Ikomi:

Look young man. You are not the advocate of those women. When they think the time is right they would fight for there own rights.

Afterall in old Britain it was the same women that stood up for there own right to vote, when women were not allowed to vote. Until someday a woman became the Prime Minister. Nobody imposed it on good old Britain that they should allow women to vote.

In America Blacks did not count for anything, but today they have a black man as the President.

In France there was a time when there was a great difference between the rich and the poor. The poor never walks the streets of the rich, until the great revolution. It was carried out by the poor French men themselves.

I could go on and on and on.

So my dear friend Savannah all these great so called democracies evolved at their own pace.

I don't see why they think they have the right to evolve at there own pace and others should be fast forwarded.

So my dear Savannah everything works at its own time, when the women of Saudi need your help am sure they would consult you.

Ikomi:

Look young man. You are not the advocate of those women. When they think the time is right they would fight for there own rights.

Afterall in old Britain it was the same women that stood up for there own right to vote, when women were not allowed to vote. Until someday a woman became the Prime Minister. Nobody imposed it on good old Britain that they should allow women to vote.

In America Blacks did not count for anything, but today they have a black man as the President.

In France there was a time when there was a great difference between the rich and the poor. The poor never walks the streets of the rich, until the great revolution. It was carried out by the poor French men themselves.

I could go on and on and on.

So my dear friend Savannah all these great so called democracies evolved at their own pace.

I don't see why they think they have the right to evolve at there own pace and others should be fast forwarded.

So my dear Savannah everything works at its own time, when the women of Saudi need your help am sure they would consult you.  

biina:

In most parts of the world, the elite class often gets away with crimes while the poor suffer. It is not exclusive to Saudi Arabia, or are all african countries Islamic states?

While Turkey has a large population of Muslims, it is not an Islamic state, and thus it is unfair to compare t to Saudi Arabia. Turkey is a secular state with a parliamentary democracy. If you want fair comparison, why not use other islamic states like Iran or Pakistan.

RichyBlacK:

The problem with your comparison is that you're not taking into consideration the power of religion in preventing change and keeping the status quo aka power structure in place.

Ikomi:

That is still where am taking you to, that time is the best teacher and not the forces of other nations. A good example is Africa and presently Iraq.

Do you remember when religion was not differentiated from state in old France and Britain, when the church invariably ruled the state. It led to the Crusade, when thousands of Muslims were murdered in Jerusalem just because the then pope in his move to expand the reach of the church, ordered soldires to join the crusade in other to wipe out there sins.

Today the recent pope is clamoring for the Palestinian state.

Look young man don't be deceived, by the propaganda of the west, I just have not got time to really go into this discussion. Forgive me for this.

All am trying to let you know is that experience is the best teacher, no matter what you sign on paper, if your not convinced in your heart that it is the right thing to do, but you put down your signature just to be in the league of friends, your signature amounts to nothing.

RichyBlacK:

1. But what about Saudi Arabia's obligation (legally binding?) to uphold the tenets of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

2. If Saudi-Arabia goes to war with a country and captures soldiers from the enemy, are they supposed to put them under their laws or respect the Geneva Convention?

No country operates in isolation except those ruled by tyrants!

Ikomi:

Then you have no case against Saudi Arabia.

Didn't the United States sign against toture? But privates Cheney is everywhere aguing how the end justifies the means.

And like I say dont try to rob peter to pay paul, Saudi Arabia is not toturing its own citizens. Its a law in Saudi Arabia, its people have choosen to abide by that law. I dont see how your argument of torture comes in.

Ikomi:

Savannaha I agree with you, the people of Saudi Arabia have consulted with you as you pointed out.

And from the way you feel I can deduce they are groaning in silence. I think you as the latest Moses should go and rescue them.

May Allah be with you. 

biina:

my suggested choices were not in an attempt to vindicate saudi arabia. I simply would prefer one not compare apples to oranges
I don't recall people being forced to go to Saudi Arabia (or any other country in the world), and the fact that they operate the sharia law is not a hidden fact. If you have a problem with their system, stay out of their country. Do not be self righteous, and thus blindly criticize the way of life of another.

$osisi:

You argue like a child.So all those unfortunate enough to be born Saudis, tough luck huh?
They are not free to wear the clothes they want,drive or even change their religion without fear of persecution or death?
abeg comot.
The pressure is working.They have no choice but to change eventually.
If Saudis can leave free in other societies sotay the Saudi princes are photographed on their yatchts with their gay lovers and prostitutes,that should tell them that their idiotic rules don't have any effect whatsoever on morality.
There's some statistics to show that a high number of men from those Muslim countries are gay,higher than the Western countries so they might as well set their people free since the tight leash has made the men gay since they don't see the women,they burn with passion for one another just like prisoners.

RichyBlacK:

What? Can you point me to another country in this world where a rape victim is sentenced to 200 lashes and six months in prison?

Saudi Arabia, by virtue of her geographical importance to Muslims world-wide, must take the lead in tearing down outdated nonsensical laws that discriminate against women and foreigners. There is absolutely nothing good that can come from holding on to these barbaric laws!

