Mbediogu:


Radiographers are technicians who are supposed to be supervised by Radiologists, but u know how our system works. All of them are now functioning as 'shadow doctors' granting themselves consultancy status, making money and polluting pure medical practice.

i conclude your knowledge of RADIOGRAPHY is very shallow. Radiographers are not and will never be supervised by Radiologist. Radiographers concern themselves with producing the best representation of the patient (image) and radiologist concern themselves with interpretation of the image.. Nobody bosses nobody.
full private diagnostic centres have Chief Radiographers as the overall head.
Next time don't speak out of ignorance or the reflex to speak nonsense.

sonnie10:


I agree with you that radiologist are permitted to take X-Ray but that is not the standard of care in radiology. It is unethical to leave the care of patient with someone who does not have mastery of the equipment. The radiologist domain is in the reading room and not the exam room. Most of those equipment need certain level of expertise to avoid injury to patient. With multiple knobs and controls, there is no time to start figuring out which to use while a patient is on the table.

Also, the name was not changed because of prestige. Things have really changed over the past decades. Without advance knowledge of certain medical and science courses, there is no way Radiographers could possible obtain optimal images for studies (reading) considering the current sophisticated equipment they work with. May be you still have the impression of dark room and washing of radiographic films, it might interest you to know that those day are gone. Even, the days of computer radiography are numbered. What they have now is digital radiography with the science and technology that comes with it. Radiographers must now have the knowledge of electronics clinical information system, in addition to medical knowledge. The work flow through PACS and similar software have made it more complicated this days.

So, now tell me why a radiographer would acquire all these education and you still conclude that the name change is just for prestige?

Outside nigeria radiography is a 3 year training, it is not even a course per say. In the Uk it is both a teaching and training course and one can do a masters after the Training. The prestige I spoke about was not meant to insult but was to explain that the difference between the phrase lab technician and the word radiography is a world apart. Then when one brings in the changes in technology involved in radiography toi will understand the name change was well deserved.

moffymichael:
Your reason is based on the fact that radiography is not a popular discipline, we only have minute number of pple in the field (so, virtually, no competition in the labour market) and their service is not dat seriously needed because we have other advanced techniques of imaging the humman body eg NMR, MRI, Ultrasonic etc

All doz imaging technique are done by same ppl------------radiographer/logist

sonnie10:


I agree with you that radiologist are permitted to take X-Ray but that is not the standard of care in radiology. It is unethical to leave the care of patient with someone who does not have mastery of the equipment. The radiologist domain is in the reading room and not the exam room. Most of those equipment need certain level of expertise to avoid injury to patient. With multiple knobs and controls, there is no time to start figuring out which to use while a patient is on the table.

Also, the name was not changed because of prestige. Things have really changed over the past decades. Without advance knowledge of certain medical and science courses, there is no way Radiographers could possible obtain optimal images for studies (reading) considering the current sophisticated equipment they work with. May be you still have the impression of dark room and washing of radiographic films, it might interest you to know that those day are gone. Even, the days of computer radiography are numbered. What they have now is digital radiography with the science and technology that comes with it. Radiographers must now have the knowledge of electronics clinical information system, in addition to medical knowledge. The work flow through PACS and similar software have made it more complicated this days.

So, now tell me why a radiographer would acquire all these education and you still conclude that the name change is just for prestige?

What is this man saying here?? Pls tell me is there any difference between computer radiography and digital radiography.

themall:

Dr Noel you will run foul of the law if you are found as - A Dangerous Practice Officer (DPO). If you are a radiologist you probably have theoretical knowledge and SOME clinical experience in the views and position in an procedure or examination. You are not a radiographer and you could easily go to jail.
Do not pass insidious misinformation to others in other to win an argument.
Big headed doctors who had a pass degree grade have caused a lot of problems for hospitals and patients by making assumptions out of ego and ignorance. Some doctors even claim to be experts in keeping hospital records. To them only the medical doctor have all the knowledge! It's a kind of inferiority complex. Radiographers too had to battle this notion.

