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Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. - Politics (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Nobody: 5:40pm On Nov 10, 2015
We only have the highest paid and lazy senators and reps in the world.

2 Likes

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by naso2(m): 5:41pm On Nov 10, 2015
Sweetguy25:
That Nigeria was once a great a country – It is common to hear Nigerian’s make statements like “our country will be great again”. This comment is quite delusional.
Nigeria, to the best of my knowledge has never been a great country. You may try to pass of some of our characteristics like population, ethnicity or the fact that we used to have groundnut pyramids in the past as greatness but reasonably, these things don’t make you great.
Examples of countries that were great are China and Argentina. They were both known to be highly prosperous countries in the past and unfortunately lost their prosperity as time went by.
Nigeria has never been known to be a prosperous country since its independence till date.

That Nigeria is a rich country: This is another unfounded untruth that is perpetuated by some ignorant Nigerians.
The “GDP per capita” is the standard used in measuring how rich a country is. Nigeria’s GDP per capita currently stands at 3000 dollars. This makes Nigeria a low income country and one of the poorest countries in the world.

That Nigeria is more developed than most countries in Africa: Some Nigerians who have never been beyond the boundaries of Lagos and Abuja would think there are fewer places in Africa that are better than these places (and Nigeria as a whole) in terms of infrastructure and economic development.
Recent ratings from the World Economic Forum’s global competitiveness report shows that even in West Africa, certain countries like Cote D’Ivoire, Ghana, Mali, Cape Verde and Senegal all have better infrastructure ratings than Nigeria.
Honestly speaking, Nigerians have a myopic view as to what true socio-economic growth and development entails. Seeing private jets and luxurious cars as development while majority of the populace cannot afford beyond the basic necessities of life isn’t development.

That Nigeria would develop and be great:
Although we can’t predict the future, we can judge from history and the current state of affairs to project what the future would look like.
The possibility of Nigeria becoming great with its current structures, constitution and institutions is very slim.
The current socio-political and economic regime that perpetuates greed, rent-seeking, injustice and laziness will not get this country where is plans to be.
Until we begin to call for a structural and systemic change, Nigeria may not witness any progress in the long-run.




Guy you are too much.

In fact whenever I tell guys that Nigeria is not a rich country , you come face to face with the degree of ignorance in the land, even amongst so called graduates. always you hear this overused line that "Nigeria has a lot of untapped resources". na today?

I think u may need to review even the per capita income, except if this recent rebasing of the economy has shot it up this much. I no think say the thing reach $1000 sef
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Nobody: 5:42pm On Nov 10, 2015
PLANETMARS:
Op at least we are u17 World champions yet again that's greatness. U no like nigeria commit suicide asap
u are rt, even though we used over 24 players to win d tournament
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by onoja12: 5:44pm On Nov 10, 2015
says who? china has a poor per capital earning but is arguably the richest country in the world, so you don't know what you are talking about, Nigeria has a purchasing power of over 1trillion dollars, read the figure well, which makes Nigeria the 23 richest country in the world. if you don't know economics please don't speak about it.

Sweetguy25:


Oga. I'm only stating facts

1. Nigeria was never a great country. That we had free education or a currency that was equivalent to the dollar in the 60s and 70s does not make the country great.
2. Nigeria is one of the poorest countries in the world and its human development and prosperity are amongst the lowest in Africa.

1 Like

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Sweetguy25: 5:44pm On Nov 10, 2015
Marvinspeed:


GDP's are used to measure a country's economic growth, so as long as we have a huge GDP our economic activity is growing. Nations like the UK have had steady growths over periods of years and right now most of the top 5 economies have nearly full capacity operations, Nigeria is utilising about 70% of our capacity according to the world bank, so as long as there is progress our economy has the potential to grow to sizes of Japan and UK.

There are other measurements of a nations wealth, but the GDP(both real and nominal) is the most important tool being used to world economies. It is used by The World Bank, International Monetary Fund, African Development Bank and a host of others.

