Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver - Religion - Nairaland
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| Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 1:09pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Why do people generally think that some actions are “right” and some actions are “wrong,” regardless of their subjective opinions? Why do most people believe that it is “evil” or “wicked” (1) for an adult to torture an innocent child simply for the fun of it? (2) for a man to beat and rape a kind, innocent woman? or (3) for parents to have children for the sole purpose of abusing them sexually every day of their lives? Although objective morality may be outside the realm of the scientific method, every rational person can know that some actions are innately good, while others are innately evil. the man who says that it is morally acceptable To Molest little children, is just as mistaken as the man who says that 2 + 2 = 5” Most rational people do not merely feel like rape and child abuse may be wrong; they are wrong innately wrong. Just as two plus two can really be known to be four, every rational human can know that some things are objectively good, while other things are objectively evil. However, reason demands that OBJECTIVE GOOD AND EVIL can only exist if there is some REAL, objective point of REFERENCE. If something (e.g., rape) can be legitimately criticized as morally wrong, then there must be an objective standard “some ‘higher law which transcends the provincial and transient’ which is other than the particular moral code and which has an obligatory character which can be recognized” How can an atheists call something atrocious,wicked or evil? According to atheism, man is nothing but matter in motion . Humankind allegedly evolved from ape or should we say rocks and slime over billions of years. How could moral value come from rocks and slime? Who ever speaks of “wrong rocks,” “moral minerals,”or “corrupt chemicals ? People do not talk about morally depraved donkeys, evil elephants, or immoral monkeys.Pigs are not punished for being immoral when they eat their young. Komodo dragons are not corrupt because 10% of their diet consists of younger Komodo dragons. Killer whales are not guilty of murder. Male animals are not tried for rape if they appear to forcibly copulate with females. Dogs are not depraved for stealing the bone of another dog. Moral value could not arise from rocks and slime. The fact that humans even contemplate morality testifies to the huge chasm between man and animals and the fact that moral value could not have arisen from animals. Atheistic evolutionists have admitted that morals arise only in humans. The moral argument for God’s existence exposes atheism as the self contradictory, atrocious philosophy that it is. Atheists must either reject the truthfulness of the moral argument’s first premise (“If objective moral value exists, then God exists”) and illogically accept the indefensible idea that objective morality somehow arose from rocks and reptiles, or (2) they must reject the argument’s second premise (“Objective moral values exist”), and accept the insane, utterly repulsive idea that genocide, rape, murder, theft, child abuse, etc. can never once be condemned as objectively “wrong.” What’s more,if atheism is true, individuals could never logically be punished for such immoral actions, since“no inherent moral or ethical laws” would exist. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Milliprime: 1:11pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Interest |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 1:13pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Milliprime:are you an atheists ? Don't allow satan to manipulate you. |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 1:16pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Since the world is now a global village, which of the moral law giver should we choose out of thousands of others? Options Yahweh Jesus Allah Krishna Zeus Budha Eck spiritual grand master ... |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Nobody: 1:29pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
The topic "morality demands a moral law giver" also questions mohamed's claims to be a prophet and allah's claim to be the creator because they are both morally very bankrupt. Can you imagine how absurd it will be if a well known highway robber, rapist, adulterer, murderer, paedophile narcissist tries to teach you good morals  5 Likes |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 1:34pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:the answer to your question is here https://www.nairaland.com/1999464/all-religions-lead-god-one |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 1:47pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
malvisguy212: I don't prefer links, read it and comment more concise answer. Links shows that you are don't Know what u are talking about. It means each time you encounter any problem, you research and post here |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Scholar8200(m): 1:56pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Indeed! A reference point that deals with the thoughts before/and the actions and that not only reveals the wrong but gives a lasting remedy, a means for freedom is needed: Look at this scenario: 1. I won't steal because I find it repulsive. 2. I won't steal because I put myself in the shoes of the owner.