That's why a Doctor will open his mouth and say "I ALSO A RADIOGRAPHER"

With all do respect sir. I do many radiographic examinations myself that our radiographers do usually do especially if I feel they won't do it the way that would help me interprete it. There are many examinations that require the presence of an experienced hand or radiologist to distinguish a normal from a pathologic substance. We all know that many of the examinations are operator dependent even the so called digital radiography you mentioned.
Also someone mentioned something about dark rooms and I just laughed. Pls the person should tell me what radiographic examinations apart from CT and MRI are not carried out in a dark room?

drnoel:


Outside nigeria radiography is a 3 year training, it is not even a course per say. In the Uk it is both a teaching and training course and one can do a masters after the Training. The prestige I spoke about was not meant to insult but was to explain that the difference between the phrase lab technician and the word radiography is a world apart. Then when one brings in the changes in technology involved in radiography toi will understand the name change was well deserved.

I don't understand what you mean by, "it is not even a course per say."
In the US, radiographer must undergo 5 semesters of clinical practicum through a school accredited by the regional Department of Higher Education. This could done in two years if the school includes a summer semester.
Schools award either certificate, Associate degree, Bachelors degree or Master degree depending on what program approval they have. These degrees is not a license to practice, it is just an academic degree. But the students all take the same Board exam at the end of studies to be licensed and they all receive the same license no matter the degree awarded by individual school. Schools must be accredited by the registry for their graduates to take the licensing exam.

riczy:
All doz imaging technique are done by same ppl------------radiographer/logist

Not really, there is a wide difference between a radiograhy and radiology.

sonnie10:


I don't understand what you mean by, "it is not even a course per say."
In the US, radiographer must undergo 5 semesters of clinical practicum through a school accredited by the regional Department of Higher Education. This could done in two years if the school includes a summer semester.
Schools award either certificate, Associate degree, Bachelors degree or Master degree depending on what program approval they have. But the students all take the same Board exam at the end to be licensed and given they receive the same license. Schools must be accredited by the registry for their graduates to take the licensing exam.

So you have said it all. A two year programme where the students are offered a diploma. It is same in the UK apart from they thrn have a 3 year programme which can either be teaching or just training. A normal university course is any subject studied for 4 years or more.

drnoel:


With all do respect sir. I do many radiographic examinations myself that our radiographers do usually do especially if I feel they won't do it the way that would help me interprete it. There are many examinations that require the presence of an experienced hand or radiologist so distinguish a normal from a pathologic substance. We all know that many of the examinations are operator dependent even the so called digital radiography you mentioned.
Also someone mentioned something about dark rooms and I just laughed. Pls the person should tell me what radiographic examinations apart from CT and MRI are not carried out in a dark room?

permit me to laugh at your assertions here sir!!!
if indeed you are a practising doctor then you are operating out of the corridor of your profession by carrying out radiographic procedures on your patients except for specials like MCU and HSG.
sir!! have you ever heard of digital radiography which involves patients X-ray films being stored In discs and sent for interpretation.
Radiography is way past the level of darkroom and the shallow knowledge you have of it!!!
my submission!!

drnoel:


So you have said it all. A two year programme where the students are offered a diploma. It is same in the UK apart from they thrn have a 3 year programme which can either be teaching or just training. A normal university course is any subject studied for 4 years or more.

In US, before you are accepted to study radiography, you must have spent about 2 years taking college level courses.

1) The requirement apart from electives and other general courses (prerequisites) include: Biology l , first semester year1 > Biology ll ,
second semester year 1. Then you proceed to;
Anatomy and physiology l , first semeter year ll > Anatomy and physiology ll second semester year ll

2) After which you are accepted into the radiology program. Then you spend another two years of five semesters including one summer
semester.

