Scholar8200:
You appear to be eager to edit that passage.

Already I highlighted how 'brought forth' was repeated twice therein and also drew on a parallel verse in Psalm 139 to show that the word possess is used in relation to the 'brought forth' process. Thankfully, both passages were referring to living beings!

If you will single out 'possess' and throw away the 'brought forth' repeated twice, you are a free moral agent but you would have diminished from the word, deleting vs 24 and 25 because you feel your thinking supersedes the Word!!!

malvisguy212:
listen, Mary given birth to Jesus without the agency of a man proved Jesus exist long before he was born, that why john say "the word become flesh and dwell among us" and in john 3:16 it indicate, the birth of Jesus is a gift to the world. So this mean Mary was only the recipient of that gift. She is not the source of that gift.

MizJanet:


poo , he asked you a very good question which your churchtard beliefs wont let you answer .

He said : Can You giv birth to something you possess ? THats a contradiction between the two verses . Open your eyes and brain

Jozzy4:


The given birth to in proverb 8:24 didnt happen when Mary gave birth to Jesus . The Oceans are formed then .

So explain how Jesus was given birth to with labour pains before the springs are formed ? Proverb 8:24

Jozzy4:
The greek word used in the LXX conveys " days of age" not everlasting ! Check Micah 7:14 where the same greek word appears in the septuagint , it doesnt mean isreal have been feeding on bashan and gilead from everlasting .
It depicts ancient times since the context indicates he has an ORIGIN.


Whereas the greek word used at proverb 8:22 directly mean CREATE ! LXX

Jozzy4:
Can you imagine the underlined ! The septuagint or english translation you read , had it been you paid attention to the literal rendering of that passage in the septuagint , you will realize why its said that the LXX greek admit two renderings

" the throne of you the God into the age of the age" .

This literal reading permit it to be rendered " God is thy throne" as seen in many english translations . And this is the most correct because the person been addressed has a God . (verse 9 ) .

How can God have a God ? God's God ? God annoint God ? God have God ? this is serious .

Scholar8200:
You appear to be eager to edit that passage.

Already I highlighted how 'brought forth' was repeated twice therein and also drew on a parallel verse in Psalm 139 to show that the word possess is used in relation to the 'brought forth' process. Thankfully, both passages were referring to living beings!

If you will single out 'possess' and throw away the 'brought forth' repeated twice, you are a free moral agent but you would have diminished from the word, deleting vs 24 and 25 because you feel your thinking supersedes the Word!!!

Emusan:


Keep dancing around!!!

So if the Greek word used conveys "days of age", wasn't the same Greek word used in Psalm 90:2

But you must find a way of twisting Micah but Psalm still remains even when we also read about the Father as THE BEGINNING which you interpreted as ORIGIN here

And the Greek word used in Micah directly means EVERLASTING!!! LXX

malvisguy212:
Your view of Chiyl is attached to the 'birth pains' as it fits your view of Jesus being created here in Proverbs 8. I have no problem with the 'birth pain' but has it occurred to you that what you are indicating here is that " God gave birth to Jesus in PAIN?"

[s] have you ask your self , were chiyl is used else were in the bible ?

Micah 1:12
12For the inhabitant of a]
">Maroth BECOMES WEAK waiting for
good, Because a calamity has come
down from the LORD To the gate of Jer
Yes, you see what you are doing here ? Comparing the nature of God and human, would you say God is weak too because chiyl is used in proverb 8 ? NO, so you should focus on proverb 8:22 which say “Producer.” LXXVg, “who
created”; but in vs 22 Vg reads, “POSSESSOR.”
[/s]

Emusan:


[s]
as usual always twisting word.
Let me repeat myself once again, the point here is HOW THE SEPTUAGINT RENDERED THE VERSE not how PEOPLE INTERPRETED IT.

If we should go by interpretation there are many ones out there, that's why I even challenged you TO SHOW US HOW scholar, B. F. Westcott interpreted Proverbs 8:22 (which you agree with on rendering of Psalm 45)

But you boycotted that part as if you didn't see.
So do yourself a favour by focusing on how SEPTUAGINT RENDERED IT which is the point here.



This is another unscriptural understanding.

According to you the literal rendering of that verse is "the throne of you the God into the age of the age"

No one will argue that this isn't referring to Yahweh not matter how it being rendered in Psalm 45 so the author of Hebrew QUOTED THE VERSE WORD FOR WORD no paraphrase which means it supposed to be rendered as it was in Psalms 45

Which will read literally: About the Son He said; "the throne of you the God into the age of the age".

I think the question to ask ourselves is, why a verse that is referring to God in the Old Testament DIRECTLY QUOTED AND APPLIED TO THE SON? [/s]

Jozzy4:


Can you give birth to what you already possess ?

Scholar8200:
From Psalm 139, possess is that which took place within before the bringing forth!
Psalm 139:13 shows us the 'possessing' was more an internal action that precedes the 'bringing forth':
For thou hast possessed my reins:
thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.

Jozzy4:


And The psalmist admit this so - called internal action means he was wonderfully created ! Psalm 139:14 . So what do you mean by INTERNAL ACTION ?

Scholar8200:
While referring to his mother's womb in the verse quoted meaning the 'possessing' was part of the conception before the 'bringing forth'. Hence it would be wrong to single it out as a sole action of creation just like Adam was created.
For thou hast possessed my reins:
thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.

Besides unlike the psalmist,the Speaker in Proverbs 8 affirms twice of being brought forth!

Jozzy4:


The psalmist applaud it has act of creation ! Psalm 139:14 , is that wrong ?

The main point is that "he was brought forth as with labour pains " , what does it mean that God give birth to him as with labour pains ?

Remember that God also give birth to the earth with labour pains ? What does it mean ?

Scholar8200:
As a creature, his first father, Adam, was directly created and commanded to reproduce hence the psalmist attributes the same creation process to himself though what was described in preceding verses was the reproduction/conception process.

But God was not created hence the Speaker in Proverbs did not once say 'I was made'! Rather He repeats it , 'I was brought forth'! In describing the things that were created, HE uses another verb!

The inclusion of labour and pain (came after the fall of man) is peculiar to man's parlance not as a normal part but due to the fall.

Proverbs 8:25,26
25Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world

I believe you would appreciate personification when you see one? The passage in Psalm 90:2 is expressed in Proverbs quoted above to show that God, the Originator of all things, [size=25]made the earth [/size] and settled the mountains thus clarifying the personification used in Psalm 90:2.

Another example of such personification is Isaiah 59:4
None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth:
they trust in vanity, and speak lies;
they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Jozzy4:


Everyone given birth to is a Creation .



Stop confusing yourself with this old english of brought forth ! I WAS GIVEN BIRTH TO , how ?



Rubbish !



@ underlined , since you admit the expression earth is brought forth with labour pains means MADE The earth , why are you shying away from given the same meaning to proverb 8:24 where the same expression appeared ?

Janosky:


Trinitarians twist ,deny and alter the truth..
LIARS they are....
See the proof here.
Compare Prov 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22.
King James Bible
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Christian Standard Bible
He blessed him and said: Abram is blessed by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,

Contemporary English Version
and said to Abram: "I bless you in the name of God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.

Good News Translation
blessed him, and said, "May the Most High God, who made heaven and earth, bless Abram!.

Verdict:
Is the Wisdom of Proverbs 8:22-30 a person?
Is the Word of John 1:1 a person?
Answers : YES !

Prov 8:22-30, 1Cor1:24,30. John 1:1a
The Word & Wisdom personified is Jesus Christ, "the first born of every creature" Col 1:13-15.