What Does This Scripture Say Really? - Religion - Nairaland
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| What Does This Scripture Say Really? by ATMC(f): 4:04am On Dec 30, 2015 |
Hebrews 10:26 KJV:For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Does this mean that God will not forgive wilful sin? If yes then why are we told that Christ paid for the sins we will commit in future? without specifying if it be wilfully or not. Sukkot true2god Goshen360 plaetton olaadegbu pastorkun Francistony et al 1 Like |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by sukkot: 4:16am On Dec 30, 2015 |
ATMC:christ did not die for your sins. thats religious nonsense. christ died for the sins of the saints aka the lost sheep of the tribe of israel. the 144 k. that verse is for the saints. the saints sins were forgiven but subsequent sins will be counted. this was during the first coming. THE BIBLE IS A BOOK OF THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE. THAT PART OF THE BIBLE IS THE PAST. now you yourself ? you will always pay for your sins. do you fall sick ? do you know people in church who get killed in car accident ? who lose their job, who get hot water thrown on them ? who get maimed in car accidents ? who catch cancer ? etc etc ? all these are judgements. that shows your sins are not forgiven. you will always pay for your sins. you need to get out of this lies that pastors have told you. a well known pastor i know died in a plane crash, myles munroe. if his sins are forgiven and paid by christ why did he die in a plane crash ? hmmm. ALL THE EVIL YOU DO YOU WILL PAY FOR. TRUST ME MATTHEW 15 VS 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” <<< ONLY THE SAINTS WAS HE SENT TO DURING THE FIRST COMING. |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by ATMC(f): 4:27am On Dec 30, 2015 |
@sukkot this time around, who will he come for? BTW, the addressed in that verse, are they of the lost sheep or gentiles? |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by sukkot: 4:37am On Dec 30, 2015 |
ATMC:This time he coming for his saints and the few who gave up their life so that they could find it. those who removed themselves from the wickedness of this world. not many people. very few lol. narrow is the road. and yes that verse is for the lost sheep. |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by ATMC(f): 4:56am On Dec 30, 2015 |
comot here jhooor!^ |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by ATMC(f): 4:57am On Dec 30, 2015 |
Commo.t here jhooor!^ |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by samsard(m): 8:49am On Dec 30, 2015 |
sukkot:Not only do you have a warped understanding of science, you also have a terrible understanding of Christian scriptures. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by malvisguy212: 9:12am On Dec 30, 2015 |
The verse was for apostates, apostates are people who knows the truth but INTENTIONALLY reject it, they received not the truth, the book of Timothy say ; 2 Timothy 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. and their punishment was: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. Jesus described this type of people in the parable of the sower, they received the Gospel with joy but the cares of the world choke it and the word became unfruitfull to them. Matthew 13:18–23 The Parable of the Sower Explained 18 “Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately RECEIVES IT WITH JOY, 21 yet he has NO ROOT in himself,but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the CARES OF THE WORLD AND THE DECEITFULNESS OF RICHES CHOKE THE WORD ,and it proves UNFRUITFUL. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case va hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.” They sin willfully because they received not the truth after they have believe in it in the first place. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by sukkot: 1:58pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
samsard:I am in good company then mark 1 vs 27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? your problem is you have been indoctrinated for 500 years by the roman catholic church. now that you encounter the truth it sounds strange to you. why would someone die for your sins so that you can continue sinning ? does that even make sense to you ?. and if every christians sins are forgiven why do all these christians suffer, and catch diseases, and die in car crashes , or are poverty stricken ? why are they under so much judgement if their sins are forgiven ? or you think heaven and hell are places in the ground and in the sky ? heaven and hell are conditions on earth. so why are all the christians in hell if their sins are forgiven ? you have been indoctrinated 1 Like |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by sportskid(m): 3:00pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
It means if you continue in sin willfully,that is rejecting the salvation of christ ,there can be no more sacrifice that can save you. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 7:51pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
sukkot: Always talking trash as usual. ...  . Change as new year dey come o.2 Likes |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by sukkot: 7:53pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
Goshen360: salute my big chief. compliments of the season  1 Like |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 7:58pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
When that verse is read in context, it will mean a different thing which is what the verse is talking about. But if it's quoted as a single version, it will mean a different thing just like the usual religious interpretations we read with how that verse has been abused. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by samsard(m): 8:21pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
sukkot: 1 Like
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| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by sukkot: 8:26pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
[quote author=samsard post=41495689][/quote] |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 8:43pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
I'll contribute in details when I have much time. However, the verse is talking to the Jewish apostates but it's not saying God will not forgive or the sacrifice of Christ didn't cover "deliberate or willful" sins. Think about it, which sin that we commit is not involving your will or deliberation? Are you saying, someone who stole just suddenly found another person's item in his hands without a deliberate or wilful process? Or someone who committed adultery just suddenly found himself doing and then disappear? Or someone who lied never thought about it, just found himself lying? It was written to Jewish community who AFTER the knowledge of Christ or truth (being the perfect sacrifice for sin or sin offering) BUT THEY ARE STILL OFFERING SACRIFICES FOR SIN....There remains no more sacrifice after the once and for all times Christ offered. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by GooseBaba: 10:11pm On Dec 30, 2015 |