Nigeria has enormous growth potential. Check the projections of countries economies in the next 20years, Nigeria if it can maintain the growth potential in place now it will be among the top15 economies in the world.

The Economy of a nation and the wealth of a nation are not entirely the same thing. Its the same as economic growth and development. China is bound to have a bigger GDP than the United States anytime soon but will that make them richer than the US? No.

The primary standard used in measuring a nations wealth is the GDP per capita. It provides a primary assessment of the capability of the citizens of a country to afford things that are beyond the basic necessities of life.

Relativity is the point. Our economy when compared to our population doesn't look great at all.

1 Like

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by sonnie10: 5:45pm On Nov 10, 2015
folem:


Trillion Naira = 12 zeros

Divide 4400000000000 by 180000000 = 24444.44

In summary, #24 K was used to manage each person in 2015.


You know you are right. I checked google. This means Nigeria is actually a poor country. #24k is too small, then OP is right

By the time you divide that by 365days

24,000 / 365 = #6.6 per day. This is $0.032 per day.

According to UN definition of poverty; The poverty rate at $1.25 a day is the proportion of the population living on less than $1.25 a day, measured at 2005 international prices, adjusted for purchasing power parity

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Bollinger(m): 5:46pm On Nov 10, 2015
bettercreature:
The OP is dunce,That is personal opinion

Nigeria is very very rich

Nigeria was once a great country


Nigeria is better most african countries

An example of when reality is lost on someone. You don't seem to want to get the point. The whole purpose of the OP's post is to open your eyes. Stop lying to yourself and maybe you'll begin to see the way forward. Ok, you say Nigeria was once great abi? Please give me a period in Nigeria's history where it once was.

2 Likes

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Zellie: 5:46pm On Nov 10, 2015
I wish I wasn't Nigerian, this country is too messed up sad

2 Likes

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Orobo2Lekpa: 5:46pm On Nov 10, 2015
I think sometimes people confuse being Oil-Rich and being a rich country. Nigeria is Oil-Rich, it is one of the largest producers and exporters of crude oil. This however does not make Nigeria a rich country. There are no empirical indices that you can look it that will define Nigeria as a rich country.

Being rich in resources does not necessarily make you rich. Most European countries are richer than Nigeria without having the the abundance of resources we have. One basic fact that we fail to grasp is that wealth is not really in resources but the value added to those resources. That is the reason why a restaurant owner will make more money from a tuber of yam than the farmer who planted that yam. A lot of European countries make almost as much from money from taxes on petroleum products as we earn on exporting the crude oil.

6 Likes 1 Share

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Rossikk(m): 5:47pm On Nov 10, 2015
sammhi:


you must be dumb head.so naira being greater than dollar makes your economy or country great. at independence in 1960..go check if you had roads in this country..Nigeria was bush.. we had to send our army to India, Britain and the US to train..
we had only one airport more like a an airfield.. had only one university U.I established by the white man .., how many homes have a tv set?...we can go and on...
the truth is at independence in 1960 and given our population then , we had a chance to be great..but we were never there... due to misfits in governance and our naroow minded and shallow mindset leading to socio political quagmire and chains
the truth is dollar is even under valued ..if dollar is rightly valued ,... most countries will cease to exist or will be in serious trouble ..so deliberately, the US govt keeps the dollar at a rate conducive for all.....
two weeks ago, the dollar went up world wide and the whole world almost collapse...
please try and know indices for assessing a great nation....there is nothing great about us except for population wise..
You seem to be praising "the white man" for building you just ONE university after 64 years of white rule in which your resources were exported year after year. Doesn't that make you a dumb slave? Black govts built 200 universities in Nigeria in less time, yet you cannot see the progress being made. I think you lack common sense.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by JiggamanGh: 5:50pm On Nov 10, 2015
aimuan:
Ghana, Mali, Cape Verde and Senegal all have better infrastructure ratings than Nigeria;dude this part must be a joke.which Ghana is more developed than Nigeria,or has more infrastructure rating than Nigeria?I hope you are not referring to the Ghana i known very well.

