HERE COMES ANOTHER OONIRISA

The royal dynasty of Ooni could be traced back to over 500 B.C and was pioneered by Ooni Odùduwà who was the ancestral father of the Yorubas . Ooni Oduduwa was succeeded by Ooni Osangangan an Obamakin who was also succeeded by his son, Ooni Ogun. Following the demise of Ooni Ogun, Ooni Obalufe Ogbogbodirin ascended the throne as the 4th paramout ruler of the ancient city, "Ile Ife" and was succeeded by his son, Ooni Obalufon Alayemore Oranyan Omoluabi succeeded Ooni Obalufon Alayemore. Oranyan was Ooni Oduduwa's last born and one of Oduduwa's principal ministers and overseer of the nascent Benin Empire . He was the father of the pioneer Oba of Benin and first the Aláàfin of Oyo was one of his sons. Oranyan was succeeded by Ooni Ayetise .
Ooni Lajamisan ascended the throne following the demise of Ooni Ayetise as the 8th Ooni of Ile Ife.Lajamisan was succeeded by Ooni Lajodoogun who was also succeeded by Ooni Lafogido as the 10th Ooni of Ile Ife. Ooni Odidimode Rogbeesin ascended the throne as the 11th Ooni of Ile Ife and following his demise, he was succeeded by Ooni Aworokolokin , the 12th traditional ruler of Ile Ife. Aworokolokin was succeeded by Ooni Ekun who was in turn succeeded by his son, Ooni Ajimuda . Ooni Gboonijio ascended the throne as the 15th Ruler and was succeeded by Ooni Okanlajosin who was in turn succeeded by Ooni Adegbalu who preceded Ooni Osinkola who was succeeded by Ooni Ogboru,Ooni Giesi ascended the throne as the 20th Ruler of the ancient city and was succeeded by Ooni Luwoo who was a female Ruler. Other rulers with the title before the 16th century includes Ooni Lumobi, Ooni Agbedegbede , Ooni Ojelokunbirin, Ooni Lagunja, Ooni Larunnka, Ooni Ademilu , Ooni Omogbogbo succeeded by Ajila Oorun .Ooni Adejinle ascended the throne as the 30th ruler of Ife and was succeeded by his son, Ooni Olojo who was succeeded by Ooni Okiti . Following the demise of Ooni Okiti, Ooni Lugbade became the Ooni of Ife and was succeeded by Ooni Aribiwoso who preceded Ooni Osinlade who was succeeded by Ooni Adagba, the father of Ooni Ojigidiri who was succeeded by Ooni Akinmoyero in 1770. Following the demise of "Ooni Akinmoyero" in 1800, Ooni Gbanlare ascended the throne but died in 1823. He was succeeded by Ooni Gbegbaaje who only spent 12 years on the throne before his demise in 1835, the same year Ooni Wunmonije became the paramout ruler.Wunmonije joined his ancestors in 1839 and was succeeded by Ooni Adegunle Adewela who reigned for 10 years until his demise in 1849. He was succeeded by Ooni Degbinsokun who reigned between 1849 to 1878.
Following his demise in 1978, he was succeeded by Ooni Orarigba who only spent 2 years on the throne. In 1880, Ooni Derin Ologbenla ascended the throne and reigned for 14 years before his demise in 1894. Ooni Ologbenla was succeeded by Ooni Adelekan Olubuse I who died in 1910. Following the demise of Ooni Olubuse I in 1910, Ooni Adekola ascended the throne as an interim Ruler and was succeeded by Ooni Ademiluyi Ajagun who reigned for 20 years before his demise in 1930.He was succeeded by Ooni Adesoji Aderemi who reigned for 50 years. He died in 1980 and on July 1980, Ooni Okunade Sijuwade ascended the throne till August 2015.
To become Ooni, Ogunwusi defeated 20 other contenders, including his 48- year-old real estate- magnate brother, Adetunji, the Group Chairman of Primewaterview Holdings (comprising of Primewaterview Limited and PWV Management Services)
Adeyeye Enitan Ogunwusi (Appointed October 25, 2015)

I am taken aback when people put Alafin stool above Ooni stool, it is a misplacement of history at the highest level. Ooni's stool has been in place before Alafin's stool.

Oduduwa did not use the title of Ooni but he was Oba at Ife. The use of the Ooni title is recent just like many modern Yoruba traditional titles like the Alaafin and etc.

lawani:
Oduduwa did not use the title of Ooni but he was Oba at Ife. The use of the Ooni title is recent just like many modern Yoruba traditional titles like the Alaafin and etc.

bro you are getting it wrong ooni means the ownwer of ife land that is what oduduwa ascribed to himself when he get to ife. Any king who has ruled in ife is being refered to as Ooni. It is not rescent at all.