3) Then you graduate and start preparing for the board exam which might take another 3-6months. If you pass, you are then given and Initial
license to practice which you have to maintain for one year.

After that, you are then given a permanent license. So, when you add all of these, that would be 5 years plus, which is about that same number of years one would spend in a Nigeria University.

themall:

Dr Noel you will run foul of the law if you are found as - A Dangerous Practice Officer (DPO). If you are a radiologist you probably have theoretical knowledge and SOME clinical experience in the views and position in an procedure or examination. You are not a radiographer and you could easily go to jail.
Do not pass insidious misinformation to others in other to win an argument.
Big headed doctors who had a pass degree grade have caused a lot of problems for hospitals and patients by making assumptions out of ego and ignorance. Some doctors even claim to be experts in keeping hospital records. To them only the medical doctor have all the knowledge! It's a kind of inferiority complex. Radiographers too had to battle this notion.

That's why a Doctor will open his mouth and say "I ALSO A RADIOGRAPHER"

Yes you are right to accus doctors of pig headedness. I say this without convinction to the profession, I too have some level of such arrogance but have learnt the hardway from experience never to take up what I dont know within or outside my field. Doctors don't know it all but then again dont pass wrong information.

skimarvel:
i conclude your knowledge of RADIOGRAPHY is very shallow. Radiographers are not and will never be supervised by Radiologist. Radiographers concern themselves with producing the best representation of the patient (image) and radiologist concern themselves with interpretation of the image.. Nobody bosses nobody.
full private diagnostic centres have Chief Radiographers as the overall head.
Next time don't speak out of ignorance or the reflex to speak nonsense.

Thank God. Well done!

drnoel:



Also someone mentioned something about dark rooms and I just laughed. Pls the person should tell me what radiographic examinations apart from CT and MRI are not carried out in a dark room?

Wake up. We are in 2016 not 1874, everybody has moved on

drnoel:


What is this man saying here?? Pls tell me is there any difference between computer radiography and digital radiography.

You see why as a doctor, you can not afford to be a jack of all trade! I am surprised that as a doctor, you are not even aware that there is computer radiography (CR) which is very different from digital radiography (DR).

I don't know how to explain this in a layman's term but I will try. Computer radiography (CR) is a radiographic technique that uses a photostimulable phosphor as the image receptor while a digital radiography produces static images with a "fan xray" beam intercepted by a linear array of radiation detectors or a direct capture solid -state device.

skimarvel:
permit me to laugh at your assertions here sir!!!
if indeed you are a practising doctor then you are operating out of the corridor of your profession by carrying out radiographic procedures on your patients except for specials like MCU and HSG.
sir!! have you ever heard of digital radiography which involves patients X-ray films being stored In discs and sent for interpretation.
Radiography is way past the level of darkroom and the shallow knowledge you have of it!!!
my submission!!

You really are ignorant enough to ask me of digital radiography that is now getting obsolete. HSG is only allowed in gynaecology. IVP in nephrology. Have you heard of colonography, gastrography, phlebography, angiography, defecography, oesophagograhy. These are some of the examinations I meant when I said what I did. Am sure you thought I was talking of x rays. I leave those to the radiographers cos I cant find the time to do those. I mean when I have workloads of 30-50 CTs, about above 100 x rays and 10 to 15 MRIs a day then a few angigraphy and the rest I mentioned earlier which time will I have to start doing 100 x rays and be expected to interprete them? But still in cases where our radiographers run in difficulty e.g when a patient is difficult or when the examination is special depending on what is being looked for or depending on the clinical indication. They call me and I show them how it could be best done.

olowodaddy:

Wake up. We are in 2016 not 1874, everybody has moved on

The guy is so ignorant. In 2016, someone is still talking about darkroom. What he does not know is that some millennial (year 2000 and up) radiographers in the US have never seen a darkroom. This doctor must belong to the museums!

drnoel:


With all do respect sir. I do many radiographic examinations myself that our radiographers do usually do especially if I feel they won't do it the way that would help me interprete it. There are many examinations that require the presence of an experienced hand or radiologist to distinguish a normal from a pathologic substance. We all know that many of the examinations are operator dependent even the so called digital radiography you mentioned.
Also someone mentioned something about dark rooms and I just laughed. Pls the person should tell me what radiographic examinations apart from CT and MRI are not carried out in a dark room?

you can't be a doctor and be this ignorant as to happenings in the radiographic world...
Do you know student radiographers undergo 1year compulsory course in Morbid anatomy (PATHOLOGY) and PHARMACOLOGY?Sir the world has gone past the way you knew it.. Doctors no longer hold the monopoly to everything.
Be open to learning. it can only make you a better doctor (that's if you are one).

sonnie10:


You see why as a doctor, you can not afford to be a jack of all trade! I am surprised that as a doctor, you are not even aware that there is computer radiography (CR) which is very different from digital radiography (DR).

I don't know how to explain this in a layman's term but I will try. Computer radiography (CR) is a radiographic technique that uses a photostimulable phosphor as the image receptor while a digital radiography produces static images with a "fan xray" beam intercepted by a linear array of radiation detectors or a direct capture solid -state device.

The point of the question was not to have you explain what I know to me but to make find out what you knew of this subject you seem to be so passionate about. So you are a radiographer, still dont come here passing wrong information. I am a radiologist and I know radiographers depend on us alot just as we depend on them. Without radiographers we can't do our jobs to the full. I learn everyday from my radiographer colleagues and whenever an examination is unclear they come to me and I explain to them from a radiologists point of view. Also I heard you say radiologist dont oversee what radiographers do and dont agree with you there because I oversee what they do.

skimarvel:
you can't be a doctor and be this ignorant as to happenings in the radiographic world...
Do you know student radiographers undergo 1year compulsory course in Morbid anatomy (PATHOLOGY) and PHARMACOLOGY?Sir the world has gone past the way you knew it.. Doctors no longer hold the monopoly to everything.
Be open to learning. it can only make you a better doctor (that's if you are one).

I dont know where you go that idea from but I never said that. Pls read my comment again and clarify then pls come and appologise for such a comment.

drnoel:


With all do respect sir. I do many radiographic examinations myself that our radiographers do usually do especially if I feel they won't do it the way that would help me interprete it. There are many examinations that require the presence of an experienced hand or radiologist to distinguish a normal from a pathologic substance. We all know that many of the examinations are operator dependent even the so called digital radiography you mentioned.
Also someone mentioned something about dark rooms and I just laughed. Pls the person should tell me what radiographic examinations apart from CT and MRI are not carried out in a dark room?

Please explain further. YOU know radiographers too can interpret radiographic images. Also an experienced radiographer will often suggest better angles and views to the very experienced radiologist. But interpreting images and recording images needs different expertise and training while the education may be similar. It would be wrong for a radiographer to claim that since s/he can interpret radiographic images correctly, recognition as a radiologist is deserved. This is unethical.

So I hope you are not in any way compromising the ethics of radiation medicine regulation in your clinical practice and every Nairaland reader needs to notice this very comment by Dr. Noel.

WARNING
Whenever you are undergoing radiodiagnosis insist on the presence of a qualified personnel. If the radiologist says s/he is the qualified personnel take a note of it and ensure that the hospital is held liable for consequences such as repeats and injuries.
-
Of course in emergencies the opinion of a chief nurse (hope am right) can form the basis of a decision taken by a consultant. But the nurse is not a doctor. This attitude of some very arrogant doctors has worked negatively for the medical profession. While some doctors are very modest and humble others just make ignorant assumptions.

So Dr. Noel for the benefit of the youth and myself kindly explain further your post above, perhaps including benefits of the profession for those intending to enter the labour market

sonnie10:


The guy is so ignorant. In 2016, someone is still talking about darkroom. What he does not know is that some millennial (year 2000 and up) radiographers in the US have never seen a darkroom. This doctor must belong to the museums!

