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The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by true2god: 3:38am On Dec 30, 2015
Chizzled06:


Innocent blood was shed in the pursuit of religion. Justifying killing people because of difference in ideology exudes lack of empathy.

Have a rethink, brother. Try to reexamine the historic facts from a neutral perspective, from the Crusades to the Inquisitions. These things are as clear as day.

No-one is blaming you for the crimes of past Christians, only asking that you don't blame other good Muslims for the extremism of the heartless few.

I'm not a fan of any religion, Christianity and Islam alike, but that doesn't curb my spirit of humanity towards Christians and Muslims.
You are yarning rubish man, what is the reason for the crusade?
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by true2god: 3:46am On Dec 30, 2015
Chizzled06:


Really? Do you choose to be that ignorant?

And the Inquisitions too, I guess? An innocent ploy to rid threatened Christians nations of harmful unbelievers?


Even the Pope has apologised for these. You're in too deep, my friend
You are talking rubish man. The Pope apologized, not because the inqusition was wrong, but because innocent souls were lost. If the muslims had not invaded and occupied spain there will be no inquistion.

Has the grand-mufti of saudi arabia apologize for the islamic invasion, murder and looting of spain? The language you muslims understand is force, no apology. Mr hypocrite!

2 Likes

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Richirich713: 6:04am On Dec 30, 2015
Chizzled06:


The biggest mistake religious people make is to think that without their faith, ethics and morals wouldn't exist.

Without God, morality doesn't truly exist.

Its all subjective.

1 Like

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Annunaki(m): 6:57am On Dec 30, 2015
plaetton:


Wrong,lies, ignorance.

The crusades were 100% offensive, not defensive in any way.
And the crusaders were heartless in their genocidal rage, killing especially women, children, Jews, and even Christian sects not affiliated with Rome.

Arrogant expression of crass ignorance. I thought you were more intelligent than this I suggest you do more research on the subject matter instead of exhibiting foolishness on social media.

3 Likes

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Annunaki(m): 7:01am On Dec 30, 2015
plaetton:


Rubbish.

Did the inhabitants of the so-called holy land, the Jews, ever cried that they needed rescue?

[bb]Pope urban was the first religious head to ever justify a holy war, promising soldiers forgiveness and eternal bliss if they died in battle.[/b]

How about the destruction of Constantinople,.. Was that also a just war to defend what ..?

Funny that first European monarch to be crowned King of Jerusalem achieved that feet without spilling a single moslem or Jewish blood. He achieved it by simple negotiations with the khalifs of Jerusalem.

The bolded is another glaringly obvious lie. Mohamed was the first religious leader to justify holy war and he promised his fighters a sure ticket to muslim paradise and a harem of 72 virgins to bang for eternity.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Annunaki(m): 7:04am On Dec 30, 2015
Chizzled06:


Really? Do you choose to be that ignorant?

And the Inquisitions too, I guess? An innocent ploy to rid threatened Christians nations of harmful unbelievers?


Even the Pope has apologised for these. You're in too deep, my friend

The pope apologised for the excesses committed by the crusaders and not for for the crusades itself. The crusades were 100% justifiable and you owe your freedom to it today.

1 Like

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 7:27am On Dec 30, 2015
true2god:
You are talking rubish man. The Pope apologized, not because the inqusition was wrong, but because innocent souls were lost. If the muslims had not invaded and occupied spain there will be no inquistion.

Has the grand-mufti of saudi arabia apologize for the islamic invasion, murder and looting of spain? The language you muslims understand is force, no apology. Mr hypocrite!

1. I am not a Muslim

2. The inquisitions began in attempt to conquer sectarianism by the church. Christians killed Christians for proclamations against the Catholic doctrine. Anyone who claimed there was no God was burned at the stake. Hardly any mention of Islam.

3. You've clearly gotten your "facts" from some Christian extremist blogs. Read a book

1 Like

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 7:34am On Dec 30, 2015
Annunaki:


The pope apologised for the excesses committed by the crusaders and not for for the crusades itself. The crusades were 100% justifiable and you owe your freedom to it today.

How you can term the invasion of a nation because of the significance of its land to your faith as "100% justifiable" is beyond me. You are no worse than any extremist murderer.

If you think your freedom today is indebted to crusader murders, you are lost. You need to take a course in human history, especially religion.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 7:36am On Dec 30, 2015
Richirich713:


Without God, morality doesn't truly exist.

