What's up guys....been a while.

I'm an upcoming producer and I'm also delving into sound engineering.... Whilst the music production aspect of making music is almost 90% fun for me, I can't say same for the engineering aspect. Although most of the times I sha enjoy mixing a track.

The reason I'm starting this thread is for any producer/sound engineer who has useful tips concerning mixing and mastering a track, cos i just delved into mastering and to be honest, it hasn't been easy.

I watch tutorials online...yet for some reasons when I play my tracks back to back with another commercial track, I'm just not happy with the result.

I know the issues about the Loudness Wars....and I try to keep as much dynamics as I can keep in a track while trying to make my track compete at least to a certain db with all the radio/commercial released songs out there.

For the records my work station is a
3.5Ghz
8Gb Ram
1 TB Hdd
Windows 7 Machine

While the DAW I use includes

FL 12
Cubase (I barely use cubase tho, I tend to make all my tracks in FL, beats, vocals and all. I know some might say its unprofessional but that's what I'm comfortable with)

The vsti I use during mixing ranges from Ozone 5,6,7. Fabfilter. T Racks to Waves 9 Bundle.

Any useful tip would be appreciated. Thanks

@micheal13, d fabfilter & wave 9 u have got are dey d full bundle? ; where can i get them?

post any of your project... from there we will figure out what you need to learn more.

Post your mix process in a simple (brief explanation) form and perhaps your mastering effects...

beatsbyflakyray:
@micheal13, d fabfilter & wave 9 u have got are dey d full bundle? ; where can i get them?

Yes..they are

apholaryn:
post any of your project... from there we will figure out what you need to learn more.

Thanks ....I shld send a link by morn

overboard:
Post your mix process in a simple (brief explanation) form and perhaps your mastering effects...

Thanks

As for my mix...it all depends on the kind of track, but I usually start off with an EQ followed by a compressor depending on how large the dynamic range is. Then I conclude the mix with effects if needed (Reverb, Delay etc)

As for mastering chain I start off first with

1. EQ
I do some mid-side eqing

2. Multiband Compression
I try to control the dynamics of the desired frequency band

3. Stereeo Imaging
I make sure the low end is close to being mono while I spread highs and mids evenly

4. Limiting
This is were I boost the overall Loudness of the track

I'd sure send a link to a copy of my mix before morning
Thanks for your time

Michael13:

Thanks ....I shld send a link by morn

okies

Michael13:



Thanks

As for my mix...it all depends on the kind of track, but I usually start off with an EQ followed by a compressor depending on how large the dynamic range is. Then I conclude the mix with effects if needed (Reverb, Delay etc)

As for mastering chain I start off first with

1. EQ
I do some mid-side eqing

2. Multiband Compression
I try to control the dynamics of the desired frequency band

3. Stereeo Imaging
I make sure the low end is close to being mono while I spread highs and mids evenly

4. Limiting
This is were I boost the overall Loudness of the track

I'd sure send a link to a copy of my mix before morning
Thanks for your time

Then you've seem to have a lot under control... You process is standard with individual plugins or using a bundle. IMO, not many solo EQs come with mid-side capabilities tho'. It's more with mastering bundles.

I never had to use delay in my mastering process though but I know in rare cases, it might work well, perhaps a song that is simply guitar and vocal etc?

Please don't make apology for using FL (tho' I use it as well but don't do my final mixes within). It is a good tool all the same. I mean, who would go against an Avicii favourite?

Some questions:

* Do you print out your mix file (stereo mix) before attempting to master in a separate project or just tend to 'mix and master' at the same time?

* You know about the 'Loudness Wars' but let me ask, how much dB do you have as/for headroom and before mastering - if it is a separate process from your mix - do you feel your mixes sound good with nice spatial placement and sonic balance even before the mastering?

Cheers

overboard:


Some questions:

* Do you print out your mix file (stereo mix) before attempting to master in a separate project or just tend to 'mix and master' at the same time?

I always love to mix nd master my tracks within a single project.... It allows me to be flexible and I cld easily correct my mix during the mastering stage. However, most times I tend to bounce to 32bits wave when I experience latency issues.....this happens most times when I use the maximizer in Ozone with the IRCIII settings

overboard:

* You know about the 'Loudness Wars' but let me ask, how much dB do you have as/for headroom and before mastering - if it is a separate process from your mix - do you feel your mixes sound good with nice spatial placement and sonic balance even before the mastering?
Cheers

Sure I do leave a minimum of at least a -0.1db
But most times when I make an instrumental (especially free instrumentals in which I have no control over who tends to use it), I tend to leave a minimum of 1db to 3db. This is to give space for vocals to sit on it.

