i agree with you for once. lol
that's sweet
I love kids as well and do that at church too

yea some kids are just too 

Its really sad that the only thing Nigerians can associate with discipline is "The Cane", Which I feel is more of a tool for oppression/suppresion rather than a corrective tool.

Can anybody here tell me that once they were flogged for an offence, they never broke that law again?? I was flogged for everything flogable in this world. Yet I still did those things for which I was flogged again, just that this time, I was more cautious to make sure I wasnt caught.

Kids raised with the cane are only good for as long as they are subject to the cane, the day the cane leaves, only then can you ascertain how much correction/damage you have achieved. Look at our universities for example, these are the end-products of our "cane". How do they fare in an open society like that?? Why do you think cultism is so prevalent?? Now they rebel against the authorities cos they know you cant flog them.

If the western world has abandoned this ancient form of discipline and yet still have bright minds, why not us?? The evidence of our crudeness reflects in our everyday lives, from the Police, to everything in uniforms.

NIGERIANS IN AND OUT OF POWER NOW BELIEVE THAT THE ONLY WAY TO GET ACROSS TO PEOPLE IS WITH A CANE e.g Police, military, man-o-war, Agboros sef, yellow fever _{(traffic police)}, LASTMA, e.t.c. In fact Nigerians dont follow rules anymore except there is someone chasing them around with a whip or a penalty.

And we wonder why there is no order in our society.

Okija_juju:

Its really sad that the only thing Nigerians can associate with discipline is "The Cane", Which I feel is more of a tool for oppression/suppresion rather than a corrective tool.

Can anybody here tell me that once they were flogged for an offence, they never broke that law again?? I was flogged for everything flogable in this world. Yet I still did those things for which I was flogged again, just that this time, I was more cautious to make sure I wasnt caught.

Kids raised with the cane are only good for as long as they are subject to the cane, the day the cane leaves, only then can you ascertain how much correction/damage you have achieved. Look at our universities for example, these are the end-products of our "cane". How do they fare in an open society like that?? Why do you think cultism is so prevalent?? Now they rebel against the authorities cos they know you cant flog them.

If the western world has abandoned this ancient form of discipline and yet still have bright minds, why not us?? The evidence of our crudeness reflects in our everyday lives, from the Police, to everything in uniforms.

NIGERIANS IN AND OUT OF POWER NOW BELIEVE THAT THE ONLY WAY TO GET ACROSS TO PEOPLE IS WITH A CANE e.g Police, military, man-o-war, Agboros sef, yellow fever _{(traffic police)}, LASTMA, e.t.c. In fact Nigerians dont follow rules anymore except there is someone chasing them around with a whip or a penalty.

And we wonder why there is no order in our society.

Yes the flogging worked.

The flogging helps us reduce teenage pregnacy to levels well below that of the unflogged in the West. Whether you like it or not, that suppression is wonderful and way better than the 'corrective' crap resignation of sex education being practiced in the West. They spend millions of pounds on this corrective tool and waste a lot of man-hours and yet still fail when compared to our oppression tools.

The flogging helped as the average Nigerian child from a decent school in Nigeria (even the FGCs) when transferred to the UK school does better than the unfloggeds here that were educated with 100 times better resources.

Cultism is prevalent because of lack of enforcement of laws. They smack very well in Ghana, yet why is there no cultism in their universities? They smack in Cameroun, how come there is no cultism in their universities? They smack in Qatar, how come there is no cultism in their universities? They smack in Malaysia, how come there is no cultism in their universities?

So why do you keep allocating the presence of cultism in our university to flogging?  I don't get it, this argument beats me.

me thinks Nigerian Schools' Disciplinary System is very good and very effective. In fact I will be sending my little bundle of joy to Naija to do his elementary and probably secondary school. Yes, I believe that's a good decision.

Though it also depends if things haven't changed. The Unity Schools are on top of my list.

Sagamite:

Yes the flogging worked.

The flogging helps us reduce teenage pregnacy to levels well below that of the unflogged in the West. Whether you like it or not, that suppression is wonderful and way better than the 'corrective' crap resignation of sex education being practiced in the West. They spend millions of pounds on this corrective tool and waste a lot of man-hours and yet still fail when compared to our oppression tools.

The flogging helped as the average Nigerian child from a decent school in Nigeria (even the FGCs) when transferred to the UK school does better than the unfloggeds here that were educated with 100 times better resources.

