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Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer - Religion - Nairaland

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Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by huxley(m): 4:43pm On Aug 24, 2009
Mark 4: 25: [/b]Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

[b]Matthew 13:12
"For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

Matthew 25:29
"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.

Luke 8:18 "So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him."

Luke 19:26 "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. "


What is Jesus talking about here? Would Jesus take away the break from the mouth of a poor child?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by Ben13: 5:31pm On Aug 24, 2009
why do you interprete the word of God so canally. Be in the spirit to get the real interpretation.
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by Tudor6(f): 6:37pm On Aug 24, 2009
Which one is be in the "spirit"?
You people sef!
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by petres007(m): 7:47pm On Aug 24, 2009
huxley:


Mark 4: 25: [/b]Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

[b]Matthew 13:12
"For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

Matthew 25:29
"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.

Luke 8:18 "So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him."

Luke 19:26 "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. "


What is Jesus talking about here?  Would Jesus take away the break from the mouth of a poor child?


Huxley,

What sort of crap is this? 

You lift verses out of context just to have something to slight Christ with? Jeez!

You remind me of Abuzola!  grin grin grin
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by huxley(m): 7:53pm On Aug 24, 2009
petres_007:

Huxley,

What sort of crap is this? 

You lift verses out of context just to have something to slight Christ with? Jeez!

You remind me of Abuzola!  grin grin grin

Ok, can you put this in context for us then?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by petres007(m): 8:50pm On Aug 24, 2009
huxley:

Ok, can you put this in context for us then?

No Huxley. Its no use. I'll just let you enjoy your little party grin
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by richjohn1(m): 9:39am On Aug 25, 2009
@petres_007
explain slowpoke don't run away, the verses are self explanatory dont cover up saying 'its no use' or 'out of context'
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by petres007(m): 11:14am On Aug 25, 2009
rich_john:

@petres_007
explain slowpoke don't run away, the verses are self explanatory dont cover up saying 'its no use' or 'out of context'

Take it easy.

If I know for sure that explaining this will do any good, I'll be more than happy to. But I know you guys are not interested in understanding, You already have your minds made up, and are clearly out to attack Christianity. That's why I didn't bother responding, because its like a game to you.

So I repeat, enjoy your little party! grin grin grin
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by JPot: 11:26am On Aug 25, 2009
First context GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. aka TALENTS

Second context HOLY SPIRIT, hold on tight to it.

Huxley you remind me of that one guy who thought that the snake in Genesis never had legs. That guy wrote up 100 or so of these unfounded alleged parodies just like yours on SkepticsBible.com

You guys make me laugh. Lol cheesy
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by huxley(m): 11:31am On Aug 25, 2009
petres_007:

Take it easy.

If I know for sure that explaining this will do any good, I'll be more than happy to. But I know you guys are not interested in understanding,  You already have your minds made up, and are clearly out to attack Christianity. That's why I didn't bother responding, because its like a game to you.

So I repeat,  enjoy your little party!  grin grin grin

What an easy excuse to not have to explain anything. Remember, I was only drawing attention to these pronouncements by Jesus - not about anything else. So if you are able to convince us of the reasonableness of these pronouncements, I shall withdraw my doubts about them and adopt you position with respect to the comments.

So over to you!
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by JPot: 11:36am On Aug 25, 2009
Do you ever read MacArthur, or a study Bible?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by huxley(m): 11:40am On Aug 25, 2009
JPot:

First context GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. aka TALENTS

Second context HOLY SPIRIT, hold on tight to it.

Huxley you remind me of that one guy who thought that the snake in Genesis never had legs. That guy wrote up 100 or so of these unfounded alleged parodies just like yours on SkepticsBible.com

You guys make me laugh. Lol cheesy

OK, let's look at what Jesus said:

He cleared said the "those that have in abundance to them shall more be given, but those that have not, even the little that they have shall be taken away".  I have three comments about this that I would like you to address:

1)   Can you put that in CONTEXT, whatever that may be?

