dmandy:


Were there no apparitions recorded in the Holy Book?

dmandy:


I have read it through.

Glad you know anybody can believe what they want apart from what you believe. If they believe what they saw, let it be.

ayoku777:


Jesus appeared to people, angels appeared to people. So such have a scriptural foundation.

But on what scriptural foundation is the appearance of Mary? Or you want to claim any appearance of any being is of God?

Mary is not a messenger Angel, neither is she our covenant mediator -only Jesus is. So on what scriptural foundation and doctrine is the relevance of her purpoted appearance?

It can't be of God, therefore. It can only be a demonic manipulation. We don't follow signs, we follow the scriptures and signs established on scriptural truths. And the appearance of Mary is neither.

Shalom

johnydon22:
Sure that's fair enough bro!

The day I decide that I am from the Moslem parts of Africa and the freedom to alcohol in this country is part of the “decadent Western culture” that I condemn all the time while living in it, I will return to my alcohol-free blissful life in Moslem Africa and not insist that Canadians stop drinking to accommodate me.

dmandy:
But check out this liberty news report.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRWMV-erkmQ

Check this link as well (http://www.newsroom.ng/nigerias-sick-flock-16-year-old-girl-healing-mary-mother-jesus-shows-kaduna/)

TrajansKong:


Look again and listen again to those who have seen the white woman in the sky. She is the mother of god coming back to cleanse the earth. Repent. Unbelievers and doubters will be torture for eternity in hellfire.

dmandy:


I do not argue your position, I only want to find out where it is based.

Did people who died wake up and appear to people in Jerusalem? What was the significance?

ayoku777:


It is in the bible, that's what I'm saying. Glorified old testament saints that rose with Jesus, appeared to people in Jerusalem before they ascended. Those saints are the firstfruit of the coming future resurrecrion of the saint. That is a scriptural truth.

But have they appeared to anyone again since they ascended? No! Because they are glorified saints, not messenger angels or mediators of the new covenant.

Is the appearance of Mary a biblical doctrine? On what scriptural truth is basis of her appearance? Mary is not even resurrected, glorified saint like the ones in Matthew; much less being a mediator of the new covenant.

Her appearance does not point to, validate or establish any truth in God's word or sound doctrine in the scripture. So the puported sign of her appearance can never be of God. Because God always operates by His word.

This can only be a demonic distraction to those who give it relevance. Mary is in heaven awaiting her resurrection like every other saint, not appearing to anyone. This apparition is not scriptural or of God. It is demonic sign you will do well to ignore.

Shalom.

dmandy:




I love this quote from Prof. Pious,

italo:


Seems like the Prof was referring to nairaland wannabe Atheists who can't do without discussing God.

ayoku777:


Their's is in the bible, that's what I'm saying. Some glorified old testament saints that rose with Jesus, appeared to people in Jerusalem before they ascended. Those saints are the firstfruits of the coming future resurrecrion of the saint. That is a scriptural truth.

But have they appeared to anyone again since they ascended to heaven? No! Because they are glorified saints, not messenger angels or mediators of the new covenant.

Is the appearance of Mary a biblical doctrine? On what scriptural truth is the basis of her appearance? Mary is not even a resurrected, glorified saint like the ones in Matthew; much less being a mediator of the new covenant.

Her appearance does not point to, validate or establish any truth in God's word or any sound doctrine in the scripture. So the puported sign of her appearance can never be of God. Because God always operates by His word.

This can only be a demonic distraction to those who give it relevance. Mary is in heaven awaiting her resurrection like every other saint, not appearing to anyone. This apparition is not scriptural or of God. It is a demonic sign you will do well to ignore.

Shalom.

dmandy:

The bold is what I want you to proof.

The Bible wrote in what chapter and verse that only glorified, resurrected saints can appear?

ayoku777:


Even glorified, resurrected saints cannot appear. Those ones appeared immediately after they came out of their graves before they ascended. And after that, no one has seen them again.

Saints in heaven, whether glorified and resurrected or just dead, stay in heaven until the resurrection. They don't appear to anyone on earth like angels or Jesus.

They are not messenger angels or covenant mediators.

If you don't know this, tomorrow another apparition will appear claiming to be the prophesied Elijah. Then another one will come saying he is the returned Enoch.

