The likelihood is that the verse has been misinterpreted and then mistranslated from the original Hebrew.

The translation direct from Hebrew is this:

Abraham got up in the morning and took bread and a skin of water and gave to Hagar placing on her shoulder and the child and sent her out and she went and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

Reading that, the inference is not that he placed the child on her shoulder but that he gave her the child.

It should probably read like this:

Abraham got up in the morning and took bread and a skin of water, gave it to Hagar (placing it on her shoulder), gave her the child and sent her out, etc.

One has to remember that ancient Hebrew has very few instances of grammatical punctuation. Only when we add punctuation and common sense can we see what the author probably meant.

And did your koran tell you her age, or did it tell you she was deflowered by any man before the birth of Jesus? Olodo, why not do you mathematics again and tell us ther age when she gave birth to Jesus, Slave mathematician, if even i need to enroll for maths lesson, i will not enroll with a slave cos i'm not a slave, i'm A CHILD OF THE MOST HIGH.

Noetic & david, una well done worshippers of d cross, is dat wat jesus ask u to address his father a?k.a GOD? shame on u

abuzola, well done too, you slave of allah, are you willing to know and understand who Jesus is? or just want to much him like your fellow slaves did?, if you do not know, "In the beginning was the word(JESUS), and the word(JESUS) was with God and the word(JESUS) was God" and for your benefit, muhammad was a fraudster of all time, someone said, if islam had come in form of a government, then it would had been fought right from the onset andbe defeated cos he saw no different between islam and communism practised in russia fought against by the US. even compare the life of JESUS and MUHAMMAD and you will see the difference. the difference between a Saviour and a Slave, a Delieverer and a Destroyer. In your quran where are prophets like Samuel, Nathan, Amos, Micah, Hosea,and others. so do not give that crab shit here on NL.

@Bastage

The translation direct from Hebrew is this:


Quote
Abraham got up in the morning and took bread and a skin of water and gave to Hagar placing on her shoulder and the child and sent her out and she went and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

Reading that, the inference is not that he placed the child on her shoulder but that he gave her the child.

It should probably read like this:


Quote
Abraham got up in the morning and took bread and a skin of water, gave it to Hagar (placing it on her shoulder), gave her the child and sent her out, etc.

One has to remember that ancient Hebrew has very few instances of grammatical punctuation. Only when we add punctuation and common sense can we see what the author probably meant.

I dont have problem with the bible but your post showed that some of the authors were not inspired when they wrote the bible.

Since you claimed that it should have been 'gave her the child, please what explanatiuon do you have for the versions quoted and do you care to show me your Hebrew bible you culled your 'supposed translation' from


Genesis 21

14-21

14 Early next morning Abraham took some food and a full water-skin and gave them to Hagar. He set the child on her shoulder and sent her away, and she wandered about in the wilderness of Beersheba.


Read this too:from NRSV

14 Early next morning, Abraham took some bread and a skin of water and, giving them to Hagar, put the child on her shoulder and sent her away. She wandered off into the desert of Beersheba.


Bastage, dont befool yourself. I am not a novice when it comes to bible reading. Denying the above would show that your authors were not under any inspiration but wrote what they felt they should.

@Todak

And did your koran tell you her age, or did it tell you she was deflowered by any man before the birth of Jesus? Olodo, why not do you mathematics again and tell us ther age when she gave birth to Jesus, Slave mathematician, if even i need to enroll for maths lesson, i will not enroll with a slave cos i'm not a slave, i'm A CHILD OF THE MOST HIGH.

I asked you a question since you have been displaying ignorance all these while and do you care to tell me what age Mary got pregnant and we look at it since you have problem with that of Aisha

The slave mathematician have done his mathematics and come to a conclusion what mary's age is, after all, her name was mentioned in the quran, tell us her age from the quran.You can post your falsehood for all to see, i wish you can use your mathematics to calculate how many days God created the heaven and the earth as it contradict itself in the quran. slave mathematician, its up to you

babs787:


I dont have problem with the bible but your post showed that some of the authors were not inspired when they wrote the bible.

No. It's absolutely nothing to do with writing the Bible. It's to do with translating the Bible.
It doesn't fill me with much belief when it comes to your next quote:

Bastage, dont befool yourself. I am not a novice when it comes to bible reading. Denying the above would show that your authors were not under any inspiration but wrote what they felt they should.

Well, actually, if you can't tell the difference between translating and authoring, I'd say that you are a novice. Either that or just plain ignorant.

As for the Hebrew?

