Corruption: I’m ready for trial – Obasanjo
By Emeka Madunagu, Hamed Shobiye and Segun Olugbile
Published: Friday, 20 Mar 2009

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo on Thursday said he would be willing to stand trial for corruption if invited.
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Speaking on the British Broadcasting Corporation’s Hard Talk programme monitored in Lagos, he challenged those accusing him and his family of corrupt acts to provide the evidence.

Obasanjo, who was visibly agitated at the interviewer’s reference to links made to him and his family in various probes at the National Assembly, the Nigerian media and in the United States, described the allegations as “nonsense.”

Asked if he was ready to face trial for corruption and alleged kickbacks, Obasanjo replied, “Very, very much so. Very much so.”

He added, “And if you have any evidence, please show it to me and I will defend myself anywhere in the world. It is absolute nonsense, with all due respect.

“I am the only leader in Nigeria that has been examined and reported upon by the anti-corruption bodies in Nigeria. I am the only one.”

At a point during the interview, Obasanjo accused the host of making personal allegations against him and said he was taking undue advantage of the setting of the interview.

In response to a question that his successor, President Umaru Yar’Adua, had accused the Nigerian elite of sustaining endemic corruption in the country, Obasanjo said the President should also be held liable since he was part of the elite.

The former president said that under his administration, top officials linked to corruption were brought to trial while some were convicted.

However, he stated that a glaring instance was the alleged link of his former deputy, Alhaji Atiku Abubakar, to the corruption probe of an erstwhile US Congressman, Mr.William Jefferson.

He said he would not take responsibility for the alleged involvement of his eldest daughter, Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello, because she was old enough to answer for herself.

The former President also rejected the notion that Nigeria had failed to utilise its oil wealth and other opportunities to attain true greatness.

He acknowledged that there had been lapses in governance, but noted that they would be corrected in time to come.

Obasanjo said he fought corruption by setting up two anti-graft agencies, a unique feat worldwide, according to him. He said his administration’s hard stance on corruption attracted commendation from the London Metropolitan Police.

He, however, declined to assess Yar‘Adua, saying it was too soon to do so.

Pressed further, Obasanjo said, ”I know that this man (Yar‘Adua) to the best of my knowledge, for now, is a good person. But he himself knows that being a good person alone does not make you an effective, successful and great president. You need much more than that.”

Below are excerpts from the interview:

Let us talk about justice and accountability in a more personal setting. And let’s bring the conversation to Nigeria. I’ve looked across the Nigerian press, I’ve listened to people from the National Assembly and I’ve also looked at some records coming out of the courts in your country and America as well and they are serious allegations concerning you and your family on corruption and kickbacks. Are you prepared to face those charges and to give a full account…

Very, very much so. Very much so. And if you have any evidence, please show it to me and I will defend myself anywhere in the world. It’s absolute nonsense, with all due respect. I am the only leader in Nigeria that has been examined and reported upon by the anti-corruption bodies in Nigeria. I am the only one.

When your successor (Yar’Adua) took over, he described corruption as very endemic and he said it was the country’s elite that was responsible.

He (Yar’Adua) is one of them.

One of what?

He is one of Nigeria’s elite.

Of course, he is. And he said that as he took over and looked at what was happening inside government, there is corruption to the very top. It doesn’t reflect well on you.

If he said that, did he mention Obasanjo? Did he mention Obasanjo?

But, you were the President?

I am (was) the President.

You were the President and you were responsible for the governance of your country.

But I am not responsible for the corruption of every Nigerian.

Not every Nigerian but you were in the end, the chief executive of a country which your successor said was endemically corrupt.

Please, please, please, you have made strong allegations against me personally and against my family…(Almost rising out of his seat in anger and pointing his fore finger at the interviewer).

I’m coming to that…

…and you have no way to substantiate it. Substantiate it. And if not that this is something where you are taking undue advantage, I would have even said that I would go beyond here.

Now, let’s talk specifically, then.

Yes.

Halliburton and various Halliburton subsidiaries have paid vast amounts of money in fines in the US because of bribes paid out to Nigerian officials. If one takes the testimony…

Are those Nigerian officials, am I one of them? (Pointing at the interviewer).

Let’s talk about that. Albert Jack Stanley confessed last year to bribing, and this is according to US court documents and quote, “three successive holders of a top level office in the executive branch of the Nigerian government. He negotiated with these executive office-holders’ representatives regarding the amount of bribes. Now, if one cross-checks that…

Who are they? Who are they?

