bixton:



Baba we understand all this things. The client mentioned about contacting the contractor around June/July.......can't say when actual cash payment was done but if this happened between July and October for cash transfers then the excuse of material price variation/availability should be something that must have been trashed.
Now I do not think any roofer removes an old sheet without proper confirmation that the replacement is on site or on the way to the site especially when you know very well that the owner of the structure sleeps in the house.
In this scenario you don't de-roof completely na. It's removed in bits and replaced accordingly.

The roof removal must have happened in the last two days or a week ago while the contractor is trying to fix the job.

My thought here.

There’s no way my guy will remove roofs without having the materials to cover it on ground.
Though if it’s a contemporary build which is my man’s specialty and there’s plan to have some additions or maybe they’re remodeling the build, it’s possible roofs are removed before the sheet arrives.

There’s possibilities of trying to convert a pitch roof into a flat roof. There’s nothing impossible.

A January/February rain is unplanned. We always fix remodels that involves roof removal towards January/February to beat the rains.

I’m not trying to make excuse here but just trying to have an exchange on the likely possibilities.

folmus:

This is true. I personally know someone who has given you jobs.

Really? Hope I delivered excellently? Maybe it's you. My clients always keep there monikers from me.

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n3xt:


The roof removal must have happened in the last two days or a week ago while the contractor is trying to fix the job.

....

I’m not trying to make excuse here but just trying to have an exchange on the likely possibilities.

Then, make contingencies and cost them properly. As the Professional, it's your job to think through these things with your client.

My home in the UK was 'rooflesss' for over 8 months during some recent loft conversion/extension works. Of course, scafolding and a temporary roof cover was in place, with side sheeting to protect agains the elements. I lived in the house all that time.

vickzie:
I'm trying to understand something here, if a client give a job to a contractor for X amount, and the contractor fails to deliver, and the client asks for refund, is it the exact amount paid that should be refunded bearing in mind inflation, eg if I pay 10m when cement was 2350 to complete a bungalow and the contractor fails, won't it be absurd for the contractor to refund me same 10m, when I can no longer complete the project with the said 10m due to inflation

Involve a lawyer, sign a contract which serves as a legal binding BTW the two parties.
Try to always protect your money and time.

n3xt:


The roof removal must have happened in the last two days or a week ago while the contractor is trying to fix the job.

My thought here.

There’s no way my guy will remove roofs without having the materials to cover it on ground.
Though if it’s a contemporary build which is my man’s specialty and there’s plan to have some additions or maybe they’re remodeling the build, it’s possible roofs are removed before the sheet arrives.

There’s possibilities of trying to convert a pitch roof into a flat roof. There’s nothing impossible.

A January/February rain is unplanned. We always fix remodels that involves roof removal towards January/February to beat the rains.

I’m not trying to make excuse here but just trying to have an exchange on the likely possibilities.

Smart man agreed

"There’s no way my guy will remove roofs without having the materials to cover it on ground.
Though if it’s a contemporary build which is my man’s specialty and there’s plan to have some additions or maybe they’re remodeling the build, it’s possible roofs are removed before the sheet arrives"

jabolo:


Then, make contingencies and cost them properly. As the Professional, it's your job to think through these things with your client.

My home in the UK was 'rooflesss' for over 8 months during some recent loft conversion/extension works. Of course, scafolding and a temporary roof cover was in place, with side sheeting to protect agains the elements. I lived in the house all that time.

We are talking about Nigeria

jabolo:


Then, make contingencies and cost them properly. As the Professional, it's your job to think through these things with your client.

My home in the UK was 'rooflesss' for over 8 months during some recent loft conversion/extension works. Of course, scafolding and a temporary roof cover was in place, with side sheeting to protect agains the elements. I lived in the house all that time.

I agree completely. We are first human and we are prone to errors.

For the kind of job skimanski does, I would understand if he had requested for more time.

He’s everything I ever want to be

_______

The job (by skimanski) in the pic below is not for the regulars.

I took a second look at this job and I cannot but say this guy is fantastic.


Get back in winning ways bro!

lawyer:


Firstly for someone to say I have been here for 9 years and done nothing is very untrue. Property forum has the highest number of posters opening new threads everyday advertising their properties for sale and my job description is to monitor those who Spam threads and people who abuse the rules of the forum. My job does not entail sorting out personal feuds, identifying scam artists or calling out fraudsters. Nairaland is a forum. If you are scammed, you have to take recourse legally. There is no provision for a special court or better business bureau to handle fraudulent cases rather everyone is repeatedly warned to know who they are dealing with and the Caveat Emptor Rule is placed everywhere.

