not need people to be threatening others as to hogwash them into believing it exists, rather it should be able to prove its own existence, isn't it?
This also shows how religions ridicule God and not atheist.

Again, a perfect being should be above hate, anger, jealousy, grief and all, these disturbing emotions are all characteristics of mundane beings like us but if God is perfect it is impossible for such emotions to hold sway on it, it is impossible for it to operate within the confines of these emotions, But the religions are heaping on us God concepts that operate within the confines of such disturbing emotions as Anger, jealousy, hate and even bear grudges with humans and then wrap it under the guise of perfection and expect any right thinking human not to ask questions or refute such ideas! The very acknowledgment of these emotions in a supposedly perfect being kills the idea of perfection and portrays a very imperfect being or should i say concept.
This yet again is another way religions ridicule and insult their God concepts.

It is common knowledge for Christians and Muslims, to claim their holy books are all flawless and perfect without blemish and are the words of the supposedly perfect God who created the universe.
But just a look at the books it shows the skills of mundane men in every inch of it, it depicts the knowledge of ordinary men and claiming such to be from a perfect being ridicules and insults the very intellect of such entity because you would be sure a perfect being would do better.

One cannot help but imagine how the very mythological historical antiquity of a certain set of people (which makes up almost 60% of the bible) is the word of a God, how?
Or the very misogynistic, chauvinistic, barbaric, blood drenched charges as seen in different verses of both the Quran and the Bible connotes a universal deity of a perfect status, That is also an insult to the very being these books claim to belong to.
And this yet again shows how religions insult and ridicule their own God concepts.

Another idea is the chosen race brouhaha, A perfect universal God would choose one people specially over others and you still tag it a universal concept? That is clearly the worst form of racism and such favouritism ideology betrays the very concept was invented by the very people it favours and loves more than others even to the extent of taking their side in wars against others (which allegedly he supposed to have created)think about it, this betrays a huge character flaw and a ridicule to the idea of a universal God and is sheer implausible.

Most people in religions often think it is blasphemy to think or ask questions, in fact i have once thought like that. They are afraid to question God and the disturbing characters it is portrayed to have. As a matter of fact many times this fear effectively keeps most locked up in their respective religions because no one wants to be punished by a perfect but again JEALOUS God.

Many would say: Why do atheist discuss God? It is quite simple, differences in ideologies creates room for healthy discussion, scrutiny of the idea. Atheist might lack belief in the God concepts but the stories are there, we have Hindu books to read brahma stories, bible to read yahweh stories, Quran to read Allah stories and many other deities out there just like we also have J.R.R Tolkien Lord of the rings book to read about Gandalf, one necessarily do not need to BELIEVE Gandalf is real before discussing Gandalf, The discussion is always a call to reason and a charge to allow your mind pour out their questions.

Another would ask: Atheists are afraid of hell!
Lol. . this one is always funny, if an atheist is afraid of hell there is no way he would still be an atheist, not at all....In fact we see hell exactly the way we see children who thinks fairies are real its a very hilarious idea.

Again, this write up is not an attack on any religion either is it meant to insult any, it only remains a stimulus to independent reason, healthy questions unbound by fear. I hope none sees it as an attack to their religion. Man always have been a curious being, Man is not a robot that downloads every data you input into it, man should be able to weigh and compare, scrutinize and even criticize. . so do not be afraid to allow your questions cultivate.

Nothing in life is to be feared only understood, this is the time to understand more so we may fear less... Because a subtle thought in error can give rise to useful enquiry that can establish truth of great value

Buddha once said: Believe nothing, even if you heard it from me. unless it agrees with your own reason.

This shows you are supposed to subject every idea to judgement of your own independent reason. Let go of the fear because there is nothing to fear when using your own brain and judgment.... if i am to go on with ways religions ridicule their own God, i would write on forever but let me stop where i am now.[/b]

joywendy:
I don't like commenting on topics like this, I usually just like or share comments and go away. It not like I don't want to comment but ....

You know you athiest on this forum make it look so easy,how do you expect someone to apply reason to something he/she has been made to believe from childhood and possiblily stand as their strong pillar for their ideals and purpose in life. How?

hahn:



In case you do not understand, please read a again

Lol... Abi

Dekatron:
God(lol) bless u for this, johnny


I wish my course mates could see this & change the way they think and the way they see me as an atheist.

johnydon22:
Lol... Abi

johnydon22:
Lol. . . Yes atheist sometimes expect people to think independently of what they have been indoctrinated to believe since childhood and in these cases we always forget how it is to have a belief because most of us once did before and know how hard the process of untangling oneself is....I must admit it's a mistake on some atheist part.