2)   Can you give somes example of the sorts of things that more shall be given to those that already have in abundance?  Are these money, food, intelligence, talents, health, happiness, etc, etc?

3)  Can you give some examples of the sort of things that will be taken away from people who already have little of?  Are these things like food, intelligence, money, etc, etc?


Christians usually use the catch-all excuse "it is taken out of context" - now is your time to put some context into this.  Over to you!
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by JPot: 11:52am On Aug 25, 2009
In context:

Jesus starts a parable about sowing seeds (gospel of God)
He says seeds fall on different soil (different personalities/circumstances)
He says some seeds grow, others are stolen (by infamous Satan via doubt)
He says that some weeds grow up (things that separate us from God's will)
He says that in the end the sower reaps the harvest (God takes up the saved ones)

Jesus was saying that we should be aware of Satan's presence in our lives, and be diligent not to loose our life in Christ with the Holy Spirit. He says that the cares of the world (thorns/weeds) should not blot out our Christianity. He says that those who grow in Spirit and Truth will be given more life, but those who don't will wither away.

Make sense?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by petres007(m): 12:02pm On Aug 25, 2009
Ok Huxley, I was just about going offline now. Will post my explanations, hopefully later in the day when I get back. Cheers!
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by huxley(m): 12:09pm On Aug 25, 2009
JPot:

In context:

Jesus starts a parable about sowing seeds (gospel of God)
He says seeds fall on different soil (different personalities/circumstances)
He says some seeds grow, others are stolen (by infamous Satan via doubt)
He says that some weeds grow up (things that separate us from God's will)
He says that in the end the sower reaps the harvest (God takes up the saved ones)

Jesus was saying that we should be aware of Satan's presence in our lives, and be diligent not to loose our life in Christ with the Holy Spirit. He says that the cares of the world (thorns/weeds) should not blot out our Christianity. He says that those who grow in Spirit and Truth will be given more life, but those who don't will wither away.

Make sense?

Many thanks for you explanation. It seems OK until I ask the following questions:

Who is doing the giving and taking away? For instance, would the holy spirit take away the potential for people to grow in Spirit and Truth if they have only a little of this?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by JPot: 12:17pm On Aug 25, 2009
Are you saying it is wrong for the Holy Spirit to leave an inactive individual? It is His choice, is it not?

When a lamp runs out of fuel it burns out. If you have no drive for Christ, He has no drive for you, except that you should repent and start again.
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by richjohn1(m): 1:40pm On Aug 25, 2009
@jpot
what an absurd explanation!
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by Ogaga4Luv(m): 6:43pm On Aug 25, 2009
The Poster is 100% right and i dont think sillish respond's can go on here.
i just read someone reply among's the contributed post talking about"Being in the Spirit" or something like that.?

Even that's not all from our dear poster,sometime's i begin's to wonder about bible verse's and chapter's such as this:

Luke 6:30 "Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."

According to Luke 6:30 a true Christian must give you anything you ask for from them. If you take something, they are not allowed to ask for it back.

Try asking a Christian for their car, money or shoes and see if they follow Jesus' word. shocked Try taking something insignificant and quote Luke 6:30 if they ask for it back.


In full context:
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by Romeo4real(m): 6:53pm On Aug 25, 2009
@Huxley, i see ur contentious and dogmatic nature is still alive. This is a valid question though; if only you were asking for the purpose of comprehension and enlightenment - Unfortunately, due to your abrasive nature, i cannot even be bothered to do that.
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by petres007(m): 7:46pm On Aug 25, 2009
Huxley,

Here’s the entire passage for Mark 4:25 (verses 1-34) in Montgomery’s NT version. I think the verses you quoted are similar and I’ll just address the issue using this one verse. Please take your time. I implore you to please read the entire passage to get the full gist. My comments come after it. I’ve also emboldened verse 25.

