freecocoa:
It can be her responsibility all she wants, I don't have a problem with that, saying women who refuse to conform to such aren't well brought up, are immature, not ready for marriage, are proud, taking advantage of the man, etc, is what I have a problem with.

You should know by now what I think about such cultural roles, it is a couple's responsibility to care for each other and that involves cooking,

now we are unlucky to have had this role relegated to women in this part of the world for a long time, we all know the damage it has done to some who at one point or another couldn't fulfil the so called responsibility, so...

Yes she did.

Well, she does have a point if she says they aren't well brought up. After all, you don't have to get married do you? But if you do want to get married you should understand what is expected of you in a marriage. It's logic, really.

Whatever you think of these roles is your opinion and will be subject to resistance because it is a break from the norm. Your condescending approach to changing this norm is totally unwarranted. It wouldn't be a bad idea to argue your point without rancour.

In this part of the world? In which part of the world are women not tasked with making the food in the home or general home making. Name that part of the world with examples, please. Wetin you dey talk? And, please explain what is unlucky about women being homemakers. I truly would like to learn. Seriously, I would like to be enlightened on the damage women have suffered for not fulfilling responsibilities expected of them, responsibilities which they signed up to do, by the way.

No she didn't.

Timbuktou:


1. But it is a do or die affair for some people, isn't it? Can't they have their own opinions or must everyone think like you?

2. The fact that you intend to get married at all neutralises your argument. If you want to stay with someone till you die you don't have to get married. So, why do you, Freecocoa want to get married whether or not it's a do or die affair or not. Why not just move in with the dude and move on with your life?

3. Again, I ask, why are you entertaining the thought of marriage which you neither need or are desperate for? Why not just co-habit with whoever you think you love. In fact, now that I think of it, it's even less messy in the event of a break up. You wouldn't need all the long, winding divorce process.

4. Society made these laws after centuries of practise and evolution. Nobody is held to social unwritten laws, we follow them first because we have been taught to and because we see the benefit in them. What would be your purpose of reinventing the wheel, because the first one doesn't really work or because you don't know how to make it work, two different things.

5. Firstly, you have chosen to take her comment out of context and then you have proceeded to be uncivil towards her comment. Not a good look.

Even if she said not cooking for one's husband is irresponsible, I'm sure you weren't addressed directly. And the proper thing for you to do till you insulted is to present a superior argument. You are not the thought police, madam. Everyone does have the right to have whatever opinion they want. The best you can do is attempt to persuade them otherwise with your better opinion or ignore them.

1.i can't remember opining that everyone must think like me, but I sure as hell know that the world will be a better place if more people did.

2.Pray tell how, please? You haven't told me why I shouldn't get married, I will get married because marriage happened along the way, you haven't read me say, I am working towards getting married, have you? If marriage happens, good, if it doesn't, good, how hard is that to understand?

3. Your point would have been slightly relevant if every marriage ended in a divorce, I am entertaining the thought because I have nothing against marriage and my partner may want to be married.

4.Society also made so many other laws I have no issues with, I am reinventing the wheel because this one works only in favour of one gender, therefore doesn't really work.

5.You are choosing to be her attorney so you can say anything in her defence but I'm very sure nothing was taken out of context.

Her comment, accompanied by incivility was directed at my school of thought, held by so many other women and defend it by asking questions after returning a shot she fired, was what I did, in a bid to present my argument but alas! As usual, she is certain her way is the only true, right and best way and should not be questioned, she'd rather walk away than engage, how is that my fault?

Lol @Thought police, I never have claimed to be, have I? You of all people should know that in matters like this, opinions must and should be challenged when it is made as a statement of fact, therefore please get off your high horse. She threw the first punch, and I don't have to persuade them, not when they aren't persuasive with their own comments, what you give is what you get.

freecocoa:
1.i can't remember opining that everyone must think like me, but I sure as hell know that the world will be a better place if more people did.

2.Pray tell how, please? You haven't told me why I shouldn't get married, I will get married because marriage happened along the way, you haven't read me say, I am working towards getting married, have you? If marriage happens, good, if it doesn't, good, how hard is that to understand?

3. Your point would have been slightly relevant if every marriage ended in a divorce, I am entertaining the thought because I have nothing against marriage and my partner may want to be married.

4.Society also made so many other laws I have no issues with, I am reinventing the wheel because this one works only in favour of one gender, therefore doesn't really work.

5.You are choosing to be her attorney so you can say anything in her defence but I'm very sure nothing was taken out of context.

Her comment, accompanied by incivility was directed at my school of thought, held by so many other women and defend it by asking questions after returning a shot she fired, was what I did, in a bid to present my argument but alas! As usual, she is certain her way is the only true, right and best way and should not be questioned, she'd rather walk away than engage, how is that my fault?

Lol @Thought police, I never have claimed to be, have I? You of all people should know that in matters like this, opinions must and should be challenged when it is made as a statement of fact, therefore please get off your high horse. She threw the first punch, and I don't have to persuade them, not when they aren't persuasive with their own comments, what you give is what you get.