$osisi:

You argue like a child.So all those unfortunate enough to be born Saudis, tough luck huh?
They are not free to wear the clothes they want,drive or even change their religion without fear of persecution or death?
abeg comot.
The pressure is working.They have no choice but to change eventually.
If Saudis can leave free in other societies sotay the Saudi princes are photographed on their yatchts with their gay lovers and prostitutes,that should tell them that their idiotic rules don't have any effect whatsoever on morality.
There's some statistics to show that a high number of men from those Muslim countries are gay,higher than the Western countries so they might as well set their people free since the tight leash has made the men gay since they don't see the women,they burn with passion for one another just like prisoners.
You can't legislate morality.

biina:

At times it is better to argue like a child as ones view is less colored.

Saudi citizens are Saudi citizens, they take the pros and cons along with their citizenship. It is life and it has nothing to do with fairness. To say they are unfortunate to be born a Saudi is hilarious, as I could make the same argument for several other countries. You talk about them not being able to wear what they like, I ask if they have come to you to complain? or you are simply assuming everyone should think like you. BTW as much as you feel you have the right to wear what you want, almost every country has a law against indecent exposure. Who decides what is decent?

It has been shown time and again that forcing the way of life of one on the other, is never in the best interest of the latter. Each nation has its own laws, and I don't see what gives others the right to impose their own laws or way of life on another country. If you feel you care more about Saudi citizens than their fellow country men, you are quite mistaken. When enough Saudis have problems with their laws, they will make the needed change.

To assume your point of view is right, without any idea of the other side is simply being self righteous.

biina:

At times it is better to argue like a child as ones view is less colored.

Saudi citizens are Saudi citizens, they take the pros and cons along with their citizenship. It is life and it has nothing to do with fairness. To say they are unfortunate to be born a Saudi is hilarious, as I could make the same argument for several other countries. You talk about them not being able to wear what they like, I ask if they have come to you to complain? or you are simply assuming everyone should think like you. BTW as much as you feel you have the right to wear what you want, almost every country has a law against indecent exposure. Who decides what is decent?

It has been shown time and again that forcing the way of life of one on the other, is never in the best interest of the latter. Each nation has its own laws, and I don't see what gives others the right to impose their own laws or way of life on another country. If you feel you care more about Saudi citizens than their fellow country men, you are quite mistaken. When enough Saudis have problems with their laws, they will make the needed change.

To assume your point of view is right, without any idea of the other side is simply being self righteous.

$osisi:

I am talking about the rights of a woman to express herself as she feels and you're talking rubbish.
It's not anyone forcing another,The laws are barabaric.
What laws say a woman can be beaten by her husband ?Doesn't common sense tell you that a man should not hit a woman yet you have a law in Islam where that is not a crime and here you are condoning it.
The same law says a 6 year old can be married and molested by a 47 year old. If you support this one,you need to go and check yourself.
You may be a pedophile.
A woman can be accused of witchraft and stoned to death in 2009
A woman is inferior to a man and men decide how she dresses and how she conducts her life.
I know the Koran says your women are devoid of intelligence but has anyone given these caged women of Saudi a chance to actually see how intelligent they could be.
Would you talk the same way if you were on the receiving end of these barabaric stupid laws?

biina:

.

Up until the 19th century women did not have property rights in most European countries, as opposed to same rights they had always enjoyed under the 'barbaric' sharia law.

$osisi:

This is 2009 what is Saudi waiting for.

biina:

They are waiting for their people. Let each nation evolve at their own pace.
The sad thing is that most western states care less about the saudi populace. All they are interested in is that their crude oil needs are met by the oil wells of Saudi.

yeswecan:

Saudi Arabia is a backward state just like most Islamic communities

Riskie:

True talk. I would never choose to live there

davidylan:

Huh? The very seat of islam? If a muslim wont live there who would?

Maybe you!

MrCrackles:

Maybe you!

davidylan:

why shld i? I'm not the one who decieves himself going on pilgrimage to a country he wont dare live in. You begin to understand the spirit behind islam when even its staunchest adherents prefer to live with the infidels.

Drivel and gobblydygook!

biina:

Anywhere in the world, the rights of an individual are subject to the boundaries set by the society and the state. The fact that you agree/disagree with a law does not make it any more/less barbaric.

For your information, Nigeria itself does not have a legal lower age limit for marriage. Under civic law in Nigeria, marriage of a minor is permissible if the consent of the parents are granted. We have only started working towards defining the limit with the adoption of the Child Rights acts in 2003, and most states are yet to sign up.

Up until the 19th century women did not have property rights in most European countries, as opposed to same rights they had always enjoyed under the 'barbaric' sharia law.

But all that is irrelevant. The key point is that you have no rights to define what is barbaric for the Saudis. The fact that you disagree with them, does not grant you a license to ridicule their way of life.  I am sure you will not take kindly to the Saudis trying to impose their ways on you under the guise of your way of life being barbaric. Do unto others as you have other do unto you, and leave the Saudis alone with Saudis.