I think you misunderstood what that guy meant. Dark rooms are still used in radiology. Doctors in America use it too but its is no more used to develope inages as films are no more used. I mean why would one us films when the images can be burned on a CD or copied on a USB.
Now the dark rooms I mentioned earlier has to do with the radiologists office during image interpreting. Many colleagues of mine including myself feel more comfortable doing our dictations under very little illumination or in the cover of darkness or say wirh the lights off because it helps of see the images better. I have seen other people dictate under full light but then its like I said dependent on who is doing what.

hardbody:


Radiography does not enjoy an exclusivity on this. No qualified actuarial science person is jobless. Professionally qualified and certified actuaries are less 5 or so in the country.

oga I beg satin be actuarial science

There is no basis of comparison between. Radiologist and Radiographer.

Radiologist is a medical specialist (Diagnostic) not for everybody...beyond the scope of Radiographer.

drnoel:


The point of the question was not to have you explain what I know to me but to make find out what you knew of this subject you seem to be so passionate about. So you are a radiographer, still dont come here passing wrong information. I am a radiologist and I know radiographers depend on us alot just as we depend on them. Without radiographers we can't do our jobs to the full. I learn everyday from my radiographer colleagues and whenever an examination is unclear they come to me and I explain to them from a radiologists point of view. Also I heard you say radiologist dont oversee what radiographers do and dont agree with you there because I oversee what they do.

You have not pointed out what exactly the wrong information was, but don't let it slid because as a doctor you have the obligation to correct any misinformation for the benefit of the readers. Anyway, since you want to learn, I will tell you some advantages of digital radiography over computer radiography.

They have cell centers that allow radiation to be automatically cut off when it reaches a certain dose limit depending on the body part. This limits the amount of radiation to the patients. Digital radiography allows reprocessing and post processing of image so that you do not have to repeat exposures. Remember, repeat exposure is the most source of unnecessary patient radiation. It also allows "Substraction" so that that you are able to see the image in reverse contrast. You are also able to reconstruct an image using in built algorithm. Most importantly, the image appears instantly on the screen saving valuable time in case of emergency. With CR you can't do any of these.

themall:

Please explain further. YOU know radiographers too can interpret radiographic images. Also an experienced radiographer will often suggest better angles and views to the very experienced radiologist. But interpreting images and recording images needs different expertise and training while the education may be similar. It would be wrong for a radiographer to claim that since s/he can interpret radiographic images correctly, recognition as a radiologist is deserved. This is unethical.

So I hope you are not in any way compromising the ethics of radiation medicine regulation in your clinical practice and every Nairaland reader needs to notice this very comment by Dr. Noel.

WARNING
Whenever you are undergoing radiodiagnosis insist on the presence of a qualified personnel. If the radiologist says s/he is the qualified personnel take a note of it and ensure that the hospital is held liable for consequences such as repeats and injuries.
-
Of course in emergencies the opinion of a chief nurse (hope am right) can form the basis of a decision taken by a consultant. But the nurse is not a doctor. This attitude of some very arrogant doctors has worked negatively for the medical profession. While some doctors are very modest and humble others just make ignorant assumptions.

So Dr. Noel for the benefit of the youth and myself kindly explain further your post above, perhaps including benefits of the profession for those intending to enter the labour market

I won't be explaining anything about radiography cos I am not a radiographer. I have said that explicitly. I am very experienced in this area of medicine cos its my everyday doing. If you had asked me to explain about radiation medicine and radiology then its a different issue cos thats what I know but the technicalities of the equipement eludes me cos I didnt learn that in school and I repeat I am not a radiographer.
What the young ones should go home with is this. When in doubt ask a more experienced hand. Also pls let no one deceive you to tell you that radiologists dont oversee the works radiographers. It is a lie, radiologist oversee radiographers. What the radiographer should find out is what kind of doctor is that because the law only allows radiologists that right and not any kind of doctor.
Imagine a cardiologist overseeing a radiographer?
The.next thing they should remember is that no one person knows it all. Doctors are human being and make mistakes too.
Lastly because both professions are related they should.learn to leave together and try not to step on eachothers feet.

afanide:
@op is 99.9% CORRECT!