Its all subjective.


You underestimate the spirit of humanity.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 7:38am On Dec 30, 2015
true2god:
You are yarning rubish man, what is the reason for the crusade?

Are you asking for a remedial history lesson, or is there a point you are trying to make?
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 7:46am On Dec 30, 2015
chiedu7:


Lets assume they DID in the past, moslems are blowing people up NOW!

The evil we face NOW is Islam,

Islam is the only religion in the world the endorses violence


Soon now you'll look for me to blow me up
r

Well guess what? Christians are shooting people up NOW too!!

Most archaic religions with holy texts endorse violence. If you follow the bible word for word, you should be murdering all your neighbours with foreign beliefs. This was what "justified" the Crusades, Inquisitions and other crimes committed buy Christian fundamentalists till today.

Honestly, I'm at war with all organised religions alike; Christianity, Islam etc because they're all primarily delusional and can breed dangerous extremism.

Again the point of this post is you can disagree with a faith, but not blame all its followers for the acts of a few.

1 Like

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Annunaki(m): 9:26am On Dec 30, 2015
Chizzled06:


How you can term the invasion of a nation because of the significance of its land to your faith as "100% justifiable" is beyond me. You are no worse than any extremist murderer.

If you think your freedom today is indebted to crusader murders, you are lost. You need to take a course in human history, especially religion.

Stop talking rubbish, the crusaders went to Jerusalem to liberate it from the marauding jihadists who had earlier captured Jerusalem. If you are not the hypocrite that you are, you should have first condemned the islamist who invaded jerusalem before the crusaders went to liberate them.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by true2god: 9:57am On Dec 30, 2015
Annunaki:


Stop talking rubbish, the crusaders went to Jerusalem to liberate it from the marauding jihadists who had earlier captured Jerusalem. If you are not the hypocrite that you are, you should have first condemned the islamist who invaded jerusalem before the crusaders went to liberate them.
Dont mind the grand hypocrite. He spoke as if the crusade and inquisition happened spontaneously without a reason. A thief come to my house to rob and kill me (for the sake of allahh) but unfortunately for the armed robber I over-powered him and killed him.

According to Chizzled06's psychotic reasoning the armed robber (who came to my house to rob and kill me as commanded by allahh and mohammed in quran 9:29) is innocent while I (the crusader) am guilty for defending myself which led to the death of the armed robber (islamic jihadist).

Chizzle06 neeeds a proper psychometric test.

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Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 3:57pm On Dec 30, 2015
Annunaki:


Stop talking rubbish, the crusaders went to Jerusalem to liberate it from the marauding jihadists who had earlier captured Jerusalem. If you are not the hypocrite that you are, you should have first condemned the islamist who invaded jerusalem before the crusaders went to liberate them.

You don't seem to understand that the crusaders killed Jews, and Christians from other sects during the Crusades. This wasn't just Christianity vs Islam. Please try to educate yourself.

1 Like

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 4:00pm On Dec 30, 2015
true2god:
Dont mind the grand hypocrite. He spoke as if the crusade and inquisition happened spontaneously without a reason. A thief come to my house to rob and kill me (for the sake of allahh) but unfortunately for the armed robber I over-powered him and killed him.

According to Chizzled06's psychotic reasoning the armed robber (who came to my house to rob and kill me as commanded by allahh and mohammed in quran 9:29) is innocent while I (the crusader) am guilty for defending myself which led to the death of the armed robber (islamic jihadist).

Chizzle06 neeeds a proper psychometric test.

What about the thousands of Jews and orthodox Christians killed during the Crusades? What's your deluded excuse for their murder?

1 Like

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Annunaki(m): 5:06pm On Dec 30, 2015
Chizzled06:


You don't seem to understand that the crusaders killed Jews, and Christians from other sects during the Crusades. This wasn't just Christianity vs Islam. Please try to educate yourself.

I had earlier acknowledged that there were some excesses on the part of the crusaders during the crusades which the pope has now apologised for and I clearly condemn the excesses as well but the overall motive of the crusades was very honourable. In any war there is what you call collateral damage.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Ultimus: 6:04pm On Dec 30, 2015
chiedu7:
1] The Crusades was the catholic church trying to rescue the Holy Land from Moslems
2] The Crusades were in the PAST!
3] The Islamic Jihad has been going on since Mohammed uptil NOW

If this is an attempt at justification for the crusades, you are wicked and you are not smart.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Ultimus: 6:10pm On Dec 30, 2015
Annunaki:


The pope apologised for the excesses committed by the crusaders and not for for the crusades itself. The crusades were 100% justifiable and you owe your freedom to it today.