(so far,so good) 3. I don't see anything wrong in sexual immorality as long as the other party is consenting. (At this point, the lust for pleasure will not make it repulsive, neither will it make you put yourself in the shoes of the parents of the lady!.) 4. After 3., an unwanted pregnancy occurs and here you are, still squatting and struggling to make ends meet, you think," It wont be fair to bring a child into this world to suffer" then you opt for an abortion: i.At this point, empathy fails as you no longer consider the unborn child, risk to the mother, the parents of the mother etc. 5. Maybe you decide to keep the child and along the line, you get married to another person other than its mother, the selfishness and warped premise of point 3 shines forth as you have a child out of wedlock and no matter what, that child will not have as much of you as the ones born after your marriage! Is that fair?! Matters become worse if the mother also gets married to a man who will not keep custody of the same kid then it battles rejection and feeling of being unwanted (if suicide is not committed along the line). 6. Or let's say after 3, immorality continues and both parties remain consenting on the basis of marriage promises in future. After some years, you see someone else, and decide to marry her instead, whither your morality based on empathy? All of a sudden, acting based on empathy becomes impossible because: i. you make the laws and can break it at will: ii you consider your future happiness only and not that of your sin partner because you know she cant guarantee your happiness as much as the new person! Conclusion morality based on empathy or personal conscience only, is inadvertently (and sometimes deliberately) skewed in the favour of the person, not others. That is not morality then but conditional fairness, the condition being your not having much to loose. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Scholar8200(m): 1:59pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:I recommend Jesus. Why? He transforms from inside out! Not just delivering Divine fiats but also enabling and empowering you do same sans struggling! 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 2:13pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Scholar8200: But the content of the bible doesn't appeal to my kind of person because most of its contents are immoral. For example, slavery, encouraged killing of other tribes - GENOCIDE, thou shall not kill but the same god told the Israelites to kill men, children, then keep the virgins, and numerous other immoral acts encouraged in the bible. 1 Like |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 2:47pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:if you read through the thread , you will find out NO others religion gods seems to punihl those who break his moral law , I mean what is the punishment of not being a pagan ? The Hindu gods claimed life began with a group of people, this is scientific wrong because science confirmed life began with a single cell organism (God cannot tell lies) other religions claimed multiple gods but the moral law seems to indicate only ONE God design it ,infacte the word"uni" indicate ONE , only one God create this universe, islam say if your Good deed outweigh your bad deed , allah will forgive you , this type of judgment contradicte the moral Law which God himself design for example , if a man kill your love one and he was arrested, on the day of the trial , he pleaded " hey judge ,I have been doing good, I do not deserve to die , and the killer was set free " will you call the judge a good judge ? The bible say our God is a good judge , so God will not just seat back and allow human to break his moral law . No other religion provides a provision for God's forgiveness of sin, which is why I believe Christianity to be the only true way to God. Jesus said He is the only way to God and that all people must follow Him to enter heaven. All other religions are man's attempt to become acceptable to God. Only Christianity says that God alone provides the only means to be acceptable to Him.So,either Christianity is true and all other religions are false or Christianity is false and God does not hold people accountable for law breaking. Personally, I would not want to rely upon God ignoring His own rules. It doesn't seem to be logical reasoning. This is the choice you must make.thank you. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Scholar8200(m): 2:55pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:Those were acts of Judgement that were not without warning. Notice that the nation concerned were likewise judged when they committed same abominations. It will also be wrong to say it encourages immoral acts. Why? The dealings of God with man recorded therein indicates a dispensation by dispensation process which culminates in the New Covenant/testament sealed by Jesus Christ. Those dispensational instructions (not the moral laws) ended with those dispensations. At present, the New testament through Christ has its instructions which , when obeyed empowers to fulfil the righteous demands of the law not by external trying/struggling but by faith. However, judgement still has its time. Actually, I recommended a Person! 