Goshen360: Lmao.... You no lie at all.... That's why he keeps changing monikers.. |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by christemmbassey(m): 2:39pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
Goshen360:bros, I've never read such 'trash' @Sukkot need to start from a b c. Happy new year! 1 Like |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 2:48pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
christemmbassey: Happy new year my man of God. Grace be multiplied unto you sir. |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by truthislight: 2:13am On Jan 03, 2016 |
Goshen360: @Goshen, What are you unto with the above? |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 4:43am On Jan 03, 2016 |
truthislight: I don't understand you o. More light please. |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by vooks: 5:44am On Jan 03, 2016 |
sukkot:Forgiveness of sins removes all suffering? Weed is bad for you 2 Likes |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by christemmbassey(m): 2:19pm On Jan 03, 2016 |
vooks: vooks:especially with empty stomach! 2 Likes |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by truthislight: 11:31pm On Jan 03, 2016 |
Goshen360: Did you forgot the question of the OP? And what do you think your answer is addressing from that your post in relation to her initial question? ATMC: Address the question in the light of what she posted and don't talk into the scripture. If you feel there are other scriptures bearing on the scripture she posted, please, bring it up. We all know that Hebrews was written to the Hebrew Christians, should that make it less significant to none Jewish Christians? hence, address the question directly and don't speak into it. Peace. Goshen360: Show Evidence at least that those Christians reference there were still making Animal Sacrifice, that such led to paul addressing them specifically and not binding on other Christians/Jews and none Jews Christians not guilty of such offence. 1 Like |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by ATMC(f): 12:56am On Jan 04, 2016 |
Goshen360 ^ |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 4:49am On Jan 04, 2016 |
truthislight: I answered what she was asking in her initial post. Maybe you didn't catch it. Her question was, Does this mean that God will not forgive wilful sin? If yes then why are we told that Christ paid for the sins we will commit in future? without specifying if it be wilfully or not. and my response was, ...but it's not saying God will not forgive or the sacrifice of Christ didn't cover "deliberate or willful" sins. PLUS, my answer was addressing the context or the verse as many people had taken it out of context and gave a wrong meaning to it. Read from verse, that verse had been talking about sin offering or sacrifice for sin. The "willful sin" in that verse is still in reference to what the context had been talking about from the beginning - sin offerings or sacrifice for sins. That is, their willful offering of sacrifice for sin IS THEIR SIN they are committing willing or will-fulling. If that verse is talking about our sins that we commit, then we have a problem. The problem is, tell me one sin that you and I commit that doesn't go through our will or thought or deliberate? And I gave examples. I am not the one reading into scripture, we have to let that verse in context as many folks\organizations are doing as seen on this forum. |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 5:32am On Jan 04, 2016 |
truthislight: 1 - Again, what I'm correcting here is context. YOU, YOURSELF, take that verse as it is and reading it as a single verse. Off course, it will something different entirely. BUT, read it in context, then you might make a meaning out of it. Again, her questions were, Does this mean that God will not forgive wilful sin? If yes then why are we told that Christ paid for the sins we will commit in future? without specifying if it be wilfully or not. a - God will forgive our (day-to-day) sins because right from Adam, every sin is deliberate and God knows we will commit them but we find a perfect sacrifice in Christ ONCE AND FOR ALL TIMES. b - All sins, past, present and future are all forgiven in Christ. When Christ offered himself as a perfect sacrifice for sins of the world, all sins are in the future tense because while we were yet sinners, Christ died for our sins and the sins of the world. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 2 - As per your second point, we have to first see what that verse in context is talking about before we can address a lot of things raising questions therein. I stand by the context that the "willful sin" is reference to willingly offering of sacrifices for sin WHICH IS THEIR WILLFUL SIN. Now, if some says, no, it is talking about our day to day sins, then the question will be. Which man, for instance doesn't know from childhood that stealing is wrong? or which man doesn't know that killing is wrong? or which man doesn't know sleeping with another man's wife is wrong etc? Does that mean God will not forgive such man? I don't think so! So, the phrase\sentence "...after that we have received the knowledge of the truth..." is not in reference to knowledge from childhood as everyone knows stealing is wrong, killing is wrong etc but a reference to THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF THE PERFECT SACRIFICE OF CHRIST FOR SINS but they are still deliberately or willingly offering sacrifices for sin WHICH IS THEIR WILLFUL SIN after their knowledge of truth. b - ...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Is a finishing line for the beginning of the verse and and the context BECAUSE OF THE ONCE AND FOR ALL TIMES OR PERFECT SACRIFICE OF CHRIST FOR SINS. This line, apart from or in context even shows there was still on going sacrifices being made for sins, hence the statement. Other scriptures? Hebrews 9:26, 7:27, 9:12, 1 Peter 3:18 amongst many. 3 - I'm not saying it is less addressing us as non-Jewish Christians. I only made that statement to show that some people, that is the Jewish Christians were doing something wrong after they have come to Christ\knowledge of truth and hence, the letter to the Hebrews correcting their errors\mistakes. That's what the whole book of Hebrews is all about - Change! From old to new and from rituals to Christ, from types\shadows to substance etc so that we, reading such will know its already corrected and don't make or keep making same mistakes. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by Goshen360(m): 5:44am On Jan 04, 2016 |