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0121.htm

I'm sure a "great Bible scholar" such as yourself will be able to translate the Hebrew and tell me if I'm right or wrong.

@Bastage

Well, actually, if you can't tell the difference between translating and authoring, I'd say that you are a novice. Either that or just plain ignorant.

Come off it man. We have heard so many times that the bible was written by inspiration. So going by your above quote, do we say God didnt inspire them when they were translating or authoring?

I dont have problem with the Hebrew and I showed you versions claiming different thing in the inspired words of God? Do we blame the authors for not being inspired?

Let us read from the link you supplied:

14 And Abraham arose up early in the morning, and took bread and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away; and she departed, and strayed in the wilderness of Beer-sheba.

In the above sentence, the verse says 'took bread and a bottle of water and gave it unto Hagar' [/b]showing that Bread and a bottle of water were put on Hagar's shoulder.

The next sentence reads [b]'and the child'. The phrase didnt say he handed over the child to her nor on her shoulder but said he took bread and a bottle of water and put it on Hagar's shoulder.

'and sent her away' should have been 'and sent them away'. This further shows that the bible was silent on the position of the child and your Hebrew translation shows nothing of what you have been drumming. Also do we say the authors were not under any guidance?

So over to you.

@Todak

Babs do not tell me you did not seee my post, do not evade that, the only mathematician of the NLers, you should help with the calculation of the days allah created the heavens and earth as it contradicts itself in the quran. awaiting your reply

While I wait for Bastage's response, let me quickly go through your post. It seems you have no knowledge with regards to the biblical verses but Bastage tried but still did not tally.

So dude, quickly serve me the contradictions and lets us read it together. I remembered lecturing one of you here on the days of creation.

So let me have the verses posted here ASAP.

We have heard so many times that the bible was written by inspiration. So going by your above quote, do we say God didnt inspire them when they were translating or authoring?

Translators translate. Nobody claims that they were inspired by god. Nobody at all.
Translating is an academic task - not a spiritual one.

Obviously, just like everything else, this simple fact is beyond you.

@Bastage

Translators translate. Nobody claims that they were inspired by god. Nobody at all.
Translating is an academic task - not a spiritual one.

Obviously, just like everything else, this simple fact is beyond you.

OK. You may check 2nd Timothy 3 v 16 for that

ok, then, i will furnish you with it:

How Many Days Did It Take To Create Heavens And Earth?
(Koran 7:54)
Your guardian-Lord is Allah. Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days,
(Koran 10:3)
he Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days,
(Koran 11:7)
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX days,
(Koran 25:29)
He Who created the heavens And the earth and all that is between, in SIX days,

The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and the earth in 6 days. But the verses stated below contradict the above verses and imply that it took God 8 days to create the heaven and the earth. Read carefully and add up the numbers.

(Koran 41:9)
Is it that ye Deny Him who created the earth in TWO days?,
(Koran 41:10)
He set on the (earth). Mountains standing firm,high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR days,
(Koran 41:12)
So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO days and,

Do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2(for heavens) = 8 NOT 6
This implies that Allah or probably Mohammed did not know how to add integers. God cannot make an error in doing simple calculations, however Mohammed, as you will see, being an illiterate was very capable of making such errors.

babs787:

@Bastage
OK. You may check 2nd Timothy 3 v 16 for that

LMAO. The pathetic Sola Scriptura argument.
It's been blown out of the water so many times, I'm not even going to bother.

There have been 1000s of authorised translations of the Bible from ancient to modern times. Nobody but a fundamentalist fool would claim that those translators are any more inspired than the next guy. Nobody but a complete slowpoke would suggest Timothy is an advocate for Sola Scriptura.

It seems moving from Christianity to Islam was definitely the right move for you. You've just moved from having your head up your ass to shoving it in even deeper.

@babs747 or wateva,
it's either you're incredibly stupid or purposely daft, can't you understand the difference between an author and a translator, it's no suprise,what do you expect from a follower of a peodophile,i might as well call micheal jackson 'holy prophet'

babs787:

@Olaadegbu


Please I want to get you very clear here. Are you saying there are no contradictions in that book called bible?

Yes.  If you claim that there are any contradictions in the Bible then you are not a good muslim, as your religion teaches you that the word of God cannot be corrupted and that God is capable and able to keep His Words from corruption.

babs787:

Spare that excuse please. cWehre have you been when your brothers have been posting lies here and there, pretending not to see when answers were provided. You could tell that to your folks but not  me and you that claimed to be their Messiah, have you been able to debunk my claim in that thread on deification of Jesus?