AKYEMITE:
bro you are getting it wrong ooni means the ownwer of ife land that is what oduduwa ascribed to himself when he get to ife. Any king who has ruled in ife is being refered to as Ooni. It is not rescent at all.

That is the rendition of the ruling houses in Ife and their underlings. They say Ooni means Oonile which means owner of the land but other Yoruba say No, it means otherwise, it means Omo Oluwo ni. I think that is also the account in Rev Samuel Johnson's book. Oduduwa never used that title. Oduduwa is not a property of Ife to the exclusion of others.

AKYEMITE:
bro you are getting it wrong ooni means the ownwer of ife land that is what oduduwa ascribed to himself when he get to ife. Any king who has ruled in ife is being refered to as Ooni. It is not rescent at all.

Lawani is right.
Oba is original, while Ooni, Alaafin, Attah, Owa, Akarigbo, Olu, etc are specific local names for various locations.

lawani:

That is the rendition of the ruling houses in Ife and their underlings. They say Ooni means Oonile which means owner of the land but other Yoruba say No, it means otherwise, it means Omo Oluwo ni. I think that is also the account in Rev Samuel Johnson's book. Oduduwa never used that title. Oduduwa is not a property of Ife to the exclusion of others.

what did oduduwa used?

The op opened thread to stop one dispute and you all are trying to initiate another.

lawani:

That is the rendition of the ruling houses in Ife and their underlings. They say Ooni means Oonile which means owner of the land but other Yoruba say No, it means otherwise, it means Omo Oluwo ni. I think that is also the account in Rev Samuel Johnson's book. Oduduwa never used that title. Oduduwa is not a property of Ife to the exclusion of others.

Rev Johnson was a descendant of alaafin abiodun. His book was biased in the sense that it attempts to legitimize Alaafins imperial claims over other neighbouring states.

What other Yorubas exactly were you referring to? The
The "omo oluwo ni" was what rev Johnson cooked up on page 24 of his book. I have never heard of that story from any other yoruba history or source.
Well researched journals and articles have been written after rev Johnson's book, and non acknowledges the omo oluwo theory.

It's also funny the book never acknowledged that Oduduwa met Obatala at Ife, rev johnson believed omo oluwo's mother was meant to be sacrificed to Obatala.lol.

saxywale:

Rev Johnson was a descendant of alaafin abiodun. His book was biased in the sense that it attempts to legitimize Alaafins imperial claims over other neighbouring states.
And what other Yorubas exactly were you referring to? The
The "omo oluwo ni" was what rev Johnson cooked up on page 24 of his book. I have never heard of that story from any other yoruba kingdom history or source.
It's funny the book never acknowledged that Oduduwa met Obatala at Ife, and believed omo oluwo's mother was meant to be sacrificed to Obatala.lol.

I know Rev Johnson was biased in favour of the Oyo but no Yoruba denies Ife origin. He also relayed a history saying many Ijesas are descendants of sticks! Ijesa omo igi saying he got the story from the Ifes and that Ijesha means Ije orisha or food of the orisas. He was shocked that people took pride in the name!

However Ijesa accounts acknowledge also that the mother of the first Ooni was an Oluwo.

Maybe Oduduwa the Meccan met a man named Obatala in Ife because my father's best friend in Ilesa back then was also nicknamed Orunmila but he could not have met Obataasa, Oba patapata lode Iranje.

lawani:

I know Rev Johnson was biased in favour of the Oyo but no Yoruba denies Ife origin. He also relayed a history saying many Ijesas are descendants of sticks! Ijesa omo igi saying he got the story from the Ifes and that Ijesha means Ije orisha or food of the orisas. He was shocked that people took pride in the name!

However Ijesa accounts acknowledge also that the mother of the first Ooni was an Oluwo.

Maybe Oduduwa the Meccan met a man named Obatala in Ife because my father's best friend in Ilesa back then was also nicknamed Orunmila but he could not have met Obataasa, Oba patapata lode Iranje.