Cultism is prevalent because of lack of enforcement of laws. They smack very well in Ghana, yet why is there no cultism in their universities? They smack in Cameroun, how come there is no cultism in their universities? They smack in Qatar, how come there is no cultism in their universities? They smack in Malaysia, how come there is no cultism in their universities?

So why do you keep allocating the presence of cultism in our university to flogging?  I don't get it, this argument beats me.

I am right behind you. I did not die from being flogged and neither would my children.

slimfine:

I am right behind you. I did not die from being flogged and neither would my children.

Just cause you didnt dont mean there arent people who have died from it o!! Your kid _{(God forbid)} might not be as resilient as you were.

Okija_juju:

Just cause you didnt dont mean there arent people who have died from it o!! Your kid _{(God forbid)} might not be as resilient as you were.

Okija_juju:

Just cause you didnt dont mean there arent people who have died from it o!! Your kid _{(God forbid)} might not be as resilient as you were.

Yep. I am not going to apply a uniform approach to my kids.

I will study them and their personalities and apply bespoke upbringing to them and a lot of talking.

The ones that are like me when I was a child (confident, mischievious, resilient, hyper and absolutely cunning) are more likely to get the floggings.

Whilst the gentler ones (calm kids, especially the girls) are more likely to get told off of how they have disappointed me massively as words hurt them more and might achieve the objective. Smacking might occur when they really deserve it and after warning or if the offense is too obvious for anyone with a brain/conscience.

When I was a kid and someone had tried to use words to control me, I would have thought "What a pluncker, I know what I am doing" especially in my teenage years. Thank god my father was my father.

So removing the cane from the equation is as silly as saying you will only use a screwdriver when fixing your car and never use a spanner. Some you will fix, some you will work hours and still fail.

To me the cane is useful in the toolbox and should be appropraitely applied after careful appraisal.

This Sagamite. I don't know what gives you the impression that the uk is in moral meltdown Maybe it is just the sensational media headlines. The fact remains that most british kids are respectful and law abiding.

In nigeria what goes on is just hypocrisy and eye service. In fact you will be shocked at the level of moral decadence and indiscipline in nigerian boarding schools.

One final point I the West is so decadent what are still doing here?

tensor777:

This Sagamite. I don't know what gives you the impression that the uk is in moral meltdown Maybe it is just the sensational media headlines. The fact remains that most british kids are respectful and law abiding.

In nigeria what goes on is just hypocrisy and eye service. In fact you will be shocked at the level of moral decadence and indiscipline in nigerian boarding schools.

What the hell are you talking about

You don't think it is moral meltdown, when a country with all the knowledge, opportunities and resources:

- Has one of the highest hard and soft drug use in the world in young adults and children.
- Has one of the highest rates of under-age drinking and bad drinking habits.
- Has a school system where kids can destroy the teaching ambience by being disrupting, insulting and assaulting teachers in full glare.
- Has chidren that talk back, insult and refuse to listen to parents at a very young age and the parents can do nada.
- The children know everything about their rights but none about their responsibilities or the rights of others.
- Family breakdown and single parenthood is exploding and becoming the norm.
- Has one of the highest under-age pregnancy rates.
- Has one of the highest sexual active teenagers and is the norm.
- Has the best educational facilities but kids refuse to go to school and utilise it, whilst African kids will do anything including walking 5 miles a day to get education even knowing they will be beaten for not paying school fees.
- Kids have no respect for adults or authorities.
- Kids have one of the lowest school achievements in the developed world.
- Lost all perception of personal responsibilities and only demand the state should nanny them and provide for them.
- Everyone (inc. kids) have an "I want it, so therefore I surely deserve it (and 'now' for that matter) mentality", hence lost their financial capability and get themselves into the some the worst individual debt levels in the world at a young age buying crap and lack savings abilities.
- Being filled with some liberal BS and lost concept of practical societal progress and order, and will go nude at the drop of a hat for the fun of it.
- Where a significant proportion of children aspire to be celebrities and thinks they can be, irrespective of lack of abilities and looks, but put all their eggs into being one. And they cannot be (or it is not culturally appropraite for them to be) told otherwise, instead you are suppose to encourage them.
- Kids are exposed (unfiltered) to all the filth in the world through easy access to seedy media (internet porn, immoral tabloid papers, mobile phones at 10 yrs old, internet chat rooms, filthy TV programmes etc)


What moral decadence are you seeing in Nigerian boarding schools that compares with this?

tensor777:

One final point I the West is so decadent what are still doing here?

Eh . . . . . . . . . making money and building a profile.

Getting me sweet arse out of here once that is completed, as no bleeping child of mine is growing up here and having the western mentality.

