ok, so i've decided to ask the people here why they believe that there is a 'god'; what is the logic behind the thinking that there is a supreme being...

and why is it that you feel so strongly that:

a) there is only ONE supreme being (or at least one above all others)

b) that this supreme being is all loving- what evidence can we see, on an everyday level, that this is true

c) and all powerful- again what evidence is there in the world that this is true

d) and perfect- how would you support this claim

please remember this a question asking for logic (and not endless biblical quotes)...

i'm sure i'll enjoy reading your answers...

thanks for reading.

I read up to this point...

please remember this a question asking for logic

and I shook my head.

'Logic' and 'Faith in God' are two completely separate domains.

You don't arrive at a belief in God because you have done some experiments and performed some logical deductions... you just believe because!

Anyway, Exu - what exactly is your agenda? Why do you want to upset the faith of people who are obviously happy in their faith?

My question exactly.

who says i'm trying to upset people, i'm trying to understand what it is that makes people believe that there is a 'god' and only one 'god'....

logic/reasoning is behind everything we do: i've often seen people claim that they have proof that what they 'believe' is real; all i'm asking is that these people show their evidence...

why is it wrong to ask questions- how are people expected to learn/better themselves if they don't ask


p.s.
my agenda, as always, is to establish the truth...

logic/reasoning is behind everything we do

Exu, this is untrue. There are many, many occasions where we cannot explain the reason why we do things. Why might someone choose a red shirt over a blue shirt, for example?

i've often seen people claim that they have proof that what they 'believe' is real; all i'm asking is that these people show their evidence...

I suspect that what is really happening in these cases is that they believe first, then they seek 'proof' to justify their belief. But really, I don't see any problem in people simply stating upfront that they believe; it would save hours of argument trying to look for proof where it isn't necessary.

why is it wrong to ask questions- how are people expected to learn/better themselves if they don't ask

Nothing wrong... it's just that a remarkably high percentage of your questions have to do with similar issues.

@ ka: seeing as the brain is as the centre of everything we do your claim that logic is not all important is untrue...


also, at some point every religious sect has claimed to have proof, which has more often than not been proved to be (at best) questionable and at worst manufactured...

only when the creditability of these said 'proofs' have been destroyed have people fallen back on the old claim that 'religion is a question of faith' and not perceived reality...

for those of you struggling to understand my line of thinking, all i'm attempting to establish is why it is that some people claim to believe things that appear to be nonsense to others...

why is that what you believe is almost entirely dependent on where you're from or where you're family is from your position in society??
(sorry to go off topic)

p.s.
if i said that i 'believe' that the being you refer to as 'satan' is the creator of the world, without backing up my claim...

claiming that is the truth and everything else is a lie...how would that influence your way of thinking??

p.p.s.
i find it interesting that not one person has even attempted to answer one of the questions...

The brain is responsible for both logic and the capability for emotions.

The "Big-Bang" theory is a confirmation of the Scriptural evidence (Qur'anically, anyway) of the formation of the Universe! When the Creator simply says: "Be! And it is," which is "KUN FAYA KUN."

Tell the truth, @ Exu, you don't know what is going to happen tomorrow (even with all your Accu-weather forecasters and Tsunami calculators), so my brother, believe in the Power of the Unseen. At least, acknowledge the Existence of the Unseen -- if you care not to believe!

I believe in the possibility of the 'unseen'...

but anyone making claims to having the truth about our existence and failing to back up those claims with hard facts is senseless...

still no (attempted) answers...

but anyone making claims to having the truth about our existence and failing to back up those claims with hard facts is senseless...

If you admit that you're overwhelmed and astonished by the awe of our existence, I'll say you make sense. Pinch your self... hard!... harder!.... Did you feel the pain? If the answer is yes, you're alive! That means EXISTENCE! That makes more sense.

If you admit that you're overwhelmed and astonished by the awe of our existence, I'll say you make sense. Pinch your self... hard!... harder!.... Did you feel the pain? If the answer is yes, you're alive! That means EXISTENCE! That makes more sense

cute, and yet you still haven't answered any of the questions...

If your question is about our existence or the creation of the Universe, what specific answer are you looking for?

If your question is about the reality of God's existence, I have never seen Him before, but I believe in the Power of the Unseen. So, He exists; if you want me to prove it to you, I'll say, only, believe!

