maureeoy:
is there a number to reach u?

Yes.. Chat me up on whatsapp.. 07087144519...

SycophanticGoat:


That will then depend on the number of hours you will like to power each of your appliances pa day. State the number of hours and I will go further with my calculations..

24 hours a day would be ideal

Thanks

mmsen:
Great thread and great username OP.

This thread needs to be permanently stuck to the front page.

Thanks bro..

If you run a 1.5KVA you'll loading the inverter to over & 70% capacity, to preserve the lifespan of the inverter, it's better to go for a 2kVA especially if the light bulbs are 60W

SycophanticGoat:


For the items listed, even 1.5Kva will do the trick but I will always advice people to go for higher inverters in case they'd wanna increase load in the future. Your TV should not be more than 350w, if the bulbs are energy efficient then let's peg their total wattage at 40w (some bulbs are as low as 3w), laptops usually are rated about 50-70w. Let me peg yours at 70 each, means total will be 140w for two laptops. Modern fridge should not be more than 300-400w. Total power rating is about 940w, let's say, max of 1,000W (1KW). Dividing this value by 0.8 will convert the Wattage to Va. This equals to 1,250Va (1.25KVa). Adding 20% for surge, we will have 1,500Va (1.5KVa)

In terms of battery capacity needed, will get back to you..

For cost..

Batteries cost between 70something to 100K for Indian products but will cost higher for American brands.
Inverter (2.5KVa) will cost about 60 - 90K

oh okay, still wondering why you aren't going for an mppt controller though

SycophanticGoat:


I use 2 of 300W solar panels with a 50Amps charge controller

YoursGEJ:


24 hours a day would be ideal

Thanks

LoL.. Lemme help you out in a more conservative manner.. You can only address this as if tho, you're preparing for the night. Reason is, your batteries gets charged mostly during the day and even when you use power then, the panels may be sufficient to charge your batteries and still deliver your current for your load. So I will say about 15 hours is perfect for this analysis.

Multiplying the time by power, we get 1,000W * 15hours = 15,000Wh
Assuming you'll probably be having only small amounts of sunshine daily, then we can divide by 4h pa day. However, in hotter/very sunny regions, we will divide the value by 6h. So let us use 5hours: 15,000Wh ÷ 5h = 3,000W of panels (3000W is such a huge number and you'd need at least, 12-14 of 300W to give you something close to that value if you'all be using a PMW controller although not advisable to use PMW with such array) . So the idea here is, the more then number of hours you expect to use your system pa day, the higher the wattage of your solar array.

If I were to carry out this analysis for a client, I'd def use 12 hours maximum, for my analysis instead of 24hours.

For batteries..
Since our total watt-hour is 15,000Wh, we'll have to divide this value with the voltage of the entire system. If you'll go with a 24V system, then 15,000Wh ÷ 24V = 625Ah. Now to ensure your battery bank last long in service, we multiply this value by 2 (this prevents usage beyond 50%). Hence, 625 × 2 = 1,250Ah. Let's just take it to the nearest 200. So we have 1,400Ah.

Mind you, batteries are usually rated as 12V so a parallel connection will give you 24V. Therefore, you need 14 of 200Ah batteries connected in series and parallel to give you 1,400Ah.

Even apart from night time, there are times during the day where for about 10 to 30mins, the clouds get in the way of the sun's rays, meaning the generated electricity would drop during such a period and without a battery to step in, a system of such design wouldn't be effective at all.

SycophanticGoat:


As a matter of fact, this is possible. You can use solar panels, charge controller and inverter without battery backup. The major drawback is that you can only use such during the day when there's enough rays to go from the panel to your household appliances. In Nigeria, we mostly depend on power at nights so it's basically useless here without the batteries. In developed countries, people mount solar equipment for feed into the grid while they get paid for it. Those people do switch to solar power whenever they want to do some heavy stuff during the day, thereby reducing their utility bills.

Lanjonath:
If you run a 1.5KVA you'll loading the inverter to over & 70% capacity, to preserve the lifespan of the inverter, it's better to go for a 2kVA especially if the light bulbs are 60W

Really? Cool I learnt this. But I don't really think I can load it that much. This means that I should have been OK with the initial 850Va I bought before...

Lanjonath:
oh okay, still wondering why you aren't going for an mppt controller though

Price of MPPT is crazy bro! 50Amps of even a Chinese one can get me two 200Ah batteries..