I doubt the
Ijesha's account though, I have honestly never heard of that tale before from any of the ijesha I have met both home and abroad. i put a call through to an in-law (an aromolaran) just south of the bother today, and he has never also heard of the ijesha omo oluwo version as well. oh well. And I don't believe Oduduwa came all the way from mecca to ife..lol. That's a journey of how many days, kanako sef no fit shorten that kind of journey

And concerning the 1st Ooni, if you do not agree that Oduduwa was an Ooni, then the 1st Ooni could have been a descendant of Obatala(obamakin).
A lot of research work recognises the fact that descendants of Obatala reigned again in ife after the death of Oduduwa, with obalufon 2 being the most popular as all those ife bronze head and sculptures were credited to his reign. It was the arrival of Oranmiyan back in ife to reign as an Ooni that effectively ended the obatala's dynasty. And of course, there are still descendants of Obatala in ife, and some other towns in osun like ifon-osun that can back that claim up.

saxywale:
I doubt the
Ijesha's account though, I have honestly never heard of that tale before from any of the ijesha I have met both home and abroad. i put a call through to an in-law (an aromolaran) just south of the bother today, and he has never also heard of the ijesha omo oluwo version as well. oh well. And I don't believe Oduduwa came all the way from mecca to ife..lol. That's a journey of how many days, kanako sef no fit shorten that kind of journey

And concerning the 1st Ooni, if you do not agree that Oduduwa was an Ooni, then the 1st Ooni could have been a descendant of Obatala(obamakin).
A lot of research work recognises the fact that descendants of Obatala reigned again in ife after the death of Oduduwa, with obalufon 2 being the most popular as all those ife bronze head and sculptures were credited to his reign. It was the arrival of Oranmiyan back in ife to reign as an Ooni that effectively ended the obatala's dynasty. And of course, there are still descendants of Obatala in ife, and some other towns in osun like ifon-osun that can back that claim up.

It is healthy to have doubts but accounts are accounts. That someone is Aromolaran does not mean he knows history. You know history only if you are interested in it enough to study it and analyse it. I did not make any of the accounts up. I got them from books and from oral accounts in Ilesa. Not everybody is interested and you can not analyse what you are not interested in. I don't believe the Mecca story was made up or the Waddai story of the Awujale. People who think their ancestors are primitive and foolish have such beliefs. I don't have such beliefs, so I believe the Mecca and Waddai stories as passed down. I don't like doing embellishments.

We are descendants of the orisas, all of us and no one is more a descendant than another. The Obalufe is not more a descendant than the Ooni. The belief is that all humans are descendants of the orisas.

I believe there are still people alive today in Yoruba land, Muslims who went on hajj to Mecca and returned by foot. So there is nothing strange in Oduduwa coming from Mecca, he did not only come from there but also visited there again after settling in Ife. Ife was a big capital in those days.

lawani:


It is healthy to have doubts but accounts are accounts. That someone is Aromolaran does not mean he knows history. You know history only if you are interested in it enough to study it and analyse it. I did not make any of the accounts up. I got them from books and from oral accounts in Ilesa. Not everybody is interested and you can not analyse what you are not interested in. I don't believe the Mecca story was made up or the Waddai story of the Awujale. People who think their ancestors are primitive and foolish have such beliefs. I don't have such beliefs, so I believe the Mecca and Waddai stories as passed down. I don't like doing embellishments.

We are descendants of the orisas, all of us and no one is more a descendant than another. The Obalufe is not more a descendant than the Ooni. The belief is that all humans are descendants of the orisas.

I believe there are still people alive today in Yoruba land, Muslims who went on hajj to Mecca and returned by foot. So there is nothing strange in Oduduwa coming from Mecca, he did not only come from there but also visited there again after settling in Ife. Ife was a big capital in those days.

muslims go to mecca and return by foot? Pls stop sounding like a child that believes every fairy-tale

Oduduwa was no Meccan. .. what do yoruba call mecca? what can we say about mecca? even our knowledge of Arabs came through the hausa ...that's why we call them the same thing hausa call them - larubawa

it's not difficult to figure out a falacy like this. ..I don't know why you believe everything you read

saxywale:

Rev Johnson was a descendant of alaafin abiodun. His book was biased in the sense that it attempts to legitimize Alaafins imperial claims over other neighbouring states.

What other Yorubas exactly were you referring to? The
The "omo oluwo ni" was what rev Johnson cooked up on page 24 of his book. I have never heard of that story from any other yoruba history or source.
Well researched journals and articles have been written after rev Johnson's book, and non acknowledges the omo oluwo theory.

It's also funny the book never acknowledged that Oduduwa met Obatala at Ife, rev johnson believed omo oluwo's mother was meant to be sacrificed to Obatala.lol.

the "Omo Oluwo ni" Saga is just one of the few things I don't disagree with Samuel Johnson

I was first told by a babalawo from Oyo that after Olofin (that is Oduduwa) there was another civil war between the house of Oduduwa and Obatala and at that time the heir of Oduduwa(my guess is Ogun) had no child until he almost sacrificed a slave woman who happened to be pregnant for him. ..the child grew up to contend for his father's throne but other family members rejected him saying "Omo Oluwo ni" Oluwo the slave of many years ago. .. at Obokun I confirmed the story as the Owa Obokun Ajibogun was said to have invited him and gave him a land known as Ifewara today.


so subsequent Obas at Ife became known as Omo Oluwo ni = Ooni

AKYEMITE:

what did oduduwa used?