1. Then you are better off disagreeing with her amicably, don't you think? Whether the world would be better off is debatable.

2. You don't have to get married to live with someone for ever, woman. Accept that fact, if you didn't know that. Marriage is a social construct. What does marriage offer that cohabiting for life doesn't? You're not working towards marriage but you'll accept a marriage proposal? Why not tell the proposer that you'd rather just shack up with them and save yourselves the associated costs of a marriage? Surely, you could use the money for other things than buying of gowns and sundry items, rings and such. It's not like you won't know who you live with if vows aren't exchanged is there?

3. The same relevance your point about women being damaged in marriage has, don't you think. Unless you're saying all women who fail in society's expectations of them in marriage have some sort of arbitrary damage. Or that they are all unlucky.

So, you're going to be getting married because your partner would want it not because it's something you really want? You're indifferent about marriage but will subject yourself to the written laws associated with it? How about your partner not getting married because you don't care for it anyway. One wonders what you're willing to go through for the sake of this partner of yours other than just getting married.

4. Works only favour of one gender yet women are wailing daily at not being able to find a decent man to marry? Since, you're a woman, Cocoa, I would appreciate if you could tell me why women are so desperate to get married the world over. And, yes, I'm expecting you to claim that only Nigerian and African women are desperate for marriage, and I'm eager to prove you wrong on that score.

5. This is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The fact is, you spoke out of turn when you took her comments personal. You could have disagreed like a civil human being, but you chose not to.



I'm going to have to request this shot she fires at you, I've truly searched and haven't been able to find it. Please provide me with a quote and/or link to such comments.

Timbuktou:


Well, she does have a point if she says they aren't well brought up. After all, you don't have to get married do you? But if you do want to get married you should understand what is expected of you in a marriage. It's logic, really.

Whatever you think of these roles is your opinion and will be subject to resistance because it is a break from the norm. Your condescending approach to changing this norm is totally unwarranted. It wouldn't be a bad idea to argue your point without rancour.

In this part of the world? In which part of the world are women not tasked with making the food in the home or general home making. Name that part of the world with examples, please. Wetin you dey talk? And, please explain what is unlucky about women being homemakers. I truly would like to learn. Seriously, I would like to be enlightened on the damage women have suffered for not fulfilling responsibilities expected of them, responsibilities which they signed up to do, by the way.

No she didn't.

How aren't we well brought up? I neither have nor have not to get married, the problem lies with the said expectations, why should I not have a say in how I'll get married? Who are those people expecting something of my marriage? How are they of any importance in the issue? I don't see how it's logic if it's invalid.

Aren't you funny? Would there have been rancour in the first place, if she didn't bring up the condescending attitude first by implying that I'm irresponsible? Just like what she thinks of me refusing to conform to those norms is her opinion, which will also subject to resistance when made as a statement of fact. get that right.

Yea well, women have been tasked with this alright since time immemorial but that's changing, what I mean is that, in this part of the world, change is being resisted vehemently and for some, not meeting up with some expectations as designed by these norms, have left them with broken body parts and miserable lives, that's what I meant by being unlucky, they didn't sign up for it if it was unwritten, now did they?

Yes she so did.

freecocoa:
How aren't we well brought up? I neither have nor have not to get married, the problem lies with the said expectations, why should I not have a say in how I'll get married? Who are those people expecting something of my marriage? How are they of any importance in the issue? I don't see how it's logic if it's invalid.

Aren't you funny? Would there have been rancour in the first place, if she didn't bring up the condescending attitude first by implying that I'm irresponsible? Just like what she thinks of me refusing to conform to those norms is her opinion, which will also subject to resistance when made as a statement of fact. get that right.

Yea well, women have been tasked with this alright since time immemorial but that's changing, what I mean is that, in this part of the world, change is being resisted vehemently and for some, not meeting up with some expectations as designed by these norms, have left them with broken body parts and miserable lives, that's what I meant by being unlucky, they didn't sign up for it if it was unwritten, now did they?

Yes she so did.

I said she has a point. I think you need to relax and try to understand people's points, reading slowly and repititively helps. Expectations are a result of standards not a means of punishment or oppression. Surely, there are expectations required of the man, no? Why do you make it sound like marriage as it is a woman-oppressing institution? By the way, I'm happy for you on being the first woman to have a say in how she gets married.

Cocoa, unless she called you irresponsible directly, you have no point. Keep your solipsism in check, woman. If she feels people like you are irresponsible, good luck to her; that doesn't mean she has called you irresponsible to your face and certainly doesn't warrant a direct insult from you either. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry I don't know how else to put it.


It would interest you to know that in the part of the world which you hold as the beacon of all things saintly, they are coming back in droves to these values which we on this side of the world have refused to relinquish. Think I'm lying, check the internet. You are going through a phase they have gone through and are recovering from, you're late to the party sef, the party done end, dem dey pack chair you just dey come. People done dey go dia house back.