1 Afterwards Jesus began to teach by the seaside, and a vast multitude of people gathered about him, so that he went on board a boat on the sea, and sat there, while all the people stayed on shore, at the water's edge.

2 Then he began teaching them in parables many things. In his teaching he said to them:

3 "Listen! the Sower once went out to sow,

4 and as he sowed, it happened that some seed fell on the road, and birds came and picked it up;

5 some other seed fell on stony soil, where it had not much earth; and it sprang up quickly because it had no depth of soil,

6 but when the sun rose it was scorched and withered away because it had no root.

7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked it, so that it yielded no crop.

8 But some seed fell into good soil and yielded a crop that sprang up and increased, yielding thirty, sixty, or a hundredfold.

9 "Any one who has ears to hear," he added, "let him listen to this."

10 When he was alone his followers and the Twelve began asking about the parables.

11 He went on to say to them: "The secret truth concerning the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those outside everything is told in parables,

12 so that, /@ "for all their looking they may not see, and for all their hearing, they may not understand, lest perchance they should turn and be pardoned./@

13 "You do not understand this parable," said Jesus. "Then how will you understand the other parables?

14 "What the Sower sows is the Word. There are those 'on the wayside' where the Word is sown.

15 As soon as they hear it, Satan immediately comes and snatches away the Word which has been sown in them.

16 And like the sowing upon 'stony ground' are those who, whenever they hear the Word, at once receive it with joy,

17 but because they have no root in themselves they last for a time; but when suffering or persecution ensues because of the Word, they at once fall away.

18 There are others who are 'sown among thorns.'

19 When they have heard the Word, the anxieties of life and the snares of wealth, and all sorts of other ambitions, come in to choke the Word, so that it proves unfruitful.

20 But those, on the other hand, who were sown on that good soil, are those who listen to the Word, and welcome it, and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, or a hundredfold."

21 He went on to say: "Is the lamp brought in to be put under the bushel or the bed? Is it not rather to be put on the lamp-stand?

22 There is nothing hidden except what is to be disclosed, and nothing concealed except what is to be revealed.

23 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear."

24 And he said to them: "Take heed what you hear: With what measure you measure it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you.

25 For he who holds, to him will more be given, and he who holds not, from him will be taken even what he holds."

26 "It is with the kingdom of God," he continued, "as if a man should have sown seed in the earth;

27 night and day he sleeps and wakes while the seed is sprouting and growing tall, he knows not how.

28 Of its own accord the earth bears its crops; first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.

29 Then as soon as the crop is ready the man has the sickle put in at once, because harvest-time is come.

30 "To what shall we compare the kingdom of God?" he said again. "In what parable shall we set it forth?

31 It is like a mustard-seed, which, when sown in the soil, is the smallest seed in the world;

32 yet when sown shoots up and becomes larger than any plant, sending out such branches that the wild birds build their nests under its shadow."

33 With many such illustrations Jesus used to tell his message to people as far as they were able to receive it;

34 and to them it was his practice never to speak except in parables. But he used to explain everything in private to his disciples.


My comment: cool

The very first thing you should notice if you read this passage is that Jesus wasn’t talking about material things/money. He wasn’t talking about making the poor richer or the rich poorer… or anything like that cheesy

The comments he made here immediately followed his famous “Parable of the Sower” and should be interpreted in that context. And what was the parable of the sower about? The word of God! The truth of God’s word! So when he talked about “whoever has will be given more… and whoever doesn’t, even that he has will be taken from him” he wasn’t talking about material things/money like you’ve supposed.