Olofin, Olufe

Oba as a term is a chieftaincy title in Ife.

3 years ago or so, some person from Ekiti was crowned 'Oba Asa' - King of Culture. (WTF?!). He has now been de-crowned anyways.

Oba and Owa in Ife do not mean supreme king/ruler. The chiefs of clans use the tag 'Oba' or Owa.

Oduduwa did not use 'Oba' because he had no claim to land outside of his or any clan outside of his hamlet in Ife and Oramfe was the head of the hamlet and clan he came from.

Hence; Ooni.

Person wey nor get land

Or

Person wey get the whole land

Depending on what side you choose to look at it.

Odede didn't use 'Oba', Neither did he use Alaafin.

The people who came after him wore those appellations.

Saying someone walked from Mecca, some people descended from the galaxy with spaceships, confusing myth with actual history makes no sense whatsoever.

macof:

Olofin, Olufe

That is true. The title of the Oba of Ife Ooyelagbo was Olofin Aiye or Olu/ Oba of Ife. Like most present titles, the Ooni title is new.

macof:

the "Omo Oluwo ni" Saga is just one of the few things I don't disagree with Samuel Johnson

I was first told by a babalawo from Oyo that after Olofin (that is Oduduwa) there was another civil war between the house of Oduduwa and Obatala and at that time the heir of Oduduwa(my guess is Ogun) had no child until he almost sacrificed a slave woman who happened to be pregnant for him. ..the child grew up to contend for his father's throne but other family members rejected him saying "Omo Oluwo ni" Oluwo the slave of many years ago. .. at Obokun I confirmed the story as the Owa Obokun Ajibogun was said to have invited him and gave him a land known as Ifewara today.


so subsequent Obas at Ife became known as Omo Oluwo ni = Ooni

Have you ever attempted a rendition of Omo Oluwo ni into how it fits into Ooni as against Ooni o ni ile?

Did you keep in mind that Ogun to Obalufon II were of Obatala's dynasty?

Wrong history @ the emboldened.

Two brothers vied for the throne.

Otutu and Olowoyelu from the line of Lafogido.

Otutu was the younger brother but he was picked to fill the office of Ooni.

Olowoyelu the older brother was angered by this and decided to leave Ife.

A hunter (can't recall his name) had him and his followers settled at Iwara, he became king and used the title of Ooni as well.

Which was later changed to Olufewara and was then changed to Adimula of Ifewara.

Otutu is one of the royal lines in Ife today and they produced Ademiluyi.

lawani:


That is true. The title of the Oba of Ife Ooyelagbo was Olofin Aiye or Olu/ Oba of Ife. Like most present titles, the Ooni title is new.

Do you understand 'Oba' as a term is for chiefs?

This is why supreme kings do not use Oba but rather some other appellation, sometimes derived from the name of their domain?

'Olofin' is what members of 'awo' and 'ogboni' call (till today) Oduduwa - if you've been to any Ogboni or Awo gatherings, not necessarily what he gave himself.

'Ooni' was the title people of Ife called him.

9jacrip:


Have you ever attempted a rendition of Omo Oluwo ni into how it fits into Ooni as against Ooni o ni ile?

Did you keep in mind that Ogun to Obalufon II were of Obatala's dynasty?

Wrong history @ the emboldened.

Two brothers vied for the throne.

Otutu and Olowoyelu from the line of Lafogido.

Otutu was the younger brother but he was picked to fill the office of Ooni.

Olowoyelu the older brother was angered by this and decided to leave Ife.

A hunter (can't recall his name) had him and his followers settled at Iwara, he became king and used the title of Ooni as well.

Which was later changed to Olufewara and was then changed to Adimula of Ifewara.

Otutu is one of the royal lines in Ife today and they produced Ademiluyi.

Well, I've favored the omo oluwo ni but I'm not saying it's the authentic version...it appears to come only from Oyo sources


no, Ogun is not of Obatala. ..pls confirm. you should know better

I'm not even familiar with Ifewara so I can't say

macof:


Well, I've favored the omo oluwo ni but I'm not saying it's the authentic version...it appears to come only from Oyo sources


no, Ogun is not of Obatala. ..pls confirm. you should know better

I'm not even familiar with Ifewara so I can't say

Oyo's agenda has been to subvert Ife throne.

Their argument has been that the Oonis after Oduduwa have been nothing but descendants of the slave woman.


Ogun in this case is not the Ogun god.

After Oduduwa, there was a vacancy which Obatala's people filled till Oranmiyan came back.


The history you confirmed at Obokun is wrong sir.

9jacrip:


Do you understand 'Oba' as a term is for chiefs?

