Obviously in your bid to impress all Nairalanders with complicated English, you didn't do your homework well. Do you know what "Immaculate Conception" is? Please do some more research before you come here and blunder.

I get the feeling you're copying and pasting from some site. Did you bother to look at my first post on this thread?

The fact that god can do anything, but chose to copulate with a mere human on our terms repeatedly demonstrates how limited the god of the bible always was.

I won't begin to explain to you why God decided to do all of that in that way. I'll probably take the whole day to type it and post it tomorrow.

And please stop being evasive.

[color=#770077]So Mao, you're saying Mary wasn't a virgin when she allegedly concieved baby jesus? And that you're intimidated by my use of the English Language? Please don't blame me for your educational deficits, or indeed any other deficits you may well have, [/color]

You're still being evasive. What I meant in my first post was that you got the whole concept of "Immaculate Conception" wrong. Do you mind doing a little more research? I think you had a problem understanding that.

mizieya?

To others who are lost and don't know what's going on here, I'll explain. It seems to me that MIZIEYA realised his blunder and chickened out. MIZIEYA got the following wrong:

1.Immaculate Conception is the doctrine that Virgin Mary's soul was free from sin at her birth, NOT JESUS'S SOUL AT HIS BIRTH.

2. Immaculate Conception is a doctrine that holds in the Catholic or Anglican Church(or maybe both, I'm not sure). Personally, I didn't know that there was such a thing as "Immaculate Conception" until I got to SS3.

3. The doctrine of "Immaculate Conception" isn't a biblical doctrine. It isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

1. The Immaculate Conception is on Mary's birth, not Jesus' birth.

2. The Immaculate Conception isn't supported by the Bible, and so I do not believe it, neither do many christians. It may interest you to know that a lot of people believe the Catholic Church is based on the opposite of many Biblical instructions.

Obviously, you don't do your homework well.

No, I think you're the one that's incredibly stupid. The Bible very clearly says that "All have sinneed." Jesus is an exception because he's a part of the Holy Trinity (which is very Biblical). The rapture is also biblical. Have you ever bothered to read the book of Revelations?

Easter isn't mentioned in the Bible, but there is nothing in the Bible that says "do not celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Hanukkah is in Judaism, which is a totally different religion from Christianity, in case you didn't know.

Lent is a period when a lot of Christians around the world do mass prayer and fasting, and other activities. I do not expect you to understand the power in Lent, so I won't go further on that. However, the Bible does not forbid activities like that.

Xmas isn't mentioned in the Bible, but there is nothing in the Bible that says "do not celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ."

Plus, you might like to do a little search on the history of All Saints' Day.

DO YOU GET IT? THE BIBLE SAYS THAT [B]ALL HAVE SINNED[/B]. Why should we single Mary out as an exception? Immaculate Conception directly contradicts the Bible.

It seems to me that you don't read the bible. You just come here and write what you think.

Plus where does idolatry come in in this? You're a very vague writer, never to the point.

The trinity is biblical, the rapture is biblical (most of you are just confused goons who cant read), the bible mentions nothing about immaculate conception (that is the lie of goons like you looking for holes where there are none), the bible doesnt tell us Mary remained a virgin all her life . . . infact it actively mentions her having a husband and children with that husband after Christ's virgin birth.

Like Huxley and others like you . . . you dont know anything, you think by posting myriads of misconceptions, lies and bogus grammar you can decieve others into believing you genuinely have something to say.

Come back when you are ready to thoroughly thrash out your confusion.

Your argument isn't very logical. For example, the Bible doesn't mention wearing Airforce shoes, or using computers, or private jets. Does does that make them [B]IDOLATRY AND HARLOTRY[/b]?

And obviously you know next to nothing about the church, yet you go on about what the church is going to practice. Don't you get it? None is perfect except God. Do you know anything about the Trinity and Jesus being a part of it?

Jesus was a Jew by birth. Do you know that Judaism is considered as an ethno-religious thing? Are you trying to say that all Jews practice Judaism? Not the smartest statement on earth if you ask me.