The fact that my brothers or myself do not reply you is because it would be an exercise in futility.  The answers that you think you are providing are just plain denials and circular reasonings.  If you want to understand the Bible your Qur'an has instructed you to ask the people of the book, who are the people of the book?

babs787:

They couldnt answer because they have no answers and you that answered also got it wrong. I would give you versions to see who lied between you and your bible.

Do you see what happens to those who have rejected the truth of the Bible?  God gives them over to a reprobate mind to believe a lie, being deceived they end up deceiving others. No wonder you will continue to gravitate towards those who will lead you into deeper deception because you have refused to imbibe and believe the truth.

babs787:

You claimed in the above that Ishmael was not put on Hagar backs but let us quickly peruse some versions of the book to see the truth:

Does it mean that the boy cannot fend for himself at that age?
Do you say these versions are lying?

KJV

21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.


Genesis 21

14-21

14 Early next morning Abraham took some food and a full water-skin and gave them to Hagar. He set the child on her shoulder and sent her away, and she wandered about in the wilderness of Beersheba.


Read this too:[/b]from [b]NRSV

14 Early next morning, Abraham took some bread and a skin of water and, giving them to Hagar, put the child on her shoulder and sent her away. She wandered off into the desert of Beersheba.

Which should we take? Can a 17 year old kid be put on the shoulder?

If the verses and chapters leading to and after the verse that you got stuck on says that Ishmael was a teenager (lad), and you insist on seeing him as a baby then your blindness that you are in is a very dark one, and until you open your eyes and see the glorious light of the gospel of Christ you will continue to remain in your darkness. See what he was called in the following verses 12, 17- 20, and (Gen.17:1,25; 21:5,.

babs787:

@Todak

While I wait for Bastage's response, let me quickly go through your post. It seems you have no knowledge with regards to the biblical verses but Bastage tried but still did not tally.

So dude, quickly serve me the contradictions and lets us read it together. I remembered lecturing one of you here on the days of creation.

So let me have the verses posted here ASAP.

You asked for it and don't complain when we table them before you in their categories.  Here are a few of them for you to chew on.

HISTORICAL ERRORS:

1.      Ishmael and Isaac confused.  Surah. 37:102
2.      One tree in Eden, not two trees.  Surah. 20:120
3.      Noah's fourth son drowns.  Surah. 11:43
4.      Zechariah silent 3 days (rather than 9 months).  Surah. 3:41
5.      Pharoah's magicians repent.  Surah. 20:70
6.      Judges 7 (Gideon), 1 Sam 17 (saul) confused.  Surah. 2:249
7.      Jesus' childhood miracles.   Surah. 3:49, 5:110, 19:30


SCIENTIFIC ERRORS:

1. The sun and stars orbits the earth.  Surah. 21:33
2. Eleven planets.  Surah 12
3. A piece of the sky falls and kills someone. Surah. 34:9, 52:44
4. King David makes an iron coat of mail.  Surah. 34:11
5. The sun sets into a muddy spring.  Surah. 18:86
6. Misconceptions about conception: sperm? Clot of blood? baby?  Surah. 23:14, 36:4
7. Seven heavens.  Sun, stars in the lowest heaven.  Surah. 41:12

If you live in a glass house don't throw stones.

Thanks Olaadegbu, i had wanted to give it to him, one after the other, for proper clearance, so that he would not miss any of the hit and the sweet mouthed muhammad who claim to be spoken to by an angel. (angel of darkness). so thanks, but there are more from me. babs expect more but it will be one after the other, ok. GOd bless you Ola, and for my most argumentative slave of allah, i do not know what to say to greet you , oh oh oh oh , i can figure something, ok, in the name of allah, the most destructive, the most hater of mankind, and the inspirer of the likes of Khomieni, arafat, osama, i greet you. cheers!! , do not be offended, i saw not good thing in calling allah merciful or whatever jaguns you people say,

hello, everybody sorry i have not been contributing here for quite a while.

The reason for that is simple, the questions and answers have become too repetitive for my liking hence it has become too boring, hence rather than waste my time repeating the same answers over and over again, I decided to go over to go an flirt with some people over at the romance section e.g. FL Gators aka Ebony Silk.