This is why supreme kings do not use Oba but rather some other appellation, sometimes derived from the name of their domain?

'Olofin' is what members of 'awo' and 'ogboni' call (till today) Oduduwa - if you've been to any Ogboni or Awo gatherings, not necessarily what he gave himself.

'Ooni' was the title people of Ife called him.

Please do not turn things upside down. Oba is the word for King in Yoruba language. Titles like Owa Obokun, Alaafin, Ooni, Atawoja, Awujale and etc are orikis of Obas.. The name they are fondly called. Olu means most important person or prime person. Oloja means owner of the market and in Ijesa it is like a duchy. The Oja or market is always in front of the palace in Yoruba towns. Hence the Loja is the owner. The Oba rules an empire containing many towns and many markets. So in Ijesa for instance, there are many Lojas but only one Oba who is the Owa Obokun but nowadays many are Oba.

All the Yoruba refer to Oduduwa as Olofin Aye or King of Earth so that was his title. Ooni is new. What they say in Ogboni is what happened in the past, a secret language learnt by the Awo was our language. Pls don't turn things upside down

lawani:


Please do not turn things upside down. Oba is the word for King in Yoruba language. Titles like Owa Obokun, Alaafin, Ooni, Atawoja, Awujale and etc are orikis of Obas.. The name they are fondly called. Olu means most important person or prime person. Oloja means owner of the market and in Ijesa it is like a duchy. The Oja or market is always in front of the palace in Yoruba towns. Hence the Loja is the owner. The Oba rules an empire containing many towns and many markets. So in Ijesa for instance, there are many Lojas but only one Oba who is the Owa Obokun but nowadays many are Oba.

All the Yoruba refer to Oduduwa as Olofin Aye or King of Earth so that was his title. Ooni is new. What they say in Ogboni is what happened in the past, a secret language learnt by the Awo was our language. Pls don't turn things upside down

The emboldened makes no sense and the secret language is called 'Oro'fe', the original Ife dialect used for chants and conjuring. Are you an Ogboni or an Awo of any Orisa?

Oba, where I am from is a chieftaincy title. Obalufe, Obarese, Obadio, Obawinrin, Obalaaye etc

Owa, where I am from is a chieftaincy title. Owa Eredunmi for example

Oloja, where I'm from is a chieftaincy title it has nothing to do with market. Oloja Iranje for example.

Olu, where I'm from is a chieftaincy title. Olu'fon for example


Way before Ijesa or any other towns were founded, way before Oduduwa planned and implemented his coup, Ife has used Oba, Owa, Loja as chieftaincy/clan head titles.

The interesting part is, Oba, Owa, Oloja are all clan heads and control expanse of land where I'm from.

Since Ooni as a term is new, then why was is it in use since the inception of Ifewara till it was changed to Olufewara and Adimula Ifewara recently?

Stop bandying lies.

lawani:


That is true. The title of the Oba of Ife Ooyelagbo was Olofin Aiye or Olu/ Oba of Ife. Like most present titles, the Ooni title is new.

Oba of Ife ooyelagbo ke? I hope you know that Ife ooyelagbo was an entire cultural territory not a Centralized State

9jacrip:


The emboldened makes no sense and the secret language is called 'Oro'fe', the original Ife dialect used for chants and conjuring. Are you an Ogboni or an Awo of any Orisa?

Oba, where I am from is a chieftaincy title. Obalufe, Obarese, Obadio, Obawinrin, Obalaaye etc




Owa, where I am from is a chieftaincy title. Owa Eredunmi for example

Oloja, where I'm from is a chieftaincy title it has nothing to do with market. Oloja Iranje for example.

Olu, where I'm from is a chieftaincy title.


Way before Ijesa or any other towns were founded, way before Oduduwa planned and implemented his coup, Ife has used Oba, Owa, Loja as chieftaincy/clan head titles.

The interesting part is, Oba, Owa, Oloja are all clan heads and control expanse of land where I'm from.

Since Ooni as a term is new, then why was is it in use since the inception of Ifewara till it was changed to Olufewara and Adimula Ifewara recently?

Stop bandying lies.

Ifewara too is new, Ilesa is new and etc. They were old cities but names have been changed.

Owa means a ruler that came from somewhere else
Olu means prime person or King. You can be Olu Awo for instance

Oba means King in Yoruba language. If not what does King or emperor mean in Yoruba?

Oloja means Oni Oja owner of the market. In Ijesa you must have been Loja in a small town before being Oba Owa Obokun. You can't just become Owa Obokun like that.

Iranje was a city, an Ode, not even a small city, hence Obatala's oriki. Oba patapata lode Iranje. Great King in the city of Iranje. That Iranje is now used flimsily in Ife does not mean it was originally like that please.