I can tell if a child is british brought up or nigerian brought up by my first interactions with them.

Over here, I say hi to a 3 year old and she might look at me with disdain and say No in a cute way, and when you play with them they hit you hard. In Nigeria, I put my had out once to a cute child to say hi and the went on her knees and said good afternoon, i was in shock as i was not used to it anymore.

That to me is signs of good upbringing.

Thank you o jare, some of the children here sef wan ti baje ju jare.



Bawomolo,
You keep confusing correlation with causation. Because Nigeria is in a state of disarray because of our terrible politicians and bureaucrats does not mean that the way we discipline our children is poor.

The bible says it in the book of proverbs time and time and again that we should flog our children lest they go wayward, this has worked for thousands of years and this is what built up the british empire, now look what has happened to them.

Oh god, I laugh! More of the UK meltdown.

In the news today, £6m spent on failure and 'corrective' discipline. I am not raising my bloody child in this country.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1198228/6m-drive-cut-teen-pregnancies-sees-DOUBLE.html

[size=18pt]£6m drive to cut teen pregnancies sees them DOUBLE[/size]

A multi-million pound initiative to reduce teenage pregnancies more than doubled the number of girls conceiving.
The Government-backed scheme tried to persuade teenage girls not to get pregnant by handing out condoms and teaching them about sex.
But research funded by the Department of Health shows that young women who attended the programme, at a cost of £2,500 each, were 'significantly' more likely to become pregnant than those on other youth programmes who were not given contraception and sex advice.
A total of 16 per cent of those on the Young People's Development Programme conceived compared with just 6 per cent in other programmes.
Experts said the scheme failed because it introduced girls 'at risk' of becoming pregnant to promiscuous girls they might not otherwise have met.

Because of peer pressure, the more timid teenagers were more likely to have sex and become pregnant.
The £5.9million YPDP programme was also designed to slash cannabis use and drunkenness among teenagers, but made no difference whatsoever.
Last night ministers pledged to drop the scheme after admitting it had failed. Around 40,000 teenage girls become pregnant every year in the UK, the highest level in western Europe.
The failed YPDP, launched in 2004, was based on a similar scheme in New York claimed to have significantly reduced teenage pregnancies.

However, attempts to replicate the work elsewhere in the U.S. did not lead to a fall in teenage pregnancies, casting doubt on the project as a whole.
In England, 2,371 teenagers took part in the programme over three years. They were nominated by social workers, teachers or NHS staff who thought they were at risk of school exclusion, drug abuse and pregnancy.


The study, published online by the British Medical Journal, was carried out by Meg Wiggins, from the Institute of Education at the University of London and Chris Bonell, from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
They were commissioned by the Department of Health to evaluate the programme independently.
They concluded that 'at best, the programme had no impact - and at worst it had a negative impact'.
A Department of Health spokesman said: 'This pilot was based on a successful American programme. It did not appear to reduce teenage pregnancy so we will not be taking it any further.'


Case study - Lucy Lanelly
By the time she reached the age of consent (16), Lucy Lanelly had become pregnant four times.
And on each occasion the teenager from Toll Bar, South Yorkshire, had an abortion.
Now 19, she became pregnant at 12 after a single encounter with a 15-year-old boy.
She was then given a three-month contraceptive jab but failed to get another one.
The following year Lucy became pregnant by a 19-year-old man at a party. Her third pregnancy was by a 15-year-old boy who said he was infertile.
The last pregnancy was by her boyfriend Jack, 20, when a condom failed.
Lucy said: 'I don't regret having the terminations because I was too young to have a baby, but I do regret having sex when I wasn't mature enough to deal with it.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The best sex education/contraceptives, in my opinion, is the FEAR of what your mother will do to you if she finds out you are pregnant (or evenly merely having sex). It worked fantastically in my time.

Suppressive discipline please!

Cost: £0 million

SIMPLE . CHEAP . EFFICIENT

Okija_juju:

Just cause you didnt dont mean there arent people who have died from it o!! Your kid _{(God forbid)} might not be as resilient as you were.

They will be very resilient like their mama. Besides, I won't beat my children to the point of death! absurd and unimaginable!

Dafidif and Sagamite, you guys keep it up.

I'm mightly proud

Bawomolo, gbenu e so n jare

They will be very resilient like their mama. Besides, I won't beat my children to the point of death! absurd and unimaginable!