Boredom can be an annoying thing, I have seen enough of babs787 and olabowale's repetitive/boring questions and incoherent answers (as a sign of how boring the religions thread has become)



, Adios Al Taqiya wielding Imams,


By the babs787 and olabowale, you better bribe me with Mukina or else,

@No2atheism

The reason for that is simple, the questions and answers have become too repetitive for my liking hence it has become too boring, hence rather than waste my time repeating the same answers over and over again, I decided to go over to go an flirt with some people over at the romance section e.g. FL Gators aka Ebony Silk.

Boredom can be an annoying thing, I have seen enough of babs787 and olabowale's repetitive/boring questions and incoherent answers (as a sign of how boring the religions thread has become)

That should go to your folks that have derive pleasure in 'redressing questions', going in circles and saying nothing sensible.

You may give me my repetitive questions and answers here. Let stop here because I have lots of posts to attend to.

@Todak


I could not see you in this thread again:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-256685.32.html

Hope its not cowardice


I have no time for story teling because I am tired of you people, recycling same old stories.

it's either you're incredibly stupid or purposely daft, can't you understand the difference between an author and a translator, it's no suprise,what do you expect from a follower of a peodophile,i might as well call micheal jackson 'holy prophet'

None of the above sir. Are your translators under any inspiration?

ok, then, i will furnish you with it:

How Many Days Did It Take To Create Heavens And Earth?
(Koran 7:54)
Your guardian-Lord is Allah. Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days,
(Koran 10:3)
he Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days,
(Koran 11:7)
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX days,
(Koran 25:29)
He Who created the heavens And the earth and all that is between, in SIX days,

The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and the earth in 6 days. But the verses stated below contradict the above verses and imply that it took God 8 days to create the heaven and the earth. Read carefully and add up the numbers.

(Koran 41:9)
Is it that ye Deny Him who created the earth in TWO days?,
(Koran 41:10)
He set on the (earth). Mountains standing firm,high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR days,
(Koran 41:12)
So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO days and,

Do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2(for heavens) = 8 NOT 6
This implies that Allah or probably Mohammed did not know how to add integers. God cannot make an error in doing simple calculations, however Mohammed, as you will see, being an illiterate was very capable of making such errors.

Here is the link where I lectured one of your brothers on your 'dressed questions'
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33066.0.html

@Bastage


@Bastage

LMAO. The pathetic Sola Scriptura argument.
It's been blown out of the water so many times, I'm not even going to bother.

Where was that. You are being ignorant or plain stupid by saying thar it has been blown out of water. Go ask a christian and they would refer what I said

There have been 1000s of authorised translations of the Bible from ancient to modern times. Nobody but a fundamentalist fool would claim that those translators are any more inspired than the next guy. Nobody but a complete slowpoke would suggest Timothy is an advocate for Sola Scriptura.

Oga, I dont know your problem since you are an atheist and no christian, I repeat that no christian would deny that verse because it forms part of their arguments. Abeg get a life if you know nothing about christianity.

It seems moving from Christianity to Islam was definitely the right move for you. You've just moved from having your head up your ass to shoving it in even deeper.

Sorry dude. My reversion has been justifiable. Average christian would tell you that the bible is 100% inspired word of God, so whats the fuss about? I am not being deceived like you.

@Olaadegbu

Yes. If you claim that there are any contradictions in the Bible then you are not a good muslim, as your religion teaches you that the word of God cannot be corrupted and that God is capable and able to keep His Words from corruption.

Stop crying foul here , my Quran didnt say the bible but Injil and Torah and could you tell me where God revealed the bible or who he gave the bible to?

Is the torah today the same as the one Jesus used? Quran came because of the corruption, go read Jeremiah and stop deceiving yourself

The fact that my brothers or myself do not reply you is because it would be an exercise in futility. The answers that you think you are providing are just plain denials and circular reasonings. If you want to understand the Bible your Qur'an has instructed you to ask the people of the book, who are the people of the book?

Where are the plain denials, have you been able to explain the deification of Jesus in that thread on Trinity with reference to the supplied verses? Feed me the verse and let me lecture you on that? When you are through, I would explain to you who the people of the book are and would also tell you that early christians are different from you. Go on serve me the verse, I want to learn from the educated 'people of the book'

Do you see what happens to those who have rejected the truth of the Bible? God gives them over to a reprobate mind to believe a lie, being deceived they end up deceiving others. No wonder you will continue to gravitate towards those who will lead you into deeper deception because you have refused to imbibe and believe the truth.

What truth oga. Save that crap. You cant at this stage blindfold me. I was part and parcel of you before my reversion, so save that preaching and my posts speak for me. I am happy as a Muslim and would die as one.