No pun intended but you have a lot of info u have not analysed properly.

Oduduwa was made King whether he was Chinese or an Australoid does not matter anymore. He was a human being and his legacy can not be denied.

9jacrip:


Do you understand 'Oba' as a term is for chiefs?

This is why supreme kings do not use Oba but rather some other appellation, sometimes derived from the name of their domain?

'Olofin' is what members of 'awo' and 'ogboni' call (till today) Oduduwa - if you've been to any Ogboni or Awo gatherings, not necessarily what he gave himself.

'Ooni' was the title people of Ife called him.

that's true. .. reason why some princes and nobles who left Ife adopted "Oba" was to signify a lesser status to the Olofin at Ife

even the Awori founded was called Olofin never Oba

lawani:


Ifewara too is new, Ilesa is new and etc. They were old cities but names have been changed.

Owa means a ruler that came from somewhere else
Olu means prime person or King. You can be Olu Awo for instance

Oba means King in Yoruba language. If not what does King or emperor mean in Yoruba?

Oloja means Oni Oja owner of the market. In Ijesa you must have been Loja in a small town before being Oba Owa Obokun. You can't just become Owa Obokun like that.

Iranje was a city, an Ode, not even a small city, hence Obatala's oriki. Oba patapata lode Iranje. Great King in the city of Iranje. That Iranje is now used flimsily in Ife does not mean it was originally like that please.

No pun intended but you have a lot of info u have not analysed properly.

Oduduwa was made King whether he was Chinese or an Australoid does not matter anymore. He was a human being and his legacy can not be denied.

You're a very funny person.

You just take a word and flip it and give it a meaning.

If Owa means someone who came from somewhere then what does Owari mean? And why wasn't Oduduwa called 'Owa'?

Oja in Oloja does not even mean market . This guy nor go kee person.

Oloja in Idita context mean a person who renders a place mute/quiet as a grave yard during the festival. There are certain processions, invocations and during the festival - Oloja will suddenly declare 'O d'oja' and this means everyone/everywhere gets quiet as a grave. No words are said or whispered.

Olu can mean 'brave one of' or 'leader of'

Ode doesn't even mean 'city' in Yoruba. Ode is an opposite of Igbo (as in Ijebu Igbo and Ijebu Ode).

@Emboldened: You need to slow down here sir. You know nothing of Iranje-Idita, its history and its occupants; so just chill. If Iranje-Idita now isn't how it was back then (as per expanse of land, palace structure and arrangement of families) you may as well want to tell me/us how it was?

You want to debate, make declarations, renditions off of your own thoughts and myth not necessarily what is available on ground and you want people to accept such?

Do not sit yourself in Ilesa, absorb the false stories you get told and make conclusions. If Ife history interests you, go to each important compound in Ife to conduct Ife or go to the palace to meet Emeses, they'd be of help.

macof:


that's true. .. reason why some princes and nobles who left Ife adopted "Oba" was to signify a lesser status to the Olofin at Ife

even the Awori founded was called Olofin never Oba

Olofin as a term is another word for Olodumare, it is originally used to refer to GOD the creator.

Awo/Ogboni sometimes use it to reference Oduduwa.

Yes, Awori founder is called Olofin as well.

9jacrip:



You're a very funny person.

You just take a word and flip it and give it a meaning.

If Owa means someone who came from somewhere then what does Owari mean? And why wasn't Oduduwa called 'Owa'?

Oja in Oloja does not even mean market . This guy nor go kee person.

Oloja in Idita context mean a person who renders a place mute/quiet as a grave yard during the festival. There are certain processions, invocations and during the festival - Oloja will suddenly declare 'O d'oja' and this means everyone/everywhere gets quiet as a grave. No words are said or whispered.

Olu can mean 'brave one of' or 'leader of'

Ode doesn't even mean 'city' in Yoruba. Ode is an opposite of Igbo (as in Ijebu Igbo and Ijebu Ode).

@Emboldened: You need to slow down here sir. You know nothing of Iranje-Idita, its history and its occupants; so just chill. If Iranje-Idita now isn't how it was back then (as per expanse of land, palace structure and arrangement of families) you may as well want to tell me/us how it was?

You want to debate, make declarations, renditions off of your own thoughts and myth not necessarily what is available on ground and you want people to accept such?

Do not sit yourself in Ilesa, absorb the false stories you get told and make conclusions. If Ife history interests you, go to each important compound in Ife to conduct Ife or go to the palace to meet Emeses, they'd be of help.