The abused women are as a result of the expectations and not the practitioners? So, cars shouldn't be driven because there have been accidents recorded due to malfunction of the machines? Or the unwritten rule states that that's to be the consequence of failure in meeting expectations?

Timbuktou:


1. Then you are better off disagreeing with her amicably, don't you think? Whether the world would be better off is debatable.

2. You don't have to get married to live with someone for ever, woman. Accept that fact, if you didn't know that. Marriage is a social construct. What does marriage offer that cohabiting for life doesn't? You're not working towards marriage but you'll accept a marriage proposal? Why not tell the proposer that you'd rather just shack up with them and save yourselves the associated costs of a marriage? Surely, you could use the money for other things than buying of gowns and sundry items, rings and such. It's not like you won't know who you live with if vows aren't exchanged is there?

3. The same relevance your point about women being damaged in marriage has, don't you think. Unless you're saying all women who fail in society's expectations of them in marriage have some sort of arbitrary damage. Or that they are all unlucky.

So, you're going to be getting married because your partner would want it not because it's something you really want? You're indifferent about marriage but will subject yourself to the written laws associated with it? How about your partner not getting married because you don't care for it anyway. One wonders what you're willing to go through for the sake of this partner of yours other than just getting married.

4. Works only favour of one gender yet women are wailing daily at not being able to find a decent man to marry? Since, you're a woman, Cocoa, I would appreciate if you could tell me why women are so desperate to get married the world over. And, yes, I'm expecting you to claim that only Nigerian and African women are desperate for marriage, and I'm eager to prove you wrong on that score.

5. This is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The fact is, you spoke out of turn when you took her comments personal. You could have disagreed like a civil human being, but you chose not to.



I'm going to have to request this shot she fires at you, I've truly searched and haven't been able to find it. Please provide me with a quote and/or link to such comments.

1.She wasn't amicable in her approach, warranting my response.

2.Lol, I do know that fact oga and we have since agreed on marriage being a social construct, just like money is, heck! like interacting with you is, how is marriage different from other social constructs or are you saying saying I should be an island? See me trouble o. I don't have to co-habit if I decide to want marriage, just like I don't have to be married if I decide to co-habit. Did I complain to you about not having money for a wedding? Or that I have problem with declaring my love for my partner in the presence of family and friends? Why are you concerned with that? Why tell him I'd rather shack up, if I have no issues being married? Is it your place to decide which I choose? I have the power to choose and should I choose marriage, it is my beeswax.

3. I am saying that, subjecting women to such rigid roles has made them unlucky, the damage is not arbitrary, there's a system to it.

You are choosing to misinterpret my stance, I don't have any reason to not get married if I can do it my own way, unless you are saying that I must conform to those roles should I get married, I never implied I'd be subjecting myself to the said rules on marriage according to society, when did I say I couldn't want it? Let's assume I don't want it and my partner does, presenting good reasons why he thinks it should be done, why can't I compromise? Yea, one should wonder all he wants.

4.Duh! Some for selfish reasons, some to be accepted by society and some for reasons best known to them.

5.I disagree. She spoke out of turn calling people who don't agree with those so called rules irresponsible, I don't owe an uncivil person civility.

Refer to 5 above.

The age-old saying "the quickest way to a man's heart is through his stomach" got one thing wrong: gender. I'd say women are wayyy more impressed by a man's culinary skill than a man could ever be with a woman's, however delicious her own food and impressive her skill.

The truth is, it's fairly uncommon to come across a man who can actually cook - and by "cook" here I don't mean that sloppy, just-to-get-by, 'survivalist' cooking mentality bullshyt that tastes you just ate flavorless ash, because I've def come across plenty of that, but a man who can honest-to-goodness cook - so when you do it's genuinely and inexplicably attractive. The guy becomes hotter than a habanero (if he was hot before, forget it you're in piping hottt water now), and something about it all just makes you melt like warm butter. Being someone who's never dated a man who could hold his own like that before, it really is a whole new ball game. And one where there's no going back [no more ash, not ever!], lol.

I believe that's what happened to the woman in the OP. She thought she found the "holy grail", but now from what I understand she's expecting him to take over all/most of the cooking (which isn't necessarily a bad thing were it agreed upon), but since he's not wanting that, they've to find a balance that works better for them. It's clear they both have unhealthy attitudes with lack of consideration on one end and entitlement issues on the other. It really isn't that hard to compromise. Regardless, its a subject that should've been perused before proceeding with the nuptials IMO.

Timbuktou:


I said she has a point. I think you need to relax and try to understand people's points, reading slowly and repititively helps. Expectations are a result of standards not a means of punishment or oppression. Surely, there are expectations required of the man, no? Why do you make it sound like marriage as it is a woman-oppressing institution? By the way, I'm happy for you on being the first woman to have a say in how she gets married.