The proof is there for you to see but you refuse. From education, health care, security to roads. Ghana is ahead of Nigeria. Check HDI between the two countries.

1 Like

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Rossikk(m): 5:50pm On Nov 10, 2015
Zellie:
I wish I wasn't Nigerian, this country is too messed up sad
Don't you know the way to the Ugandan embassy? Who stopped you from leaving?
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Caution30: 5:51pm On Nov 10, 2015
Hmm,that unfortunately is the truth. more disturbing is the fact that we fail to accept the truth,making us susceptible to manipulation in the hands of our elite,what a shame!
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Bollinger(m): 5:51pm On Nov 10, 2015
onoja12:
You are an idiot one of the biggest idiots, it is on record that most countries with large population have low GDP and they are many yard sticks for measuring wealth, by an average Nigeria is one of the richest in Africa and definitely above average in the world.as for past glory you must be one small fool who was born yesterday, at a point in Nigeria history, The naira was better than the dollar, education at all levels were free, but with the country turning out trators like you, this is were we are now, as for one of the most develop, I beat my chest, you haven't travelled anywhere you are just a noise maker, if you have traveled you would definitely appreciate Nigeria.as for becoming great we are already there. the greatest in Africa and the country on everybody's radar round the would. you can hate all you like but this country doesn't need people like you. if you don't like Nigeria please go to the nearest immigration office or embassy and denounce your citizenship. stupid fool



Please give us a period in time when the Naira value was greater than the dollar or better for that matter. Also, Which countries are you talking about? i hope you are not comparing Nigeria to Niger Republic. If so then of course Nigeria is better.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by folem: 5:52pm On Nov 10, 2015
sonnie10:



You know you are right. I checked google. This means Nigeria is actually a poor country. #24k is too small, then OP is right

By the time you divide that by 365days

24,000 / 365 = #6.6 per day. This is $0.032 per day.

According to UN definition of poverty; The poverty rate at $1.25 a day is the proportion of the population living on less than $1.25 a day, measured at 2005 international prices, adjusted for purchasing power parity


By the time you divide that by 365.25 days

24,444.44 / 365.25 = #66.9 per day. This is $ (66.9/199) 0.34 per day.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by kadas01(m): 5:53pm On Nov 10, 2015
Sweetguy25:


We always fail to tell ourselves the truth and we never learn our lessons.
That is our number 1 "problem" as a Nation!
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Rossikk(m): 5:54pm On Nov 10, 2015
JiggamanGh:


The proof is there for you to see but you refuse. From education, health care, security to roads. Ghana is ahead of Nigeria. Check HDI between the two countries.
Ghana has only 20 million people. By your logic they are 'far ahead' of nations like India, Brazil, and China, since the latter have hundreds of millions of poor people and illiterates. You need to compare Ghana with her mates, not Nigeria and other big nations.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by bettercreature(m): 5:57pm On Nov 10, 2015
Bollinger:


An example of when reality is lost on someone. You don't seem to want to get the point. The whole purpose of the OP's post is to open your eyes. Stop lying to yourself and maybe you'll begin to see the way forward. Ok, you say Nigeria was once great abi? Please give me a period in Nigeria's history where it once was.
A period when Nigerian pound is higher than us$
A period when UNiversity student are fed 3 times daily
A period when you'd get job immediatly you finished your UNI
A period when there was 24/7 electricity
Just to mention a few,military regime destroyed Nigeria,that is the fact
The OP doesn't have much senses
How can a sane man says,a country of 160million people,selling 2.4million barrels of oil per day with tonnes of other available resources,is not rich?

2 Likes

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Sweetguy25: 5:58pm On Nov 10, 2015
iconize:
Another emotional person said Nigeria has the best road network in Africa.

Yo road network equals to nothing if yo roads are crappy.