If the verses and chapters leading to and after the verse that you got stuck on says that Ishmael was a teenager (lad), and you insist on seeing him as a baby then your blindness that you are in is a very dark one, and until you open your eyes and see the glorious light of the gospel of Christ you will continue to remain in your darkness. See what he was called in the following verses 12, 17- 20, and (Gen.17:1,25; 21:5,.

Stop the ranting for a moment . Why the fuss when I quoted your bible for you ? All I aksed for is:

What age was Ishmael when sent away?
Do we say he was put on Hagar's back or
do we say he was handed over to Hagar?

@Olaadegbu

Let us see what you termed contradictions.

You asked for it and don't complain when we table them before you in their categories. Here are a few of them for you to chew on.

RFLMAO . It is very glaring that you didnt read the verses before lifting them from one of your websites but would take the pain to lecture since you are ignorant of what you posted and you happened to be my very good friend

HISTORICAL ERRORS:


1. Ishmael and Isaac confused. Surah. 37:102

Let us read the verses please:

100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"

101. So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.

Does the above portray Isaac?[/b]


102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"

Oga, read again. Isaac was not born when the incident happened.[b]

112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.

113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.

So you have seen that your bible contradicted and misled you when it said Isaac was sacrificed, saying 'take thy only son'. How could Isaac be the only son when Ishmael was alive? Even if he was not living with his father, Ishmael would still occupy the first position unless he dies. Put your thinking cap on and reason, can you deny the first its right simply because he is not staying with his parent/ He would still be as lng as he is still alive.

Judge your bible oga

2. One tree in Eden, not two trees. Surah. 20:120

Let us read the verse:

120. But Satan whispered evil to him: he said, "O Adam! shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?"

121. In the result, they both ate of the tree, and so their unclothedness appeared to them: they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from the Garden: thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced.

Olaadegbu, I couldnt see two trees in those verses and where on earth did you see yours please?[/color]

3. Noah's fourth son drowns. Surah. 11:43

Let us read again:

43. The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy! "And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.

Fourth son was not mentioned oga. Why not read first rather lying? [color=#990000]

4. Zechariah silent 3 days (rather than 9 months). Surah. 3:41

Let us read. Hope you are not tired of doing that?

41. He said: "O my Lord! Give me a Sign!" "Thy Sign," was the answer, "Shall be that thou shalt speak[b] to no man for three days but with signals[/b]. Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again, and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning."

Where did you see 9 months? :oHow could someone not speak for nine months

5. Pharoah's magicians repent. Surah. 20:70

70. So the magicians were thrown down to prostration: they said, "We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses".

Where is the contradiction?[color=#990000][/color]


More coming,

Continuation


@Olaadegbu

6. Judges 7 (Gideon), 1 Sam 17 (saul) confused. Surah. 2:249

When did you start reasoning like David, Todak, Noetic etc? The story may looks similar but the accounts are different. Are you saying we dont have similar stories in the bible?

If you had been honest to yourself, you would have seen that the story differs in such that:

Quran 2 v 246: Hast thou not Turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? they said to a prophet (That was) among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of Allah." He said: "Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that that ye will not fight?" They said: "How could we refuse to fight in the cause of Allah, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and our families?" but when they were commanded to fight, they turned back, except a small band among them. But Allah Has full knowledge of those who do wrong.

In the above verse, they needed a king as opposed to biblical account

The next verse follows:

247.: Their Prophet said to them: "(Allah) hath appointed Talut as king over you." They said: "How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?" He said: "(Allah) hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: Allah Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things."

Are you getting it:

249: When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: "Allah will test you at the stream: if any drinks of its water, He goes not with my army: Only those who taste not of it go with me: A mere sip out of the hand is excused." but they all drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the river,- He and the faithful ones with him,- they said: "This day We cannot cope with Goliath and his forces." but those who were convinced that they must meet Allah, said: "How oft, by Allah's will, Hath a small force vanquished a big one? Allah is with those who steadfastly persevere."


Hre is biblical account:

Now therefore go to, proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, Whosoever is fearful and afraid, let him return and depart early from mount Gilead. And there returned of the people twenty and two thousand; and there remained ten thousand[/b]. 4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go. 5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon,[b] Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink. 6 And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people [b]bowed down upon their knees to drink water. 7 And the LORD said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand[/b]: and let all the other people go every man unto his place. 8 So the people took victuals in their hand, and their trumpets: and he sent all the rest of Israel every man unto his tent, and retained those three hundred men: and the host of Midian was beneath him in the valley.