And I'm still trying to upload a reference mix. Glo and their crappy network.
Thanks

Michael13:


I always love to mix nd master my tracks within a single project.... It allows me to be flexible and I cld easily correct my mix during the mastering stage. However, most times I tend to bounce to 32bits wave when I experience latency issues.....this happens most times when I use the maximizer in Ozone with the IRCIII settings



Sure I do leave a minimum of at least a -0.1db
But most times when I make an instrumental (especially free instrumentals in which I have no control over who tends to use it), I tend to leave a minimum of 1db to 3db. This is to give space for vocals to sit on it.

And I'm still trying to upload a reference mix. Glo and their crappy network.
Thanks

Ah, that IRCIII setting especially for keeping the transients... heavy on the CPU.

Tho' head room isn't the all in all for a good mix/master, the -0.1dB is kinda low. To be critical, a -6dB allowance is recommended and that is for your whole mix with vocals on o. And not by sliding down the master fader. And that's before you master.

As DJ quik said: "Low is louder...". I agree to a good extent to that but these days, working with a true-to-tape DAW (Presonus Studio One), I don't even watch my master buss anymore! It is so damn solid with bleeds you don't get that digital harshness when your master buss tips over. Nonetheless, I always watch that my individual track are reasonably mild in dB. Just Blaze no even send his meters looking like a mass murder scene with all the reds but then again, these guys work a lot with solid state dynamics, hardware based.

Chances are you are already mastering before you achieve a final mix? I don't know but its seems so. This may cloud your mix judgement. Just saying. Highest I do in my mix process is slip a limiter into the master buss and that's rarely.

Post the track when you can.

overboard:


Ah, that IRCIII setting especially for keeping the transients... heavy on the CPU.

Tho' head room isn't the all in all for a good mix/master, the -0.1dB is kinda low. To be critical, a -6dB allowance is recommended and that is for your whole mix with vocals on o. And not by sliding down the master fader. And that's before you master.

As DJ quik said: "Low is louder...". I agree to a good extent to that but these days, working with a true-to-tape DAW (Presonus Studio One), I don't even watch my master buss anymore! It is so damn solid with bleeds you don't get that digital harshness when your master buss tips over. Nonetheless, I always watch that my individual track are reasonably mild in dB. Just Blaze no even send his meters looking like a mass murder scene with all the reds but then again, these guys work a lot with solid state dynamics, hardware based.

Chances are you are already mastering before you achieve a final mix? I don't know but its seems so. This may cloud your mix judgement. Just saying. Highest I do in my mix process is slip a limiter into the master buss and that's rarely.

Post the track when you can.

Thanks for this useful tip. Though during mixing I barely have any processing going on the master bus. Except when I'm applying a filter automation to the whole track, in which case I create a sub-group and then pass all the other bus to this sub-group and then route the sub-group to my master bus

apholaryn:
post any of your project... from there we will figure out what you need to learn more.

overboard:
Post your mix process in a simple (brief explanation) form and perhaps your mastering effects...

Here is a link to a mix i recently made
http://tindeck.com/listen/uzvvg

And here is the same mix after mastering
http://tindeck.com/listen/obtap

Thanks

Michael13:




Here is a link to a mix i recently made
http://tindeck.com/listen/uzvvg

And here is the same mix after mastering
http://tindeck.com/listen/obtap

Thanks

At this juncture, I need to ask what you perceive as the problem with this mix/master for instance.

I'm using a less than ideal set of speakers to monitor right now so I can't be 100% accurate but taking into cognizance the kind of tones used i.e. it is sub-heavy, I think it sounds OK. Perhaps a little more upfront vocals - very little - or even some instrumental or every-bar-hit sub/kick side chain (I noticed a little frequency clash with vocals) and maybe a little overall sheen (perhaps mid-side level) may do well.

Often times, mixes are a result of the vision of the producer so I can't use the everyday kick-snare-bass-synths... logic to really judge this but it's not bad in itself.

It could be better, especially the vocals which sound too thinnned out with a little 8kHz-ish over-sizzle but that could easily be a result of mic or interface quality and it is more likely not going through a pre-amp (which is the Naija standard). Let me know your hardware.

I'm hearing a low end thud at every bar hit as I mentioned but this is at high volumes and it could be because of the crappy speakers where I'm at tho'. If it a true distortion (at lower monitoring on better systems), it may be as a result of sub overload in which case you may need to cut a few dB at about 60Hz or so for one or two instruments (and compensate with a high boost) to allow the thud to sit well.

Shed more light if you can.

Michael13:



Here is a link to a mix i recently made http://tindeck.com/listen/uzvvg
And here is the same mix after mastering http://tindeck.com/listen/obtap
Thanks

will check now

overboard:


At this juncture, I need to ask what you perceive as the problem with this mix/master for instance.