Lanjonath:
Even apart from night time, there are times during the day where for about 10 to 30mins, the clouds get in the way of the sun's rays, meaning the generated electricity would drop during such a period and without a battery to step in, a system of such design wouldn't be effective at all.

True! That's why most people who do such, sell to the grid directly from the panel, without needing controllers, batteries or inverters. But big drawback is, whenever the grid supply goes off, the person's power goes with it..

Lol..yh it's expensive but worth it. It brings out the best from your panels and the main advantage is it charges your batteries way better. Most batteries break down quickly when the charger isn't efficient nd thats why I shy away from pwm coz most of em are cheap products with no brand name.

Buh mppt's are sick bro, it'll let you know what you're generating, the current, State of charge of the battery and everything. And there's this product I use, Ep-solar i-Tracer (LCD Version), It goes the extra mile to equalize your batteries on the 28th of every month. will upload some pics, buh trust me it's a worth while investment. Buh make sure you install a breaker to protect help it from burnouts.

SycophanticGoat:


Really? Cool I learnt this. But I don't really think I can load it that much. This means that I should have been OK with the initial 850Va I bought before...



Price of MPPT is crazy bro! 50Amps of even a Chinese one can get me two 200Ah batteries..

Some Solar Project I've done

Lanjonath:
Some Solar Project I've done

So like how much will mppt (i-tracer) with the following ratings cost: 50amps, 60amps, 80A and 100A? Also, how do you cope with too steep a roof? How do you install panels in such roofs? Mine is almost flat so I didn't have a problem climbing it..

What batteries do you install for clients that last pretty long in service...?

Also, can one get an inverter that will allow a user set usage values (from the battery bank) to say 50, 60, or 70%?

SycophanticGoat:


LoL.. Lemme help you out in a more conservative manner.. You can only address this as if tho, you're preparing for the night. Reason is, your batteries gets charged mostly during the day and even when you use power then, the panels may be sufficient to charge your batteries and still deliver your current for your load. So I will say about 15 hours is perfect for this analysis.

Multiplying the time by power, we get 1,000W * 15hours = 15,000Wh
Assuming you'll probably be having only small amounts of sunshine daily, then we can divide by 4h pa day. However, in hotter/very sunny regions, we will divide the value by 6h. So let us use 5hours: 15,000Wh ÷ 5h = 3,000W of panels (3000W is such a huge number and you'd need at least, 12-14 of 300W to give you something close to that value if you'all be using a PMW controller although not advisable to use PMW with such array) . So the idea here is, the more then number of hours you expect to use your system pa day, the higher the wattage of your solar array.

If I were to carry out this analysis for a client, I'd def use 12 hours maximum, for my analysis instead of 24hours.

For batteries..
Since our total watt-hour is 15,000Wh, we'll have to divide this value with the voltage of the entire system. If you'll go with a 24V system, then 15,000Wh ÷ 24V = 625Ah. Now to ensure your battery bank last long in service, we multiply this value by 2 (this prevents usage beyond 50%). Hence, 625 × 2 = 1,250Ah. Let's just take it to the nearest 200. So we have 1,400Ah.

Mind you, batteries are usually rated as 12V so a parallel connection will give you 24V. Therefore, you need 14 of 200Ah batteries connected in series and parallel to give you 1,400Ah.

That seems like a lot but I understand how you got the figures. Thanks for the calculations.

YoursGEJ:


That seems like a lot but it I understand how you got the figures. Thanks for the calculations.

That is why you have to be very conservative in this area and also be careful during usage otherwise, if you wanna capture all you want to use, you may break the bank for solar power. The fact is, you can't run your TV for 24hours, many people don't watch TV for more than 4-6h a day, you can't run your bulb from night till morning and morning till night. You may only use it for say 4-5 hours 7 - 11pm. You may only use your laptop for about 4h a night, except you're a work at home person. Etc.. When you check the real time you may spend in conservative usage of your appliances, then we can recalculate your solar power requirements...

SycophanticGoat:


That is why you have to be very conservative in this area and also be careful during usage otherwise, if you wanna capture all you want to use, you may break the bank for solar power. The fact is, you can't run your TV for 24hours, many people don't watch TV for more than 4-6h a day, you can't run your bulb from night till morning and morning till night. You may only use it for say 4-5 hours 7 - 11pm. You may only use your laptop for about 4h a night, except you're a work at home person. Etc.. When you check the real time you may spend in conservative usage of your appliances, then we can recalculate your solar power requirements...

