Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? - Foreign Affairs - Nairaland
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| Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by JeSoul(f): 10:26pm On Jul 22, 2009 |
I have been waiting for one of NL's resident political analysts to start this hot topic. Since this bill is not available anywhere for regular citizens to view, we have to rely on what the "experts" tell us, and everything I have heard about this bill has been bad. If Obama's own people - democrats - are even voicing their opposition louder and louder, it seems to speak volumes about the problems with this bill. Another thing that disturbs me is Obama always seems to be in a hurry to pass things, instead of allowing scrutiny and in-depth analysis & modifications to be made - from both sides - in order to produce the best possible bill. So my fellow american citizens, residents, adherents, concerned foreigners - what are your thoughts on the issue? |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by mccloud224(m): 6:13am On Aug 18, 2009 |
Actually, there is nothing "rushed" about this bill.Matter of fact, it is one of the most over flogged issues concerning the welfare of U.S citizens.If Bush were still in power, that bill would have been pushed long ago.This thing has been dragging and dragging for ages.I guess it all boils down to people being scared of huge decisions being made by a black president.Everything that's been done is to frustrate him from being re-elected. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by coolblue(m): 7:43am On Aug 18, 2009 |
I will have to agree with mcccloud on this. this is reform that is well over 60 years too late. This is something i am sure the republicans do not want the black man to take credit for bringing change to the american health care system. The bill is expensive and is going to take some hardhits but its probably the best that can happen to reduce the cost of healthcare- even if the reform is implemented today it is too late. much too late. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Nobody: 5:37pm On Aug 18, 2009 |
mccloud224: Hit the nail on the head quite brilliantly, your post more than sums up the REAL PROBLEM with the healthcare bill. Its not being "rushed", he debated this at length well before the elections and this was the ONLY difference between himself and Hillary Clinton as regards policy during the democratic primaries. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Nobody: 5:37pm On Aug 18, 2009 |
JeSoul: Its been available for eons, i've seen it. http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf Most of what you've heard about the bill has been "bad" primarily because most of it has been lies. i.e. - no one will force you on the government option - private insurers will not be forced out - there is no death panel there. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Kobojunkie: 8:08pm On Aug 18, 2009 |
mccloud224: I disagree! This has little to do with race, in my opinion, but more to do with the fact that a) People are still weary of having to foot the bill for those who CHOOSE not to work b) People wonder how much this will, in addition to other things, cost them in the future. I mean we are still talking of the same Americans who hate tax increases and vote against them more times than not |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by TayoD1(m): 8:15pm On Aug 18, 2009 |
@Kobo, I disagree! This has little to do with race, in my opinion, but more to do with the fact thatIs it not pathetic how peopl attibute everything to RACE? Even after Americans elected its first Black President, the Left still feels the only way to maintain relevance to to continue their age-long RACE politics. One of the reasons why I just can't stand the DEMS. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Nobody: 8:39pm On Aug 18, 2009 |
Kobojunkie: these are no "facts" . . . why? a. Are they also complaining of "footing the bill for those who choose not to work" when they pay into medicare and social security? why havent they asked for that to be repealed? Are they aware that they already pay for those who choose not to work (in their ever increasing health premiums) and that its called the ER? b) Are they aware that the Iraq war (that they enthusiastically supported) is now over $1trillion? That the proposed healthcare bill is far less than that? That their insurance premiums are going up anyway? That this bill is designed to reduce healthcare costs? |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Kobojunkie: 8:52pm On Aug 18, 2009 |
Tayo-D: It is unfortunate that even after the elections, some folks still think objections of any sort to Obama's plans are race motivated. I am not against the democrats myself but I think this is just a continuation of the nonsense from the elections. It used to be valid to state that americans do not like tax increases of any kind and I remember people being furious about their children being laden with more bills to pay when the first bailout was suggested. Many bailouts later, people are still furious, and they know Healthcare is going to be more debt on top of what we already carry. Not sure when it all became about race and nothing else. I know for sure that even some black people ( if not the majority) do not want to have to pay more taxes. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Nobody: 7:54pm On Aug 23, 2009 |
Americans are not civilised at all |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by mccloud224(m): 3:09am On Aug 24, 2009 |
It is unfortunate that even after the elections, some folks still think objections of any sort to Obama's plans are race motivated. I am not against the democrats myself but I think this is just a continuation of the nonsense from the elections. @Kobojunkie I have one question for all your "civilized grammar". If Bush was still the president, would all this foot dragging on the health bill be taking place? Apply small common sense in your replies abeg! |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by coolblue(m): 6:54am On Aug 26, 2009 |
The debate taking place right now indicates that Obama is considered by the broad majority of Republicans as being strongly ANTI-AMERICAN. His policies are also considered anti american and anything he does is projected racially. To assume there is no racial undertone to this is to assume in error. Nobody like the current tax system, its awful, a further increase in tax would be a disaster but then again losing your health insurance when you need it the most is a lot worse than the tax situation. Its not compulsory that you move to the single payer option but competition is always very healthy. If any other company provided the iphone 'cept at&t i would probably have better options but no we dont. Truth be told health insurance today is expensive and with the understanding that these costs will double in less than nine years is less than encouraging. we need the reform not for those who cant afford it but for those who can, |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by SeanT21(f): 6:59am On Aug 26, 2009 |
mikeansy: who is?? |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Kobojunkie: 2:36pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