I am not the police. I am not a Judge. I am not an Arbitrator. I only can help out settling disputes peacefully if I am invited to come in. If no one calls out a fraudster here personally and tags me, how am I to know that someone has been duped? When they were arranging the business I was not there. When they were paid, I was not there. If they have done the job well, nobody would contact me. But when issues occur, all hell would be let loose that Lawyer is not doing his job. My job here once again is to ban, block out spammers and make sure a thread is flowing without rancour or insults. If people contact me personally to settle issues offline, then I would play my role as an arbiter of justice to settle it amicably if I choose to. If it turns out to be a legal issue then law personnel would come in.

I chose not to face the construction section because Alhaji Muftau was doing a great job here and I recommended him to Seun to make him a Moderator to monitor this thread while I faced the other threads that had trolls, spammers and trouble makers. On average, I check over 1000 posts a day on the property forum to make sure they don't violate the rules. How am I to know someone is defrauding another person when I wasn't told? It was until this case was reported to me that I knew there was an issue to sort out. I check this forum every day to do my job privately.

I chose not to comment or post anything for years because so many small boys and girls here became abusive and derailed so many intelligent posts and comments I was making and I had enough dealing with abusive people for no reason and kept to my self without commenting for years. If I choose to keep to myself, it's my prerogative. This issue between Skimanski and AppDevt would be resolved and that's the aim in settling a dispute. Any idiot who tries to infer that I am coming into this issue because I am Yoruba and the parties involved are Yoruba would be banned from this forum. He or she can carry their tribalistic attitude to the Tribal Forum not here. If you criticize me fairly, I would be the first to accept the criticism and promise to do better. If you think you can use that opportunity to insult me and cast aspertations on my character for no reason, I wont argue with you but ban you straight.

As a learned, you could still communicate without using the word "idiot", at the slightest provocation because you disagree with someone. I chose my words on this forum because I could be yelling at a tout/miscreant or a professor for goodness sake!

Freciprocal:


You started so well and ended up sounding like the people you are actually working hard to keep away from this forum. Threatening people with ban solves nothing, infact it encourages them to keep opening multiple accounts.

I would love to address a point you brought up. You recommended alhaji muftau to seun. In the last year or two alhaji muftau's contribution has dwindled or becomenon existent. There was a time he mentioned he was no longer a moderator. He is someone I have been following since 2012, the wealth of experience and stability he brings to property section is immesurable.

Sir if you can fix that relationship with seun and alhaji muftau, there might be no need for you to use a lot of your time to meddle in all this crisis.

Shebi I have sounded well shey?

Mr lawyer, if you want to ban me you can ban me now. I have made my point.

You have spoken very well sir.
Modified: why don't we wait to hear from the horse's mouth before playing the devil's advocate playing out possible excuses/explanation.
All the explanations trying to rationalise the reasons behind the action may influence his explanations.
Any sincere and unbiased person should let the person speak without putting words in his mouth.
We are still waiting for the person that accused brabus of N3m to come and shed more light.
It's too premature to apportion blame and start making blanket statement on the integrity of the person and forum without answering the simple, clear question brabus asked.
If we must intervene, it must be from a point of sincerity and open mindedness and not as an excuse to take a pound of flesh or to prove some preconceived point.

n3xt:


cc: davodyguy

When you're negligent and can be proven, the contractor will pay heavily.

Under the law of contact, there's something called duty of care.

The law of torts is applicable and it would apply against the contractor, even if it was Dangote or End SARS that caused inflation

vickzie:
I'm trying to understand something here, if a client give a job to a contractor for X amount, and the contractor fails to deliver, and the client asks for refund, is it the exact amount paid that should be refunded bearing in mind inflation, eg if I pay 10m when cement was 2350 to complete a bungalow and the contractor fails, won't it be absurd for the contractor to refund me same 10m, when I can no longer complete the project with the said 10m due to inflation

It depends on the terms of the agreement.

What both parties agreed to when they shook hands and signed the dotted lines.

There's a reason why some contracts are 100 pages. It covers all the basis and lays out the terms of the agreement.