Cocoa, unless she called you irresponsible directly, you have no point. Keep your solipsism in check, woman. If she feels people like you are irresponsible, good luck to her; that doesn't mean she has called you irresponsible to your face and certainly doesn't warrant a direct insult from you either. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry I don't know how else to put it.


It would interest you to know that in the part of the world which you hold as the beacon of all things saintly, they are coming back in droves to these values which we on this side of the world have refused to relinquish. Think I'm lying, check the internet. You are going through a phase they have gone through and are recovering from, you're late to the party sef, the party done end, dem dey pack chair you just dey come. People done dey go dia house back.

The abused women are as a result of the expectations and not the practitioners? So, cars shouldn't be driven because there have been accidents recorded due to malfunction of the machines? Or the unwritten rule states that that's to be the consequence of failure in meeting expectations?

Well, if you are saying she has a point, aren't you agreeing with her? Didn't you read me say that in those said expectations, a man is more favoured? Did I ever imply that men aren't expected of anything? You should probably read slower. Marriage may not have been intended to be an institute to oppress women alright, but whoever made some of those rules that lead to the oppression women set the tone, which is being followed as a norm, thereby giving the impression of marriage being oppressive for women. Btw, thank you my brother, e no easy

Well, the woman she called irresponsible directly isn't here, after all the story is about someone, I was speaking on behalf of the woman, since when is that a crime? Spokesperson anyone? That's not solipsism, is it?

Funny, yet we have this thread and so many others, okay na, we shall see.

The expectations encourages, or I can even boldly say, incites the practitioners. Cars that are known to be malfunctional shouldn't be driven.

freecocoa:
1.She wasn't amicable in her approach, warranting my response.

2.Lol, I do know that fact oga and we have since agreed on marriage being a social construct, just like money is, heck! like interacting with you is, how is marriage different from other social constructs or are you saying saying I should be an island? See me trouble o. I don't have to co-habit if I decide to want marriage, just like I don't have to be married if I decide to co-habit. Did I complain to you about not having money for a wedding? Or that I have problem with declaring my love for my partner in the presence of family and friends? Why are you concerned with that? Why tell him I'd rather shack up, if I have no issues being married? Is it your place to decide which I choose? I have the power to choose and should I choose marriage, it is my beeswax.

3. I am saying that, subjecting women to such rigid roles has made them unlucky, the damage is not arbitrary, there's a system to it.

You are choosing to misinterpret my stance, I don't have any reason to not get married if I can do it my own way, unless you are saying that I must conform to those roles should I get married, I never implied I'd be subjecting myself to the said rules on marriage according to society, when did I say I couldn't want it? Let's assume I don't want it and my partner does, presenting good reasons why he thinks it should be done, why can't I compromise? Yea, one should wonder all he wants.

4.Duh! Some for selfish reasons, some to be accepted by society and some for reasons best known to them.

5.I disagree. She spoke out of turn calling people who don't agree with those so called rules irresponsible, I don't owe an uncivil person civility.

Refer to 5 above.

1. Alright, then. Whatever floats your boat.

2. So, what's the problem in choosing to abide by the rules of the social construct?

3. Really? A system of willful ill-luck and damage? Cocoa, your comments are interesting. And, don't take this the wrong way, would you say your own mother was unlucky and damaged? I may not be aware of the intricacies of her marriage, but I don know one of the dictates of the marriage construct was bride-price payment which was observed when she was married, so, to an extent, she did abide by these rules and roles.

4. Yet, it is a system designed to put them under subjugation? A system they are all too willing to honour its dictates? This doesn't cast a very favourable light on african women, I must admit. Why be desperate for something that's so bad for them? One wonders the more.

5. Refer to point 1.

EnlightenedSoul:
The age-old saying "the quickest way to a man's heart is through his stomach" got one thing wrong: gender. I'd say women are wayyyy more impressed by a man's culinary skill than a man could ever be with a woman's, however delicious her own food and impressive her skill.

The truth is, it's fairly uncommon to come across a man who can cook - and by "cook" here I don't mean that sloppy, just-to-get-by, 'survivalist' cooking mentality bullshyt that tastes you just ate flavorless ash, because I've def come across plenty of that, but a man who can honest-to-goodness cook - so when you do it's genuinely and inexplicably attractive. The guy becomes hotter than a habanero (if he was hot before, forget it you're in piping hottt water now), and something about it all just makes you melt like warm butter. Being someone who's never dated a man who could hold his own like that before, it really is a whole new ball game. And one where there's no going back [no more ash, not ever!], lol.

I believe that's what happened to the woman in the OP. She thought she found the "holy grail", but now from what I understand she's expecting him to take over all/most of the cooking (which isn't necessarily a bad thing were it agreed upon), but since he's not wanting that, they've to find a balance that works better for them. It's clear they both have unhealthy attitudes with lack of consideration on one end and entitlement issues on the other. It really isn't that hard to compromise. Regardless, its a subject that should've bern perused before proceeding with the nuptials.