mccloud224: The exact same happened during Bush's terms in office. -- No concrete agreements reached and most of Bush's ideas were scrapped. His plans were not same as Obama's but he had plans for HealthCare reform and tried to get them all passed as well. I am guessing this issue was not popular enough back then for you to have taken notice, huh? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/03/opinion/03sat1.html Look, the point I am trying to get you to see is that this is not the first administration to try its own style of REFORM on the HealthCare System. Past Administrations, regardless of what group was majority in house and senate, had similar battles to deal with, and that is why the situation remains as it is today. Bush had 8 long years and the republicans were majority in the house. That did not help him at all. Obama has only been in office less than a year, and the democrats currently have both the house and senate. A naïve mind would assume that means Obama will get a free ride all the way but that, as we can see is not the case. Instead of coming up with ridiculous and non realistic ways of the explaining away the opposition this bill is currently facing, it would make more sense if people on here actually took time to consider the various reasons put forth and why they have so far been able to hold back the reform for this long. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by Kobojunkie: 2:42pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
coolblue: I would like to ask why the presidents before him failed in correcting the very same situation. Did this same racial issue exist back then, considering you seem to make it a part of this particular case but I wonder if you are willing to be fair and apply the same to other failed attempts by past presidents to change the health care landscape in a similar, if not the same way? People (whites, blacks, Hispanics) have felt this way about taxes and healthcare in America for the longest. Why exactly is it suddenly about race? coolblue: Come on!!! Must you own an Iphone? Please stop trying to compare applies with guavas, yes, I mean guavas! Lol coolblue: Oh!!! So, you are not even in line with getting it for those who CAN’T afford it, but for those who can? Great! |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by NegroNtns(m): 1:06pm On Aug 30, 2009 |
We spent the last quarter of last year listening to lamentations from sympathisers of the "Too Big To Fail" Bank Club. Any prediction for what to expect this winter? I think we will hear from sympathisers of Universal Healthcare that their idea is "Too Big To Fail". Harley Davidson of USA might show up on the list as well. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by NegroNtns(m): 1:43pm On Aug 30, 2009 |
@Post, Government run healthcare system is best where the government is not simultaneously funding alternative options that are in direct competition with one another. US Governmen is currently subsidising private healthcare system in America and it is planning to float a competitive alterative. . . its just a planned disaster, thats all it is. It would be different if the private option is totally funded on the capital market. . .then the Government coul argue that its option will save cost. People that will go on the government option will be turned into a milking cow. . .Doctors will be eager to perform surgeries at the least possible step for a solution because doing so brings in more money to their pocket and this reality will surge the cost of medical care because insurer's will then raise cost of coverage for malpractice litigation. If the cost go up on the public option then private providers, even though their cost of operation remains flat, will be incensed to increase premiums so to compete at market prices. At the end of the day, public or not, it will result in graded care offerings and if you cannot afford high premiums you end with a basic care that is shittier than the shittiest of what is available today under private systems. Lagos had a robust universal healthcare at one time. You have a healthcard that you take to one of the community health centers around the metro - Massey street Health Center, Oke Arin Health Center, Yaba Heath Center, Surulere Health Center, etc, - they have the General Helath care and the Pharmacies under one roof. For special care - Ob/Gyn, Orthopaedic, Radiation Therapy - they refer you to a specialist. Then you also have the General Hospital at Odan. All the costs were covered by the Lagos State Government for all residents. As population swelled it became difficult to fund and manage but what really sunk them was the fact that Lagos University Teaching Hospital became a direct competition. Government Doctors with years of hands on experience in public health system were readily recruited and paid far more under secured research grants at LUTH than universal helathcare operated by government. From LUTH a bunch of them subsequently found fame and success and emigrated. Many of them ended up in Ibadan as well. I pointed out this scenario to highlight the dangers of a government funded project competing and suffocating its alternative. True, the picture they are painting now is rosy and sound good but you only need to check track record of how big government always unfailingly screw itself when it comes to options between privatization and nationalization. |
| Re: Obama's Healthcare Reform - Fair Or Foul? by coolblue(m): 11:27am On Sep 01, 2009 |
Kobojunkie: The Presidents before Obama who wanted health care reform failed at this because of vested corporate interests (insurance companies with large amounts of money), that is a given. Why Obama's case is being racially driven is because just like you said the democrats have a majority in the house and the senate- this translates into reform (i am not suggesting that all democrats agree on all the points in the bill) because now more than ever IT CAN BE DONE. What better way to discredit the govt plan when you can’t use the filibuster- simple make it seem wrong. Make it such that we don’t concentrate on what’s important and look at the less important things like- RACE. Making death threats and the like, comparing him to Hitler and then calling it a socialist policy  Kobojunkie: The reason why we have anti-trust legislation is to protect the people from monopolistic institutions that if unchallenged will provide us with sub-standard services at insane costs. Bottom line in my OWN opinion is for us to successfully bring down the cost of healthcare there should be a govt option- without that, it’s all window dressing. Its a given that 80% of Americans are covered right now by health insurance what that means is that there is a much larger set of people to worry about and not just those skipping across the border and swimming the Atlantic, lol. With roughly 14000 American losing their insurance every week because the costs are abortive, 2 in 3 small businesses- the bedrock of American enterprise - will not be able to pay insurance costs by the end of 2010 because of the high premiums. 1 out of these 3 businesses will declare bankruptcy before the end of this year because of healthcare payments. It’s very important that we have reform - and this was my error- not only for those who cannot afford to pay now or are not covered but also for those who can! |
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