I'm using a less than ideal set of speakers to monitor right now so I can't be 100% accurate but taking into cognizance the kind of tones used i.e. it is sub-heavy, I think it sounds OK. Perhaps a little more upfront vocals - very little - or even some instrumental or every-bar-hit sub/kick side chain (I noticed a little frequency clash with vocals) and maybe a little overall sheen (perhaps mid-side level) may do well.

Often times, mixes are a result of the vision of the producer so I can't use the everyday kick-snare-bass-synths... logic to really judge this but it's not bad in itself.

It could be better, especially the vocals which sound too thinnned out with a little 8kHz-ish over-sizzle but that could easily be a result of mic or interface quality and it is more likely not going through a pre-amp (which is the Naija standard). Let me know your hardware.

I'm hearing a low end thud at every bar hit as I mentioned but this is at high volumes and it could be because of the crappy speakers where I'm at tho'. If it a true distortion (at lower monitoring on better systems), it may be as a result of sub overload in which case you may need to cut a few dB at about 60Hz or so for one or two instruments (and compensate with a high boost) to allow the thud to sit well.

Shed more light if you can.

Firstly, The main problem I have with the track is perceived loudness, especially when I play the track back to back with other commercial songs. When I played the track on a friend's sound system and then played Yung6's Example track, i noticed that my track wasn't loud enough.

Also, my friend said the vocal is quite low and thinned out, just like you pointed out.

I use a RODE NT2-A Microphone and yeah it doesn't go through a pre-amp but I pass my signal from the mic to a dbx Compressor to maintain a fairly constant volume and pass the signal to my Focusrite Soundcard which then feeds into the computer.

Also I have a hard time controlling or monitoring my sub bass, so I rely heavily on a spectrum analyzer to see whats happening down there, though I use a Yamaha H-7 Monitors, but to be honest I feel deceived with the low signal on these monitors, so most times I tend to over compensate the bass and sub-bass.

I would like to ask, If you feel the track is loud enough or if it needs more volume boost (limiting).
Thanks for your time

apholaryn:
will check now

Thanks, awaiting your feedback

Also, what do you mean when you said

overboard:

a true-to-tape DAW (Presonus Studio One),

Michael13:


Firstly, The main problem I have with the track is perceived loudness, especially when I play the track back to back with other commercial songs. When I played the track on a friend's sound system and then played Yung6's Example track, i noticed that my track wasn't loud enough.

Also, my friend said the vocal is quite low and thinned out, just like you pointed out.

I use a RODE NT2-A Microphone and yeah it doesn't go through a pre-amp but I pass my signal from the mic to a dbx Compressor to maintain a fairly constant volume and pass the signal to my Focusrite Soundcard which then feeds into the computer.

Also I have a hard time controlling or monitoring my sub bass, so I rely heavily on a spectrum analyzer to see whats happening down there, though I use a Yamaha H-7 Monitors, but to be honest I feel deceived with the low signal on these monitors, so most times I tend to over compensate the bass and sub-bass.

I would like to ask, If you feel the track is loud enough or if it needs more volume boost (limiting).
Thanks for your time

OK. Yungsix' "For Example" for example, is a little more compressed so the quieter regions are a bit more to the fore; I perceive more stereo widening of the mids, perhaps a little in the low section but it still retains the mono punch and more limiting. This is as far as I can tell. Your mix can be IMO worked to such end.

Ha, ha, my guy is doing DIY pre-amp-ing . Not bad but watch it as pre-amps are expensive for a good reason. Those tubes and D-A converters are no joke and chances are you are ruining a clean voice signal with the Dbx Compressor. I really don't know but if the signal after your chain is good and clean, then you might have to work on your vocal mixes more. If the cut outs are as a result of in the chain settings or just the chain itself, please revert to straight-to-the-soundcard method. Rode NT 2A is a fine mic bro and Focusrite anything are good enough.

One thing I notice a lot with Naija mix engineers (especially the up comers) is that they tend to cut absolutely all sense of mids in vocals in a bid to dumb down the lows in vocals. Nice try but many a times it needs to be re-checked so that the proper presence of the vocals are not cleared out in the pursuit of a free high and low mids for other things. Your vocals sounding low (hmmm, maybe) could simply be as a result of the missing ooomph in the vocals.

True-to-tape? I used the term to depict tape recordings i.e. analog, where the threshold for over 0dB signals is waaaay higher - and it retains its sonic integrity - than digital in-the-box systems. Studio One is that, IMO.

overboard:


OK. Yungsix' "For Example" for example, is a little more compressed so the quieter regions are a bit more to the fore; I perceive more stereo widening of the mids, perhaps a little in the low section but it still retains the mono punch and more limiting. This is as far as I can tell. Your mix can be IMO worked to such end.

