United States of America, cheated, blockaded and essentially crippled Haiti till today. Now it seems that within a certain context, Isreal is basically doing the same thing all over again to the people of Gaza.

First and foremost please understand the following:

1. I believe in the bible
2. I support the Ancient Isrealites.
3. I believe the current Europeans masquerading and calling themselves isrealites are not even descendants of the real isrealites, most reports show them to be nothing more than European people who practise Judaism, hence they really do not have a right to the land of isreal, since their fore fathers were never promised the land and never occupied the land as real ancient isrealites.
4. I hate islam with a passion (since Allah and Mohammed [/b]are just plain lairs and sex perverts) hence i do not support any terrorist group or activity be it Hamas or Hisballah or watever.
5. Nevertheless because i hate islam does not mean i would support injustice against the people of Gaza.
6. The bible already prophesised that in the last days, some people who are not actually Jews would be claiming to be jews (e.g. the european people are currently claiming to be jews) and that those people are the synagogue of satan (most of the most despicable things in the world are traceable one way or another to the europeans who call themselves jews even the so called united states is being controlled by them)

[b]EDIT

Problem:
-----------
My problem with the State of Isreal is that:
- They are falsely claiming to be Isrealites
- They are discriminating against people that actually have a real historical connection to the land.
- They are stealing controlling the area containing $4Billion worth of natural gas off the coast of Gaza, have been known to seek dealings with British Gas at the same time that they are basically blockading, killing the Gazans and preventing access to the area containing the Gas deposit (even though the Gas Deposit actually belongs to the Palestinians of which the people of Gaza are one). Hence it is basically unknown right now whether or not they have already stolen, are in the process of stealing or are about to steal part of gas reserve considering that the have restricted access to the area containing the gas deposit.

I guess the real isrealites are No2Atheism and his family!
Go claim your land from the european impersonators.

Jatador:

I guess the real isrealites are No2Atheism and his family!
Go claim your land from the european impersonators.

@Jatador

I never claimed to have any claim to the land (hence save ur sarcastic demeanour for ur friends), however that does not mean i should stop to speak the truth even if speaking the truth untimately results in the protection of islamic terrorists (Hamas in this case), considering that even the Bible instructs true believers to be fair to all even those that seek to kill us. This kind of example was clearly shown by the Messiah when he proceeded to heal the ear of the soldier who hard come to arrest Him at the Garden of Gestemane after Peter had cut off the ear of that soldier.

Are personal insults really necessary, to convey ur points or is it a lack of positive contribution that warrants such diatribe. It is also fascinating to see that you have only 19 posts yet u already seek to make enemies on nairaland (how fascinating to witness such a state of mind). Or alternatively are u a frequent poster who is only going under a new monicker.

Its good to offer something constructive hence  learn to hear twice and speak once. So unless u have a vested interest in the State of Isreal, i suggest u offer something constructive other than personal insults.

Those on this forum know that i am not afraid to go against popular opinions simply because i prefer to base my statement of facts simply on what the bible says while at the same time crosschecking with what history tells us and what is really happening.

A simple way that you can learn to be constructive is going line by line through my post and point out what u think is wrong or false so that everybody including me can get to learn from ur infinit pot of wisdom.

My training as a researcher has brought me to the point of focusing more on the facts and not the news.

The facts say that those europeans who call themselves Jews are not even biologically connected to the Ancient Isrealites, hence they have no claim on the land on which they live (almost the same thing as if a Nigerian Hindu going back to India to claim the land in India. . .yep the same way that that would be ridiculous is also the same way it is ridiculous for people who are Jews by religion to claim a right to the Land of Isreal). Hence the situation is that not only is it ridiculous for them to claim a right to the land, it is also criminal for them to be stealing resources that belong to the people of Gaza (same way that is criminal for the whole of nigeria to be stealing resources that belong to the people of the Niger Delta).

So @Jatador, do urself a favour, go back to library and come back with a more meaningful response.

No2Atheism:


I hate islam with a passion (since Mohammed are just plain lairs and sex perverts) hence i do not support any terrorist group or activity.
[/i])

no doubt, Mus.ilims are really what you think.

Where is the proof of the 'stealing' of $4b worth of gas?

multiple post

debosky:

Where is the proof of the 'stealing' of $4b worth of gas?

Do your own research and make your own conclusions from some of the following links that i believe should give you an insight to this issue Gaza Natural Gas:

http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=3248

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2009/0108-Offshore.html

http://www.epalestine.com/PalestineEnergy.pdf

http://www.oilandgasinvestingglossary.com/palestines_natural_gas_troubles.asp

http://www.enerlix.com/environmental-technology/article_3122.htm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11680

http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/cynthia-mckinney-the-israeli-navy-and-4-billion-worth-of-natural-gas-off-gaza/

http://freegaza.org/en/links-a-gaza-info/stealing-gazas-gas

[url]http://dailycensored.com/2009/07/12/aboard-the-%E2%80%98spirit-of-humanity%E2%80%99/[/url]

http://www.ensec.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=178:energy-security-challenges-for-israel-following-the-gaza-war&catid=92:issuecontent&Itemid=341

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/BvjksCY-g0w[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/IutfTigG4tI[/flash]

@ No2A your post has been tagged, but I have reported on your behalf

There has been no 'stealing' involved, the gas reserves remain unexploited.

Without a doubt, the Palestinians will require some 'route to market' which will involve Israel at some point or the other.

It's very easy to make claims, but it isn't not quite accurate.

debosky:

@ No2A your post has been tagged, but I have reported on your behalf

There has been no 'stealing' involved, the gas reserves remain unexploited.

Without a doubt, the Palestinians will require some 'route to market' which will involve Israel at some point or the other.

It's very easy to make claims, but it isn't not quite accurate.

@debosky

first and foremost, okay thanks for removing the spamming bot (that spams) teeth from my post.

editing has been done here, thank you.

2. Why does Isreal have to be involved in what belongs to Gaza, does Isreal take permission from other states before exploiting their own natural resource, please @debo u and i both know that your statement is less than adequate and even quite insulting to the people of Gaza. Its that same as saying Niger Delta people need to take permission from Nigeria before being able to exploit their own land (funny enough that you are actually supporting Niger Delta hence why the shift in policy this time around when it concerns the state of isreal and the people of Gaza).

3. Yes i know Hamas is an islamic terrorist organisation, nevertheless, two wrongs do not make a right, this much was shown as an example by the Messiah Himself.

4. The additional point still stands in that the people who call themselves isrealites are not even descendants of the ancient isrealites, hence not only are they stealing from the people of Gaza by claiming to be Jews, they are also stealing from the land of isreal in that they living and benefitting from a land and property that does not even belong to them in the first place.

5. Hence please did is not just a claim, do ur own research from the links and videos provided instead of claiming that i am peddling a false information.

No2Atheism where is your evidence to prove the present day isrealites are impersonators??
Have you got the geneology of every isreali to know they're not original jews??
From where did you get this baseless claim??

Tudór:

No2Atheism where is your evidence to prove the present day isrealites are impersonators??
Have you got the geneology of every isreali to know they're not original jews??
From where did you get this baseless claim??

It is not baseless if u choose to at least try to increase your knowledge of history and events and stop being dogmatic in your ways.