If you hear Ode Ijesa, Ode Ife and etc, those are references to ancient cities. Ijebu Ode is the more prominent and urbanized Ijebu while the Igbo was hidden and of lesser significance. I am not sure if there are other meanings of Oloja but in Ijesa Loja is the chief of a small town and in all Yoruba towns the chief owns the Oja which is the market in front of the palace. An Oba is an emperor. So lesser Kings are Lojas so far Ijesa is concerned

I will say Olofin is a kind of title meaning Christ or perfect person or ruler, I am inferring this from the etymology of the name. Ofin means perfect even in modern Yoruba like in ofin toto but this is just an inference from how the word is used. The Oba of Ife was called Olofin aiye in the past.

I am learning and I do not know it all but I will like you to explain how Obatala was a lesser king under anybody not to talk of a certain Oduduwa. About Olojas, so far Ijesa is concerned Lojas are minor chiefs who control the market in their domain since the market represents the economy.

Oduduwa was Owa, Owa means newcomer apparently and I don't know about Owari haven't heard the tonation. Oduduwa was Owa and might have been named Owa I believe if not because of the more significant event of being the son of an Oluwo.

Pls logic and everything are necessary to arrive at sound conclusions. Some of you here say ancient people were not astronauts yet you don't know how the Egyptian pyramids were built or how the huge stones in Stonehenge were quarried in Scotland and moved to their present location. Fact is they may have been astronauts

lawani:


If you hear Ode Ijesa, Ode Ife and etc, those are references to ancient cities. Ijebu Ode is the more prominent and urbanized Ijebu while the Igbo was hidden and of lesser significance. I am not sure if there are other meanings of Oloja but in Ijesa Loja is the chief of a small town and in all Yoruba towns the chief owns the Oja which is the market in front of the palace. An Oba is an emperor. So lesser Kings are Lojas so far Ijesa is concerned

I will say Olofin is a kind of title meaning Christ or perfect person or ruler, I am inferring this from the etymology of the name. Ofin means perfect even in modern Yoruba like in ofin toto but this is just an inference from how the word is used. The Oba of Ife was called Olofin aiye in the past.

I am learning and I do not know it all but I will like you to explain how Obatala was a lesser king under anybody not to talk of a certain Oduduwa. About Olojas, so far Ijesa is concerned Lojas are minor chiefs who control the market in their domain since the market represents the economy.

Oduduwa was Owa, Owa means newcomer apparently and I don't know about Owari haven't heard the tonation. Oduduwa was Owa and might have been named Owa I believe if not because of the more significant event of being the son of an Oluwo.

Pls logic and everything are necessary to arrive at sound conclusions. Some of you here say ancient people were not astronauts yet you don't know how the Egyptian pyramids were built or how the huge stones in Stonehenge were quarried in Scotland and moved to their present location. Fact is they may have been astronauts

The first emboldened shows you need a lot to brush up on.

Ode in reference to settlement used when there are two kinds.

Ode Iranje in this context does not mean city. There were two - Iranje ile and Iranje Oko. Apparently, Iranje Oko is the Iranje Ode where Obatala went on to become king when Osangangan Obamakin vacated his throne for him.

Ijebu Igbo

Ijebu Ode

Ode Iremo

Iremo


I don't know how your Ilesa folks arrive at Loja being ascribed to the market - rather than sit in your comfort zone, go out or make calls, ask questions and school all of us here. Where I'm from, all other clan heads are 'Oba' only the head of Iranje is called Oloja Iranje-Idita.

Obatala was no lesser king. Ife pre-Oduduwa was a confederacy, everyone ran his domain and everyone was equal. Your level of followership vis a vis Oogun fetches you some type of reverence. Obatala was his position tag, he had his real and actual name. You do not expect the 2 lines of the family to tag whomever develops to the top through the ranks as 'Obatala'. After a person gets to Obalesun from Ilesun line or a person gets to Obalale from Ilale line, you do not become 'Obatala' you become Oloja Iranje. And whomever is familiar with Iranje Idita knows from Igbo Itapa through Moore to Mokuro till Ilesa border knows there's no market whatsoever other than Oja Oba beside ayegbaju church which falls under the jurisdiction of the Ooni.

Olofin could be Olu-Ofin or Oni Ofin.
I don't know what it means but I know it has nothing similar with Jesus. Ifa refers to God the creator as Olofin, Oduduwa was referred as Olofin Aye which is just one of his many titles. Thus, insignificant here. Exceot we want to begin to consider all his titles.

So, Olofin Aye is now the title for kings of Ife but you said it was Oba? Was it because Macof said it? . Keep in Olufe was used as well as Oonirisa (eni ri orisa/eni orisa).

Nowhere in actual history, myth, folklore and Ifawas Oduduwa ever referred as Owa. How you came to this conclusion, I do not know. Owari is the full version of Owa. Owa is the short. So chill with your translation there and give us the full meaning of 'Owari'.