In terms of quality of roads, Nigeria is ranked 120th out of 142 countries.


Thanks for bringing this out.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Dolypson04(m): 5:58pm On Nov 10, 2015
Sweetguy25:
That Nigeria was once a great a country – It is common to hear Nigerian’s make statements like “our country will be great again”. This comment is quite delusional.
Nigeria, to the best of my knowledge has never been a great country. You may try to pass of some of our characteristics like population, ethnicity or the fact that we used to have groundnut pyramids in the past as greatness but reasonably, these things don’t make you great.
Examples of countries that were great are China and Argentina. They were both known to be highly prosperous countries in the past and unfortunately lost their prosperity as time went by.
Nigeria has never been known to be a prosperous country since its independence till date.

That Nigeria is a rich country: This is another unfounded untruth that is perpetuated by some ignorant Nigerians.
The “GDP per capita” is the standard used in measuring how rich a country is. Nigeria’s GDP per capita currently stands at 3000 dollars. This makes Nigeria a low income country and one of the poorest countries in the world.

That Nigeria is more developed than most countries in Africa: Some Nigerians who have never been beyond the boundaries of Lagos and Abuja would think there are fewer places in Africa that are better than these places (and Nigeria as a whole) in terms of infrastructure and economic development.
Recent ratings from the World Economic Forum’s global competitiveness report shows that even in West Africa, certain countries like Cote D’Ivoire, Ghana, Mali, Cape Verde and Senegal all have better infrastructure ratings than Nigeria.
Honestly speaking, Nigerians have a myopic view as to what true socio-economic growth and development entails. Seeing private jets and luxurious cars as development while majority of the populace cannot afford beyond the basic necessities of life isn’t development.

That Nigeria would develop and be great:
Although we can’t predict the future, we can judge from history and the current state of affairs to project what the future would look like.
The possibility of Nigeria becoming great with its current structures, constitution and institutions is very slim.
The current socio-political and economic regime that perpetuates greed, rent-seeking, injustice and laziness will not get this country where is plans to be.
Until we begin to call for a structural and systemic change, Nigeria may not witness any progress in the long-run.


Firstly are you a Nigerian., If yes what have you contributed so far for the betterment of this nation? Most of your observations are true but they are mere facts which change nothing.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Bollinger(m): 5:59pm On Nov 10, 2015
bettercreature:
A period when Nigerian pound is higher than us$
A period when UNiversity student are fed 3 times daily
A period when you'd get job immediatly you finished your UNI
A period when there was 24/7 electricity
Just to mention a few,military regime destroyed Nigeria,that is the fact
The OP doesn't have much senses

Which period in time? Which years are you talking about?
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by sonnie10: 6:00pm On Nov 10, 2015
folem:


By the time you divide that by 365.25 days

24,444.44 / 365.25 = #66.9 per day. This is $ (66.9/199) 0.34 per day.

Bros thanks once again for the correction.

For three square meal, I can go on to do the maths:

#66.9/ 3 = #22.3

What this implies is that anybody spending more than #22.3 per meal is draining the economy.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by DATMAT(m): 6:00pm On Nov 10, 2015
let the truth b told we are still back ward and under develop but we can get it right wen the Igbo stand for their right not to say they want to break away, wen have regional positive competition toward good infrastructure and development... Simply datmat...
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by JiggamanGh: 6:00pm On Nov 10, 2015
Rossikk:
Ghana has only 20 million people. By your logic they are 'far ahead' of nations like India and Brazil, since the latter have hundreds of millions of poor people and illiterates. You need to compare Ghana with her mates, not Nigeria and other big nations.

Well we are comparing Ghana and Nigeria. For the fact that Ghana has less population than Nigeria shouldn't matter. Sometimes your huge population favors you and other time it don't.