But then again thats why in this post i mentioned the fear factor that has kept most in religions till today. One muslims scholar once said "Without the killing of apostates there will be no islam today" let us be clear. . "Without the hell factor, the number of Christians and Muslims combined wouldn't amount to a billion"

It is never an easy thing leaving ones mind to cultivate questions that goes against their belief but the emergence of reason is always a very slow and long one.

joywendy:


It's good you admitted that, it took most of you guys years or months to finally be where you are now. Hence tend to forget the kind of effect that religion has on people.

Yes I totally agree with the fear factor but then again I think it would be much better if everyone just minds their business and not try to 'force' their ideologies and beliefs through people's throats.

herald9:

I'll save this and show it to that mountain of fire guy, who wants to convert me by force, telling me I'm too young to go to hell. This guy looks at me with the most pitiful eyes have ever seen, like a convict on death row.

Sometimes I feel like planking sense into his skull.

johnydon22:
[b]Before anybody shouts or plays the victims card here about their own religion, let everybody know that in this post when i say "God" i am not only referring to One deity but to many. Both the Muslim and christian concept will be referred together as God, this is a mind tickling thread and a charge for independent reason.

I have always seen Muslims here threaten a Christian with hell like "Repent and turn to God and his holy prophet Muhammed or burn in hell" Ironically Christians also accord the same favour to them like "You will burn in hell if you don't accept Jesus" and then funny enough both religions too regard atheists to be hell bound and also adherents of other religions.
You see, its not even about being a theist. they all still think you are going to hell either way as long as its not theirs. . Christians still think Muslims are going to hell just like atheist even though Muslims believe in a God and same thing goes the other way round.

Now looking at the idea of HELL, it is ok to point out the heavy influence of greek culture on the new testament. The old testament (Judaic Tenark) knows nothing like a HELL, but the influence of the greek underworld concept TARTARUS gave birth to sickening concept HELL when adopted by the newly emerged religion.

I once told a christian that was preaching to me "The very concept of a HELL, ridicules the idea of a God. It insults it and drags it to a level lower than a human"
One might be thinking my reason for saying this.

I have wooed many girls in my life and if i recall correctly i have never said to any of them "I love you, love me back or i hurt you" any sane mind will see that everything should be wrong in that statement.
The very idea of me hurting her if she doesn't love me back nullifies my confession of love for her.
Take another look at that statement, it is a blackmail and an abusive word. I have threatened her so it is a blackmail, if she doesn't love me back i will hurt her. It is a sheer blackmail giving her two nonsensical choices.

Now this is one of the reasons religious people do not know that they themselves ridicule their God concepts even more than atheists, We have seen everything wrong in the statement i presented above, but then again let us show the very large scaled way this is used.
God says "I love you, if you don't love me back i will burn you in hell forever" Am sure everyone can now see everything wrong in this, it is blackmail, it is blatant abuse and the very sadistic idea of punishing someone because they don't reciprocate your love reveals egoism at a chronic level, it is barbaric as well as it is repulsive and blatantly implausible. Yet they want us to swallow that a perfect being operates within such childish egoism and abusive ways.

Come to think of it, God should be perfect right? Yes Yes God is perfect. God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, He is even omniperfect.
This very idea of perfection is a flaw in the character people have heaped on their different God concepts. Let us see how.

God is perfect, perfection needs nothing. A circle needs nothing added to it to make it 360°. At 360° a circle is perfect and it is impossible to add even 1° and if you take away 1° and makes it 359° it ceases to be a circle.

So God is perfect, God needs nothing, you can never add anything to it neither can you take away, perfection is just perfection.
If this is the case and God is perfect, this surely means such being needs nothing like Worship, reverence, acknowledgement, praise and all these because it is just perfect.
If God is perfect it simply means that all the worship and reverence etc are useless because he doesn't need them, unless you assert it is not perfect then i will agree it needs them to feed his ego and so feel important.

But religions drag their God concept too low to a level that it needs worship and acknowledgement on daily basis, needs it real bad even threatens people with eternal torture if you fail to give it, this very quality betrays the idea of perfection and drags down the God concept to the state of Egoism, Narcissism, sadism and all round imperfect.....

"Believe i exist and i reward you, disbelieve and i will hurt you so bad forever in an eternal roasting fire" Can abuse and blackmail get any cheaper? You would agree with me an existent powerful and perfect being (if there is even need to) do not need people to be threatening others as to hogwash them into believing it exists, rather it should be able to prove its own existence, isn't it?
This also shows how religions ridicule God and not atheist.