Having deduced that, we could see that the stories differ in the sense that the children of Israel needed a king because they wanted to fight but were given a king they didnt like and were tested to show how serious they really wanted to fight.

Get your fact right oga Olaadegbu

7.      Jesus' childhood miracles.   Surah. 3:49, 5:110, 19:30

3v 49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

Where is the contradiction oga[/color]



5:110:

Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

Where is the contradiction again?[color=#990000]

19:30
30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;


Where is it again?[/color]

SCIENTIFIC ERRORS:

The sun and stars orbits the earth.  Surah. 21:33

Let us read:
33. It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.

[color=#990000]Oga, dod you read the verse before posting?[/b]

Eleven planets.  Surah 12

Didnt get this

A piece of the sky falls and kills someone. Surah. 34:9, 52:44

Must you lie Olaadegbu, I dont expect this from your type

This is the verse:

Surah. 34:9


9. See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, [b]We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).

Are you sayng you understand simple English language

AND

52:44 Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"

Where is your contradiction?[/color]


King David makes an iron coat of mail. 

Surah. 34:11

11. (Commanding), "Make thou coast of mail, balancing well the rings of chain armour, and work ye righteousness; for be sure I see (clearly) all that ye do."

Na wa for you oooooooooo [color=#990000]

More coming

Has anyone observed allah's obsession with the jews? Why are VIRTUALLY ALL the stories in the quran about the Jews and NONE about the alleged firstborn of Abraham (Ishmael)?

where are the ishmaelite journeys, kings of old, prophets?

why has EVERY story in the quran SURPRISINGLY got a similar one in the bible?

@Olaadegbu

The sun sets into a muddy spring.  Surah. 18:86

83. They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."

84. Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.

85. One (such) way he followed,

86. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

87. He said: "Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).

“fi ra’y al-`ayn wa illa fahiya a’zamo min ad-dunya” meaning “it appeared to his own eyes otherwise the sun is bigger than the earth.”

The Qur’anic statement is clearly metaphorical and understood same.


From the book of tafseer:

“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun…”,

means that Zul Qarnain followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun’s setting, which is the west of the earth.

It is quite impossible for him to have reached wher the sun set.

“he found it setting in a muddy spring…” means that he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something that everyone who goes to the coast or beach can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea, but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. The muddy spring or hami’a[/b]h is derived from the word [b]hama’ah which means ‘mud’.

Olaadegbu, since you have problem with that, do we say Queen of the South came from the ends of the earth as claimed by your bible in Luke 11 v31:

The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one[i] greater than Solomon is here. ?

Misconceptions about conception: sperm? Clot of blood? baby?  Surah. 23:14, 36:4

Kai na wa for Olaadegbu

This is what I have in:
23:14

Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

Read this for understanding:

Quran 23 v 12-14: "Man we did create From a quintessence (of clay); Then we placed him As ( a drop of) sperm In a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then we made the sperm Into a clot of congealed blood; Then of that clot we made A (foetus) lump; then we Made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones With flesh; then WE developed Out of it another creature. So blessed be ALLAH, The Best to create!"

Or

Quran 22 v 5:                                                                                
"we created you Out of dust, then out of Sperm, then out of a leech-like Clot, then out of a morsel Of flesh, partly formed And partly unformed."

You posted this again:

36:4

This is the verse:

4. On a Straight Way. [/b]

Doesnt relate


[b]Seven heavens.  Sun, stars in the lowest heaven.  Surah. 41:12

This is the verse:

12. So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.


I cant see Sun in the lowest heaven therein.[color=#990000][/color]

"Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were one solid mass which We tore asunder, and that We made every living thing of water?" (AI-Anbia :30)

The Seven Heavens: After Allah created the Earth, He created the seven heavens. Each heaven is a solid body that is held up without any pillars. The heavens are separated. From one heaven to the other is a distance of five hundred (500) years, and every heaven has a gate.

"We made the heaven like a canopy and provided it with strong support; yet from its signs they turn away" (Al-Anbia :32).

When the earth gets near some of the orbits of these celestial bodies, they will fall down on earth as meteoriods or asteroids as a result of the force of its gravity.
But God's Mercy has saw to it that we have our atmospheric envelope to protect us and burn before it reaches the earth except in a few rare cases as said by Allah:
 
"He held the sky from falling down (that it shall not do) except by His own will. Compassionate is Allah and Mercifu is he to man" (AI-Hajj :65)

Heaven has stages and every individual would occupy the one that fits his deeds.
 

If you live in glass house don't throw stones.