ANSWER

From the Bible:
-------------------
1 - The bible (Paul who was a real person in real history was confirmed to be non-white and essentially black because he was mistaken by the white people (roman city) for an African i.e. an Egyptian, also logic tells us that Egyptians where yet to be invaded by the Arabs and thus were essentially people that we would call black people today by the way the present day Egyptians are most invaders and Arabs who themselves are not black)

2. - The Creator Himself told us the Ancient Isrealites were black (chk your bible for where the Creator used the Ethiopians (who are black) to describe the Isrealites to us).

3. The bible tells us that Cush, Mizraim (Egypt) descended from the same Black Father (Ham) hence biblical history shows us that Egyptians were black.


From a Present Day Jew Himself
----------------------------------------
Arthur Kestler shows us in the book[b] The Thirteenth tribe[/b] that most of the present day people who call themselves jews are actually Khazarians (please note that i have already recommended the same book to your on another thread, so please try and get it and go through it this time aroundso that you would at least increase your knowledge and stop asking the same annoying questions over and over again .)

No2Atheism:

It is not baseless if u choose to at least try to increase your knowledge of history and events and stop being dogmatic in your ways.

ANSWER

From the Bible:
-------------------
1 - The bible (Paul who was a real person in real history was confirmed to be non-white and essentially black because he was mistaken by the white people (roman city) for an African i.e. an Egyptian, also logic tells us that Egyptians where yet to be invaded by the Arabs and thus were essentially people that we would call black people today by the way the present day Egyptians are most invaders and Arabs who themselves are not black)

From one baseless claim to another!
What evidence have you got to prove ancient eygyptians where black??
They might have darker or a much tanned skin than the roman but they definately weren't NEGRO neither was paul. It could be argued he just had a darker skin much like the tanned look of some arabs therefore he was mistaken for an egyptian.

2. - The Creator Himself told us the Ancient Isrealites were black (chk your bible for where the Creator used the Ethiopians (who are black) to describe the Isrealites to us).

3. The bible tells us that Cush, Mizraim (Egypt) descended from the same Black Father (Ham) hence biblical history shows us that Egyptians were black.

[/quote]
The creator told you this, the bible shows that. . .this is by no means a reliable base for your claims??
BTW out of the 3 sons of noah who is the father of the mongols??
Have you seen a mongol from china, japan, north korea and compare them with the ones from cambodia, vietnam and burma??
The latter group are much darker than the former, does it mean they're black??
That they supposedly descended from the same father does it mean they must have the same skin colour??

jeez!

From a Present Day Jew Himself
----------------------------------------
Arthur Kestler shows us in the book[b] The Thirteenth tribe[/b] that most of the present day people who call themselves jews are actually Khazarians (please note that i have already recommended the same book to your on another thread, so please try and get it and go through it this time aroundso that you would at least increase your knowledge and stop asking the same annoying questions over and over again .)

Who the hell is this  Arthur kesler guy??
People can write books relating something to nothing so ridiculously that gullible people are bound to take it as actual fact.
Go ask those igbo scholars who believe the igbo tribe are descended from the Jews. . .they too supposedly have extensively researched and have "evidence".

Why is everyone just claiming to be the real jews?? Is it because of the fairy tale promises made by the phantom jehovah??
I wouldn't be suprised if tommorow chinese people claim to be the real isrealites and jesus spoke mandarin.[quote]

And how is any of this religious? did the word politics escape you?

Tudór:

From one baseless claim to another!
What evidence have you got to prove ancient eygyptians where black??
They might have darker or a much tanned skin than the roman but they definately weren't NEGRO neither was paul. It could be argued he just had a darker skin much like the tanned look of some arabs therefore he was mistaken for an egyptian.
Who the hell is this  Arthur kesler guy??
People can write books relating something to nothing so ridiculously that gullible people are bound to take it as actual fact.
Go ask those igbo scholars who believe the igbo tribe are descended from the Jews. . .they too supposedly have extensively researched and have "evidence".

Why is everyone just claiming to be the real jews?? Is it because of the fairy tale promises made by the phantom jehovah??
I wouldn't be suprised if tommorow chinese people claim to be the real isrealites and jesus spoke mandarin.

This is where ur rants are starting to get ridiculous:

1. Romans knew what the egyptians looked like, cause they also conquered them. Stop trying to play off ignorance as intelligence. Romans knew wat the Britons were, they knew what the barbarians were and they also knew wat the Egyptians were.

2. Romans themselves could have been tanned (they were not as pasty white as the barbarians aka. scandanavians and united kingdom people whom they also colonised at one point), hence your theory about tanning is quite ridiculous to say the least if one considers that the region of the roman capital was in a region more or less mediterenian in context. Even present day Italians are naturally tanned compared to the Irish or Brits or Scandanavians, hence showing just how ridiculous your tanning theory sounds.

3. Your diatribe all stems from the fact that you an atheist and thus u do not believe in the bible which is understandle hence why i provided you with a publication independent of the bible.

4. Historians do not deny the fact that Ham is the father of  people of cush, nubia, ethiopia, mizraim (Egypt), hence your sense of logic is quite appalling if u are trying to compare amount of melanin in the skin with the actually biological ancestry or biological origin of the person or people in question. I am not discussing melanin skin content with you, i am discussing biological ancestry with you and how it relates to the issue that those who claim to be jews but are not, are actually stealing resources of people of Gaza. Confusion is sure really a bitch cus it seems still can't separate your atheistic tendencies from an urge to protect the state of isreal at all cost.

5. You are obviously not a student of history otherwise you would have known that black people also migrated to asia and mixed with the races in asia hence the reason why you have people in asia who have both asian and black features (a present day example of this kind of person is Tiger Woods).

6. And finally Yes Arthur Kestler is a Jew who was bold enough the officially reveal the secret that the European Jews have been keeping as regards their origins and why they do not have a claim to the Land of Isreal.

7. You obviously do not have any sense of right or wrong othewise your atheist tendecies would tell you that it is wrong for people to claim what does not belong to them, unless off course u are also someone who seeks and hopes to benefit from ill gotten wealth or resources.

8. If u are so concerned as an atheist why are u so bothered that the people you think are Jews are not actually Jews, at least from your principle of evolution you all descended from Apes, hence it should make no difference to you whether or not you are Jews or whether or not White people call you monkey for being black.

9. Learn to hear twice and speak once, you expose your level of intellect the more u continue to speak and oppose everything without actually offering and academic and researched rebutall.

10. Yes i agree that there are those who are not jews but who claim to be so, hence i am not here defending them, simply because i have no proof. However the one i have proof is that fact that Europeans are not Jews they are descended from Japheth, infact the Khazarians who call themselves Jews have more in common with the Turks than most europeans. Because everybody is claiming to be jews does not mean the truth should be covered up out of fear of over exposure. The truth still remains that European Jews have no biological or historical connection to the Ancient Isrealites of the bible.

11. The issue of who the real isrealites are is an important topic, because the identity issue has been used to brainwash Africans and almost all black people into thinking they are inferior to anyone white.

12. Hence setting the record straight is an avenue to combat racism.

13. I am not discussion the issue of being jews as in regards to being a jew by religion, no one can be a jew by religion it is by blood as a descendant of the Tribe of Judah which itself is just one of the 12 original tribes of the children of Isreal. Hence common sense tells every reader that in as much as being a Buddist does not make me Chinese, likewise being a judaism faith person does not make anyone a Jew.

14. Go ahead and read the book as advised and stop creating Straw Man arguments of trying to imply that everything is a conspiracy theory by trying to link what the Thirtheenth Tribe book ssaid to what other Judaism faith based Jews say.