When he said “he that hath” he was referring to the person who’s learned or received his word and treasures it, makes effort to grow in it and live by it – that this person will increase, not materially/money-wise, but in the knowledge of the truth. But the “he that hath not” is the person who after receiving the word neglects it, is inattentive, or if I can put it this way, does not make effort to improve on himself/grow, will lose the little he had. A good example of this is given in the parable of the Sower, in verses 4-6 of the passage I quoted above:

4 and as he sowed, it happened that some seed fell on the road, and birds came and picked it up;

5 some other seed fell on stony soil, where it had not much earth; and it sprang up quickly because it had no depth of soil,

6 but when the sun rose it was scorched and withered away because it had no root.

In many other scriptures, believers are strongly urged to make every effort to “grow in grace” or “grow in the knowledge of the gospel”. This passage doesn’t stand alone in this matter.

I’m not very good at writing but really hope I’ve been able to at least disprove your accusation that Jesus was “endorsing making the rich richer and the poor poorer”. Its so absurd to even think that, if you know even just a little of the gospel, which before now, I thought you and the others like Tudor did, judging from the way you guys speak against these con men.

But now I know otherwise. [/b]Having read your accusation in this thread, [b]its obvious you guys don’t know any better than our current crop of “men of gods” who twist the scriptures to preach all sort of crap.

I say this because this is exactly how they do it too – by lifting verses out of their proper context, misreading the text in question, twisting the point the scripture is trying to pass across or a combination of all three. cheesy

Come to think of it, I was talking with a popular member of this forum on Sunday and amidst what he was saying mentioned that “…Huxley seems to know the bible”. You just proved him wrong with this thread. This your taking a verse out of context like I said earlier, seems quite “Abuzolaish”. cheesy cheesy cheesy

I think it will be safe to conclude that you guys are not really looking for answers… just out to ridicule Christianity. This thread is too much evidence.

And em… I promise not to crash your party again. I promise! The next time any of you guys starts a thread like this, I think I’ll just ignore it like most other Christians here.

Cheers! cheesy cheesy cheesy

And good luck with your God/Christianity bashing! cheesy cheesy cheesy
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by huxley(m): 8:14pm On Aug 25, 2009
petres_007:

Huxley,

Here’s the entire passage for Mark 4:25 (verses 1-34) in Montgomery’s NT version. I think the verses you quoted are similar and I’ll just address the issue using this one verse. Please take your time. I implore you to please read the entire passage to get the full gist. My comments come after it. I’ve also emboldened verse 25.

1 Afterwards Jesus began to teach by the seaside, and a vast multitude of people gathered about him, so that he went on board a boat on the sea, and sat there, while all the people stayed on shore, at the water's edge.

2 Then he began teaching them in parables many things. In his teaching he said to them:

3 "Listen! the Sower once went out to sow,

4 and as he sowed, it happened that some seed fell on the road, and birds came and picked it up;

5 some other seed fell on stony soil, where it had not much earth; and it sprang up quickly because it had no depth of soil,

6 but when the sun rose it was scorched and withered away because it had no root.

7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked it, so that it yielded no crop.

8 But some seed fell into good soil and yielded a crop that sprang up and increased, yielding thirty, sixty, or a hundredfold.

9 "Any one who has ears to hear," he added, "let him listen to this."

10 When he was alone his followers and the Twelve began asking about the parables.

11 He went on to say to them: "The secret truth concerning the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those outside everything is told in parables,

12 so that, /@ "for all their looking they may not see, and for all their hearing, they may not understand, lest perchance they should turn and be pardoned./@

13 "You do not understand this parable," said Jesus. "Then how will you understand the other parables?

14 "What the Sower sows is the Word. There are those 'on the wayside' where the Word is sown.

15 As soon as they hear it, Satan immediately comes and snatches away the Word which has been sown in them.

16 And like the sowing upon 'stony ground' are those who, whenever they hear the Word, at once receive it with joy,

17 but because they have no root in themselves they last for a time; but when suffering or persecution ensues because of the Word, they at once fall away.

18 There are others who are 'sown among thorns.'

19 When they have heard the Word, the anxieties of life and the snares of wealth, and all sorts of other ambitions, come in to choke the Word, so that it proves unfruitful.