Did you know that people practicing Judaism are still waiting for their messiah? They do not believe in Jesus. And you tell me things about Jesus being a Jew. USE YOUR HEAD!!!

_{Christians practiced Judaism. Just like Muslims practiced Christianity. Idiotic self contradicting sentence, if you ask me.}

Immaculate Conception isn't about Jesus' birth. It is about Mary's birth, and it is very much supported in the Bible. Geneses 3 clearly tells us that the woman who is to give birth to Christ will hve complete enmity with the devil. A woman who is born with sin cannot have enmity with the devil. Therefore for Genesis 3 to be true, Mary must have been conceived without sin, therefore Immaculate Conception. Also in order for Christ to be free from sin, he must have a sinless mother, otherwise he too will inherit the original sin we all inherit. He isn't God alone, he is also man, and born of a woman. He shares the same blood as that woman just as we all share the same blood as our mothers, he got his flesh from her just as we got our flesh from our mother. He shared the same oxygen with her as he was in her womb, same food, and all that. If she is sinful, he will be sinful too. In order for Christ to be sinless, he must not have inherited original sin while inheriting flesh and blood from his mother. Since his Father is sinless being God and all, his mother must also be sinless or else she will pass it on to her son. But because we know that her son was sinless, we also know that she must not have had any sin, and because we know that those under the influence of the devil have original sin, and the BIBLE tells us that the woman to give birth to the Christ will have enmity with the devil, she must not be under his influence. Therefore she must not have original sin. In order for this to be achieved, she must have been kept immaculate by God himself.

[b]Read, read and read and perhaps you might educate yourself - Tony Bushby: the bible fraud and his other works are highly informative. Even a black hewbrew/israelite will tell you that christianity once followed judaism closely - it is even in the bible in Acts- where the reader is told that the followers of jesus still attended the synogogue alongside their own house to house meetings.  So basically you're stating jesus was not a jew, he was a christian instead, lol, and that , he didn't study the Torah as the bible tells the reader, because he was a christian, and that because judaism is now considered an ethnic religion- means what exactly and is relevant to this thread how? You need to stop contradicting your own argument you're the one who brought into the mix things that are not biblical and gave a list of them- your point is what exactly? That because its not in the bible its perfectly ok, or because its not in the bible it is not ok? Make up your mind and stop tripping over your feet.[color=#770077][/b][/color]

The immaculate conception has nothing to do with the book of genesis or chapter of genesis,  youre contradicting your own words. first you say the immaculate conception is [color=#770077][b]not related to jesus and then build a case for the immaculate conception being integral to jesus being who he is, make up your minds folks. Besides, if mary was born pure- this means the whole line of marys ancestors had to be pure and there is no record of them in the bible. And if mary was pure her descendents would have been pure as well and again there is no record of marys descendents outside of the bible. The purity scenario is simply a hoax. Not only that but it limits what god is supposed to be able to do. And also contradicts its nature: after all god is both good and evil, and an entity that is both good and evil doesn't need a pure human being to produce a godman, Work with me here people.[/color][/b]

Also in order for Christ to be free from sin, he must have a sinless mother, otherwise he too will inherit the original sin we all inherit.

And so it follows that Mary's mother wasn't sinful either. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother.

MIZIEYA:

Mac thanks for demonstrating the mythology of the bible and the perpetuation of it. What other tricks can you perform?

You're always very quick to insult. I wonder why that is. Not that I'm offended anyway.

And so it follows that Mary's mother wasn't sinful either. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother. And her mother.

no it follows that a special grace was given to mary, however the women in her family were holy women. since the beginning of time God her planned in his mind. Just read Genesis 3:15. God already knew that he would send a saviour into the world and he knew that he would be born of a woman. It is no doubt that the woman's seed refered to in Gen 3:15 is Jesus, we know whose offspring he is, he is Mary's offspring, therefore if the woman is Mary, then Mary must have enmity with the devil. No one has complete enmity with the devil because everyone is still under the influence of sin and can sin. But to say that Mary, the woman in Gen 3:15 is sinful, then it is to say that Gen 3:15 is untrue.