We cannot owe our freedom to the church when in fact the church spreads its tentacles or defends itself in its own interest. If Christianity had its way we will still be slaves in its empire today.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 6:54pm On Dec 30, 2015
Annunaki:


I had earlier acknowledged that there were some excesses on the part of the crusaders during the crusades which the pope has now apologised for and I clearly condemn the excesses as well but the overall motive of the crusades was very honourable. In any war there is what you call collateral damage.


You are lost, my friend. No different from jihadists who view their killings as "holy war"

And what about the Inquisitions? How do you "justify" those murders?
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by winner01(m): 10:59pm On Dec 30, 2015
Firstly change the topic to catholicisms violent past.

Secondly, christians are (People like Christ, i.e Christ-like) People who strive to be like Christ.
Well, we all know the kind of life Christ lived and so we can judge who was working for whom.

Thirdly and more interestingly, chizzled06 is not an atheist (at least, according to what he told me) He belongs to "somewhere" hes not really sure of.
But why is he against christianity (as vivid in some of his other posts), isnt it funny considering the fact that he's not an atheist undecided.

Atheists against christianity
spiritualists against christianity
Satanists against christianity
Solipsists against christianity
Deists will tell u "any god but the God of christianity"
Even People like ifeness who believe aliens are responsible for humanity are also against christianity.

Hell, these people claim to be against religion, not just christianity, but it gets clearer whom their hearts are quickened against.

And that really got me thinking, Could Christianity be the only threat to unaccountability, self worship, evil and insanity.

Its seems to be some sort of "great wall of china" standing in the way of the selfish and wicked desires of men and their terrible realisations. Its understandable.

Keep up the wasted efforts though.

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Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 5:36am On Dec 31, 2015
winner01:
Firstly change the topic to catholicisms violent past.

Secondly, christians are (People like Christ, i.e Christ-like) People who strive to be like Christ.
Well, we all know the kind of life Christ lived and so we can judge who was working for whom.

Thirdly and more interestingly, chizzled06 is not an atheist (at least, according to what he told me) He belongs to "somewhere" hes not really sure of.
But why is he against christianity (as vivid in some of his other posts), isnt it funny considering the fact that he's not an atheist undecided.

Atheists against christianity
spiritualists against christianity
Satanists against christianity
Solipsists against christianity
Deists will tell u "any god but the God of christianity"
Even People like ifeness who believe aliens are responsible for humanity are also against christianity.

Hell, these people claim to be against religion, not just christianity, but it gets clearer whom their hearts are quickened against.

And that really got me thinking, Could Christianity be the only threat to unaccountability, self worship, evil and insanity.

Its seems to be some sort of "great wall of china" standing in the way of the selfish and wicked desires of men and their terrible realisations. Its understandable.

Keep up the wasted efforts though.

"Those are other Christians. Not my kind of Christianity. They are not real Christians"

Exactly what this post is about. I'm not blaming you for their crimes. Just putting things into context to make you understand things from a honest Muslim's perspective.

All religions are delusions. Including yours. Organised religion is manipulative and ultimately harmful in its worst form.

But hating a religion doesn't mean I should hate its followers. They are the real victims.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Annunaki(m): 6:55am On Dec 31, 2015
Chizzled06:



You are lost, my friend. No different from jihadists who view their killings as "holy war"

And what about the Inquisitions? How do you "justify" those murders?

Obviously you lack comprehension skills, there is a clear and distinct difference btw the crusades which were defensive in nature and the jihads which were and is still offensive. Drawing a parallel btw the two is the height of intellectual dishonesty.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by winner01(m): 8:02am On Dec 31, 2015
Chizzled06:


"Those are other Christians. Not my kind of Christianity. They are not real Christians"

Exactly what this post is about. I'm not blaming you for their crimes. Just putting things into context to make you understand things from a honest Muslim's perspective.

All religions are delusions. Including yours. Organised religion is manipulative and ultimately harmful in its worst form.