I can only help you with the first question!

the questions at the beginning...

the questions that everyone has side-stepped...

go on, be brave, make an attempt...

exu:

ok, so i've decided to ask the people here why they believe that there is a 'god'; what is the logic behind the thinking that there is a supreme being

Me i don't believe in any god,i believe in God...

Trying to prove the existence of God using logic is an endless waste of effort. But looking at circumstances surrounding us, one can easily tell that there's truely a GOD. We once had a prayer session in my church which was based on God showering the rains of blessings on us. Few minutes after we started, there was a heavy downpour. (I know someone will call that coincidence, I really don't care).

Trying to prove the existence of God using logic is an endless waste of effort. But looking at circumstances surrounding us, one can easily tell that there's truely a GOD.

contradict yourself much

using the evidence we see in the world was exactly what i was asking people to do...

this is one of my problems with religion, specifically christianity, the use of logic only when it suits said religion...

p.s.

We once had a prayer session in my church which was based on God showering the rains of blessings on us.

i bet this happened during the rainy season...some people 

@Exu, check out this Qur'anic ayat:

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece (/as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder (/then We parted them)? We made from water every living thing, Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

One united piece (like a rounded egg)?
Then We parted them ('Big-Bang" Theory)?
We made every living thing from water. What does your  elementary science tell you about the composition of the Universe? That more than 75% of it is covered by water, right?

Does that help? Or, do you need more evidences?

There was a person whose house got burnt. Every single thing in that house got burnt, including each rooms, except for the wardrobe in which he kept his BIBLE (the word of GOD). Now tell me, do u call that luck or magic??

First of all, it's not a big deal that the bible didn't get bunt. Many bible have hard covers unlike most books which do not. In addition, the bible may have been placed in a different part of the house than other books.

However, I am sure that you are exaggerating in this case. I am sure that there were other things which didn't get burnt like metals, ceramic cups, etc. Did you see the burnt house with your own eyes, or is it just another story?

A reliable person told me.

In addition, the bible may have been placed in a different part of the house than other books

He said it was stored inside a wardrobe; we all know there are fire-proof safes and wardrobes, right?

The Bible was kept in the wardrobe. Out of all wardrobes in each rooms, it was only the one in which the Bible was kept that didn't get burnt.

thank you aji, for bringing the islamic point of view into this debate...

however:

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece (/as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder (/then We parted them)? We made from water every living thing, Will they not then believe?

a man wrote this, right

how would he know what happened at creation he wasn't there...

also, what's this 'we' business; i thought there was only one God/Allah...

thank you aji, for bringing the islamic point of view into this debate...

however:

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece (/as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder (/then We parted them)? We made from water every living thing, Will they not then believe?

a human being wrote this, right

how would he know what happened at creation he wasn't there...

also, what's this 'we' business; i thought there was only one God/Allah...

No! That's the Yusuf Ali's translation of a Qur'anic ayat.

Concerning the pronoun "WE" in the Qur'an, it's only a manifestation of the Majesty of Allah; there's still only one God -- the All-knowing, the Eternal!

Since someone is quoting the Quran here, why can't we christians too quote the Bible?

goodguy:

Since someone is quoting the Quran here, why can't we christians too quote the Bible?

I think this quote was relevant, as Ajisafe was pointing at the fact that these verses in the Quran are consistent with established science. It is not sufficient though to logically prove the existence of God

I am not objecting to Ajisafe's post in anyway. I was directing my question to EXU who says we shouldn't quote endless Bible passages.

@ Goodguy, go ahead, bring your biblical quotations. @ Nferyn, you can also bring your own reasons why it is not logical to prove the existence of God. C'mon, bring it on!

Well, I really don't see the point quoting the Bible when some people don't believe in God. I guess I will still try to find more logical explanations to prove the existence of God. But where I find it necessary, I will quote Bible passages.

Ajisafe:

@ Goodguy, go ahead, bring your biblical quotations. @ Nferyn, you can also bring your own reasons why it is not logical to prove the existence of God. C'mon, bring it on!

I've never said it is not logical to prove the existence of God. I only have not seen anything remotely resembling proof.

I guess we'll talk more on it later. I'm stepping out right now, so take care, all.