----------------------------------------------------

Please offer your contribution to the main topic at hand and stop derailing the thread with your eagerness to show ur inappropriate of proper historical and biblical understanding.

---------------------------------------------------

STOP YOUR RIDICULOUS EXTENSION OF UNRELATED ARGUMENTS.

No2Atheism:

This is where ur rants are starting to get ridiculous:
1. Roman know what the egyptians looked like, cause they also conquered them stop trying to play ignorance off as intelligence. Romans knew wat the Britons were, they knew what the barbarians were and they also knew was the Egyptians were.
2. Romans themselves could have been tanned (they were not as pasty white as the barbarians aka. scandanavians and united kingdom people whom they also more colonised), hence you theory about tanning is quite ridiculous to say the least if one considers that the region roman capital was in a region more or less mediterrenian in context. Even present day Italians are naturally tanned compared to the Irish or Brits or Scandanavians, hence showing just how ridiculous your tanning theory sounds.

You admitted youself the romans "could" be tanned. . .what if they're not??
Your entire theory is based mainly on the claim the romans referred to paul as egyptian. I'm trying to tell you he could have been mistaken for an egyptian maybe he had a tan. Never did i claim the entire tribe of isreal where tanned

3. Your diatribe all stems from the fact that you an atheist and thus u do not believe in the bible which is understandle hence why i provided you with a publication independent of the bible.

The so called independent publication WHERE ARE THE REVIES OF THE BOOK BY NOTABLE HISTORIANS??
Is the book is widely accepted by majority of historians?? Clear answer NO!
You can't just bring the private ramblings of an author and present it as fact without reliable peer review

4. Historians do not deny the fact that Ham is the father of cush, nubia, ethiopia.

Which historians??
Bible historians or what??
The bible is not a reliable source for the origin of races. Moses made up the noah and his sons story!

5. You are obviously not a student of history otherwise you would have known that black people also migrated to asia and mixed with the races in asia hence the reason why you have people in asia who have both asian and black features (a present day example of this kind of person is Tiger Woods).

You're obviously not a student of history coz you would have known the ancient isrealites were scattered over europe and inter married with the europeans hence you have european looking jews like we have today.

6. And finally Yes Arthur Kestler is a Jew who was bold enough the officially reveal the secret that the European Jews have been keeping as regards their origins and why they do not have a claim to the Land of Isreal.

baseless conspiracy theories!

7. You obviously do not have any sense of right or wrong othewise your atheist tendecies would tell you that it is wrong for people to claim what does not belong to them, unless off course u are also someone who seeks and hopes to benefit from ill gotten wealth or resources.

You're the only one with wisdom to determine who's the rightful owner, abi?

8. If u are so concerned as an atheist why are u so bothered that the people you think are Jews are not actually Jews, at least from your principle of evolution you all descended from Apes, hence it should make no difference to you whether or not you are Jews or whether or not White people call you monkey for being black.

It makes no difference to me, don't care who owns the tribe. You keep bringing up the issue with your so called prophecies and sh*t.

9. Learn to hear twice and speak once, you expose your level of intellect the more u continue to speak and oppose everything without actually offering and academic and researched rebutall.

Which have you provided?? Apart from unreliable scriptures and an unverified book.

10. Yes i agree that there are those who are not jews but who claim to be so, hence i am not here defending them, simply because[b] i have no proof. However the one i have proof [/b]is that fact that Europeans are not Jews they are descended from Japheth, infact the Khazarians who call themselves Jews have more in common with the Turks than most europeans. Because everybody is claiming to be jews does not mean the truth should be covered up out of fear of over exposure. The truth still remains that European Jews have no biological or historical connection to the Ancient Isrealites of the bible.

You've not given proof rather you speculated
based on unreliable accounts of mans origin by the bible

11. The issue of who the real isrealites are is an important topic, because the identity issue has been used to brainwash Africans and almost all black people into thinking they are inferior to anyone white.
12. Hence setting the record straight is an avenue to combat racism.
13. I am not discussion the issue of being jews as in regards to being a jew by religion, no one can be a jew by religion it is by blood as a descendant of the Tribe of Judah which itself is just one of the 12 original tribes of the children of Isreal. Hence common sense tells every reader that in as much as being a Buddist does not make me Chinese, likewise being a judaism faith person does not make anyone a Jew.

it's not a must that jesus must be non white. If you're so against imperialism you should have stuck with your local amadioha or ifa because JESUS WAS WHITE! Whether you like it or not.

pls cleane up ur post to allow for proper referencing during reply (Edit: Good to see that u have done that).

An d by the way i do not intend to be going round and round in circles, cus the tanning of the romans is not the issue here, i just used it as an example to show how ridiculous the basis of your tanning argument really sounds.

Paul being called an Egyptian is not the only basis of my argument, the other basis is given below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is not baseless if u choose to at least try to increase your knowledge of history and events and stop being dogmatic in your ways.

ANSWER

From the Bible:
-------------------
1 - The bible (Paul who was a real person in real history was confirmed to be non-white and essentially black because he was mistaken by the white people (roman city) for an African i.e. an Egyptian, also logic tells us that Egyptians where yet to be invaded by the Arabs and thus were essentially people that we would call black people today by the way the present day Egyptians are most invaders and Arabs who themselves are not black)

2. - The Creator Himself told us the Ancient Isrealites were black (chk your bible for where the Creator used the Ethiopians (who are black) to describe the Isrealites to us).

3. The bible tells us that Cush, Mizraim (Egypt) descended from the same Black Father (Ham) hence biblical history shows us that Egyptians were black.


From a Present Day Jew Himself
----------------------------------------
Arthur Kestler [b]who himself was a present day Jew, [/b] shows us in the book[b] The Thirteenth tribe[/b]  that most of the present day people who call themselves jews are actually Khazarians (please note that i have already recommended the same book to your on another thread, so please try and get it and go through it this time aroundso that you would at least increase your knowledge and stop asking the same annoying questions over and over again .)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Moreover i remember that i have ironed out this issue of the real isrealites with you on another thread not so long time ago, however if i can remember well u more or less just waved it away with the hand instead of facing up to the historical and biblical implications of my defense them. Hence i would not waste my time discussion the issue with u again, since it seems ur r dogmatic and not really versed enough to offer proper rebuttals otherwise we would just be going round and round in circles with nothing achieved.

---------------------------------------------------------------

So can u please focus on the thread and offer a constructive response to the topic of the thread instead of redirecting the thread on an unrelated tangent.

No2Atheism:

pls cleane up ur post to allow for proper referencing during reply (Edit: Good to see that u have done that).

An d by the way i do not intend to be going round and round in circles, cus the tanning of the romans is not the issue here, i just used it as an example to show how ridiculous the basis of your tanning argument really sounds.

Paul being called an Egyptian is not the only basis of my argument, the other basis is given below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is not baseless if u choose to at least try to increase your knowledge of history and events and stop being dogmatic in your ways.

ANSWER

From the Bible:
-------------------
1 - The bible (Paul who was a real person in real history was confirmed to be non-white and essentially black because he was mistaken by the white people (roman city) for an African i.e. an Egyptian, also logic tells us that Egyptians where yet to be invaded by the Arabs and thus were essentially people that we would call black people today by the way the present day Egyptians are most invaders and Arabs who themselves are not black)

2. - The Creator Himself told us the Ancient Isrealites were black (chk your bible for where the Creator used the Ethiopians (who are black) to describe the Isrealites to us).