Did i hear someone say NO Medical Lab Science Student is JOBLESS?


Did you mean in US or NIGERIA here wey all of us dey?

Are you a med lab scientist?

drnoel:


I think you misunderstood what that guy meant. Dark rooms are still used in radiology. Doctors in America use it too but its is no more used to develope inages as films are no more used. I mean why would one us films when the images can be burned on a CD or copied on a USB.
Now the dark rooms I mentioned earlier has to do with the radiologists office during image interpreting. Many colleagues of mine including myself feel more comfortable doing our dictations under very little illumination or in the cover of darkness or say wirh the lights off because it helps of see the images better. I have seen other people dictate under full light but then its like I said dependent on who is doing what.

Then it is not called darkroom. You are talking about reading room which may be dark. Darkroom is a technical term in radiography and must be so used.

can 1 with a Nigerian degree in chemistry hons study radiography/industrial radiography..... and pls what d difference btw radiography and radiology. + requirements and how long....? duo am well grounded in nuclear science... ur answers wud be highly appreciated

drnoel:


Yes you are right to accus doctors of pig headedness. I say this without convinction to the profession, I too have some level of such arrogance but have learnt the hardway from experience never to take up what I dont know within or outside my field. Doctors don't know it all but then again dont pass wrong information.

Of course if there is any error in my posts that can be pointed out on Nairaland, please do not hesitate to throw light. But when you thought that you can confuse us with special procedures, you are seeing how your claims are being debunked and corrected.
I noticed the usual arrogance in your posts before your declaring you're a radiologist. I can't ascertain to your qualifications but am glad you are in agreement that a radiologist is not a radiographer, and one could face criminal and negligent charges in a law court. Medical Associations and Registration Councils have exerted ultimate penalties on medical officers even here in Nigeria. You may know of some examples during the time of Professor Olikoye Ransome Kuti as Nigeria's longest serving health minister.

drnoel:


You really are ignorant enough to ask me of digital radiography that is now getting obsolete. HSG is only allowed in gynaecology. IVP in nephrology. Have you heard of colonography, gastrography, phlebography, angiography, defecography, oesophagograhy. These are some of the examinations I meant when I said what I did. Am sure you thought I was talking of x rays. I leave those to the radiographers cos I cant find the time to do those. I mean when I have workloads of 30-50 CTs, about above 100 x rays and 10 to 15 MRIs a day then a few angigraphy and the rest I mentioned earlier which time will I have to start doing 100 x rays and be expected to interprete them? But still in cases where our radiographers run in difficulty e.g when a patient is difficult or when the examination is special depending on what is being looked for or depending on the clinical indication. They call me and I show them how it could be best done.

sir I practice in Luth and I tell you those examinations you mentioned are examinations that are carried out once in a blue moon with the exception of angiography and you sounded like the examinations were meant to be done by you .do away with your pride and realize that patient diagnosis doesn't rely solely on you again..nowadays doctors only make assumptions and send request forms that makes you wonder how lazy they have become!!

This thread is being derailed by some over sabi doctors. I don't think the op opened this thread to prove who is more superior between radiologists and radiographers, feel free to open another thread for that contest.
For now let's stick to enlightening the millions out there especially our jambites who can still benefit from the untapped potentials in Medical Radiography.

afanide:
@op is 99.9% CORRECT!


Did i hear someone say NO Medical Lab Science Student is JOBLESS?


Did you mean in US or NIGERIA here wey all of us dey?

Are you a med lab scientist?