So which is it?
Is the woman in Gen 3:15 under the influence of the devil or not? Does she have enmity with the devil or not?
Is the offspring in Gen 3:15 Jesus or not? Is the offspring's mother Mary or not?

So why did God have to start at Mary?

Plus, that part of Genesis also has something about labour pains.

Ge 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
KJV

Only Mary is certified to have complete enmity with the devil, as you claim. Why isn't it only Mary that brings forth children in sorrow?

_{My Bible says enmity, not complete enmity.}

Gen 3:15 God was talking to the serpent, and that he would put enmity between him and the woman and between his offspring and her offspring (singular) the offspring is one child not all the children that were to be born.
Then God turns to the woman (eve) and then said she will give birth with child pains.
We know the woman God was talking about to the devil wasn't Eve because Eve was already under the influence of the devil, so there was no way she could have enmity with the devil. Now let's go back to Gen 3:15, and we look at the offspring, the offspring is the key here, as the offspring is the key in the Immaculate Conception, that offspring is the messiah, and we know who he is. We know that is the first prophecy of Jesus who is to come, so we look at the woman who is to give birth to that offspring and we know that the woman is Mary, and that's how we can tell, that in that passage, God wasn't talking about Eve or all women, he was now talking about a particular woman, and that woman is going to give birth to the messiah who would bruise the heel of the devil's offspring (his demons), since we know who that particular messiah is, we also know who the particular woman is, and that is his mother, the mother of the messiah, whose name is Mary, and she will have enmity with the devil. The devil will not be her friend, she will not be inclined to sin.

So why did God have to start at Mary?

Not to be rude or anything, but why did God have to start with Jesus? He could have simply just wiped off the first Adam (Man) and the first Eve(Woman) and started over, why did he have to do it through Jesus? If you can answer this, you have answered your own question. All there is about Mary is about Jesus, it is because of her role as Jesus mother that she is given honour, unfortunately while Catholics are aware of it, Proestants aren't and then they go on a bashing spree instead of thinking, hey maybe I don't know all there is in the Bible.

~Lady~:

Gen 3:15 God was talking to the serpent, and that he would put enmity between him and the woman and between his offspring and her offspring (singular) the offspring is one child not all the children that were to be born.
Then God turns to the woman (eve) and then said she will give birth with child pains.
We know the woman God was talking about to the devil wasn't Eve because Eve was already under the influence of the devil, so there was no way she could have enmity with the devil. Now let's go back to Gen 3:15, and we look at the offspring, the offspring is the key here, as the offspring is the key in the Immaculate Conception, that offspring is the messiah, and we know who he is. We know that is the first prophecy of Jesus who is to come, so we look at the woman who is to give birth to that offspring and we know that the woman is Mary, and that's how we can tell, that in that passage, God wasn't talking about Eve or all women, he was now talking about a particular woman, and that woman is going to give birth to the messiah who would bruise the heel of the devil's offspring (his demons), since we know who that particular messiah is, we also know who the particular woman is, and that is his mother, the mother of the messiah, whose name is Mary, and she will have enmity with the devil. The devil will not be her friend, she will not be inclined to sin.

Not to be rude or anything, but why did God have to start with Jesus? He could have simply just wiped off the first Adam (Man) and the first Eve(Woman) and started over, why did he have to do it through Jesus? If you can answer this, you have answered your own question. All there is about Mary is about Jesus, it is because of her role as Jesus mother that she is given honour, unfortunately while Catholics are aware of it, Proestants aren't and then they go on a bashing spree instead of thinking, hey maybe I don't know all there is in the Bible.

You're good. _{I hope you understand what I mean.}

mactao:

You're good. _{I hope you understand what I mean.}

Believe me I am very clueless. True talk.