20 But those, on the other hand, who were sown on that good soil, are those who listen to the Word, and welcome it, and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, or a hundredfold."

21 He went on to say: "Is the lamp brought in to be put under the bushel or the bed? Is it not rather to be put on the lamp-stand?

22 There is nothing hidden except what is to be disclosed, and nothing concealed except what is to be revealed.

23 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear."

24 And he said to them: "Take heed what you hear: With what measure you measure it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you.

25 For he who holds, to him will more be given, and he who holds not, from him will be taken even what he holds."

26 "It is with the kingdom of God," he continued, "as if a man should have sown seed in the earth;

27 night and day he sleeps and wakes while the seed is sprouting and growing tall, he knows not how.

28 Of its own accord the earth bears its crops; first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.

29 Then as soon as the crop is ready the man has the sickle put in at once, because harvest-time is come.

30 "To what shall we compare the kingdom of God?" he said again. "In what parable shall we set it forth?

31 It is like a mustard-seed, which, when sown in the soil, is the smallest seed in the world;

32 yet when sown shoots up and becomes larger than any plant, sending out such branches that the wild birds build their nests under its shadow."

33 With many such illustrations Jesus used to tell his message to people as far as they were able to receive it;

34 and to them it was his practice never to speak except in parables. But he used to explain everything in private to his disciples.


My comment: cool

The very first thing you should notice if you read this passage is that Jesus wasn’t talking about material things/money. He wasn’t talking about making the poor richer or the rich poorer… or anything like that cheesy

The comments he made here immediately followed his famous “Parable of the Sower” and should be interpreted in that context. And what was the parable of the sower about? The word of God! The truth of God’s word! So when he talked about “whoever has will be given more… and whoever doesn’t, even that he has will be taken from him” he wasn’t talking about material things/money like you’ve supposed.

When he said “he that hath” he was referring to the person who’s learned or received his word and treasures it, makes effort to grow in it and live by it – that this person will increase, not materially/money-wise, but in the knowledge of the truth. But the “he that hath not” is the person who after receiving the word neglects it, is inattentive, or if I can put it this way, does not make effort to improve on himself/grow, will lose the little he had. A good example of this is given in the parable of the Sower, in verses 4-6 of the passage I quoted above:

4 and as he sowed, it happened that some seed fell on the road, and birds came and picked it up;

5 some other seed fell on stony soil, where it had not much earth; and it sprang up quickly because it had no depth of soil,

6 but when the sun rose it was scorched and withered away because it had no root.

In many other scriptures, believers are strongly urged to make every effort to “grow in grace” or “grow in the knowledge of the gospel”. This passage doesn’t stand alone in this matter.

I’m not very good at writing but really hope I’ve been able to at least disprove your accusation that Jesus was “endorsing making the rich richer and the poor poorer”. Its so absurd to even think that, if you know even just a little of the gospel, which before now, I thought you and the others like Tudor did, judging from the way you guys speak against these con men.

But now I know otherwise. [/b]Having read your accusation in this thread, [b]its obvious you guys don’t know any better than our current crop of “men of gods” who twist the scriptures to preach all sort of crap.

I say this because this is exactly how they do it too – by lifting verses out of their proper context, misreading the text in question, twisting the point the scripture is trying to pass across or a combination of all three. cheesy

Come to think of it, I was talking with a popular member of this forum on Sunday and amidst what he was saying mentioned that “…Huxley seems to know the bible”. You just proved him wrong with this thread. This your taking a verse out of context like I said earlier, seems quite “Abuzolaish”. cheesy cheesy cheesy

I think it will be safe to conclude that you guys are not really looking for answers… just out to ridicule Christianity. This thread is too much evidence.

And em… I promise not to crash your party again. I promise! The next time any of you guys starts a thread like this, I think I’ll just ignore it like most other Christians here.