3. The bible tells us that Cush, Mizraim (Egypt) descended from the same Black Father (Ham) hence biblical history shows us that Egyptians were black.


From a Present Day Jew Himself
----------------------------------------
Arthur Kestler [b]who himself was a present day Jew, [/b] shows us in the book[b] The Thirteenth tribe[/b]  that most of the present day people who call themselves jews are actually Khazarians (please note that i have already recommended the same book to your on another thread, so please try and get it and go through it this time aroundso that you would at least increase your knowledge and stop asking the same annoying questions over and over again .)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Moreover i remember that i have ironed out this issue of the real isrealites with you on another thread not so long time ago, however if i can remember well u more or less just waved it away with the hand instead of facing up to the historical and biblical implications of my defense them. Hence i would not waste my time discussion the issue with u again, since it seems ur r dogmatic and not really versed enough to offer proper rebuttals otherwise we would just be going round and round in circles with nothing achieved.

---------------------------------------------------------------

So can u please focus on the thread and offer a constructive response to the topic of the thread instead of redirecting the thread on an unrelated tangent.

All you're presenting is the bible which has been shown to be sometimes inaccurate and the words of[b] "the creator" [/b]- do you think we're imbeciles??
Not to forget an unreviewed and unaccepted book written by some self appointed historian.
Bring better reliable stuffs to back up your claim than the fake words of "the creator".

Tudór:

You admitted youself the romans "could" be tanned. . .what if they're not??
Your entire theory is based mainly on the claim the romans referred to paul as egyptian. I'm trying to tell you he could have been mistaken for an egyptian maybe he had a tan. Never did i claim the entire tribe of isreal where tanned
The so called independent publication[b] WHERE ARE THE REVIES OF THE BOOK BY NOTABLE HISTORIANS??[/b]
Is the book is widely accepted by majority of historians?? Clear answer NO!
You can't just bring the private ramblings of an author and present it as fact without reliable peer review Which historians??
Bible historians or what??
The bible is not a reliable source for the origin of races. Moses made up the noah and his sons story![/b]You're obviously not a student of history coz you would have known the ancient isrealites were scattered over europe and inter married with the europeans hence you have european looking jews like we have today.baseless conspiracy theories!You're the only one with wisdom to determine who's the rightful owner, abi?It makes no difference to me, don't care who owns the tribe. You keep bringing up the issue with your so called prophecies and sh*t. Which have you provided?? [b]Apart from unreliable scriptures and an unverified book.[/b]You've not given proof rather you speculated
based on unreliable accounts of mans origin by the bibleit's not a must that jesus must be non white. [b]If you're so against imperialism you should have stuck with your local amadioha or ifa because JESUS WAS WHITE! Whether you like it or not.

So melodrama is the best you can do in terms of a response , so sad  

------------------------------------------------------------

Salvation is not about whther the Messiah was white or black. However the Bible does not permit the propagation of a lie even if it has no bearing on the issue of salvation.

Propagating the lie that the Messiah was White just shows a level of inferiority complex that you obviously are still dealing with, even though u claim to be an atheist who does not believe in the bible. Moreover if u do not believe in the bible how then do you know the Messiah is white or is that not a confusing and contradictory stand to make (infact it makes you sound like the muslims who also claim the bible is corrupt but at the same time use it as a basis of argument).

It is not my duty to convince you (although i have tried doing that to my chagrin), infact i am no longer going to try to convince you, that you choose to be lost is your choice . My rebuttals to your outlandish statements is now going to be for public consumption, considering that you sound quite equivocal.

My duty is reveal the truth to those that have an ear so that self-loathing individuals like you do not get the opportunity to on one hand propagate a lie about the race of the Messiah and then on the other hand also claim not to believe the bible.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way once again please focus on the topic and stop trying to redirect the topic to something irrelevant, otherwise i would no longer respond to your posts considering that i have already answered ur questions here and even in other previous threads apart from this one (where my answers where even more detailed than i have tried to provide here).

No2Atheism:

So melodrama is the best you can do in terms of a response ,
Salvation is not about whther the Messiah was white or black. However the Bible does not permit the propagation of a lie even if it has no bearing on the issue of salvation.

what lie?
What reliable evidence do you have to show that a lie is being propagated??

Propagating the lie that the Messiah was White just shows a level of inferiority complex that you obviously are still dealing with, even though u claim to be an atheist who does not believe in the bible.

For me to be proud and confident of my race doesn't require i steal the white man's messiah and convert him to my skin colour. . .like you're desperately trying to do.

Moreover if u do not believe in the bible how then do you know the Messiah is white or is that not a confusing and contradictory stand to make (infact it makes you sound like the muslims who also claim the bible is corrupt but at the same time use it as a basis of argument).

I don't belive the bible,

don't know the bloody messiah, neither have i met him. The people who brought the fable /myth to us claim he was white. If you have reliable evidence to the contrary present it. Till then, the messiah remains white like we're told!

It is not my duty to convince you (although i have tried doing that  to my chagrin), infact i am no longer going to try to convince you, that you choose to be lost is your choice  . My rebuttals to your outlandish statements is now going to be for public consumption, considering that you sound quite equivocal.

you're the one who's lost, trying to take the white mans god and convert him to a negro - how sad!

My duty is reveal the truth to those that have an ear so that self-loathing individuals like you do not get the opportunity to on one hand propagate a lie about the race of the Messiah and then on the other hand also claim not to believe the bible.

The messiah is not black. Don't let your confidence in your race be determined by the supposed race of a bloody carpenter who was in the middle east. I'm sure if you were chinese you'd be arguing the messiah was a china man.- it shows your pathetic insecurities and lack of self confidence in your own race .
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By the way once again please focus on the topic and stop trying to redirect the topic to something irrelevant, otherwise i would no longer respond

i have no concern with the $4bn oil or alleged oppression of Gaza, my main issue with this thread was with the way you categorically dismissed the present day isrealites as europeans with no link whatsoever to ancient jews - how ridiculous!

. . to your posts considering that i have already answered ur questions here and even in other previous threads apart from this one (where my answers where even more detailed than i have tried to provide here).

You've not and have never answered anything. All you keep bringing is "the romans called paul an egyptian" and "the creator said this" - did any creator tell you anything??
Or you decided to base your claim on the unreliable and full-of-lies bible. . . .not forgetting that ridiculous unreviewed book you keep bringing.

Tudór:

what lie?
What reliable evidence do you have to show that a lie is being propagated??
For me to be proud and confident of my race doesn't require i steal the white man's messiah and convert him to my skin colour. . .like you're desperately trying to do.I don't belive the bible,

don't know the bloody messiah, neither have i met him. The people who brought the fable /myth to us claim he was white. If you have reliable evidence to the contrary present it. Till then, the messiah remains white like we're told!
you're the one who's lost, trying to take the white mans god and convert him to a negro - how sad!
The messiah is not black. Don't let your confidence in your race be determined by the supposed race of a bloody carpenter who was in the middle east. I'm sure if you were chinese you'd be arguing the messiah was a china man.- it shows your pathetic insecurities and lack of self confidence in your own race .
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i have no concern with the $4bn oil or alleged oppression of Gaza, my main issue with this thread was with the way you categorically dismissed the present day isrealites as europeans with no link whatsoever to ancient jews - how ridiculous!You've not and have never answered anything. All you keep bringing is "the romans called paul an egyptian" and  "the creator said this" - did any creator tell you anything??
Or you decided to base your claim on the unreliable and full-of-lies bible. . . .not forgetting that ridiculous unreviewed book you keep bringing.