Remember when you opened your email, or signed up for something online, new credit card etc. did you read all the terms and conditions? There's a reason why those things are that long for reasons like your question.

If it was not previously agreed to, the contractor is not liable.

But again don't sit and wait before you take an appropriate action if a deal go sour.

If you wait around for too long before seeking relief, not every judge will be sympathetic to your cause.. some will feel sorry for you but throw out your case..

Remember, doctrine of laches.

davodyguy:

When you're negligent and can be proven, the contractor will pay heavily.

Under the law of contact, there's something called duty of care.

The law of torts is applicable and it would apply against the contractor, even if it was Dangote or End SARS that caused inflation

Thank you for educating us sir!

We need to move beyond looking for savings on projects to understanding how to protect ourselves on projects and businesses.

A lot of people don’t pay attention to all these things. We just conduct business anyhow.

Just got banned again for posting this.

Till tomorrow evening. Thank you sirs/mas.

davodyguy:

When you're negligent and can be proven, the contractor will pay heavily.

Under the law of contact, there's something called duty of care.

The law of torts is applicable and it would apply against the contractor, even if it was Dangote or End SARS that caused inflation

does it also apply to payment for services rendered. a client is owing me a substantial amount when dollar was 360, now that money is worth half the value it's worth then, mind you client is a diasporan, earns in $, now he's gonna spend less $ to pay me up whenever he deems fit, he gains, I loose. mind you this was a gentleman agreement, no contract.

vickzie:
does it also apply to payment for services rendered. a client is owing me a substantial amount when dollar was 360, now that money is worth half the value it's worth then, mind you client is a diasporan, earns in $, now he's gonna spend less $ to pay me up whenever he deems fit, he gains, I loose. mind you this was a gentleman agreement, no contract.

A contract or agreement can either be in black and white or implied.

Yes, if it can be proven that you suffered losses due to someone else's action.

tort law falls into three categories: those complaints dealing with negligence; intentional harm; and unintentional but non-negligent a ts known as strict liability

davodyguy:
A contract or agreement can either be in black and white or implied.
Yes, if it can be proven that you suffered losses due to someone else's action.

thanks. lesson learnt.

Senior Lawyers I salute una. well done

davodyguy:

A contract or agreement can either be in black and white or implied.

Yes, if it can be proven that you suffered losses due to someone else's action.

Definitely not because his client earn in dollars. They didn’t transact in dollars.

Would he have accepted less if naira appreciate against dollars?

vickzie:
does it also apply to payment for services rendered. a client is owing me a substantial amount when dollar was 360, now that money is worth half the value it's worth then, mind you client is a diasporan, earns in $, now he's gonna spend less $ to pay me up whenever he deems fit, he gains, I loose. mind you this was a gentleman agreement, no contract.

Was there any agreement even gentle manly that the payment for your services will be in $$ or N......

bixton:



Was there any agreement even gentle manly that the payment for your services will be in $$ or N......

none. but I charged based on the prevailing economic conditions at that time, this month makes it a year I'm supposed to have received payment. the suppose money can currently afford half of what it's supposed to have afforded 12 months ago. does that mean he can withhold the payment till 2050 when it's would probably be worthless and still be justified. if it was the other way around whereby I withheld his funds for the 12 months, and abandoned the project, if I request for more funds and he refuses, can he take legal action against me since no contract was signed, just gentleman agreement.

BrabusNG:


Definitely not because his client earn in dollars. They didn’t transact in dollars.

Would he have accepted less if naira appreciate against dollars?

Except if it's expressly agreed regarding exchange rate, then liability can not be taken.

But what's particularly important here is performance and non performance, losses and compensation due to action/in action of one party.


A yearly tenant by default is entitled to 6 months quit notice in advance whether there's a Tenancy agreement or not.

Tenancy laws of all countries and especially the received English Law being practiced in Nigeria is applicable

I only deal on building materials such as tiles water closet, doors etc....
I give my client what they want and what I post is what i sales� pictures is from my client �

InvertedHammer:

/
My problem is all these pictures picked from foreign websites. However when given the job, the quality of finishing leaves a lot to deserve.

Why not post pictures of your real works?
/

valencia2012:


As a learned, you could still communicate without using the word "idiot", at the slightest provocation because you disagree with someone. I chose my words on this forum because I could be yelling at a tout/miscreant or a professor for goodness sake!