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 2:57pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:slavery are not allow in the bible , nowadays slavery is different from what the bible say about slave , for example Jacob VOLUNTEERS to work for his uncle yet the bible referee to it as slave. According to Old Testament law, anyone caught selling another person into slavery was to be executed: "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." ( Exodus 21:16) So, obviously, slavery during Old Testament times was not what we commonly recognize as slavery, such as that practiced in the 17th century Americas, when Africans were captured and forcibly brought to work on plantations. Unlike our modern government welfare programs, there was no safety-net for ancient Middle Easterners who could not provide a living for themselves. In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor. Moreover christ death reconciled human and God ,we are all ONE in Christ including slaves: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ( Galatians 3:28) knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. ( Ephesians 6:  Which Genocide God deed ? present your case and narrate what causes it. 1 Like |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 3:14pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Scholar8200: That means the entire bible isn't correct, you need to do away with the old testament, you don't pick some verses that suit your needs and abhor others, of which you know that without the old testament, there will be no Christianity. God (which is jesus christ too) commanded that the law will server you forever and ever, is god took majuana when he made that statement, then later-on decided to amend those bad laws in the new testament. Jesus in the new testament still maintain that slaves should obey and be loyal to their masters. He further said that he came to fulfill the law not to abolish it. I can't believe anything with faith. If you can believe the new testament with faith, you ought to start worshipping and believing other religions with faith. I believe that all human (whether man or woman, slave or master) is equal and deserve freedom and respect. Not the inhuman support of slavery in the bible. 1 Like |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 3:14pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Scholar8200:Good points bro, God bless you. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Scholar8200(m): 3:21pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
malvisguy212:Amen. God bless you too. 1 Like |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 3:27pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Both old and new testament supported slavery. Check out tgis verses: Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1: Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life. Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20: If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. Not only does God condone slavery, but he is also completely comfortable with the concept of beating your slaves, as long as you don't kill them. Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20: [b]If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. Not only does God condone slavery, but he is also completely comfortable with the concept of beating your slaves, as long as you don't kill them. [/b] Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32: If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned. Not only does God condone slavery, but here God places a value on slaves -- 30 shekels of silver. Note that God is not sophisticated enough to understand the concept of inflation. It is now 3,000 years later, and a gored slave is still worth 30 shekels of silver according to God's word. 1 Like |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 3:38pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:did you read my post at all ? Did I deny slavery is not in the bible ? The different is that , slavery is not the same as nowadays slavery , the verse you provide indicate ruled for slaves , the slavery you are trying to proved has NO ruled to guide them. Like I say, Jesus death reconciled us , I provide a verse were its say , both slave and free , we are all ONE in CHRIST . But if you insist on your allegation against God word , its your choice , those who rebukes the manipulation of satan will reason with me . Peace!! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Scholar8200(m): 3:52pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:A period of service was given after which the servitude ends forget about the money paid! In fact the highlighted suggests that there could be some that will prefer remaining with a master this already suggests that this was not a slavery like the one done where you remained a slave for life under harsh conditions. Just as the same Bible admonishes parents to beat their children too with the same rod: Proverbs 23:13,14 Exodus 21:30,31 shows that that amount is just a compensation. 30 If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him. 31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him. The amount of ransom, not for the wounded but for the careless owner of the Ox whose harmful tendencies were already known. For a slave, the ransom is fixed but for others, their relatives will decide. Hence that money is not the price of the slave; let's not read meanings that appear to suit our points. Fact is, like it is today, there will always be employers and employees, master and servants. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 4:00pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
malvisguy212: I know but that doesn't make sense, slave in the bible is even worse than the present days slavery which was abolished. Why not god said too, thou shall not enslave your fellow human as he commanded in other aspects of human life and interactions. You are quoting satan in this issue of slavery. Kinda strawman argument. Open your eyes to reality and stop this complicitous attitude. Mentioning satan means nothing to me since i don't believe in imaginative fallacy. Though i have been saying such thing too when i was still a Christian, until i started reading some comments Nairaland that was directly opposing my believe as a Christian. The like of davien, johnydon22, menesheh, plaeton and so many others. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by truthman2012(m): 4:15pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20: ''Thou shall not kill'' was one of the 10 commandments within the community of Israel, it doesn't apply to war situation between two nations. 1 Like |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 4:18pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