truthislight: It's very simple my brother. Something is going on that calls for the LETTER TO THE HEBREWS itself AS A CORRECTION LETTER and that's what the whole book is addressing not only sacrifices for sin. From old high priest to Christ being our high priest, to types and shadows vs Christ being the substance etc. Chapter 10 from verse one is an evidence by itself. Its began with the old sacrificial system for sins etc and entered the correction mode, if there wasn't an on-going old ways in the Judaism, there will be no need for letters to the Hebrews. So, we, non-Jewish Christians, we know and learn by that not to go in their ways because they were doing it and its already being corrected. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by truthislight: 11:27pm On Jan 04, 2016 |
Goshen360: The reason for my asking of the questions I had ask was for you to clarify on the statement you made that the reason why apostle Paul wrote that latter was because the Hebrew Christians were offering Animal Sacrifices, but you failed to show evidences for your take, hence, my questions remained unanswered. The book of Hebrews was addressed to the Hebrews showing them the superiority of the christian' way as against that of Judaism that was still in practice then. The ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ Led to the forgiveness of the inherited sin from our first father Adam, opening up the way to reconciliation with God. 2Cor 5:18,19 He let them see that becoming christian, they have the benefit of Jesus ransom sacrifice that led to the forgiveness of sins, Hence, they are to stay away from sin. That they cannot continue in sin as though they were in the old arrangement where They can carry on sinning and resorted to Animal Sacrifice continually. something inferior. He let them know that the blood of animals could not guarantee the forgiveness of sins really, as is of that of Christ, hence, they had to repeat it over and over again. When they sinned. But something superior was what Christ offered once for all times, hence, they should remain clean and not take the grace of God for granted since they cannot kill Jesus over and over again: .Hebrews10:26-29 26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three. 29 How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt ....................................... Similar message was what he Paul passes on when he asked, "should we continue in sin so that Grace may abound?" He answered: God forbid! Then he was not talking to Jewish Christians but the Romans, meaning that the message not to continue in sin since Christ will not die a second time is generic and applicable to all Christians: Romans6:10-15 10 For the death that he died, he died with reference to sin once for all time, but the life that he lives, he lives with reference to God. 11 Likewise you, consider yourselves to be dead with reference to sin but living with reference to God by Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore, do not let sin continue to rule as king in your mortal bodies so that you should obey their desires. 13 Neither go on presenting your bodies to sin as weapons of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, also your bodies to God as weapons of righteousness. 14 For sin must not be master over you, seeing that you are not under law but under Grace 15 What follows? Are we to commit a sin because we are not under law but under Grace? God forbid! .................................................. So, infering that Hebrews 10:29 was for those Christians that went back for animal sacrifice, I did not see evidence for such, but rather, it is sound advice for all Christians of all ages to abstain from sin as it is the message in all other part of the christian' manual. The provisions for a Christian that commits a sin is to meet the Elders of the church and they will grease him or her with oil, then the sin will be forgiven him. Should that then be the pattern? you be the judge. But then,, does God not know the one that is taking the underserved kindness of his for an excuse for loose conduct? The book of Hebrews ATMC posted addressed such beautifully. 1 Like |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by truthislight: 12:00am On Jan 05, 2016 |
Jude3-5 3 Beloved ones, although I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to urge you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones. 4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness(grace) of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ. 5 Although you are fully aware of all of this, I want to remind you that our God, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those not showing faith ............................... Brazen Conduct means gross moral laxity and immorality. The beautiful thing about the above Scripture and warning is the comparison with what happened to the Israelites that Yahweh/Jehovah had brought up out of Egypt. The passage said he later destroyed them not showing faith. It is a warning to Christians. That is said to be a warning for Christians. |
| Re: What Does This Scripture Say Really? by truthislight: 12:47am On Jan 05, 2016 |
Evidence that the death of Christ was for reconciliation of all men: 2Cor. 5:18,19. 18 But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not counting their offenses against them, and he entrusted to us the message of the reconciliation. ......................................... The death of Christ led to the forgiveness of Adamic Sin, opening a way for all the sons of Adam to approach God directly without need for animal sacrifice. A reconciliation. Romans11:13,14 13 Now I speak to you who are people of the nations. Seeing that I am an apostle to the nations, I glorify my ministry 14 to see if I may in some way incite my own people to jealousy and save some from among them. 15 For if their being cast away means reconciliation for the world, what will the acceptance of them mean but life from the dead? ................................................. With that reconciliation, every body have an opportunity to access God through Christ. Adam's sin had been a problem all along, separating man from God: Romans 5:18,19 18 So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, so too through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is their being declared righteous for life. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous ............................................ The ransom of Jesus primary serves to clear away the sin of Adam, enabling each and every one of mankind to start on a clean slate with God. Romans 5:12 12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned. ........................................................ To get the full benefits, one has to follow on the step of Christ closely. Peace. |
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