I called the person an Idiot because he said I am intervening now because the complainant is Yoruba and I am Yoruba hence the reason for interfering to call out Skimanski. If the person was intelligent and not an idiot, he would have weighed his words to criticize me without exposing his small-minded attitude towards Tribalism and trying to turn this forum to a tribal discussion. I stated my reasons why I was away and nobody has called me or tagged me about any intending fraud. Why would someone one that does not know me all of a sudden believe I am being selective to sort an issue because he thinks I am Yoruba and I only come out to sort issues for Yoruba Nairaland users alone? Is that person not an Idiot? I am a very quiet and patient person. I take criticism on the chin and hope to do better when someone calls me out. I agree I have to do more on this thread and monitor fraudsters more aggressively and I take all your advice to heart but anyone who acts like a tribalist on this Forum and tries to divide us, I would wrestle in the mud with that person because such a person has no room in his heart to change his attitude as a tribalist and troll and I won't apologize for going so low with such a person.

folmus:
Where are the cement sellers? What's going on? Latest price.

2800 here in Ilorin

vickzie:
none. but I charged based on the prevailing economic conditions at that time, this month makes it a year I'm supposed to have received payment. the suppose money can currently afford half of what it's supposed to have afforded 12 months ago. does that mean he can withhold the payment till 2050 when it's would probably be worthless and still be justified. if it was the other way around whereby I withheld his funds for the 12 months, and abandoned the project, if I request for more funds and he refuses, can he take legal action against me since no contract was signed, just gentleman agreement.

Hmm! The issue you’re raising here is cogent one. A lot of people got into business without full understanding of what it takes and how to protect themself.

A lawyer friend met me one day and he said “Bosun, you’re too greedy. You’re doing big projects and you just didn’t lawyer up to protect yourself and your business. It won’t take more than 1-5% of your contract sum.”
Since that day I have a rethink about how I conduct my business.

I’ve done a project that I state exactly when I’ll receive funds for every new milestone. If payment is delayed by one day, the client pays N50,000 for each day fund is delayed.
To protect the client too, I gave a date when each milestones will be completed and we agreed if I exceed by one day, I’ll be paying N50,000 for each day the job is delayed unless it’s excusable delay (unfavorable weather conditions, civil unrest, sickness, conditions beyond contractors powers, government restriction order etc).


Guess who default? (Default with flimsy excuses)

It’s 48 hours since allegation was raised against Brabus and the simple request made was that the complainant should tell us how it happened.

I purposely asked so that I can know how to respond to the allegation.

Here’s my account (I do not have all the detailed information on the transaction here but I’ll give a brief account)

- Truly we were engaged to construct a fence in Ibeju Lekki area of Lagos state.

- We moved to site immediately we were mobilized.

- On getting to the site, I realized the land has not been cleared and I requested that it should be cleared so that we can know exactly the area we are working.

- The client engaged people to do that and we commence the fence work.

- We started with the right side (when facing land). However on getting midway, we found another old fence which shows someone has done something around that area before a very long time ago. This created a very useless piece of land in between the land we are working on and the old fence found in the bush.

- When we got to the back, we found another fence.

- I informed the client and we continued our job. We proceed to the frontal part of the land.

- As we were about getting to the point we were shown the land ended, some land urchins (omo onile) came to the site and stopped the work.

- I informed the client and he told me one person will come.

- We will get back to site, the dreary guys will accost us in the bush and send us away again and again.

- This continued for a very long time.

- Accessibility was a major issue on the site as we can’t get heavy truck to get to the main site, so we drop granite some distance away from the site.

- For every time we were stopped and left the site, we will notice our materials has been stolen before we got back to site.

- I used NextHome Dump Truck for the delivery of sand which was gotten at Okun, Ibeju Lekki Lagos. I had to park down the truck for weeks awaiting a permanent resolve.

- Whenever we get to site, a faction will tell us the land is here. Another will come and tell us something different. So completing the last side became almost an impossible mission.

- At a point we started digging a place and they told us the land was beyond the line.

- Sigh!!!

- Eventually we did the blinding and raising of 3rd side and the issue wasn’t resolved. The land wasn’t fully cleared. So we left.

- Months after I got a call from someone on behalf of the client and guess what it was DSS inviting me for fraud.

- I went there and they said the client said I collected his money and didn’t do his work. I smiled.