Logic requires researching from your environment and connecting dots similar. Logic is not drawing inference where there is none and logic isn't coming to absurd conclusions out of sheer mental laziness. Methods of how things are done by generations get lost, it doesn't necessarily mean astronauts came from wherever.

9jacrip:


The first emboldened shows you need a lot to brush up on.

Ode in reference to settlement used when there are two kinds.

Ode Iranje in this context does not mean city. There were two - Iranje ile and Iranje Oko. Apparently, Iranje Oko is the Iranje Ode where Obatala went on to become king when Osangangan Obamakin vacated his throne for him.

Ijebu Igbo

Ijebu Ode

Ode Iremo

Iremo


I don't know how your Ilesa folks arrive at Loja being ascribed to the market - rather than sit in your comfort zone, go out or make calls, ask questions and school all of us here. Where I'm from, all other clan heads are 'Oba' only the head of Iranje is called Oloja Iranje-Idita.

Obatala was no lesser king. Ife pre-Oduduwa was a confederacy, everyone ran his domain and everyone was equal. Your level of followership vis a vis Oogun fetches you some type of reverence. Obatala was his position tag, he had his real and actual name. You do not expect the 2 lines of the family to tag whomever develops to the top through the ranks as 'Obatala'. After a person gets to Obalesun from Ilesun line or a person gets to Obalale from Ilale line, you do not become 'Obatala' you become Oloja Iranje. And whomever is familiar with Iranje Idita knows from Igbo Itapa through Moore to Mokuro till Ilesa border knows there's no market whatsoever other than Oja Oba beside ayegbaju church which falls under the jurisdiction of the Ooni.

Olofin could be Olu-Ofin or Oni Ofin.
I don't know what it means but I know it has nothing similar with Jesus. Ifa refers to God the creator as Olofin, Oduduwa was referred as Olofin Aye which is just one of his many titles. Thus, insignificant here. Exceot we want to begin to consider all his titles.

So, Olofin Aye is now the title for kings of Ife but you said it was Oba? Was it because Macof said it? . Keep in Olufe was used as well as Oonirisa (eni ri orisa/eni orisa).

Nowhere in actual history, myth, folklore and Ifawas Oduduwa ever referred as Owa. How you came to this conclusion, I do not know. Owari is the full version of Owa. Owa is the short. So chill with your translation there and give us the full meaning of 'Owari'.

Logic requires researching from your environment and connecting dots similar. Logic is not drawing inference where there is none and logic isn't coming to absurd conclusions out of sheer mental laziness. Methods of how things are done by generations get lost, it doesn't necessarily mean astronauts came from wherever.

Loja in Ijesa are equivalent of Dukes in Britain. From the etymology of the title it means owner of the market. No one told me that since it is apparent enough. I will say Olofin means Olofintoto, also from the etymology of the title, no one told me that. Olofintoto means perfect which means Christ. I think I heard Owa Obokun Aromolaran on TV once refer to Oduduwa as Olofin aiye, another person mentioned it on this thread. So I believe that was is title. What is the meaning of Owari? You might be able to convince me but Yoruba names connotes a lot and wa means come, So Owa naturally means He who came. I believe the Oba of Ife would have been named Owa (why not?) since Oduduwa was a stranger, if not that a new event of making the Oluwo's son King happened.
God being a perfect ruler is also called Olofin which I also believe means Olofintoto.

To confirm that cities were referred to as Ode Oyo, Ode Ife, Ode Ondo and etc in the past, you will need to ask others or make research. I am surprised you don't know that.

Every ruler or emperor in Yoruba land is Oba. The Ooni is Oba of Ife, Alaafin is Oba of Oyo. Are you even Yoruba? What kind of questions are these you are raising?. Throughout Yoruba land Oba is King and not a clan head. If you say Oba is clan head in Ife, you are wrong and it shows you are very shallow. That titles like Obalufe, Obajio and etc occurs in Ife does not mean those people are Obas. The day the Obalufe says Emi ni Oba Ife will be the day he will be sacked. Don't you know there is no other word for King in Yoruba than Oba?. Pls stop spreading rubbish around sir. Whatever the Ife chiefs are calling themselves in their quarters does not change the meaning of Oba in Yoruba language. The only word for emperor is Oba.

You are the one lacking imagination and you are also mentally lazy to boot sir. Modern engineers can not replicate the pyramids built 5 thousand years ago. So our ancestors might have been star trekkers. Let that sink in.

Oonirisa is just a contraction of Ooni and orisa. I wonder why you are running away from the Oluwo story supported by two people, the Ijesa and the Oyo who have never been allies
Afterall the Oluwo was a human being.