But hating a religion doesn't mean I should hate its followers. They are the real victims.
Say what you will but we have a standard which is Jesus Christ.
Anybody can claim to be christian, and still desperately go against God.
mormons, Jws, catholics all claim to be christian when their beliefs are vividly different from the teachings of Christ.
Satanists have churches, even atheists now have mega-churches. I dont see any one of these people create a "mosque or shrine" for their "beliefs" or "unbelief", people who supposedly are against "religion".
Could it be in a bid to seperate the christians from Christ.

Only one who isnt grounded in the scriptures wont understand what is really going on.

Y'all say you're against religion but your heart says differently.
Turns out your hearts have been quickened to rebel against the one true God.
I know its beyond your control, if this is not proof of supernatural demonic posession then i dont know what is.

If really "all religions are delusional" like you say, then prove it, balance the hate.
Prove that you physically have the capacity to break away from demonic posession, prove that you can contend with evil and prevail.

This God, your God, Our God is the true God.
There is darkness and light, good and evil, life and death. You get to choose because of your freewill. There is no sitting on the fence. Choose life, that you might live.

Happy new year in advance.

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 8:47am On Dec 31, 2015
Annunaki:


Obviously you lack comprehension skills, there is a clear and distinct difference btw the crusades which were defensive in nature and the jihads which were and is still offensive. Drawing a parallel btw the two is the height of intellectual dishonesty.


Okay. The Christian murders (INVADING A NATION AND KILLING PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITH) are defensive, and hence okay but Muslim murders are barbaric. I get it.

But You didn't answer my question. What about the inquisitions? What's your "justification" for those killings?
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 8:53am On Dec 31, 2015
winner01:

Say what you will but we have a standard which is Jesus Christ.
Anybody can claim to be christian, and still desperately go against God.
mormons, Jws, catholics all claim to be christian when their beliefs are vividly different from the teachings of Christ.
Satanists have churches, even atheists now have mega-churches. I dont see any one of these people create a "mosque or shrine" for their "beliefs" or "unbelief", people who supposedly are against "religion".
Could it be in a bid to seperate the christians from Christ.

Only one who isnt grounded in the scriptures wont understand what is really going on.

Y'all say you're against religion but your heart says differently.
Turns out your hearts have been quickened to rebel against the one true God.
I know its beyond your control, if this is not proof of supernatural demonic posession then i dont know what is.

If really "all religions are delusional" like you say, then prove it, balance the hate.
Prove that you physically have the capacity to break away from demonic posession, prove that you can contend with evil and prevail.

This God, your God, Our God is the true God.
There is darkness and light, good and evil, life and death. You get to choose because of your freewill. There is no sitting on the fence. Choose life, that you might live.

Happy new year in advance.

I swear you're funny.

Your God, out of the 3000 others, is the one true God. All others are made up ones, all trying to distract people from serving the only real God, your God.

I get it. But don't you think it's funny that people of other faith will say the exact same thing?

"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also." Mark Twain.

It's easier to fool a man, than to convince him that he's been fooled.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by stonemasonn: 9:04am On Dec 31, 2015
The crusade was not defensive, it was a battle of supremacy between the western church in Rome which controls the whole of Europe and the eastern church in Constantinople which controls the entire middle east and Jerusalem. The Inquisition was a ploy by the Roman church to exterminate all atheists, free thinkers and any other non-conformists. Over one billion people including Jews, Muslims, Christians were killed under the watch of the pope.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by winner01(m): 10:20am On Dec 31, 2015
Chizzled06:


I swear you're funny.

Your God, out of the 3000 others, is the one true God. All others are made up ones, all trying to distract people from serving the only real God, your God.

I get it. But don't you think it's funny that people of other faith will say the exact same thing?

"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also." Mark Twain.

It's easier to fool a man, than to convince him that he's been fooled.
Reality stares at you. Its why you arnt in islams section.
Its 5000 gods according to most atheists and they arnt made up. I suppose you thought the demons that fell with lucifer all went into hiding.
We can do a little case study on nairaland for instance. The God that satanists, atheists, agnostics, spiritualists, alien believers, and nothing-believers like you are constantly against is the true God, ill leave you to determine who that God is.
No matter what evil or nothing sect you think you belong, it pitches you against the true God by default. Its why you uncontrollably talk against this God even when you claim to have the same feeling for other gods.
You choose evil by rejecting the good, you choose failure by refusing to suceed, you choose death by rejecting life. Its the default setting of the world created by God.