I threw this and what have u done?

@Davidylan

Has anyone observed allah's obsession with the jews? Why are VIRTUALLY ALL the stories in the quran about the Jews and NONE about the alleged firstborn of Abraham (Ishmael)?

Dullard ./ It is there and we have argued this in several threads. Dont bring your ignorance here again

where are the ishmaelite journeys, kings of old, prophets?

why has EVERY story in the quran SURPRISINGLY got a similar one in the bible?

Olodo, do Torah, Injil, Quran not come from the same creator?

babs787:

@Olaadegbu

Stop crying foul here , my Quran didnt say the bible but Injil and Torah and could you tell me where God revealed the bible or who he gave the bible to?

The Torah and the Injil is in what we call the Holy Bible today. Ask any religious Jew who believes in the Torah you will find out that all the books Torah is what you will find in the 39 books of the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, unless you are referring to the RCC Bible that contains the apocrypha which is not the inspired word of God. If what you are referring to as the Injil is the synoptic gospels then you will find it in the New Testament of the Holy Bible unless you are thinking that the gnostic gospels are part of the Injil, and I believe that these have made their ways into your holy books as you claim that it was received from heaven. If the Torah and the Injil are not in our Bible can you please show me where they are, are they lost or are they now included in your Qur'an?

babs787:

Is the torah today the same as the one Jesus used? Quran came because of the corruption, go read Jeremiah and stop deceiving yourself

The Hebrew Bible which contains the Law, the prophets and the writings (Psalms) Luke 24:44 which was ratified by our Lord Jesus Christ in the passage above which is the same thing as we have in the Christian Bible Old Testament and all the apostles of the New Testament have not contradicted any of the prophets of the Old Testament in their writing of the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you insist that they have been corrupted then you are saying that God is so weak that He cannot keep His Words from corruption, is that what you are saying, or are you saying that He has kept it from corruption and if so where is it?

babs787:

Where are the plain denials, have you been able to explain the deification of Jesus in that thread on Trinity with reference to the supplied verses? Feed me the verse and let me lecture you on that? When you are through, I would explain to you who the people of the book are and would also tell you that early christians are different from you. Go on serve me the verse, I want to learn from the educated 'people of the book'

Have you seen the efforts of your brother in crime, Abuzola? How he tried unsuccessfully to deceive readers that I posted irrelevant verses. I don't know what you are talking about the deification of Jesus, go to the thread on how to describe trinity/godhead and see what I had to say about His deity, are you saying that you have not read them or that you missed them? You better abandon those Islamic glasses before they cause total blindness. So you are depending on me to remind you of the verse that says that you should learn from the people of the book! Is this because you have been spending most of your time reading the Bible that you think has been corrupted?

babs787:

What truth oga. Save that crap. You cant at this stage blindfold me. I was part and parcel of you before my reversion, so save that preaching and my posts speak for me. I am happy as a Muslim and would die as one.

Look at a blind man pretending to be asleep, is there any difference whether you close your eyes or not, you are still blindfolded so the fact that you now use opaque Islamic goggles does not change the fact that you are as blind as a bat. If you could see the light before you reverted back into darkness how dark is that darkness. A blind man who could see before he became blind would certainly know the difference between light and darkness but if he were to be born blind and then decided to put on dark opaque glassess what difference would it make? No man who was born blind and then eventually sees the light of the day will say that he prefers darkness to light. I said all this to say that you were never a Christian, you never new Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you might have been religious as many people are today but you never saw the light of the glorious gospel as revealed in the Bible.

babs787:

Stop the ranting for a moment . Why the fuss when I quoted your bible for you ? All I aksed for is:

What age was Ishmael when sent away?
Do we say he was put on Hagar's back or
do we say he was handed over to Hagar?

Answers to all these had been given by others and myself, I even gave you references to check up on but I don't think you really want to know the truth, what you want is just to argue blindly.

I've got to go now to attend to important issues and I'll be right back.

@Olaadegbu

The Torah and the Injil is in what we call the Holy Bible today. Ask any religious Jew who believes in the Torah you will find out that all the books Torah is what you will find in the 39 books of the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, unless you are referring to the RCC Bible that contains the apocrypha which is not the inspired word of God. If what you are referring to as the Injil is the synoptic gospels then you will find it in the New Testament of the Holy Bible unless you are thinking that the gnostic gospels are part of the Injil, and I believe that these have made their ways into your holy books as you claim that it was received from heaven. If the Torah and the Injil are not in our Bible can you please show me where they are, are they lost or are they now included in your Qur'an?