Cheers! cheesy cheesy cheesy

And good luck with your God/Christianity bashing! cheesy cheesy cheesy


Hello,

Thanks for the detail response - I appreciate that and I do agree with the way you have "put it in context." It was bot that I was totally unaware of the context, but what worried me is that last few words of the verses I posted, ie, the bits highlighted below:

24 And he said to them: "Take heed what you hear: With what measure you measure it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you.

25 For he who holds, to him will more be given, and he who holds not, from him will be taken even what he holds."


This suggests that SOMEONE is deliberately taking something (whatever that may be) from someone who ONLY has a little. Who is doing the taking away? Where is the cut-off level below which you will have things taken away from you, and above which you have things added to you?

Imagine, you first become a christian. You would be somewhere below that cut-off point. How long would Jesus (or whoever) wait before he begins to take things away from you? In fact, why would Jesus even have to wait? Does he not already know how you are going to turn out, given his omniscience?


I appreciate your response - now could you consider your response again in view of these comments?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by petres007(m): 8:56pm On Aug 25, 2009
huxley:

Hello,

Thanks for the detail response - I appreciate that and I do agree with the way you have "put it in context." It was bot that I was totally unaware of the context, but what worried me is that last few words of the verses I posted, ie, the bits highlighted below:

24 And he said to them: "Take heed what you hear: With what measure you measure it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you.

25 For he who holds, to him will more be given, and he who holds not, from him will be taken even what he holds."


This suggests that SOMEONE is deliberately taking something (whatever that may be) from someone who ONLY has a little. Who is doing the taking away? Where is the cut-off level below which you will have things taken away from you, and above which you have things added to you?

Imagine, you first become a christian. You would be somewhere below that cut-off point. How long would Jesus (or whoever) wait before he begins to take things away from you? In fact, why would Jesus even have to wait? Does he not already know how you are going to turn out, given his omniscience?


I appreciate your response - now could you consider your response again in view of these comments?

Mr. Huxley,

I've answered your "question" and thanks for admitting that. However, I do not see how answering this next one will help you, as this is not what you need! And I'm sure if I answered this one now, you'll come up with another one, and on and on. For me, its a waste of time.

And no, don't think I "don't know what to say". Just don't see any point.

Cheers!
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by JPot: 9:42pm On Aug 25, 2009
Mr. Huxley you are entering the lava grounds of Christianity!

Feel the thrill? I do! I love it.  smiley

Your question was:
This suggests that SOMEONE is deliberately taking something (whatever that may be) from someone who ONLY has a little.   Who is doing the taking away?  Where is the cut-off level below which you will have things taken away from you, and above which you have things added to you?

Imagine, you first become a christian.  You would be somewhere below that cut-off point.  How long would Jesus (or whoever) wait before he begins to take things away from you?  In fact, why would Jesus even have to wait?  Does he not already know how you are going to turn out, given his omniscience?

Let's put it this way, God gives salvation to all, and takes it away from those who could care less about Him. The cut-off point is when a person stops caring, or even feeling guilty about his/her actions. When a person could care less about God's Word, doesn't feel condemned by it, and would even mock the Word - You can rightfully say that this is the cut-off point. Anywhere before this point, the Holy Spirit is still working in the person, and the person is on His way to salvation.

For example: A person was given some little advice, a little sermon, or some passage of Scripture and didn't react in a positive way AT ALL, even after the continuation of his entire lifespan, he is still unaffected by those words. So he loses that little bit of truth that he had, DUE TO HIS OWN IGNORANCE AND VANITY. God takes away the possibility of salvation, DUE TO HIS OWN IGNORANCE AND VANITY.

Now about predetermination,  This is a question that is commonly asked by atheists/skeptics and I was literally waiting for it to come out of your funnel.