Tudor u are hopelessly hopeless, i can't even stop laughing , no worry i can see that you simply cannot understand the truth even if it slap you in the face and broke your teeth, while making you swallow ur saliva.

Continue on your path of self delusion and believe what the West tells you about the Messiah (even though you claim you do not believe in Him, yet you believe what you think you know about his colour, how contradictory can u get) and then on the other hand oppose the bible. Classic case of eating and having ur cake, chai that ur mind is something else. i would not even wish it on my enemy.

The funny thing about Africans like you is that: you choose to believe and swallow certain things/dogmas feed to you by the West (all under the pretence of self delusion of being educated and enlightened) and yet never really decide to find out the truth for yourself. In fact when you are confronted with the truth, it is such a shock to your system that you would say anything and do anything to discredit (just like you are doing right now) even though such a truth as a basis within the context which it is being put forward. E.g. the spiritual and biblica context of the identity of the real isrealites only makes sense within the context of the scriptures, it does not make sense within the context of european secular literature. Yet the only book which have been acclaimed to be historically accurate when the history of Isreal is concerned is that same book that you vehemently choose to oppose and reject so that you can continue to[b] believe [/b] what the west has feed you so far.

The issue of jewish identity is not a casual thing, it is a matter of biblical and historical importance, even someone (Arthur Keostler) who himself is a present day jew (and who really would have benefited from all the benefits of being a present day jew by merely keeping his mouth shut) decided to painstakingly write a book showing that ends up showing that even he himself is not really a jew because present day jews do not really have any connection with the biblical jews.
Yet instead of allow ur sixth sense to come into play, u choose to discount the fact that this particular man was persecuted for revealing an information that is almost a unspoken national secret of the state of Isreal. Yes off course in ur refusal to do proper research, i guess u did not know that the man "Arthur Keostler died in questionable circumstances", instead u sit behind ur internet connection pretending to be knowledgable about an issue of biblical proportions. An issue so important that even the Messiah Himself mentioned that some people would pretend to be Jews in the last days (just as its happening).

@tudor i would really advise you to please check urself cus i really can no longer fathom the basis of your thought process, cus on one hand you seek not to believe in a Creator, yet on the other hand you have dogmatic views that only have a basis within the Biblical faith.

You really need to choose a side and stop dilly-dalling.

---------------------------------------

See your confusion, why are you concerned about the present day european jews since the basis of them being called Jews has to do with something spiritual. I tut something spiritual is not ur cup of tea hence u really ought not to be concerned.

However the truth is that you are worried cus something in your mind keeps telling u wat if atheism is wrong, hence u are trying to dot your i and cross all your t, so as to ensure that you are save.

Unfortunately for you, what you believe to be true i.e. Europeans jews not being liars, is actually not true as far as the bible is concerned. And since we do not agree on the issue of the bible that means we would never agree on the identity of the Real Isrealites, considering that the Bible is my own standard, while what the europeans themselves write is ur own standard.

You need not be bother, moreover i am not suprised that you have choosen to ignore the issue that these people are stealing Gaza's resources but instead ur have choosen to focuse on something which you can never know since you do not believe in the word that determines the spiritual validity of the title of being a jew.

--------------------------------------------

The Bible is the standard whether you believe it or not, is irrelevant,  and i am happy that u conscience would still continue to prick you ,  so deal with it, cus i am not going to give u the satisfaction that you seek.


--------------------------------------------

It is ur perogative to show me why you think I am wrong considering that my basis of saying the european jews are not related to the biblical characters is based predominantly on the bible and not even on secular material (quoting [i]Arthur Koestler [/i]was just a way of presenting to u and others, a secular evidence for something already settled within a biblical context). Hence it is ur perogative to provide contrary evidence since you refuse to accept nor believe that which i have presented. Otherwise if you fail to do so then it shows u have just exercising ur vocal cavity without really passing across any message or idea of useful importance.

In so doing give those who are willing to comment on the issue of the topic of this thread a chance to comment and stop derailing the thread with your dogmatic ways, at least you said u descended from Apes, hence it should not bother you whether or not the bible is true or not and neither should it bother you whether or not European jews are real jews or not, so please eat ur cake , have it , sleep on it and give us a little space.

THANK YOU, FOR NOTHING ,  CONSIDERING THAT ALL THAT YOU HAVE CONTRIBUTED SO FAR IS MERELY MELODRAMA AND NOTHING MORE, 

I don't get the point No2Atheism is trying to make. No2Atheism are you trying to say that the mythical abraham, moses, jesus and paul were all black people? Is that the point you are trying to make?

toneyb:

I don't get the point No2Atheism is trying to make. No2Atheism are you trying to say that the mythical abraham, moses, jesus and paul were all black people? Is that the point you are trying to make?

First and foremost there is nothing mythical about moses or paul or abraham or the Messiah.

If you believe them to be mythical then you need not be bothered about their skin colour since it means it should not be of a serious concern.
If you believe them to mytical and you are still concerned about their skin colour, then it means you are contradicting yourself because the exist or non-existence of their skin colour should a matter of faith based on records from a faith based book.
If you believe them to be mythical then wat is the basis by which you believe Cleopatra, Mark Anthony, Julius Ceasare, Alexander the Great, Atilla the Hun, Hannibal to be real historical figures and yet you believe the Biblical figures to be mythical. Its that not a self contradictory double standard.



Secondly,

How do i know all this, well its right there in the bible, even the Creator said it Himself said that the Isrealites were like the Ethiopians (and i am yet to see a white ethiopian  ). I would rather believe the Creator Himself than believe what the western media is saying.

Abraham - I have no biblical proof that about whether not he was black and i do not want to base my statement on conjecture.

Moses - Yes he was black (there is biblical proof, check your bible).
Paul - Yes he was black. (there is biblical proof, check your bible).
The Messiah - Yes was black (check your bible for references in the book of revelation and also the fact that He was born as a full blooded Isrealite).

How black were they, I would confidently say they were as black as Ethiopians (maybe not as black as Wesley Snipes  )

How do i know all this, well its right there in the bible, even the Creator said it Himself said that the Isrealites were like the Ethiopians (and i am yet to see a white ethiopian  ). I would rather believe the Creator Himself than believe what the western media is saying.


------------------------------------------------------

I can confidently show you the bible passages that support the issue of blackness or non blackness that i am talking about, hence if you wish I would just reference you to the pages where i have already pointed them out earlier in the past posts on nairaland.

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Does their blackness or non-blackness have anything to do with Salvation, absolutely not. Salvation is for all races and skin colors. The point i am just trying to make here is that people need to stop believing a lie and start telling the truth exactly the way the Bible clearly says it. We cannot be picking and choosing what we wish to believe from the bible, just because its comfortable or uncomfortable to say in public.

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The purpose of this thread was not even to focus on the issue of blackness or non-blackness of the Ancient isrealites, it was to focus more on the issue of the fact that the people who claim to be jews as of today and who are not even related to the biblical jews, are actually stealing the natural resources of Gaza. It was @Tudor that forced me to stand my ground and digress from the topic itself.

No2Atheism:


First and foremost there is nothing mythical about moses or paul or abraham or the Messiah.