Sorry there are many countries that are smaller but out performs huge nations. I didn't make the comparison, it was your naija brother that made the comparison.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by tonychristopher: 6:00pm On Nov 10, 2015
I am proud of my parents and they did what they did without Nigerian help, short changed by N igeria for the singular fact they are igbo and their grand kids short changed also...this country is a big shame, just look at the crop of leaders you have

pls why must you call names? a country that is so blessed yet so backward, ever travelled out of this continent you will understnad that Nigeria is damn far behind, travel is the best teacher


Dont stay there and assume your country is great...NIGERIA IS WHACK.....I am ashamed sometimes acrrying nigerian passport
sonofananimal:
proud of your father and mother who take there time to born you and take care of you until you reach the age were you started DISPLAYING your stupidity online undecided

What make a country to develop if it is not his people!

You went to Dubai and started condemning Nigeria! Why can't you study them and bring what you have learn in Dubai to develop your country,

But you are here opening your pig mouth shouting on what to be proud of undecided

Hypocrites
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by bettercreature(m): 6:01pm On Nov 10, 2015
Bollinger:


Which period in time? Which years are you talking about?
from 1975 through 1995,there was the last time Nigeria worth fighting for
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Sweetguy25: 6:02pm On Nov 10, 2015
Rossikk:
Use your brain. A faster growing GDP than Britain means we are 'catching up'. If current growth rates are maintained in both nations, then it is only a matter of time before the gap is closed. This is primary school mathematics.

Growth rates aren't static and can be influenced by certain factors. Britain may have a higher growth rate than Nigeria in the future.

1 Like

Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by GoodFaith: 6:04pm On Nov 10, 2015
The only thing I can say
Nigeria is moving backward
Water,Light, and roads was better 30 year back than today
Sad
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Nobody: 6:05pm On Nov 10, 2015
onoja12:
You are an idiot one of the biggest idiots, it is on record that most countries with large population have low GDP and they are many yard sticks for measuring wealth, by an average Nigeria is one of the richest in Africa and definitely above average in the world.as for past glory you must be one small fool who was born yesterday, at a point in Nigeria history, The naira was better than the dollar, education at all levels were free, but with the country turning out trators like you, this is were we are now, as for one of the most develop, I beat my chest, you haven't travelled anywhere you are just a noise maker, if you have traveled you would definitely appreciate Nigeria.as for becoming great we are already there. the greatest in Africa and the country on everybody's radar round the would. you can hate all you like but this country doesn't need people like you. if you don't like Nigeria please go to the nearest immigration office or embassy and denounce your citizenship. stupid fool



Ignorance, is a terrible, terrible disease. This is the sort of guy that just talks out of his anus with no research, information or facts. "Most countries with large population have low GDP". Firstly I'm sure he meant to say 'per capita'. Just to educate you, per capita is GDP divided by population, so if you have a low one, you simply up your GDP. That is the real yardstick for measuring wealth, not all the rubbish you wrote. Eg. If a country has $2,000,000 GDP BUT only 2 citizens, that makes it the richest in the world.

The United States does not have a low per capita. Neither does China, Russia.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by Rossikk(m): 6:06pm On Nov 10, 2015
JiggamanGh:


Well we are comparing Ghana and Nigeria. For the fact that Ghana has less population than Nigeria shouldn't matter. Sometimes your huge population favors you and other time it don't.

Sorry there are many countries that are smaller but out performs huge nations. I didn't make the comparison, it was your naija brother that made the comparison.

Dude, Ghana is the population of one state in Nigeria out of 36. There some states in Nigeria with higher living standards than Ghana. There is no basis for comparing a country of 175 million people with one of 20 million. You should be comparing yourselves with other tiny countries like UAE, Kuwait etc.
Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by MrEverest(m): 6:07pm On Nov 10, 2015
Sweetguy25:
That Nigeria was once a great a country – It is common to hear Nigerian’s make statements like “our country will be great again”. This comment is quite delusional.
Nigeria, to the best of my knowledge has never been a great country. You may try to pass of some of our characteristics like population, ethnicity or the fact that we used to have groundnut pyramids in the past as greatness but reasonably, these things don’t make you great.
Examples of countries that were great are China and Argentina. They were both known to be highly prosperous countries in the past and unfortunately lost their prosperity as time went by.
Nigeria has never been known to be a prosperous country since its independence till date.