Did it ever occur to you that men are very good cooks because they value good food? And that while they might be very good at cooking, they don't necessarily have the patience for it and being a good cook would be a major criterion in choosing a wife? You know because they value good food?

Timbuktou:


1. Alright, then. Whatever floats your boat.

2. So, what's the problem in choosing to abide by the rules of the social construct?

3. Really? A system of willful ill-luck and damage? Cocoa, your comments are interesting. And, don't take this the wrong way, would you say your own mother was unlucky and damaged? I may not be aware of the intricacies of her marriage, but I don know one of the dictates of the marriage construct was bride-price payment which was observed when she was married, so, to an extent, she did abide by these rules and roles.

4. Yet, it is a system designed to put them under subjugation? A system they are all too willing to honour its dictates? This doesn't cast a very favourable light on african women, I must admit. Why be desperate for something that's so bad for them? One wonders the more.

5. Refer to point 1.

.Alrighty.

2. The so called rules to that social construct is unfair, that's the problem.

3.To an extent, she was, I do know for a fact that my dad had it better than she did, just like I know many other women with such stories.

4.Well, they've been indoctrinated to believe that's how it ought to be, so it's more of a thing of "we don't have a choice" therefore we just have to make do with the choice that have been handed us. Like you didn't know that is that is the point of this whole argument, the plight of the african women, that is.

freecocoa:
Well, if you are saying she has a point, aren't you agreeing with her? Didn't you read me say that in those said expectations, a man is more favoured? Did I ever imply that men aren't expected of anything? You should probably read slower.

Marriage may not have been intended to be an institute to oppress women alright, but whoever made some of those rules that lead to the oppression women set the tone, which is being followed as a norm, thereby giving the impression of marriage being oppressive for women. Btw, thank you my brother, e no easy

Well, the woman she called irresponsible directly isn't here, after all the story is about someone, I was speaking on behalf of the woman, since when is that a crime? Spokesperson anyone? That's not solipsism, is it?

Funny, yet we have this thread and so many others, okay na, we shall see.

The expectations encourages, or I can even boldly say, incites the practitioners. Cars that are known to be malfunctional shouldn't be driven.

Didn't it ever cross your mind that I'm correcting on the premise and conclusion of her argument? And didn't you deduce from her comment that cooking the meals was a way of caring for the man? Maybe you should read even slower and put contexts into consideration.

Oh, marriage may not have been? That's the new tack? Ok, so the problem is now the person who made the laws who set the tone? How about putting the blame squarely on those who should bear it, the practitioners and not the system or its controls? Every system and law can and will be abused. We can be honest and treat the problems, in this case the practitioners or go about grasping at straws in a bid to sound more knowledgable than we really are. Maybe women should stay out of marriage the, if it's so oppressive. God knows no man will point a gun at none of you if you didn't expect them to make the relationship "go somewhere".

Like I said, it's a phase they have gone through. Perhaps, everybody here is late to the party. Indeed, we shall.

Doesn't stop the production of more malfunctioning cars in the future does it. Gee, I wonder why.

freecocoa:
.Alrighty.

2. The so called rules to that social construct is unfair, that's the problem.

3.To an extent, she was, I do know for a fact that my dad had it better than she did, just like I know many other women with such stories.

4.Well, they've been indoctrinated to believe that's how it ought to be, so it's more of a thing of "we don't have a choice" therefore we just have to make do with the choice that have been handed us. Like you didn't know that is that is the point of this whole argument, the plight of the african women, that is.

Unfair to whom, exactly? You speak for all the women of the world now?

So, have you encouraged her to do better. Or is she past any saving?

Where you claim indoctrinated, I would say poorly educated, in fact, because these women don't seem to know what a good marriage entails.

The African woman's plight is very much thoroughly exaggerated. Whatever merit there is to it has been this "plight" has been blown out of proportion

Timbuktou:


Did it ever occur to you that men are very good cooks because they value good food? And that while they might be very good at cooking, they don't necessarily have the patience for it and being a good cook would be a major criterion in choosing a wife? You know because they value good food?

And who, pray, doesn't value good food? It seems you're being incredibly liberal with the idea that men are good cooks, but simply 'don't have the patience for cooking'. What does that even mean? Is there a special patience that women have for it I wasn't aware of?

As it were, if that were his style/outlook (a major criterion of his choosing a wife being that she be a good cook), he certainly failed miserably in that he chose one whom is apparently neither as skilled as him in the art nor feels obligated in doing so, don't you think?

Timbuktou:


Didn't it ever cross your mind that I'm correcting on the premise and conclusion of her argument? And didn't you deduce from her comment that cooking the meals was a way of caring for the man? Maybe you should read even slower and put contexts into consideration.