It is true that all appliances won't be on 24/7. Didn't think of that. A more realistic estimate will be perhaps 8,000W per day. I think using an MPPT charge controller instead of PWM will also help

The Max for the i-tracer I've seen is 60A, nd that costs N155K.

As for batteries I'll be honest with you, Indian batteries are the best, but even at that a lot of batteries get damaged during shipping, some wear quickly when they aren't charged efficiently or are frequently discharged to 30%, you can only tell if a battery is good after using it for about 4 months, best is to get one that comes with 1 year warranty, so you know if anything goes bad you'll get a brand new one without spending a dime. I use M-Power (Gel-Lead Acid Hybrid) it's very good and comes with 1 year warranty and also Fullriver, FullRiver is my no.1 choice buh it's a bit pricey and it also comes with Warranty. Mercury is also not bad but there's no warranty on it, so I only use it on request. I have a client who has use the FullRiver batteries for about 2years and 4 Months, sure the backup time has reduced coz of the aging battery buh on an average(On a Sunny Day) he still gets 20 hours daily. I installed 4 Batteries and 8 250W Poly-Crystalline Panels for him with a 2.5KV Inverter.

As for the inverter it's not like you can't load it over 70%, but inverters loaded over 70% are more fault prone so personally I dont advise it, keeping it under 70% helps prolong the inverters lifespan.

For the steep roof, what I do with all my installations is to install the panels on a mounting rail, that also helps improve its efficiency. So the rail is attached to the roof and the solar panels are mounted on the rails. See attached pics.

SycophanticGoat:


So like how much will mppt (i-tracer) with the following ratings cost: 50amps, 60amps, 80A and 100A? Also, how do you cope with too steep a roof? How do you install panels in such roofs? Mine is almost flat so I didn't have a problem climbing it..

What batteries do you install for clients that last pretty long in service...?

Also, can one get an inverter that will allow a user set usage values (from the battery bank) to say 50, 60, or 70%?

YoursGEJ:


It is true that all appliances won't be on 24/7. Didn't think of that. A more realistic estimate will be perhaps 8,000W per day. I think using an MPPT charge controller instead of PWM will also help

Yes.. So now I believe you can do the calculations yourself right?

Lanjonath:
The Max for the i-tracer I've seen is 60A, nd that costs N155K.
As for batteries I'll be honest with you, Indian batteries are the best, but even at that a lot of batteries get damaged during shipping, some wear quickly when they aren't charged efficiently or are frequently discharged to 30%, you can only tell if a battery is good after using it for about 4 months, best is to get one that comes with 1 year warranty, so you know if anything goes bad you'll get a brand new one without spending a dime. I use M-Power (Gel-Lead Acid Hybrid) it's very good and comes with 1 year warranty and also Fullriver, FullRiver is my no.1 choice buh it's a bit pricey and it also comes with Warranty. Mercury is also not bad but there's no warranty on it, so I only use it on request.
As for the inverter it's not like you can't load it over 70%, but inverters loaded over 70% are more fault prone so personally I dont advise it, keeping it under 70% helps prolong the inverters liespan

Wow! This was quit helpful but do kindly give a probable estimate of battery prices (the ones you mentioned apart from Mercury which I know the price range). Also, have you ever come across the type of inverter I asked you about?

On the charge controller, since mostly, controllers aren't connected to the inverters, how can one regulate battery usage?

Is it possible connecting the load section of charge controllers to inverters rather than connecting the inverter directly to the battery bank?

Lanjonath:
The Max for the i-tracer I've seen is 60A, nd that costs N155K.

As for batteries I'll be honest with you, Indian batteries are the best, but even at that a lot of batteries get damaged during shipping, some wear quickly when they aren't charged efficiently or are frequently discharged to 30%, you can only tell if a battery is good after using it for about 4 months, best is to get one that comes with 1 year warranty, so you know if anything goes bad you'll get a brand new one without spending a dime. I use M-Power (Gel-Lead Acid Hybrid) it's very good and comes with 1 year warranty and also Fullriver, FullRiver is my no.1 choice buh it's a bit pricey and it also comes with Warranty. Mercury is also not bad but there's no warranty on it, so I only use it on request. I have a client who has use the FullRiver batteries for about 2years and 4 Months, sure the backup time has reduced coz of the aging battery buh on an average(On a Sunny Day) he still gets 20 hours daily. I installed 4 Batteries and 8 250W Poly-Crystalline Panels for him with a 2.5KV Inverter.