Slimfine, you just don't get it do you? nobody is saying that you should kill your children but a little flogging to correct them is not as bad as you say it is. Even the bible, God's own word has said that "spare the rod and spoil the child". In fact, this point is emphasized all throughout the book of Proverbs and yet you think you are as wise as God, keep decieving yourself. Even civillizations who don't believe in the bible do believe in a good whipping. Some of them embraced this as a very effective method of discipline and it has worked. Going against it is foolishness.

Oya now, when you are married come speak to me 21 years later and let's see how things turn out.

@ davidif

You seem to be going off point on two counts. Slimfine actually supports reasonable chastisement.

Secondly the topic is not about corporal punishment but about the disciplinary system in Nigerian schools,which judging by general pupil behaviour is not very effective irrespective of the amount of flogging that goes on there.

In fact some Nigerians have this daft belief that disciplining a child is all about flogging. No it is about leading by example and being consisistent in word and deed. The cane should only be used at the last resort when more reasonable methods have failed

Trust me it is definately effective. I support it 100% but the only problem is with such act its hard to know when such action is done out of anger or hate. I was disciplined when I was back home and outcome has taken me a long way to become a better citizen.

gosh so long. lol

The best sex education/contraceptives, in my opinion, is the FEAR of what your mother will do to you if she finds out you are pregnant (or evenly merely having sex). It worked fantastically in my time.

Suppressive discipline please!

lol. the fear is that they will throw you out or you will be ostracized by family and society. I mean beating won't take the baby out of your tummy!! unless the plan is to abort it that way lol
here children usually become of legal and independent age when they turn 18. they can work and all that so they're not really scared of being "thrown out" whereas in naija, "children" continue to live with their parents into their mid 20s etc lol of course no parent wants the extra mouth to feed.
with americans once you're 18 u can pretty much do anything u want. u're no longer a child. you're an adult!! even though you're still a teenager.
about societal implication, just as in naija, teen pregnancy is rarer in wealthier places than in poor places.
It happens in naija too!!! just doesn't appear in the news or in data.

but i guess this sort of has to do with discipline. americans need to discipline their kids more about sex and drinking.
but what have you got to say about naija's area boys and touts? They are very rampant in the country. would you blame that on naija's school's disciplinary system?
oh and also armed robbers.

Trust me it is definately effective. I support it 100% but the only problem is with such act its hard to know when such action is done out of anger or hate. I was disciplined when I was back home and outcome has taken me a long way to become a better citizen.

Emeka, thanks jo, i too am a living testimony of that.

but what have you got to say about naija's area boys and touts? They are very rampant in the country. would you blame that on naija's school's disciplinary system?
oh and also armed robbers.

Like i said earlier, this is a classic example of confusing correlation with causation. Because Michael Jackson's father beat him does not mean that that is what turned the guy into a monster. There are several other mitigating factors which you are excluding. Same goes for the naija situation, because there are "area boys" and "touts" does not mean that the flogging created them.

davidif:

Like i said earlier, this is a classic example of confusing correlation with causation. Because Michael Jackson's father beat him does not mean that that is what turned the guy into a monster. There are several other mitigating factors which you are excluding. Same goes for the naija situation, because there are "area boys" and "touts" does not mean that the flogging created them.

but aren't you arguing that the lack of the beatings are what's causing teen pregnancies and bad morals abroad??
point is there are bad morals everywhere.

i'm sure MJ's father's harsh and strict demands (just by saying it alone) on him did affect his self esteem somewhat. MJ professed this himself. but parents can be harsh anywhere whether abroad or in naija. just that they're harsher in naija on average.



I posted a lengthy message a while ago but the "spam bot" marked it so it doesn't show.

[Ding dong]

My post is disappearing after posting on this thread only.

Let me see if this one sticks.

tensor777:
Secondly the topic is not about corporal punishment but about the disciplinary system in Nigerian schools,which judging by general pupil behaviour is not very effective irrespective of the amount of flogging that goes on there.

I beg to disagree.

Nigerian school pupil behaviour would be one of the best in the world. What you can challenge is academic achievement, which other factors have a larger bearing on.

tensor777:
In fact some Nigerians have this daft belief that disciplining a child is all about flogging. No it is about leading by example and being consisistent in word and deed. The cane should only be used at the last resort when more reasonable methods have failed

I agree with you hear, there are development opportunities in our approach and my personal philosophy is more aligned to this you have stated. And even the flogging should be in moderation.

But if I was to chose second best between flogging being the leading discipline tool and no flogging at all but negotiate with the child being the disciplining tool, then no doubt I will go for the former.

oyinda.:

lol. the fear is that they will throw you out or you will be ostracized by family and society. I mean beating won't take the baby out of your tummy!! unless the plan is to abort it that way lol

You were definitely not raised in Nigeria.