If you believe them to be mythical then you need not be bothered about their skin colour since it means it should not be of a serious concern.
If you believe them to mytical and you are still concerned about their skin colour, then it means you are contradicting yourself because the exist or non-existence of their skin colour should a matter of faith based on records from a faith based book.
If you believe them to be mythical then wat is the basis by which you believe Cleopatra, Mark Anthony, Julius Ceasare, Alexander the Great, Atilla the Hun, Hannibal to be real historical figures and yet you believe the Biblical figures to be mythical. Its that not a self contradictory double standard.

First of all there is no record of abraham and moses any where else other than in the Torah. NO evidence AT all to show that any of them ever existed. I don't know who Julius Ceasare,  Cleopatra or Alexander the Great are but I know that some of them were mentioned in other text unlike moses and abraham that were mentioned only in the Torah. Julius Cesare has ancient surviving bust of him which gives people an idea of how he looked like, There is no bust for moses, abraham even jesus himself. I don't know anything about hannibal or hun and I don't care. If they are not talked about in any other text except in one bais text alone and have no bust or any other thing to show that they once existed then they are all mythical constructs as far as I am concerned. Egyptian kings that lived over 4000 years ago have their tombs there for all to see same with some chinese rulers that lived thousands of years ago.

Secondly,

How do i know all this, well its right there in the bible, even the Creator said it Himself said that the Isrealites were like the Ethiopians (and i am yet to see a white ethiopian  ). I would rather believe the Creator Himself than believe what the western media is saying.

Abraham - I have no biblical proof that about whether not he was black and i do not want to base my statement on conjecture.

. So the bible or word of creator as you call it did not even bother to give the description of the mythical abraham.

Moses - Yes he was black (there is biblical proof, check your bible).
Paul - Yes he was black. (there is biblical proof, check your bible).
The Messiah - Yes was black (check your bible for references in the book of revelation and also the fact that He was born as a full blooded Isrealite).

How black were they, I would confidently say they were as black as Ethiopians (maybe not as black as Wesley Snipes  )

How do i know all this, well its right there in the bible, even the Creator said it Himself said that the Isrealites were like the Ethiopians (and i am yet to see a white ethiopian  ). I would rather believe the Creator Himself than believe what the western media is saying.


------------------------------------------------------

I can confidently show you the bible passages that support the issue of blackness or non blackness that i am talking about, hence if you wish I would just reference you to the pages where i have already pointed them out earlier in the past posts on nairaland.

----------------------------------------------------------

Does their blackness or non-blackness have anything to do with Salvation, absolutely not. Salvation is for all races and skin colors. The point i am just trying to make here is that people need to stop believing a lie and start telling the truth exactly the way the Bible clearly says it. We cannot be picking and choosing what we wish to believe from the bible, just because its comfortable or uncomfortable to say in public.

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The purpose of this thread was not even to focus on the issue of blackness or non-blackness of the Ancient isrealites, it was to focus more on the issue of the fact that the people who claim to be jews as of today and who are not even related to the biblical jews, are actually stealing the natural resources of Gaza. It was @Tudor that forced me to stand my ground and digress from the topic itself.

Your theory sounds very funny but it might be true after all. My mum is Jewish, her sister lives in Haifa they all are Israeli citizens but they are originally from Poland. My cousins husband is also an Israelite but his grand parents were from Lithuania. Most of my mums friends who come to visit us from Israel have European ancestry.

No2Atheism:

@debosky

first and foremost, okay thanks for removing the spamming bot (that spams) teeth from my post.

1. You are wrong, stealing has already started because both Egypt and British Gas were at one point in time[b] sold[/b] rights to a resource that belongs to Gaza and the last time i checked the people of Gaza were not the ones who did the selling (please debosky go back and check). Stealing is same as selling or taking what does not belong to you in the first place.

Where does Israel come into play here? Israel buys all its gas from Europe and is even responsible for the gas that goes to Gaza so how come they are shockingly to blame for "stealing" Gaza oil? You tend to forget that prior to 1967 Gaza belonged to Egypt and NOT "palestinians".

No2Atheism:

2. Why does Isreal have to be involved in what belongs to Gaza, does Isreal take permission from other states before exploiting their own natural resource, please @debo u and i both know that your statement is less than adequate and even quite insulting to the people of Gaza. Its that same as saying Niger Delta people need to take permission from Nigeria before being able to exploit their own land (funny enough that you are actually supporting Niger Delta hence why the shift in policy this time around when it concerns the state of isreal and the people of Gaza).

How is she involved? You mentioned Egypt and British Gas earlier . . . which is an Israeli company?

No2Atheism:

3. Yes i know Hamas is an islamic terrorist organisation, nevertheless, two wrongs do not make a right, this much was shown as an example by the Messiah Himself.

But Hamas has the free reign to remain the ones in the wrong and Israel has to remain in the right?

No2Atheism:

4. The additional point still stands in that the people who call themselves isrealites are not even descendants of the ancient isrealites

this is revisionist drivel perpetuated by arabs and lapped up by clueless folks. How did hebrew survive? How did all the ancient Jewish rites survive if these are usurping Europeans?

No2Atheism:

hence not only are they stealing from the people of Gaza by claiming to be Jews

this is the funniest part. In one breath you delegitimised the Jews THEN WENT AHEAD TO MAKE UP ANOTHER FANTASY PEOPLE WHO NEVER EXISTED AT ANY POINT IN TIME?

Who are the "people of Gaza"? What were they called before 1948? Was Gaza EVER an arab nation or a part of an arab nation? Was Gaza not a colony of Egypt prior to 1967? Didnt Egypt seize Gaza from Israel in 1948?

No2Atheism:

they are also stealing from the land of isreal in that they living and benefitting from a land and property that does not even belong to them in the first place.

So who does the land belong to? the people of Yasser Arafat the Egyptian?

No2Atheism:

5. Hence please did is not just a claim, do ur own research from the links and videos provided instead of claiming that i am peddling a false information.

Sorry all you have here are false claims.

@debosky

I think i have egg on my face  on this particular quotation below, I want to make a correction to an earlier statement directed at you  for which i was wrong. The wrong statement said and i quote:

No2Atheism:

1. You are wrong, stealing has already started because both Egypt and British Gas were at one point in time sold rights to a resource that belongs to Gaza and the last time i checked the people of Gaza were not the ones who did the selling (please debosky go back and check). Stealing is same as selling or taking what does not belong to you in the first place.

Further research on the topic shows that although the State of Isreal currently occupies and controls the location of the Gas Reserves, it was actually the Palestinian Authority that sold the original rights to British Gas, while involving Egypt one way or another probably due to the historical connection of Egypt to the place or something  .

You can go ahead and read and study my detailed response to @davidylan to see the analysis of what the State of Isreal is doing wrong against the people that directly and indirectly involves the $4billion worth of gas deposit.

The original topic post has been altered to account for the correction  .


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@others

Okay i agree that it was a little melodramatic that i implied that Isreal had already started stealing the $4billion worth of gas (for all we know they might have started stealing it or they might not have started stealing nevertheless one thing is for sure, they are in control of it). Nevertheless i still stand by the implication that Isreal is controlling and occupying what does not belong to them (the last time i checked that was a mild version of fapping  )

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@davidylan

Wow lets just say nairaland keeps springing suprises, even to someone like me who hardly takes things seriously.

davidylan:

Where does Israel come into play here? Israel buys all its gas from Europe and is even responsible for the gas that goes to Gaza so how come they are shockingly to blame for "stealing" Gaza oil? You tend to forget that prior to 1967 Gaza belonged to Egypt and NOT "palestinians".