- My client can use DSS against me but can’t provide ordinary vigilante or police to protect us when we were being disturbed in the thick forest. What an irony!
Well, we are first Nigerian before we travel go obodo oyibo land.

- That I got a contract to construct a fence, does it automatically invested power of attorney in me to act anyhow on the land?

- My question has always been “What should I have done?”

- To continue working on the land when I’m not the land owner, not the surveyor, nor member of the omo onile family?

- To stage a serious fight against the omo oniles because I want to impress my client? If I die, I’d be given a state burial abi?

- To park my granite, sand and other materials in my bag and take them to safety until all issues are resolved?

- When the client asked for refund, I asked myself. Am I supposed to tell the granite supplier that “Sorry o! we didn’t use all the granite because omo onile stopped us so the client need a refund?”

- For anyone who’s familiar with Ibeju Lekki land urchin, you’ll know how dreary they are.


Let me stop here. Let’s hear from the other side.


Can I ask my Oga if all these claims are lies?


______

While we were on this project, my client made a double payment of over a million naira to my account and I called his attention to it and transferred the money back to him.


_______

Part 2: Communication Palava

A lot of people in diaspora do one funny thing I’d like to share. They’d use a line no one can reach them on to call their contractors/family members/friends etc so anytime there’s something urgent and important you have to wait for their call.

It’s the most useless thing I’ve ever seen. Please don’t work with people you don’t trust. Work with your family members or trusted allies and make communication as easy as possible.

Life is not difficult if we chose to live simple.

Isn’t it shocking that I just got to know the userid my client after almost 5 years? In fact, the userid just followed me 2 days ago and we were working together on multi-million naira project.


More updates on this in Part 2.


_______

Part 3 - Photobomb

lawyer:


I called the person an Idiot because he said I am intervening now because the complainant is Yoruba and I am Yoruba hence the reason for interfering to call out Skimanski. If the person was intelligent and not an idiot, he would have weighed his words to criticize me without exposing his small-minded attitude towards Tribalism and trying to turn this forum to a tribal discussion. I stated my reasons why I was away and nobody has called me or tagged me about any intending fraud. Why would someone one that does not know me all of a sudden believe I am being selective to sort an issue because he thinks I am Yoruba and I only come out to sort issues for Yoruba Nairaland users alone? Is that person not an Idiot? I am a very quiet and patient person. I take criticism on the chin and hope to do better when someone calls me out. I agree I have to do more on this thread and monitor fraudsters more aggressively and I take all your advice to heart but anyone who acts like a tribalist on this Forum and tries to divide us, I would wrestle in the mud with that person because such a person has no room in his heart to change his attitude as a tribalist and troll and I won't apologize for going so low with such a person.

Your points are clearly understood. Am proudly Igbo, but I speak Yoruba and Hausa fluently than my language. Therefore, I won't bath an eyelid if anyone drags me into tribalism. Suit yourself, but don't go calling a Psychiatric patient an idiot one day.

atsechurch:
atsechurch
Good evening everyonepls I need a quote for casement windows
4X5= 8
4X4= 20
2X2 1/2=16
2 1/2X 7 =1
With embedded burglary and net,reflective blue glass. Site is in jeddo, delta state.

atsechurch@yahoo.com
Thks

With installation
4 x 5=48k
4 x 4=40k
2 x 2=18k
2 1/2 x 7=40k
Thick imported materials
Casement window embedded burglary and net reflective blue glass
Thanks

davodyguy:


That guy must be one serious pervert

I understand your humor but profiling him as a pervert no make sense. At least he asked a very responsible question.

vickzie:
does it also apply to payment for services rendered. a client is owing me a substantial amount when dollar was 360, now that money is worth half the value it's worth then, mind you client is a diasporan, earns in $, now he's gonna spend less $ to pay me up whenever he deems fit, he gains, I loose. mind you this was a gentleman agreement, no contract.

Next time charge your client in $, its a more stable currency.

Someone gave me 5M in 3 installment because he intend to buy cars but i told him he has the option to pay me in $ to buy the cars or pay me in =N=.

He choose to pay me in naira, This was when =N= was about 350. I made him understand his money is deposited as naira and whenever he gives me a go ahead to buy the cars I will work with the current exchange rate.

Ive used his money for my project long ago and replaced it when a $ was =N=500. If he changes his mind as asked for his money, I will give him =N=5M.

Thats what I did to stay on a safe lane because right now his 5M is not enough for all the cars he intend buying.