Oh, marriage may not have been? That's the new tack? Ok, so the problem is now the person who made the laws who set the tone? How about putting the blame squarely on those who should bear it, the practitioners and not the system or its controls? Every system and law can and will be abused. We can be honest and treat the problems, in this case the practitioners or go about grasping at straws in a bid to sound more knowledgable than we really are. Maybe women should stay out of marriage the, if it's so oppressive. God knows no man will point a gun at none of you if you didn't expect them to make the relationship "go somewhere".

Like I said, it's a phase they have gone through. Perhaps, everybody here is late to the party. Indeed, we shall.

Doesn't stop the production of more malfunctioning cars in the future does it. Gee, I wonder why.

If at the end of her argument she implied that whoever doesn't do so, cares not for her man,everything considered, why can't I pick on that? You should read the slowest way ever possible.

If only I was grasping at straws and when you put it like that, if more practitioners behaved in a particular way, not intended from origin, wouldn't it only be wise to have a look at what could be prompting such? We've looked and have realised that some rules governing the system is a contributing factor, the onus is on us to do away with such setbacks, no? No one is pointing a gun, yet many men are miserable because a woman said 'no' some have even been known to kill themselves, okay o.

We shall.

Read me right, cars known, emphasis on the word "known" to malfunction.

You know any manufacturers manufacturing malfunctioning cars on purpose? Abeg let me in, we can make some cash off of them.

EnlightenedSoul:


And who, pray, doesn't value good food? It appears you're incredibly general on men being good cooks, but 'not having the patience'. What does that even mean? Is there a special patience that women have for it I wasn't aware of?

As it were, if that were his style/outlook (a major criterion of his choosing a wife being that she be a good cook), he certainly failed miserably in that he chose one whom is apparently neither as skilled as him in the art nor feels obligated to do so, don't you think?

Ah, another potential wheel re-inventor?

Women have been known to be the calmer of the sexes. The more sensitive, the more caring, etc. Women make better nurturers than men, that's a fact. It is because of this and other proclivities that gender roles exist in the first place, you know specialisation and all? Of course, you're free to disagree on that.

Nobody is disagreeing that the guy in the OP's story is and ass. However, the woman also is

freecocoa:
If at the end of her argument she implied that whoever doesn't do so, cares not for her man,everything considered, why can't I pick on that? You should read the slowest way ever possible.

If only I was grasping at straws and when you put it like that, if more practitioners behaved in a particular way, not intended from origin, wouldn't it only be wise to have a look at what could be prompting such? We've looked and have realised that some rules governing the system is a contributing factor, the onus is on us to do away with such setbacks, no?

No one is pointing a gun, yet many men are miserable because a woman said 'no' some have even been known to kill themselves, okay o.

We shall.

Read me right, cars known, emphasis on the word "known" to malfunction.

You know any manufacturers manufacturing malfunctioning cars on purpose? Abeg let me in, we can make some cash off of them.

You need to speed up your reading, apparently, reading slowly isn't having the desired effect

Maybe we should at cancelling the need for money or the rules governing the exchange of it because of the prevalence of fraud. The point is systems will be abused till dinosaurs make a comeback.

And? How does men becoming miserable account for the desperation of your sisters to appear on bellaniaja weddings? So, you're saying they are desperate to marry to please these men then?

Almost all car manufacturers have made faulty vehicles and have had to recall millions of their products. The idea is to tweak and recalibrate, not condemn or reinvent the automobile as a failed contraption.

You think the originators of marriage and its roles deliberately designed a "faulty" institution?

Timbuktou:


Unfair to whom, exactly? You speak for all the women of the world now?

So, have you encouraged her to do better. Or is she past any saving?

Where you claim indoctrinated, I would say poorly educated, in fact, because these women don't seem to know what a good marriage entails.

The African woman's plight is very much thoroughly exaggerated. Whatever merit there is to it has been this "plight" has been blown out of proportion

I speak for myself, the ones that agree with me and if you consider the ones who believe they have no say in the matter, then yea, you can say I'm speaking for "all" women.

She's late and she did strive to make changes, she succeeded in some, I'm continuing the struggle.

I will agree with a mix of the two, you can't take away indoctrination from it.

Well, I will be honest and say, things are a lot better than they used to be, but there's still room for improvement.

freecocoa:
I speak for myself, the ones that agree with me and if you consider the ones who believe they have no say in the matter, then yea, you can say I'm speaking for "all" women.

She's late and she did strive to make changes, she succeeded in some, I'm continuing the struggle.

I will agree with a mix of the two, you can't take away indoctrination from it.

Well, I will be honest and say, things are a lot better than they used to be, but there's still room for improvement.

Alas, you, your allies and those deprived of the power to speak do equal all women. Thankfully, of course.

Oh, sorry about your loss. Good luck on your quest then.

Poor education is the problem. Everybody is indoctrinated at some level and on some philosophy or other.

Good luck pushing for your improvement. You should know however, that what females would regard as unspoken privileges are also being questioned by men. In the end, it's all about balance.

Timbuktou:


Ah, another potential wheel re-inventor?