Does God make actions now, based on what He knows will happen later? Well let's look at some examples:

[list]
[li]He saw Judas Iscariot as a willing disciple who would follow Him faithfully NOW. Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him LATER. What did Jesus do?[/li]
[li]He saw the 10 lepers on the road begging for help, ready to kiss His feet if it meant that they would be healed NOW. Jesus knew that only one of them would return and thank Him LATER. What did Jesus do?[/li]
[li]God chose Abraham to be the lineage for His nation NOW. God saw what Abraham's children would do in the wilderness, and how they would continually forsake Him LATER. What did God do?[/li]
[li]Lets get more specific,  God made man NOW. God knew that man would reject Him, and He would have to send His only son to die on a stick to save man LATER. What did God do?[/li]
[/list]


So your answer is, yes God knows the results of this great chess game. But He doesn't make the choices for you, or change anything in the present just to make the future right. This is His standard of righteousness. Its His way of remaining blameless for our actions.

Get it?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by henriaken: 3:04pm On Sep 09, 2023
huxley:


Hello,

Thanks for the detail response - I appreciate that and I do agree with the way you have "put it in context." It was bot that I was totally unaware of the context, but what worried me is that last few words of the verses I posted, ie, the bits highlighted below:

24 And he said to them: "Take heed what you hear: With what measure you measure it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you.

25 For he who holds, to him will more be given, and he who holds not, from him will be taken even what he holds."


This suggests that SOMEONE is deliberately taking something (whatever that may be) from someone who ONLY has a little. Who is doing the taking away? Where is the cut-off level below which you will have things taken away from you, and above which you have things added to you?

Imagine, you first become a christian. You would be somewhere below that cut-off point. How long would Jesus (or whoever) wait before he begins to take things away from you? In fact, why would Jesus even have to wait? Does he not already know how you are going to turn out, given his omniscience?


I appreciate your response - now could you consider your response again in view of these comments?


Hello, huxley

i'm New here, so i don't really know how to Navigate some stuffs yet, But i just have correct some notions here about God taking away his Salvation, if God takes away his Salvation you won't have the liberty to do some stuffs we do, because that suggests that God is not ALL LOVING like i know him to be, God's Salvation is constant, always there for you at every point, we humans are the ones that leaves the presence of his Salvation, Some do because of Guilt, while some do because they were not directed properly that works in consonance with their "understanding co-efficient" and pattern thus making us call them Atheists.

In Conclusion, God's salvation never leaves us, we leave his presence when we remain in sin.
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by Dtruthspeaker: 3:27pm On Sep 09, 2023
henriaken:



Hello, huxley

i'm New here, so i don't really know how to Navigate some stuffs yet, But i just have correct some notions here about God taking away his Salvation, if God takes away his Salvation you won't have the liberty to do some stuffs we do, because that suggests that God is not ALL LOVING like i know him to be, God's Salvation is constant, always there for you at every point, we humans are the ones that leaves the presence of his Salvation, Some do because of Guilt, while some do because they were not directed properly that works in consonance with their "understanding co-efficient" and pattern thus making us call them Atheists.

In Conclusion, God's salvation never leaves us, we leave his presence when we remain in sin.

You think he does not know that you had to regurgitate a 2009 madness?
Re: Jesus Endorses Making The Rich Richer And The Poor Poorer by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:43pm On Sep 09, 2023
huxley:

Mark 4: 25: [/b]Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."
What is Jesus talking about here? Would Jesus take away the break from the mouth of a poor child?

Jesus never took any material possession from anyone but as for the understanding of God's word Jesus took it away from self-centered religious leaders of his day and gave it his disciples.
The Pharisees were rich materially speaking but they're empty when it comes to the understanding of God's word due to their arrogance. Jesus was always with his humble disciples so they have everything they need regarding the knowledge of God as Christ who is the word of God is always with them.

So since the Pharisees failed to humble themselves and learn from Jesus even the little things they're able to read in the Bible they won't know the indepth meaning while Jesus' disciples who have Jesus with them are getting all the informations they need for salvation!

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