How is she involved? You mentioned Egypt and British Gas earlier . . . which is an Israeli company? 

But Hamas has the free reign to remain the ones in the wrong and Israel has to remain in the right?

this is revisionist drivel perpetuated by arabs and lapped up by clueless folks. How did hebrew survive? How did all the ancient Jewish rites survive if these are usurping Europeans?

this is the funniest part. In one breath you delegitimised the Jews THEN WENT AHEAD TO MAKE UP ANOTHER FANTASY PEOPLE WHO NEVER EXISTED AT ANY POINT IN TIME? 

Who are the "people of Gaza"? What were they called before 1948? Was Gaza EVER an arab nation or a part of an arab nation? Was Gaza not a colony of Egypt prior to 1967? Didnt Egypt seize Gaza from Israel in 1948?

So who does the land belong to? the people of Yasser Arafat the Egyptian?

Sorry all you have here are false claims.

this is revisionist drivel perpetuated by arabs and lapped up by clueless folks

   

Sorry all you have here are false claims.

   

this is the funniest part. In one breath you delegitimised the Jews THEN WENT AHEAD TO MAKE UP ANOTHER [b]FANTASY PEOPLE WHO NEVER EXISTED AT ANY POINT IN TIME?  [/b]

   

Okay, now this is a little unexpected, almost like a curved ball. Well i guess according to your statements, that makes me a clueless person, lying person that makes up fantasy stories   hmmm quite an extremely distasteful choice of words don't u think. Let me just say that I would let that pass, even though I do not understand the basis and motive for such statements, where they are coming from and why.

   Nevertheless i would seek to answer your raised questions accordingly without taking too much of an offense and also try and make a few foundational framework via which the discussion is going to be made.

I did not mention where or how Isreal gets gas or whether they get it from Europe or not, that is non of my business, i do not know about it, and am not discussing it, this discussion has to do with the Gas Deposit of the Shore of Gaza and how the authenticity of the european jews comes into play.

Yes Hamas are terrorists, nevertheless even criminals deserve a fair hearing, hence because the state of isreal carries the name "isreal" does not mean i would dogmatically support them in all things, even when its clearly unbiblical to do so. In this case of off-shore Gas deposit of Gaza it is clear as daylight that Isreal is at fault.

Here goes:



THE JEWISH QUESTION:
------------------------------

So the questions becomes, am I just another clueless folk being feed arab propaganda or is there actually a biblical basis for my stand as far as we are faced with the problem of the question, WHO IS A JEW and WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE

Modern definition seeks to define this as either practices Judaism or at least is born of a Jewish mother (please lets note that normally, nationality of a child is determined by the father and not the mother, however we would ignore this for now).

For me as a person, the question of who is and who is not a jew is not something trivial, and this is because according to the bible, the Messiah Himself told us explicitly that there are going to be certain people who would call themselves jews but who really are not jews. This non-trivial question is more confounded by the additional question of saying are all isrealites jews or are all jews isrealites and do all jews have the same skin color.

Hence the non-triviality of the question requires me to seek sources.

- Bible
- Modern Jewish sources

Personally, source number one (i.e Bible is enough for me) however just for the sake of those who think this is a fantasy, i have included additional sources.

1. In answering the question of who is a jew biblically, we are forced to re-examine the former question of who are the ancient isrealites. In other to answer this, lets understand that biblically strictly speaking, a jew is basically supposed to be a descendant of judah. Hence technically speaking not all Isrealites are jews cus other isrealites are descendants of the other sons of Jacob e.g. Paul who was a Benjamite. The Messiah was strictly a jew because he was born into the house of judah (hence the Lion of the Tribe of Judah thing). Hence in other to avoid the conundrum of biblical jewish definition i have decided to strictly use the word "Isrealite" so that it contains and includes everybody of the descendant of Jacob. Hence we are just now faced with the problem of finding out who the Ancient Isrealites were and how they looked like.

a. The ancient Isrealites are a descendant of Shem, through Eber (hence the name Hebrews), through Abraham, through Isaac and then finally Jacob (also known as Isreal).

     Let's note that apart from Shem we also have Japheth and Ham. Japheth is more or less the fore-father of the Caucasians, Turkic people blah blah blah (in simple terms, but things are much messy than dat ). While Ham (which sort of means black/burnt) is the fore-father of people of Egypt (i.e. Mizraim), Cush,. . . Ethiopia, Nubia etc i.e. (Meaning Ethiopians are black and have remained black till today).

Now to settle how the ancient isrealites looked like, i do not have time for too much story even though there are cases in the new and old testaments that show the Miriam (Sister of Moses), Moses Himself and Paul are actually black-skinned, hence instead of using those examples, I am going to focus on the word of the Creator Himself (at least we can all agree that the Creator cannot be bullshitting us even if every other person is).


Amos 9:7
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RNKJV
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Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith יהוה. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

KJV
----
Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?
--------------------



b. So we have that from the perspective of the Creator Himself, that ancient Isrealites looked like the Ethiopians (i.e. they were black  )

Yes i know the media and popular opinion says that they are supposed to look pasty white like the hollywood movies, however i think i would stick my neck out and instead go with what the Creator Himself says in the Bible, showing us that Ancient Isrealites were black.

So putting in mind the concept that marrying outside of their nation, was not really permitted for the children of isreal (as far as old testament was concerned and prior to the coming of the Messiah), then logic shows that it means that majority of the descendants of the ancients should still have black features, just as most Ethiopians have more or less retained their black features till date.


HEBREW CUSTOM
----------------------

For some reason the word Hebrew tends to be synonymous with Isrealites, even though technically speaking Eber had other descendants apart from Isrealites, nevertheless we would still try and stick with that little opinion so as not to complicate matters for ourselves.

The issue of whether or not people are real jews because they preserved Hebrew customs can easily be discredited by considering the following explanation. Even in our modern times it is an open secret that non-isrealites could easily have preserved Hebrew customs (through their interaction and observance of the jewish religion of judaism) as good as and even sometimes better than those who own the customs themselves (e.g. wannabe nigerian muslims that sometimes tend to be more Arab even than the arabs themselves and also the preservation of Judaism customs in different places in Africa).

Thus it should be easy to see and understand that because Hebrew customs are preserved through adherence to Judaism faith, does not mean that those people who preserve the customs are in any way biological connected with the ancient isrealites themselves. This is easily seen in the nigerian example that i gave earlier in that a radicalised nigerian muslim that practices arabic culture day and night does not mean such a nigerian is Arabic by descent, just as a nigerian hindu religious believer cannot be an indian by descendant just because their family had an history of being devotees of the hindu custom and religion.

History shows that a lot of people actually adopted Judaism over time (for reasons known to them), and thus essentially are bound to preserve Hebew customs as a result.