Women have been known to be the calmer of the sexes. The more sensitive, the more caring, etc. Women make better nurturers than men, that's a fact. It is because of this and other proclivities that gender roles exist in the first place, you know specialisation and all? Of course, you're free to disagree on that.

Nobody is disagreeing that the guy in the OP's story is and ass. However, the woman also is

Well, you're also free to believe as you wish. The information is out there, and I've no desire for the potential back-and-forth if you're now come to tell me that there's more "patience" in cooking on the basis of sex because "all women are nurturers", wherein the act of picking up a wok in the traditional model is apparently nurturing, but the act of being the "provider" is in no way "nurturing", and requires little or no "patience" whatsoever. Quite the rickety premise, indeed.

Anyhoo, its because of these differences in opinion and expectation that these subjects are best broached pre-nuptial proceedings. We're not of one cloth, obviously. Who knows?

Timbuktou:


You need to speed up your reading, apparently, reading slowly isn't having the desired effect

Maybe we should at cancelling the need for money or the rules governing the exchange of it because of the prevalence of fraud. The point is systems will be abused till dinosaurs make a comeback.

And? How does men becoming miserable account for the desperation of your sisters to appear on bellaniaja weddings? So, you're saying they are desperate to marry to please these men then?

Almost all car manufacturers have made faulty vehicles and have had to recall millions of their products. The idea is to tweak and recalibrate, not condemn or reinvent the automobile as a failed contraption.

You think the originators of marriage and its roles deliberately designed a "faulty" institution?

Lol, my reading is absolutely fine dear, I just refuse to accept I was in the wrong when I wasn't.

Exactly, we frown on/fight against fraud, don't we? if certain rules in a system encourages fraud, we make new rules, no?

I'm saying the men want the marriage too enough to be miserable about it and commit suicide, well, the not so smart women may actually care about Bellanaija than they do the men/the type of marriage I'm talking about.

Again, it is not marriage that I find faulty, it is the roles, just like manufacturers will throw out an irreparable part, bringing in an entirely new one, so should some new rules be made, is all I'm saying, may have been deliberate, may not have been, but from the look of things, it tilts more on the deliberate side.

EnlightenedSoul:


Well, you're also free to believe as you wish. The information is out there, and I've no desire for the potential back-and-forth if you're now come to tell me that there's more "patience" in cooking on the basis of sex because "all women are nurturers", wherein the act of picking up a wok in the traditional model is apparently nurturing, but the act of being the "provider" is in no way nurturing, and requires little or no "patience" whatsoever. Quite the rickety premise, indeed.

Anyhoo, its because of these differences in opinion and expectation that these subjects are best brooched pre-nuptial proceedings. We're not of one cloth, obviously.

Non-nurturing women are an anomaly and should be pitied, like a man with low sperm count and no testoterone.

And now that you do mention it, we really are not of the same quality and yes, a back-and-forth with you would be useless.

Timbuktou:


Alas, you, your allies and those deprived of the power to speak do equal all women. Thankfully, of course.

Oh, sorry about your loss. Good luck on your quest then.

Poor education is the problem. Everybody is indoctrinated at some level and on some philosophy or other.

Good luck pushing for your improvement. You should know however, that what females would regard as unspoken privileges are also being questioned by men. In the end, it's all about balance.

Thank you.


I was referring to cultural indoctrination, I thought you knew that, I agree it's all about balance but there is no balance yet, if there was, believe me, we won't be having this conversation, I'm not unreasonable.

Timbuktou:


[s]Non-nurturing women are an anomaly and should be pitied, like a man with low sperm count and no testoterone.[/s]

And now that you do mention it, we really are not of the same quality and yes, a back-and-forth with you would be useless.

No parrallel @ the crossed out.

Ah, then it's amicable as I return the sentiment utterly and in all respects.

freecocoa:
Lol, my reading is absolutely fine dear, I just refuse to accept I was in the wrong when I wasn't.

Exactly, we frown on/fight against fraud, don't we? if certain rules in a system encourages fraud, we make new rules, no?

I'm saying the men want the marriage too enough to be miserable about it and commit suicide, well, the not so smart women may actually care about Bellanaija than they do the men/the type of marriage I'm talking about.

Again, it is not marriage that I find faulty, it is the roles, just like manufacturers will throw out an irreparable part, bringing in an entirely new one, so should some new rules be made, is all I'm saying, may have been deliberate, may not have been, but from the look of things, it tilts more on the deliberate side.

That's ok. We are both right even though we both disagree with each other.

Yes, we do make new rules to correct abuse or we can just be more forthright in following the already fair ones and institute appropriate controls.

This is laughable. Everybody knows for a fact that the proportion of men who commit suicide over spurned love to women desperate to marry is like 1:200 million. And I'd wager these men are more feminine that other men in nature or have made unquantifiable investments that a marriage would be more beneficial to them than even being single. And if the women care more about BN than the important things, are men to blame for that too, or the so-called designers of marriage? women should learn to take responsibility for themselves. Only you can make yourself happy ultimately.