The fear is that you will restrict your sexual activity (most restrict to Zero) so that there is less chance of you getting pregnant in the first place.

The fear of pregnacy and what your mother and father will do to you will paralyse you anytime you even attempt to have intercourse to the point you will not feel any pleasure from the sex.

oyinda.:

about societal implication, just as in naija, teen pregnancy is rarer in wealthier places than in poor places.
It happens in naija too!!! just doesn't appear in the news or in data.

Agreed.

Even though presence of pregnacy by class is correlated, I bet the rate of pregnancy in wealthier families in USA is multiple times higher than in wealthier families in Nigeria.

I also bet that will change in future, as there are a new breed of wealthy morons in Nigeria that think their profile is maximised by bringing up their kids like westerners, so I will expect them to get a western outcome in those kids.

oyinda.:

but i guess this sort of has to do with discipline. americans need to discipline their kids more about sex and drinking.
but what have you got to say about naija's area boys and touts? They are very rampant in the country. would you blame that on naija's school's disciplinary system?
oh and also armed robbers.

A vast majority of area boys and touts fall into the following groups:
1) From a large family where the illiterate parents can not feed all the mouth so they have to fend for themselves in a society without a formal welfare programme.
2) Orphans that have to fend for themselves in a society without a formal welfare programme.

Being area boys or touts have absolutely, absolutely, absolutely limited link to disciplinary system in schools.

It is mainly based on poverty and lack of care by government. If you give most of these guys a training opportunity that guarantees them a reliable and consistent income of at least N20,000 a month, you will virtually wipe out the industry.

Also, would you then say it is the lack of discipline in schools that led to the likes of Crips, 38th street, Longos and Bloods gangs in the US? Are these not multiple times worse than areaboys and touts?

Sweetheart, every society has wayward adult gangs that are a menace to society but very few have kiddy gangs like the UK.

For those that love alluding to cultism in Nigerian unis, I ask you which is worse:

Having a group of adults (19+) being a menace in uni as cult members when they are out of their parents control and most even dread their parents having a knowledge of their activities and have to bribe disorganised and corrupt authority.

OR

Having a group of kids (12-20) being a menace to their localhood where they shoot and 'shank' other kids as members of street/area code gangs when they are still in their parents control but do not give 2 fuucks about parents and a well-organised authority.

I know which I prefer, which one do you?

Sagamite:

[Ding dong]

My post is disappearing after posting on this thread only.

Let me see if this one sticks.

haha mine too and not just on this topic. I asked the mods and apparently it's caused by a spam bot admin installed  . I tell ya

oyinda.:

haha mine too and not just on this topic. I asked the mods and apparently it's caused by a spam bot admin installed . I tell ya

I will find a way of circumverting it.

I need to find out the way it works.

oyinda.:


but aren't you arguing that the lack of the beatings are what's causing teen pregnancies and bad morals abroad??
point is there are bad morals everywhere.

Yes that is my arguments.

Sure there are bad morals everywhere but not at prevalence levels we see at the adolescent age brackets of the West that does not believe in corporal discipline.

This failure is further emphasis by their superior education, resources and organised authority. And the morals we object to that are associated with this age bracket are suppressed in the corporal discipline world through the threat of corporal discipline hence their is a direct link between "lack of" and "immoral act".

Point: in our corporal punishment world, people generally tend to misbehave anyhow at adulthood. In the lack of corporal punishment world, they misbehave anyhow from pubescent as they are seen as untouchables.

oyinda.:

i'm sure MJ's father's harsh and strict demands (just by saying it alone) on him did affect his self esteem somewhat. MJ professed this himself. but parents can be harsh anywhere whether abroad or in naija. just that they're harsher in naija on average.

I will have to oppose as it is obvious MJ's father is rare and unique case.

It is obvious the man is mentally disturbed when you see that he was only interested in promoting his record company the day after his son died.

That is a mad man.

Futhermore, he raised 9 kids, only one went wayward and I will associate the waywardness not only to corporal discipline, but to:
1) Lack of a childhood
2) Lack of a normal life at any stage
3) Inappropraite corporal punishment ( the father wanted them to be the best so he can get money)
4) Personality of MJ (he was one of those kids that you need to smack rarely, talkless of smacking like a slave to do a job that destroyed him)

None of the other 8 children faced the first 2 points to the extent MJ did, hence they did OK even though they faced (3) and even (4).

So I don't see why you think only (3) was the one that destoyed MJ.