That Nigeria is a rich country: This is another unfounded untruth that is perpetuated by some ignorant Nigerians.
The “GDP per capita” is the standard used in measuring how rich a country is. Nigeria’s GDP per capita currently stands at 3000 dollars. This makes Nigeria a low income country and one of the poorest countries in the world.

That Nigeria is more developed than most countries in Africa: Some Nigerians who have never been beyond the boundaries of Lagos and Abuja would think there are fewer places in Africa that are better than these places (and Nigeria as a whole) in terms of infrastructure and economic development.
Recent ratings from the World Economic Forum’s global competitiveness report shows that even in West Africa, certain countries like Cote D’Ivoire, Ghana, Mali, Cape Verde and Senegal all have better infrastructure ratings than Nigeria.
Honestly speaking, Nigerians have a myopic view as to what true socio-economic growth and development entails. Seeing private jets and luxurious cars as development while majority of the populace cannot afford beyond the basic necessities of life isn’t development.

[b]That Nigeria would develop and be great:
Although we can’t predict the future, we can judge from history and the current state of affairs to project what the future would look like.
The possibility of Nigeria becoming great with its current structures, constitution and institutions is very slim.
The current socio-political and economic regime that perpetuates greed, rent-seeking, injustice and laziness will not get this country where is plans to be.
Until we begin to call for a structural and systemic change, Nigeria may not witness any progress in the long-run.
[/b]

10000000000000000000 likes for you and may God bless you!!! The highlighted is the reason why I support Biafra. I, as a person used to condemn the secessionist movement simply because our population will no longer be 170 million, our landmass will no longer be over 900,000 square kilometers and we will no longer be called the "giant of Africa" but after really studying this country since independence, I have come to understand that we will never be great based on the structure and foundation in place which is entirely rent seeking, celebration of mediocrity and subjugation of excellence because some constituent parts feels they can't cope in a free and competitive society. You start having state sponsored destruction of excellence called quota system, whereby someone will score 10, 5 or even 0 and yet will be giving admission while someone who scored 100 will be denied access to federal school!!! Ahmadu Bello today is celebrated in the country yet this man sowed the seed of discord when this country was at infancy, his hate filled statements against the south especially the Igbos is well documented. How can we develop when everybody is pulling in different directions?? Since 1960 we have been repairing Lagos-Ibadan exp way, Benin-Ore exp way, Enugu-Port Harcout exp way, Kano-Maiduguiri exp way yet they have never been motor-able and believe me we will remain in these state till 2100!!! The same with Energy supply, it keeps getting worse with each new government despite billions of naira that have been spent on it. When countries that used to be at par with us like South Korea, China, India, Malaysia, Indonesia are fast entering first world status, we are still scavenging as a poor third world country!!! We have two options left, it is either we become a truly federal state whereby every part controls its resources and determines its pace, destiny and development based on hard work or divide and go our separate ways. We have deceived ourselves enough already and anybody who still supports Nigeria's present state is wicked not only to himself but to humanity and generations yet unborn!!!

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Re: Common Lies Nigerians Tell Themselves About Nigeria. by OlujobaSamuel: 6:08pm On Nov 10, 2015
iconize:


Apparently, you're one of those delusional fellows.

What makes you think Nigeria will be great?

It's mind-blogging how you emotional folks think a cesspit like Nigeria will ever experience greatness.

The truth is that Nigeria since the 70s has experienced little or no advancement.
there is nothing delusional about it, you can't tell me Nigeria is in a spot, even if the growth rate is 1% then it means there is a chance for her to be better than it is.
The effect of your statement above is that, even if you are one of the leaders, it can never be better, you will only be there to collect your dues(salary, allowance, embezzlement, etc)
If you still don't get it, am sorry, your help is beyond me.

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