As for the inverter it's not like you can't load it over 70%, but inverters loaded over 70% are more fault prone so personally I dont advise it, keeping it under 70% helps prolong the inverters lifespan.

For the steep roof, what I do with all my installations is to install the panels on a mounting rail, that also helps improve its efficiency. So the rail is attached to the roof and the solar panels are mounted on the rails. See attached pics.

On the bolded.. I guess you didn't get what I meant.. I read that batteries last longer in service when discharged less. For example, a battery that's always discharged below 50% is likely not to last as long as that which never gets discharged beyond 50%. So I thought to myself, if that is the case, then why aren't there inverters that can be set never to drain the battery beyond 50% or 60% or 70% since this practice (especially 70% charge after usage-30% discharge) will make the batteries last longer..

Yh sure, I do the calculations myself. Batteries right now cost over N85k to be honest. ABout the regulating the battery usage, I feel the best thing is to have an inverter that has LCD display and moniter the battery levels, also switching off unnecessary equipment really goes a long way.

No you wont be able to connect the load directly to the controller because the controllers output is in DC. That's why if you notice on the charge controller display I posted right part reads 0.00A.

which inverter are you talking about? nd P.S I edited the earlier post you quoted and included some things

SycophanticGoat:


Yes.. So now I believe you can do the calculations yourself right?



Wow! This was quit helpful but do kindly give a probable estimate of battery prices (the ones you mentioned apart from Mercury which I know the price range). Also, have you ever come across the type of inverter I asked you about?

On the charge controller, since mostly, controllers aren't connected to the inverters, how can one regulate battery usage?

Is it possible connecting the load section of charge controllers to inverters rather than connecting the inverter directly to the battery bank?

Oh honestly I have no idea why they aren't, but no I've never heard or worked with such inverters, the only thing about the battery I know can be adjusted on some inverters is the charging current

SycophanticGoat:


On the bolded.. I guess you didn't get what I meant.. I read that batteries last longer in service when discharged less. For example, a battery that's always discharged below 50% is likely not to last as long as that which never gets discharged beyond 50%. So I thought to myself, if that is the case, then why aren't there inverters that can be set never to drain the battery beyond 50% or 60% or 70% since this practice (especially 70% charge after usage-30% discharge) will make the batteries last longer..

Lanjonath:
Yh sure, I do the calculations myself. Batteries right now cost over N85k to be honest. ABout the regulating the battery usage, I feel the best thing is to have an inverter that has LCD display and moniter the battery levels, also switching off unnecessary equipment really goes a long way.

No you wont be able to connect the load directly to the controller because the controllers output is in DC. That's why if you notice on the charge controller display I posted right part reads 0.00A.

which inverter are you talking about? nd P.S I edited the earlier post you quoted and included some things

Ok.. So which brand of inverter would you suggest that is affordable and has all one would need from it, ranging from LCD display, to load protection, etc..? Also, which panel brand and type is the best?

Lanjonath:
Oh honestly I have no idea why they aren't, but no I've never heard or worked with such inverters, the only thing about the battery I know can be adjusted on some inverters is the charging current

Cool! Thanks a lot bro! I really appreciate your kind contribution.. Only wish I could keep in touch in case I need advise at any point in time..

I use Apollo, Vil, Gamatronics and a couple of others. The main thing to look at is the spec, because most manufacturers always a weaklink in their line of Inverters that won't perform exceptionally well. And as for Solar Panels, there are a lot of nice ones out there, what I'll advice is when you find a Solar Panel brand that works for you, stick with it. And stay away fro Sunshine and Joy Solar Panels.

SycophanticGoat:


Ok.. So which brand of inverter would you suggest that is affordable and has all one would need from it, ranging from LCD display, to load protection, etc..? Also, which panel brand and type is the best?



Cool! Thanks a lot bro! I really appreciate your kind contribution.. Only wish I could keep in touch in case I need advise at any point in time..

SycophanticGoat:


Yes.. So now I believe you can do the calculations yourself right?

Yeah I can do that

Nice thread....please I learnt solar panel get expired...it true? Cos someone intends dashing me one very big panel

davodyguy:


144 batteries

12V each? Or 24?

ranktzy:


You didn't state the cost of the inverter, how much did it cost you.. Did you install it yourself?

Bought the inverter from Germany though Chinese product at about 150 Euro in 2009. A techician suggested that the inverter was designed for solar as it did not have an in built battery charger. At today exchange rate the inverter will cost 50K. Installation was 15K.