I’m coming to that. If one cross-checks that with the testimony before a French prosecutor, Jeffrey Tesler, another Halliburton agent involved, I’m sure you know these names…

Yes, yes…

He named you as one of three Nigerian successive heads of state who had been involved in negotiations with the Halliburton subsidiaries which were later, in a US court, found guilty of bribery and corruption on a massive scale.

Tesler would never say that.

It’s in the French records.

Let Tesler bring that out. By the time you say that somebody is guilty of corruption, there must be the giver, there must be the taker and there must be the evidence.

Did you have any communication with Jeffrey Tesler?

No.

Never?

No, absolutely not. Not me personally.

As you know, he has been arrested and the US is now seeking his extradition. Are you worried about what he may say in a US court?

I am not worried. He will bring evidence. I am not worried. I am very, very sure of my position and my stand. Alright. I do not say that people in my government were not corrupt but I am not corrupt.

Let me stop you just there. Are you saying that people in your government were corrupt?

Of course. Are you saying that the people in the government of any country are not corrupt?

I’m talking about senior people. I’m talking about ministers, I’m talking about your closest allies. Do you now believe that some of them were corrupt?

Well, my then vice-president (Atiku Abubakar) had something to do with Jefferson, which is part of the case in America. I don’t know whether corruption has been proved or not but he had questions to answer.

Isn’t this a terrible failing? Well, leave aside, perhaps, the courts to decide whether you personally can be held for all this. But do you accept that it was a terrible failing for you as president to see inside your government, at the very top of your government, according to your own successor, that there was rampant corruption?

I do not accept that. If in any government somebody is found to be corrupt, the onus lies on the head of that government to bring that man to book. When I was the head of government, there was no case of corruption against any minister, any high government official that…

But that sort of system doesn’t work?

No, I don’t agree with you.

But corruption was prevalent inside your country when you were President and yet, not one senior official inside your government has been convicted of serious corruption.

I do not agree with you. You don’t have your facts right. In my government, three ministers were charged to court. In fact, one died in the process. The (former) Inspector-General of Police (Mr. Tafa Balogun) was charged and convicted. The then President of the Senate, in my own party (Adolphus Wabara) was charged to court. A minister of education was charged to court.

However, allegations against Obasanjo and those of some of his family members are many. They include his purchase of 200 million shares in Transcorp through a blind trust, landed property in Abuja, and the use of executive powers to organise a fundraiser where about N7bn was realised for the construction of the controversial Presidential Library located in Abeokuta, Ogun State.

His government was alleged to have sold off assets of the Federal Government to his cronies as well as expended over $13bn on the power sector without consumerate result.

Obasanjo’s daughter, Iyabo, is currently facing trial for her involvement in a N3.5bn power project involving an Austrian firm, M.C Schneider and for her role in a N10m unspent budget fund in the Federal Ministry of Health.

Some Nigerians, political parties, and non-governmental organisations had stridently called on the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission and the Indepenent Corrupt practices and Other Related Offences Commission to probe Obasanjo and his administration.

At the forefront of the call is the Coalition Against Corrupt Leaders which had last year filed a petition before the EFCC demanding the probe of the former President.

But the anti-graft agencies and the Federal Government had insisted that they needed ‘concrete’ facts before they could carry out such a task.

when are they going to ban you from this forum?
pls stop using our name to post bs!

Ijawman:


Well, my then vice-president (Atiku Abubakar) had something to do with Jefferson, which is part of the case in America. I don’t know whether corruption has been proved or not but he had questions to answer.

the man is really obsessed with atiku,they ask him a question not relating to jefferson,he brings up jefferson's name and mentions atiku, i knew he was dumb but not this dumb

He should use some of that corrupt money to get a facelift. It makes no sense for this man to still be walking around looking like a primate.

You ppl shd leave obj alone o!

Spoofed:

He should use some of that corrupt money to get a facelift. It makes no sense for this man to still be walking around looking like a primate.

i second that

obj once said he hates nigerian press and that he does not read their papers. when cnn had a documentary on niger delta, he stopped nigeria's adverts on cnn and now he wanted to fight the man on hard talk. maybe obj hates press all over the world.

it is good that obj brought yar adua and now he must be regretting this.

obj is a thug and that was why he tenure gave room for the heighest level of political thugry in nigeria.

he will not like to visit uk in the nearest future.

ribadu will be the next as both of them jointly decieved nigerians.

ijaw_girl:

when are they going to ban you from this forum?
pls stop using our name to post bs!

Don't be such an idiot. Who made you the Ijaw custodian and the decider of who is or is not Ijaw? Do you know me?