Unfortunately, bad drivers do not get to have a say in how cars are made or which parts are deemed not good enough. That role is left for those who have proven to be dependable, responsible, observant drivers. Accidents may be caused by faulty machines or bad operators. In the case of marriage, I'd fault the operators.

EnlightenedSoul:



[s]h, it is amicable then as I return the sentiment utterly and in all respects. [/s

Back at you, sweety.

freecocoa:
Thank you.


I was referring to cultural indoctrination, I thought you knew that,

I agree it's all about balance but there is no balance yet, if there was, believe me, we won't be having this conversation, I'm not unreasonable.

You're welcome.

How do you teach culture without indoctrination? Indoctrination is neither good nor bad or maybe I'm missing your point. My point, however, is that the indoctrination process has been poorly carried out, hence, my reference to poor education. Which could be the reason Jennifer made the bad training comment

Reinventing the wheel won't bring about balance. The operator of the system will.

Timbuktou:


That's ok. We are both right even though we both disagree with each other.

Yes, we do make new rules to correct abuse or we can just be more forthright in following the already fair ones and institute appropriate controls.

This is laughable. Everybody knows for a fact that the proportion of men who commit suicide over spurned love to women desperate to marry is like 1:200 million. And I'd wager these men are more feminine that other men in nature or have made unquantifiable investments that a marriage would be more beneficial to them than even being single. And if the women care more about BN than the important things, are men to blame for that too, or the so-called designers of marriage? women should learn to take responsibility for themselves. Only you can make yourself happy ultimately.

Unfortunately, bad drivers do not get to have a say in how cars are made or which parts are deemed not good enough. That role is left for those who have proven to be dependable, responsible, observant drivers. Accidents may be caused by faulty machines or bad operators. In the case of marriage, I'd fault the operators.

If you agree we can make new rules, let's stick with that.

I would never argue on the figures because you are very correct even though you exaggerated but still, now why is this so is a question one would ask? Yes the men should be blamed to an extent because they set the tone for it, like you'll argue that it's not always been a man's world? Care to explain what that even means? Just incase I have a wrong idea of it. We take responsibility alright, we just want to make sure those responsibilities are really ours, will I be fighting with my hubby on who should carry the baby in their belly between us? I agree only you can be responsible for your happiness but societal norms say otherwise.

You can't heap the blame of a faulty vehicle on the driver, I agree there are bad drivers alright, I am saying, that a bad vehicle will malfunction, driver or not. You can't blame me for following a shitty rule, the fault is on you for making the rule shitty in the first place.

freecocoa:
Lol, seems you all are coming up with theories accompanied by swanky quotes, which can be patented good one, but fortunately/unfortunately, theories get disproved all the time, therefore I don't agree with you.

You can't speak for all men, and you can also either take it or leave it.

Plus this isn't even a matter of liking it or not, it is more about what works best, that's why it's a partnership, compromise comes to mind.

We are saying the same thing but you don't see it yet... Open your eyes, nose, and ears now...

Of course, it was always about partnership and compromise... but like I typed earlier and I repeat, ' NO man will want to be the main/chief cook in his home (even if he was injected with an overdose of compromise and partnership) for as long as he is married...read that again, NO MAN! '

That there is the cold-hearted truth, but we all know how you women love the fantasies and can't seem to wrap your pretty little heads around the hard-knocks...

Yes, I spoke for all men again...deal with it, whether you like it or not.

Timbuktou:


Back at you, sweety.

Lol. It's already been said. Don't create a circle now - I'll have you know I'm not too fond of circles. G'day!

Timbuktou:


You're welcome.

How do you teach culture without indoctrination? Indoctrination is neither good nor bad or maybe I'm missing your point. My point, however, is that the indoctrination process has been poorly carried out, hence, my reference to poor education. Which could be the reason Jennifer made the bad training comment

Reinventing the wheel won't bring about balance. The operator of the system will.

Okay then but it's like you missed my point, it being that, the beliefs being indoctrinated is the problem, how then can it be the process if the idea to be indoctrinated is not so great in itself?

Reinventing the wheel to bring a balance, will bring balance. The wheel was originally designed to be unbalanced, there's no way the operator could've operated it to function in a balanced state.

crackhaus:

We are saying the same thing but you don't see it yet... Open your eyes, nose, and ears now...

Of course, it was always about partnership and compromise... but like I typed earlier and I repeat, ' NO[/b]man will want to be the main/chief cook in his home (even if he was injected with an overdose of compromise and partnership) for as long as he is married...read that again, [b]NO MAN! '

That there is the cold-hearted truth, but we all know how you women love the fantasies and can't seem to wrap your pretty little heads around the hard-knocks...

Yes, I spoke for all men again...deal with it, whether you like it or not.

You'll also have to deal with my not agreeing with that, whether you like it or not. Btw, you seem not to understand that it's no longer about what he wants, if he's compromising in the first place, how is his wants important?