SycophanticGoat:


The inverter I bought was for 46k in January. Surprisingly, it is 48k now.. While I bought my first 200Ah battery on 1st Jan for 48k, bought the second one for 55k and switched my 850va inverter for the 1,600va inverter (balanced up payment afterwards). Now these same batteries goes for 80.something thousand naira. It's really shooting up, along with solar panels.

I need your urgent advise. I am building a six bedroom duplex in my hometown and I am thinking of powering the house with solar. Everything in the house including the security lights must be powered at the same time and for at least 12 hours at a time.
WWhatis your suggestion please.

chinebu:

I need your urgent advise. I am building a six bedroom duplex in my hometown and I am thinking of powering the house with solar. Everything in the house including the security lights must be powered at the same time and for at least 12 hours at a time.
WWhatis your suggestion please.

first you need to do a load calculation ..

what and wat do you need to power and for how long

kindly state them and we check

SycophanticGoat:


As a matter of fact, this is possible. You can use solar panels, charge controller and inverter without battery backup. The major drawback is that you can only use such during the day when there's enough rays to go from the panel to your household appliances. In Nigeria, we mostly depend on power at nights so it's basically useless here without the batteries. In developed countries, people mount solar equipment for feed into the grid while they get paid for it. Those people do switch to solar power whenever they want to do some heavy stuff during the day, thereby reducing their utility bills.

Bro,

Please dont advice wrongly, i know this thread is for good iintent but dont mislead with wrong info

you CANNOT use an off-grid system without battery

First, your inverter can only power on wen it gets power from the battery
2nd, your charge controller gets its power from battery also

so how would you have a functional system without source of power?

please note that if you want solar power system without battery, be sure to get a GRID-TIE inverter and know that you will not have backup, as sun comes, u use and when sun goes down, yu are in darknes

Cheers!

SycophanticGoat:


LoL.. Lemme help you out in a more conservative manner.. You can only address this as if tho, you're preparing for the night. Reason is, your batteries gets charged mostly during the day and even when you use power then, the panels may be sufficient to charge your batteries and still deliver your current for your load. So I will say about 15 hours is perfect for this analysis.

Multiplying the time by power, we get 1,000W * 15hours = 15,000Wh
Assuming you'll probably be having only small amounts of sunshine daily, then we can divide by 4h pa day. However, in hotter/very sunny regions, we will divide the value by 6h. So let us use 5hours: 15,000Wh ÷ 5h = 3,000W of panels (3000W is such a huge number and you'd need at least, 12-14 of 300W to give you something close to that value if you'all be using a PMW controller although not advisable to use PMW with such array) . So the idea here is, the more then number of hours you expect to use your system pa day, the higher the wattage of your solar array.

If I were to carry out this analysis for a client, I'd def use 12 hours maximum, for my analysis instead of 24hours.

For batteries..
Since our total watt-hour is 15,000Wh, we'll have to divide this value with the voltage of the entire system. If you'll go with a 24V system, then 15,000Wh ÷ 24V = 625Ah. Now to ensure your battery bank last long in service, we multiply this value by 2 (this prevents usage beyond 50%). Hence, 625 × 2 = 1,250Ah. Let's just take it to the nearest 200. So we have 1,400Ah.

Mind you, batteries are usually rated as 12V so a parallel connection will give you 24V. Therefore, you need 14 of 200Ah batteries connected in series and parallel to give you 1,400Ah.

For a battery bank of that size use 6 or 2 volt batteries. Manufacturers don't recommend more than three strings for your bank. 7 banks is a nightmare and the potential for battery failure is high.
5 hours of direct sunshine is ambitious. For Lagos 4 to 4.5. You can Google irradiance charts for the area you live.

Konnektions146:


first you need to do a load calculation ..

what and wat do you need to power and for how long

kindly state them and we check

I will need to power 5 2hp air conditioners. One big fridge and one freezer. 2 tv sets. 7 ceiling fans. 2 big halogen bulb security light and pumping machine. Occationally using electric cooker in the kitchen.

I just need a practically workable advise even if it needs shading some of load from my needs.

Lanjonath:
I use Apollo, Vil, Gamatronics and a couple of others. The main thing to look at is the spec, because most manufacturers always a weaklink in their line of Inverters that won't perform exceptionally well. And as for Solar Panels, there are a lot of nice ones out there, what I'll advice is when you find a Solar Panel brand that works for you, stick with it. And stay away fro Sunshine and Joy Solar Panels. Feel free to ring me up:08131506603

Thanks so much bro.. I really appreciate your contributions/help..