You must know that saints in heaven don't appear to anyone. To see them, you must died and go to heaven yourself or be taken like Paul was to the third heaven.

Be Berean with God's word, that's the foundation of sound doctrine. Otherwise if you just follow signs you will be led astray.

Shalom

ayoku777:

Even glorified, resurrected saints cannot appear. Those ones appeared immediately after they came out of their graves before they ascended. And after that, no one has seen them again.
Saints in heaven, whether glorified and resurrected or just dead, stay in heaven until the resurrection. They don't appear to anyone on earth like angels or Jesus.
They are not messenger angels or covenant mediators.
If you don't know this, tomorrow another apparition will appear claiming to be the prophesied Elijah. Then another one will come saying he is the returned Enoch.
You must know that saints in heaven don't appear to anyone . To see them, you must died and go to heaven yourself or be taken like Paul was to the third heaven.
Be Berean with God's word, that's the foundation of sound doctrine. Otherwise if you just follow signs you will be led astray.
Shalom

italo:


The summary is that apparitions happened in the Bible.

Where did the bible tell you it cannot happen again?

italo:


Where did the Bible say the bold?

And where did the bible say those were the only apparitions that would ever happen?

dmandy:


The bold is what you have been saying since with too many words. If want to teach a person something you make it simpler.

Anyways, you say I should not believe anything that is not written on the pages of the Bible. Can you tell me where the bolded statements are written?

I don't want us to be going in circles achieving nothing.

Give me the scriptural backing and I will follow your teaching

ayoku777:


And where is it in the bible that every strange appearance or apparition is of God?

ayoku777:

And if every apparition is not God, how to you know which is of God and which is demonic?

ayoku777:


Or any apparition that is the image of a biblical character is of God to you? Smh.

ayoku777:


Saints in heaven (dead or glorified) don't appear to anyone on earth. They are not messenger angels or covenant mediators. That is sound doctrine.

ayoku777:


Purported apparitions of Mary, Elijah or Enoch etc are all demonic appearances and manipulation.

Shalom!

ayoku777:


You establish doctrine through scriptural antecedents, not through personal opinion.

And scriptural antecedents show that saints in heaven don't appear to saints on earth.

Or else, you show me where saints in heaven came to earth and appeared to saints on earth.

Shalom

ayoku777:


You establish doctrine through scriptural antecedents, not through personal opinion.

And scriptural antecedents show that saints in heaven don't appear to saints on earth.

Or else, you show me where saints in heaven came to earth and appeared to saints on earth.

Shalom

italo:


I never said the bold.


I don't know, tell me.



I didn't say so. You did.



"Sound doctrine" that The Bible never taught.



So it was a demon that appeared to Jesus in this verse:

Matt17:3 * And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, conversing with him.

You still haven't shown where the Bible says saints will never appear.

dmandy:


If feels somehow that at some point it scriptural for saints to appear but at other times it is not. Anyways, When you said Scriptural antecedents I believe, you mean these?

1. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus

2. A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

3. Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

4. They came out of the tombs after Jesus' resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


Now, you ask me 'if I any saints in heaven has appeared to saints on earth? Do you actually believe God cannot allow that? Is it impossible for God (all powerful to do) if He chose to.

If you don't believe in something, you can walk away. Calling it ungodly might mean doubting the power of God.

What do you think of the Jews, 'to them its impossible for a virgin to bear a son'.... and you say 'these people are foolish, how can they doubt the power of God?'

ayoku777:


I believe in miracles, signs and wonders. I've seen blind eyes opened and deaf ears unstopped in the name of Jesus. I wasn't told, I was there.

But I only believe in signs that are scriptural and are based on truths in God's word. Because I know fully well that the enemy can also perform lying signs.

I believe angels can appear to people from heaven. And I believe Jesus can appear to people too from heaven. But that is because they are messenger angels and mediators of the new covenant.

But saint in heaven are not messenger angels, neither are they mediators of the new covenant. They don't appear to saint on earth from heaven.

Moses and Elijah appeared because up until then, they were the mediators of the old covenant (the law and the prophets) that Jesus came to fulfill. And they appeared for that purpose.

What covenant is Mary mediating? What messaging is she delivering? Is she a messenger angel? Is she a covenant mediator?