Again, a perfect being should be above hate, anger, jealousy, grief and all, these disturbing emotions are all characteristics of mundane beings like us because it stems from our own emotional insecurity but if God is perfect it is impossible for such emotions to hold sway on it, it is impossible for it to operate within the confines of these emotions, But the religions are heaping on us God concepts that operate within the confines of such disturbing emotions as Anger, jealousy, hate and even bear grudges with humans and then wrap it under the guise of perfection and expect any right thinking human not to ask questions or refute such ideas! The very acknowledgment of these emotions in a supposedly perfect being kills the idea of perfection and portrays a very imperfect being or should i say concept.
This yet again is another way religions ridicule and insult their God concepts.

It is common knowledge for Christians and Muslims, to claim their holy books are all flawless and perfect without blemish and are the words of the supposedly perfect God who created the universe.
But just a look at the books it shows the skills of mundane men in every inch of it, it depicts the knowledge of ordinary men and claiming such to be from a perfect being ridicules and insults the very intellect of such entity because you would be sure a perfect being would do better.

One cannot help but imagine how the very mythological historical antiquity of a certain set of people (which makes up almost 60% of the bible) is the word of a God, how?
Or the very misogynistic, chauvinistic, barbaric, blood drenched charges as seen in different verses of both the Quran and the Bible connotes a universal deity of a perfect status, That is also an insult to the very being these books claim to belong to.
And this yet again shows how religions insult and ridicule their own God concepts.

Another idea is the chosen race brouhaha, A perfect universal God would choose one people specially over others and you still tag it a universal concept? That is clearly the worst form of racism and such favouritism ideology betrays the very concept was invented by the very people it favours and loves more than others even to the extent of taking their side in wars against others (which allegedly he supposed to have created)think about it, this betrays a huge character flaw and a ridicule to the idea of a universal God and is sheer implausible.

Most people in religions often think it is blasphemy to think or ask questions, in fact i have once thought like that. They are afraid to question God and the disturbing characters it is portrayed to have. As a matter of fact many times this fear effectively keeps most locked up in their respective religions because no one wants to be punished by a perfect but again JEALOUS God.

Many would say: Why do atheist discuss God? It is quite simple, differences in ideologies creates room for healthy discussion, scrutiny of the idea. Atheist might lack belief in the God concepts but the stories are there, we have Hindu books to read brahma stories, bible to read yahweh stories, Quran to read Allah stories and many other deities out there just like we also have J.R.R Tolkien Lord of the rings book to read about Gandalf, one necessarily do not need to BELIEVE Gandalf is real before discussing Gandalf, The discussion is always a call to reason and a charge to allow your mind pour out their questions.

Another would ask: Atheists are afraid of hell!
Lol. . this one is always funny, if an atheist is afraid of hell there is no way he would still be an atheist, not at all....In fact we see hell exactly the way we see children who thinks fairies are real its a very hilarious idea.

Again, this write up is not an attack on any religion either is it meant to insult any, it only remains a stimulus to independent reason, healthy questions unbound by fear. I hope none sees it as an attack to their religion. Man always have been a curious being, Man is not a robot that downloads every data you input into it, man should be able to weigh and compare, scrutinize and even criticize. . so do not be afraid to allow your questions cultivate.

Nothing in life is to be feared only understood, this is the time to understand more so we may fear less... Because a subtle thought in error can give rise to useful enquiry that can establish truth of great value

Buddha once said: Believe nothing, even if you heard it from me. unless it agrees with your own reason.

This shows you are supposed to subject every idea to judgement of your own independent reason. Let go of the fear because there is nothing to fear when using your own brain and judgment.... if i am to go on with ways religions ridicule their own God, i would write on forever but let me stop where i am now.[/b]

Eddlad:



And your point being??

herald9:

I'll save this and show it to that mountain of fire guy, who wants to convert me by force, telling me I'm too young to go to hell. This guy looks at me with the most pitiful eyes have ever seen, like a convict on death row.

Sometimes I feel like planking sense into his skull.

joywendy:


And you just had to quote the whole thing to say that?

Simple: Stop being afraid to use your brain.

Eddlad:



I use mine, are you sure you are using yours?

joywendy:

I doubt if you are, 'cause if you did you won't have quoted the whole text to ask a very silly question (no offense). So redirect that question to yourself,are you sure you are using your brain?

krattoss:
I dare any religionist to counter this thread..



Them never born am.

Eddlad:


Am here,I didn't read that so if you can summarize it.

krattoss:
aint good at summary.


Its better off if u read and then counter it by urself.


Marvisguy, i dare u

Eddlad:


What a dilemma then.

krattoss:
whatever

Eddlad:



And your point being??

johnydon22:
You can simply read it again and then think about it

Eddlad:


'Again'( I didn't read it before,no offense, it's lengthy)
Try and summarize.