Now you have shifted from "evidence" to the"multiple religion" theory. Dont worry, its called conscience, it makes you conscious of a greater authority. You can fight it all you want. Religion is false, God is God

“The current intellectual assault on God in Europe and North America is in fact a specific attack on Christianity – the faith that stubbornly persists in the morality, laws, and government of the major Western countries. . . .The God they fight is the Christian God, because He is their own God. . . .God is the leftists’ chief rival. Christian belief, by subjecting all men to divine authority and by asserting in the words ‘My kingdom is not of this world’ that the ideal society does not exist in this life, is the most coherent and potent obstacle to secular utopianism. . . . the Bible angers and frustrates those who believe that the pursuit of a perfect society justifies the quest for absolute power.”- Peter Hitchens

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Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by CoolUsername: 10:52am On Dec 31, 2015
Richirich713:


Joseph Stalin and the rest didn't do what they did to promote atheism. The same way nobody talks about Adolf Hitler as a christian atrocity, because even though he was a christian, he didn't do what he did to promote christianity.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by onetrack(m): 11:13am On Dec 31, 2015
There are a couple of other reasons for the crusades, neither of them religious. In those days in Europe there were many young landless noblemen who had nothing else to do but to fight each other, kind of like gang warfare, over large parts of Europe. Many thousands of people were killed as these gangs of heavily armed young men killed each other and ransacked towns and farms. The Pope wanted to use the Crusades as a way of getting these young men out of Christian areas and channel their energy into fighting non-Christians. The appeal of the Byzantine Emperor for help fit neatly into this solution.

Were the Crusades defensive wars? Yes and no. Yes in the sense that they were helping the Byzantines against the slow encroachment on their land by Turks. No in the sense that the people in the Middle East didn't invite them in and weren't necessarily happy to see them. Byzantine rule had been very harsh before the arrival of the Arabs. The Crusade against the Albigensians in France and the Slavs in Eastern Europe were definitely offensive wars.

Another reason for the Crusades was to boost the Pope's political influence in Europe. If he could organize successful crusades then that would, in effect, make him a powerful political figure in addition to a religious figure.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Annunaki(m): 11:20am On Dec 31, 2015
Chizzled06:



Okay. The Christian murders (INVADING A NATION AND KILLING PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITH) are defensive, and hence okay but Muslim murders are barbaric. I get it.

But You didn't answer my question. What about the inquisitions? What's your "justification" for those killings?

The so called Nation you are talking about was already under occupation by the jihadist. The crusaders went there to eject the criminals that occupied the holy land and that was definitely a good cause. I repeat you are a hypocrite for refusing to acknowledge the fact that Jerusalem was first attacked and captured by the jihadists. It's funny that it is the crusaders that went to liberate them that you are castigating.
Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Richirich713: 11:58am On Dec 31, 2015
CoolUsername:
Joseph Stalin and the rest didn't do what they did to promote atheism. The same way nobody talks about Adolf Hitler as a christian atrocity, because even though he was a christian, he didn't do what he did to promote christianity.

Stalin definitely promoted atheism in the Soviet Union.

And Hitler was no christian, people are not sure what he was, some even think he was a atheist.

Also the Op argument breaks down when we note that Jesus taught love and peace instead of war, the crusaders actions cannot be regarded as christian especially since it disobeys jesus basic teachings.

Jesus taught to :

Turn the other cheek. (Matthew 5:39)

Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Matthew 5:44)

When the fighting starts, flee (Matthew 24:16)

So calling the crusaders actions "christian" is just wrong.

1 Like

Re: The Crusades: Christianity's Violent Past by Chizzled06(m): 12:55pm On Dec 31, 2015
Annunaki:


The so called Nation you are talking about was already under occupation by the jihadist. The crusaders went there to eject the criminals that occupied the holy land and that was definitely a good cause. I repeat you are a hypocrite for refusing to acknowledge the fact that Jerusalem was first attacked and captured by the jihadists. It's funny that it is the crusaders that went to liberate them that you are castigating.

That went to liberate who from what please? The Christians' only concern was the piece of land. There was no-one forcefully under captivity that needed liberating.

You need a proper history class.

And you still haven't answered my question. What about the inquisitions? What's your "justification" for that?

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