Ha, ha, my guy is doing DIY pre-amp-ing . Not bad but watch it as pre-amps are expensive for a good reason. Those tubes and D-A converters are no joke and chances are you are ruining a clean voice signal with the Dbx Compressor. I really don't know but if the signal after your chain is good and clean, then you might have to work on your vocal mixes more. If the cut outs are as a result of in the chain settings or just the chain itself, please revert to straight-to-the-soundcard method. Rode NT 2A is a fine mic bro and Focusrite anything are good enough.

One thing I notice a lot with Naija mix engineers (especially the up comers) is that they tend to cut absolutely all sense of mids in vocals in a bid to dumb down the lows in vocals. Nice try but many a times it needs to be re-checked so that the proper presence of the vocals are not cleared out in the pursuit of a free high and low mids for other things. Your vocals sounding low (hmmm, maybe) could simply be as a result of the missing ooomph in the vocals.

True-to-tape? I used the term to depict tape recordings i.e. analog, where the threshold for over 0dB signals is waaaay higher - and it retains its sonic integrity - than digital in-the-box systems. Studio One is that, IMO.

Alright, I'd start by testing a dry signal by removing the Dbx Compressor, maybe compare it later...and I'l also keep in mind that I cut out too much sensitive frequencies from the vocals and focus more on clashing frequencies.

Thanks for your time.

Michael13:


Alright, I'd start by testing a dry signal by removing the Dbx Compressor, maybe compare it later...and I'l also keep in mind that I cut out too much sensitive frequencies from the vocals and focus more on clashing frequencies.

Thanks for your time.

Pleasure, anytime. If there anything else, let us know

overboard:


Pleasure, anytime. If there anything else, let us know

@micheal13, if u wan to get big master, using fl only is tough work especially on master bus channel. vocals going in is too weak n lack mic headroom cuz no mic preamp on ur a-d converter vocal chain. ur master bus lack meats no tape saturation/ emulation plugin, no master bus compression to glue d entire mix a bit. no mixing enhancing tricks like vocal doubling n panning left n right. vocal parallel compression tricks and d bass n sub aint tame n controlled it has frequencies clashing with other instruments in the track. the overall mix causes some artefacts that is eating up d headroom of the mix even too much reverb plugins on a track eats up ur headroom. thats y studios with high-end d-a converter crank up d limiter to maximize loudness without losing d dynamics of d track thus masking dz artefacts. u should have been boosting n doing minor cutting in ur case. n lastly u over ran out of headroom for mastering. what at -0.1db on master channel is close to clipping n disturtion. during mixing all effort shld av been to save alot headroom at -6db. some engineer alrdy have loud mixes with still enough headroom at -6db that shuld be the main goal. solutions-use mic preamp vst plugins like anstress (free) to bring up your mic level signal with extra headroom. when u cut any wav. stem make sure u clean it up b4 eqing. or etc. use t-rack soft clipper b4 d limiter plugin to cut off dz artefacts so as to max loudness. add some meats n it is best working with a stereo mix stem for mastering, tame ur bass with its frequency jumping over d stereo field clashing other elements with multi-band compressor plugin along with ur harsh vocals on d high end. eq b4 compressor to tighten tins and keep them in check n in their own stereo field n if u eq after compressor it let tins out n run loose n if it a hard compressor it brings artefacts outs sometimes choice of plugins used matter alot i can go on and on but lets leave it dz way.

[quote author=beatsbyflakyray post=43709353] @micheal13, if u wan to get bog master quote]

Thanks for your tips....pls what does the Antares vsti tube do to a mic signal?

[quote author=Michael13 post=43720317][/quote]

It's like a warmth, saturation, distortion module. Its a good tool to revove that digital clean edge...

But if he is talking about the Mic Modeler, it is a supposed mic character emulation VST. IMO, it just a bunch of EQ settings that don't do much. It's discontinued.

overboard:


It's like a warmth, saturation, distortion module. Its a good tool to revove that digital clean edge...

But if he is talking about the Mic Modeler, it is a supposed mic character emulation VST. IMO, it just a bunch of EQ settings that don't do much. It's discontinued.

I just tested the tube vst....I noticed a fullness in the vocals....I might go for the tube

overboard:


It's like a warmth, saturation, distortion module. Its a good tool to revove that digital clean edge...

But if he is talking about the Mic Modeler, it is a supposed mic character emulation VST. IMO, it just a bunch of EQ settings that don't do much. It's discontinued.

@overboard, u dey use yamaha h7, hmm that one no be poor man monitor ooh, but if i go fit get any uk used one so i go fit upgrade pass d chinkuli level wey i dey soo. hm go be xmas for me. hw far, i sent u my number via email i no con see u on whatapp? abi u tink say i go disturb u for another plugins ney?lol