My dear friend, I dont know why I like you, maybe because you display maturity when responding to issues unlike some people .

Now with regards to Torah, it was given to Moses which could be said to be the first five books called the Pnetateuch but reading through the books, one would read where died and was buried in the same revelation given to Moses!!!

Also, if you are saying he was given the first five books, what of the other books and are you saying that they are part o the Torah given to Moses?

On Injil, Jesus was given a revelation or should we say a gospel and not Gospels bearing 'according to' which you claimed happened to be eye witness and when you read the bible, you would see that none was around but were copying each other and Luke even made that known.

What revelation Jesus used to preach because if you read the gospel, the intonation shows that it was written down after his demise and the letters of Paul are not supposed to be included because they are not the revelation sent to Jesus and shouldnt be part of Injil. The letters to corinthians etc should have been in a separate book just like we have sayings of the prophet not in the Quran.

I am not saying we should discard the whole of the bible but it has sayings that couldnt be ascribed to Jesus eg the unfulfilled prophecies etc. Reading through the book, one would see the traces of original revelation (having same stories/narration in both Quran and bible) sent to those prophets but have been edited to suite custom and particular set of people

The Hebrew Bible which contains the Law, the prophets and the writings (Psalms) Luke 24:44 which was ratified by our Lord Jesus Christ in the passage above which is the same thing as we have in the Christian Bible Old Testament and all the apostles of the New Testament have not contradicted any of the prophets of the Old Testament in their writing of the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you insist that they have been corrupted then you are saying that God is so weak that He cannot keep His Words from corruption, is that what you are saying, or are you saying that He has kept it from corruption and if so where is it?

Brother, maybe if I take you through the cannons of the bible, you would realize the truth. The original message is lost and people had to edit,remove, insert stories to make up the lost ones and that is the reason you see words contradicting each other, chapters plagiarising each other, suppossed authors copying same thing etc.

Its because of the corruption that Quran came. The original message is lost but you would only see traces of same in the bible because the pentateuch couldnt be said to have been written by Moses with regards to Deuteronomy and NT couldnt have been the revelation given to Jesus. I am not saying its not words of God but not 100% as it has been adulterated.

Have you seen the efforts of your brother in crime, Abuzola? How he tried unsuccessfully to deceive readers that I posted irrelevant verses. I don't know what you are talking about the deification of Jesus, go to the thread on how to describe trinity/godhead and see what I had to say about His deity, are you saying that you have not read them or that you missed them? You better abandon those Islamic glasses before they cause total blindness. So you are depending on me to remind you of the verse that says that you should learn from the people of the book! Is this because you have been spending most of your time reading the Bible that you think has been corrupted?

LMAO . My Islamic glasses are intact but you should find solution to yours .I would prefer you serving me the verse and we look at it together and would explain the difference between the xtian then and yours now. I stopped responding to the thread because I left you with some facts and even verses which you didnt attend to here:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.32.html
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.32.html

Look at a blind man pretending to be asleep, is there any difference whether you close your eyes or not, you are still blindfolded so the fact that you now use opaque Islamic goggles does not change the fact that you are as blind as a bat. If you could see the light before you reverted back into darkness how dark is that darkness. A blind man who could see before he became blind would certainly know the difference between light and darkness but if he were to be born blind and then decided to put on dark opaque glassess what difference would it make? No man who was born blind and then eventually sees the light of the day will say that he prefers darkness to light. I said all this to say that you were never a Christian, you never new Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you might have been religious as many people are today but you never saw the light of the glorious gospel as revealed in the Bible.

Oga, I dont blame you since you dont believe yourself. Go through my posts and would see for yourself. You are sad abni, pele ore, such is life, I have seen the light and have been showing the truth through my posts and I would continue praying for you. The similtude of Jesus is like that Adam and he was a prophet and Messenger of God sent to Israel ALONE. What Gospel are you referring to, is it Matthew, Mark, Luke or John abi its Paul's? . Besides, hope you have seen my response to your suppossed contradictions, please let me have more and would explain them to you

Answers to all these had been given by others and myself, I even gave you references to check up on but I don't think you really want to know the truth, what you want is just to argue blindly.

Point of correction, Bastage and the reast have not been able to. I gave you verses saying different things and Bastage even brought a link in which I showed him the verse. Oga. Read my rebuttal and educate yourself on that verse. Bible contradicted itself

I've got to go now to attend to important issues and I'll be right back.

Go come my brother and bring something when coming back o