[quote author=Scholar8200 post=36564777] A period of service was given after which the servitude ends forget about the money paid! In fact the highlighted suggests that there could be some that will prefer remaining with a master this already suggests that this was not a slavery like the one done where you remained a slave for life under harsh conditions. The master may trick the slave by giving him a wife so to serve him forever, it will be an inheritance after him. And leaving your master is only pertainet to jewish slaves, but foreigners is a different case. Just as the same Bible admonishes parents to beat their children too with the same rod: Proverbs 23:13,14 The bible never commanded you to beat your child to death or injure him to the point of halve death as the case with slavery 31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him. The amount of ransom, not for the wounded but for the careless owner of the Ox whose harmful tendencies were already known. For a slave, the ransom is fixed but for others, their relatives will decide. Hence that money is not the price of the slave; let's not read meanings that appear to suit our points. Why not do so for everybody instead of prejudice and discrimination of a certain people. Fact is, like it is today, there will always be employers and employees, master and servants. "I worked you pay me' is different from owning one as a property. Contemporary employees, master, servant is not a compulsory thing. One can decide not to engage or disengage anytime he or she feels like. One funny thing is that people take because of the bible and god, then stop reasoning properly |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 4:19pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
truthman2012: But all are laws given by god |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Eddlad: 4:20pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20: So tell me, what is your current "beef" with it all.Is it seer disbelieve in the existence of God or the scriptures or both. |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 4:23pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Eddlad: I don't know. Am confused. Still your question gat nothing to do with commenting in a free for all forum  |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Eddlad: 4:39pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20: You are more than welcomed to ask, contribute and share opinion, even the bible entreats us to seek for it paves a way for us to find. Also note that a Christian isn't somebody who doesn't have any questions at all, what matters most is sincere efforts to know. Fire away am watching. |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Delusiongirl20(f): 4:43pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Eddlad: You're right. |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by johnydon22(m): 5:01pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:This is not the first time this guy has brought the morality argument here and have been trashed many times. . . its just a very feeble argument that has no basis and am just too tired of treating the same old crap over and over again! 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Scholar8200(m): 5:06pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:As per the highlighted, that is your reasoning. Nothing in the command permits or encourages that. Every country has constitutions that favours her citizens above the foreigners. Please show me where the Bible commanded us to beat a slave to injury or coma! I wish you read the verses in Proverbs: 13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. 14 [size=13pt]Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell[/size]. As long as a ransom is paid for both. Just like other aspects of civilization, things evolved but there was a starting point! Isn't that Wonderful  |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 5:07pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20:in the bible, people volunteers to work just to earn living still bible called it slave and in modern day slavery , they are forced to do things against their will , and you called this the samething ? Even went further to say biblical slavery is even worse than modern day slavery? Why are you allowing satan to come into your life ? Do you not know Jesus loves you ? Rebukes the devil and he will flee from you, the nairaland monikers you mention , ask them if they had disprove the existence of God , someone say God does not exist and you believe without asking question , this people deny "juju" exist and magic , do you believe them ? To be honesty , am sure you have come across juju or any spiritual things, this things are real, what's the use of eyes when the mind is blind ? Believe in someone on a faceless forum ? Seriously ?? Good for you. |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by malvisguy212: 5:08pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
johnydon22:face it!! You have nothing to say concerning the op. |
| Re: Morality Demands A Moral Law Giver by Eddlad: 5:09pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
Delusiongirl20: What was your inquiry. |
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