Moreover if exhibition of Hebrew customs was the standard of being a real isrealite, then that means Paul might be mistaken for not being an Hebrew (considering that he specifically wrote some bible verses concerning this same very problem of early church believers being wrongly told to adopt jewish customs. Hence the reason why he wrote those letters detailing to people how concentratedly Hebrew he was by upbringing and how those so called Hebrew traits no longer matter in the big picture of Salvation by grace through faith in the Messiah).
Thus it should be easy to understand that just as there would be real isrealites that would have rejected the message of the salvation and decide to stick to judaism, at the same time there were also real isrealites who would have accept the message of salvation and also choose to drop some of their Hebrew customs. Hence it does not take much for one to realise that with the spread of the gospel, there would also have been a gradual shift away from the practise of judaism/hebrew customs over different generations of real isrealites that were members of the early church, so much so that it would not have been too far fetched to say that after like 500yrs, some people might even be tempted to assume that those who practise judaism were the real isrealites and that those who do not were not the real isrealites.
This explanation is exactly the reason why the practise or non-practise of judaism is not the standard for the determination of who is and who is not a real isrealite, considering that its on record that different people from different nationalities also converted to judaism over the 2000yrs after the coming of the Messiah.




THE EUROPEAN JEWS QUESTION:
-----------------------------------------
  Most Jews in the State of Isreal are either Sephardic or Askhenazi Jews. Majority of the people in the State of Isreal claiming to be jews are the people known as the Askhenazi Jews. Unfortunately, they do not have the black features as expected from the earlier description of the Isrealites by the Creator Himself, hence we have a conumdrum on our hands. Who are they and where do they come from.

  Fortunately, this conumdrum was solved by modern jewish man himself. This jewish man goes by the name of Arthur Koestler he was the one who did the painstaking research of the origins of the modern day people known as Jews in his book "The Thirtheenth Tribe". Unfortunately, Arthur Koestler ended up finding out that Ashkenazi Jews are basically descendants of Turkic Khazars meaning that they are descendants of Japheth and thus have no biological nor generational connection to the Biblical Ancient Isrealites. Hence it means that majority of the people claiming to be Jews in the land of Isreal are not even Jews at all (just as the bible has said).

Thus we are left with the conundrum of the Sephardic Jews (who are they and where do they come from) to be sincere , i have no biblical nor historical basis of how to place the Sephardic jews cus the truth is that anything about them now is just mere speculation as far as i am concerned and i sincerely do not like doing speculations.
The bottom line is that the real ancestry of sephardic jews is more or less fuzzy at best, hence i personally would not stick my neck out to claim anything concerning them yet. Sephardic jews are more or less a minority in the State of Isreal.


So how does that answer the topic's questions: Well that is quite simple, THE ASHKENAZI JEWS ARE MORE OR LESS THE ONES RULING THE AFFAIRS OF THE STATE OF ISREAL AND MAKING THE IMPORTANT DECISIONS INFACT THEIR IS SERIOUS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST NON-ASHKENAZI JEWS WITHIN THE STATE OF ISREAL.

THUS FROM AN HISTORICAL AND BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, THE ASHKENAZI JEWS DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHT TO THE LAND OF ISREAL AND THUS HAVE NO RIGHT TO ANY RESOURCES THERE WHATSOEVER. YES THEY MAY BE OCCUPYING IT NOW, YES THEY MAYBE IN CONTROL, NEVERTHELESS IT STILL DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT AND TRUTH THAT THEY ARE IMPOSTORS.



GAZA AND NATURAL GAS ISSUE:
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1. Prior to 1948, there was nothing like the State of Isreal either (so if the people of Gaza are guilty of not being called "people of gaza" so also is the state of Isreal guilty of not really existing prior to 1948 i.e. the issue here is not about when they both start to exist as a group of people in a particular location but rather whether signed agreements are being honoured by both sides of the border). Thus in as much as the so called people of gaza can vilified for not having existed as under the name "People of Gaza" so also is it that current Isrealis had no claim to the land nor its resources in the technical sense of the word prior to 1948 since they were mostly not even biological descendants of ancient isrealites to begin with.
Hence what is now known as the State of Isreal came into existence by 1948 through a United Nations act and not through an historical existence of descendants of Ancient Isrealites over millenia. In short what exists in the State of Isreal today is more or less a collection of people/jews (to be defined later) from different nations and countries who came in to settle into a part of a former British Protectorate.

2. The only people that really have an historic claim to the land were the Ancient Isrealites and their descendants (hence why it is important to tackle the questions about who are the ancient isrealites and where are their descendants now).
    a. I provided an answer to the first part of the question i.e. Who are the Ancient Isrealites and this answer comes in the form of who they are, and who they are not.
    b. However the answer to the second part question, as to where are the descendant ancient isrealites are right now, cannot be fully answered. It is partly answered in that we only know that they are not Ashkenazi Jews.
    One might think just knowing about the Ashkenazi jews is not enough to make a statement about the Gaza decable. Well actually it is enough as a result of one simple information that i gave earlier and that is that: Ashkenazi Jews are basically ruling the State of Isreal as a majority and Ashkenazi Jews are being favoured within the State of Isreal, hence it means decisions being made by the state of isreal are more or less decisions that favour Ashkenazi Jew interests, considering that its an open secret that Ashkenazi Jews enjoy a priviledged status within the State of Isreal.

3. A lot of water has passed under the bridge as regards the issue of[i] Land of Isreal, Egypt, Arabs and Palestinians, British Protectorate, Jewish Settlement, Arab settlement, Isreal-Arab wars[/i] etc. I would not even bother to venture into trying to go into that mess right now considering that all parties involved are guilty of one atrocity or another. Hence i am going to restrict myself to issues that related to the main topic of this thread in relation to the point raised by @davidylan.


After hullaballoos of wars and counter wars between israel, arabs, egypt and others blah blah blah [/i]and all the [i]land claims and counter claims, the following needs to be noted the following:

- 1993 [/b]Oslo Peace Accord means that the Palestinian Authority (PLA) had a [b]legal authority over 20 Nautical Miles of Off-shore waters of the coast of Gaza.

- 1999 to 2000 Within the period, PLA signs a 25yr agreement with British Gas and CCC (Consolidated Construction International Company) and also within that period Gas Deposits were discovered off shore Gaza by British Gas and valued at $4 billion. Hence this means that the Gaza deposits legally belong to the palestinian people (off which the people of gaza are a part of even if they are in a separate location different from Westbank) since they already had legal control and ownership of the area.
      Hence from the legal perspective, the State of Isreal has no right to the shores of Gaza where the Gas Deposits are located, irrespective of whether or not Hamas is a terrorist organization or not. The terrorist status of Hamas is irrelevant in this case simply because the Gas Deposit already belongs to the people of Gaza (i.e. Palestinians living under the rule of Hamas)

- 2001 to 2003 State of Isreal starts scheming for the Gas Fields.

- 2007 State of Isreal actually sought to buy gas from the palestinians (an open and obvious acknowledgement of the right of ownership of the gas deposit by the palestinians).

- 2008 [/b]Deals pertaining to palestinian gas breaks down. Isreal attacks Hamas/ Gaza for various reasons and the later effectively taken over the off-shores of Gaza, hence Isreal has effectively taken control of the Gas Deposits off Gaza. Isreal tries to reopen Gas related negotiations with British Gas, despite that its obvious to everyone that they are basically the ones now controlling areas containing the gas deposits.

[b]
Hence all of the above raised points and counter points are the basis of my view point.

thank you.

Where is my earlier long reply??
Anyway No2atheism, you keep going around in circles chanting the same "word of the creator" - the bible is unreliable crap and until you can bring tangible evidence and not the ramblings of an imaginary creator, then we'll take you seriously. Right now you're a JOKE peddling some far-fetched theory! keep wallowing in your delusions. . .