All appartions of Mary, Enoch etc have no scriptural basis. They are demonic manipulations. God always operates by the standard of His word.

Shalom

dmandy:


The dead who appeared in Jerusalem were they a kind of co-mediator of the new testament? Just asking.

ayoku777:


And where is it in the bible that every strange appearance or apparition is of God?

And if every apparition is not God, how to you know which is of God and which is demonic?

Or any apparition that is the image of a biblical character is of God to you? Smh.

Saints in heaven (dead or glorified) don't appear to anyone on earth. They are not messenger angels or covenant mediators. That is sound doctrine.

Purported apparitions of Mary, Elijah or Enoch etc are all demonic appearances and manipulation.

Shalom!

ayoku777:


Thank you. I'm glad you're admitting you don't know how to determine if an apparition is of God or its demonic.

So you don't know how to determine it, yet you conclude by personal bias that the purported apparition of Mary is of God.

ayoku777:


That is a slippery slope to being led astray.

Now when Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on the mount of transfiguration, the appeared as the two mediators of the old covenant that Jesus came fulfil (the law and the prophets)

That's why I chose my words carefully, that Mary is not a messenger angel, neither is she a covenant mediator. So on what scriptural truth is the basis of her appearing to any saint on earth after dying?

Moses and Elijah represented the mediators of the old covenant; law and the prophets.

No saint in heaven is a messenger angel or mediator of any covenant now. Not even Mary.

Be Berean with the word, be Berean!

There is no verse that categorically said saints in heaven don't appear, just as there is no verse that say they do. But scriptural antecedents show that saints in heaven are not messenger angels or covenant mediators, and don't appear to saints on earth, like angels or Jesus can.

Apparitions of Mary, Enoch etc are demonic.

Shalom

ayoku777:


I believe in miracles, signs and wonders. I've seen blind eyes opened and deaf ears unstopped in the name of Jesus. I wasn't told, I was there.

But I only believe in signs that are scriptural and are based on truths in God's word. Because I know fully well that the enemy can also perform lying signs.

I believe angels can appear to people from heaven. And I believe Jesus too can appear to people from heaven. But that is because they are messenger angels and mediators of the new covenant.

But saints in heaven are not messenger angels, neither are they mediators of the new covenant. They don't appear to saints on earth from heaven.

Moses and Elijah appeared because up until then, they were the mediators of the old covenant (the law and the prophets) that Jesus came to fulfill. And they appeared for that purpose.

What covenant is Mary mediating? What messaging is she delivering? Is she a messenger angel? Is she a covenant mediator?

All appartions of Mary, Enoch etc have no scriptural basis. They are demonic manipulations. God always operates by the standard of His word.

Shalom

ayoku777:


They were not mediating anything. They just rose from the dead and came out of their graves; and appeared to saints in the city. They were not yet ascended to heaven then. But were seen before their bodily ascension.

They are in heaven now; and like every other saint in heaven, they don't appear to any saint on earth anymore.

Trust me, any apparition of a dead biblical saint that appears to you now, I ask you to rebuke it with faith in the name of Jesus, and see what happens. That's if you're a true believer yourself.

You will see that you were about to be led astray by an evil spirit. No heavenly saint is a messenger angel or covenant mediator. They have no business with earth anymore until the resurrection.

Shalom

italo:


The one who appeared in Rev 12:1, who was she and what covenant was she mediating?

jcross19:
only two things make catholic different from islam , is like muslims and catholic are competing who will show more sign. Last time it was allah inscription on a egg shell now mary is appearing in kaduna. Okay soon mary and allah will appear mounting road block and that will be in ilorin.

italo:

The bold are demonic doctrines since they aren't found in the bible.

ayoku777:


That woman represents Israel (the seed of Abraham after the flesh); the nation that brought forth the Messiah (the man child).

Notice that after the man child (Jesus) was taken up to heaven, the woman was persecuted by the dragon; after which she went into the wilderness for a while. And the dragon now turned its wrath to the remnant of her ofsprings (the gentile church or the seed of Abraham after the Spirit)

That's exactly what happened to the nation of Israel. Shortly after Jesus ascended, the nation of Israel was destroyed and laid fallow for many
years. During which the devil focused his wrath on the gentile church.
The woman represents Israel, not Mary or any dead saint. It is a symbolic vision.

Shalom.