Here's an interesting Vid on near-death experiences.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlBO0Y9GJhk

wiegraf:


My turn to be obvious?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps



But actually, we're pretty close to figuring out consciousness, no juju needed.

Ultimately, the best you could do is stretch this to is "universals exist, therefore god!? ", which is quite silly. It's like saying "fatness exists. It is not physical even though physical objects exhibit it, therefore god!? ". Or "stupidity exists. It is not physical. Therefore god?!"

Rinse and repeat with all universals...

This is one gap science cannot bridge because consciousness as I've noted earlier is immaterial. If it's material you better tell me the chemical self-awareness is. But since you can't and consciousness is immaterial it behooves on you to know that science, which deals only with the physical., can't explain consciousness. In fact, science presupposes consciousness since you need to be conscious to do science.

HardMirror:

Yes it sounds like a physical thing to me.
If I zap you with an electric shock, you are aware of it, why? Because of the nerves in your skin that would transmit the message to your brain.
This your consciousness thread is dead on arrival. It in no way proves god

Since you foolishly insist that consciousness is physical tell me it's chemical components.

cloudgoddess:

So when a person consumes a poison, or is a victim of an accident that causes them to enter a vegetative state, is it God that takes away their consciousness? Or is the loss in consciousness a result of physical & chemical damage?

Loss in consciousness as a result of physical and chemical damage. God designed our brains to be conscious within certain parameters of health, outside those conditions we lose our consciousness.

UyiIredia:


Since you foolishly insist that consciousness is physical tell me it's chemical components.

If consciousness is immaterial as your claim then why do material stuffs affect it like drugs? Alcohol affects consciousness alot for example. A brain surgery can permanently alter your consciousness. If consciousness is immaterial then why does material damage or chemical effect on the brain alter or affect this immaterial consciousness?

dalaman:

If consciousness is immaterial as your claim then why do material stuffs affect it like drugs? Alcohol affects consciousness alot for example. A brain surgery can permanently alter your consciousness. If consciousness is immaterial then why does material damage or chemical effect on the brain alter or affect this immaterial consciousness?

Because that immaterial consciousness is dependent on a physical brain to exist in humans.

UyiIredia:


Loss in consciousness as a result of physical and chemical damage. God designed our brains to be conscious within certain parameters of health, outside those conditions we lose our consciousness.

Why do you keep making such empty statements? You claim consciousness is immaterial but why are you only aware of material things? You only think and remember material things. Again why do material things like drugs affect and alter consciousness. Why does a brain lobotomy permanently affect a person's consciousness? Why does age and weaknesses of the brain cells also affect this immaterial consciousness? If consciousness isn't a function of the brain then why does it totally rely and depend on the material brain?

UyiIredia:


Because that immaterial consciousness is dependent on a physical brain to exist in humans.

It simply means it isn't immaterial. If it is immaterial it will exist independently and will not be affected and altered by material things like drugs, age or brain surgery. Consciousness is a function of the brain. That we don't fully understand how our brains function doesn't mean we should fill it with the God of the gaps thrash. We just started studying the brain in the last 50 years and great knowledge has been gained that has changed alot of things. We are still making tremendous progress. Who God of the gaps don epp? Consciousness is simply a function of the brain.

UyiIredia:


Since you foolishly insist that consciousness is physical tell me it's chemical components.

Were you not the one telling someone not to insult you sometime yesterday? Lol
I guess you are an hypocrite.
Yes consciousness is enabled by your senses and brain. Hormones also play a part in this as I have explained.

Without your eyes you cannot be conscious of the presence of light.

You are conscious of your body because your body is embedded with different sensory nerves that makes you aware of your leg, your head, your hands, all parts of your body.

Your hair does not have nerves so you cannot be conscious of it when I gently cut a strand without pulling at the scalp that has nerves in it.

I spoke about hunger, sexual urge, joy, sadness, they are all controlled by hormones.

And I repeat. Consciousness validates evolution, for it is imperative that an organism is conscious of itself and its environment so it can survive. Design does not need consciousness as the designer is able to program his creation to survive even without consciousness. Eg computers, robots etc. We the designers can take care of them so consciousness is not that important.

Religion makes claim of God being the provider for creations. But the fact is even the most basic virus has to be self conscious and aware of it's environment else it won't survive.

Asking for chemical formula is ridiculous, you can as well ask for chemical formula for wearing a shoe.

Me not being able to give a chemical formula for wearing a shoe does not mean the act of wearing a shoe is not physical. So asking for chemical formula for consciousness which is glaringly a physical interplay of nerves in your body, is ridiculous.


I am 100% sure you are surprised we can give you answers and rubbish your spiritual consciousness claims. So you are seeking evasion

dalaman:


It simply means it isn't immaterial. If it is immaterial it will exist independently and will not be affected and altered by material things like drugs, age or brain surgery. Consciousness is a function of the brain. That we don't fully understand how our brains function doesn't mean we should fill it with the God of the gaps thrash. We just started studying the brain in the last 50 years and great knowledge has been gained that has changed alot of things. We are still making tremendous progress. Who God of the gaps don epp? Consciousness is simply a function of the brain.

Just because it is affected by drugs, age or brain surgery does not make consciousness physical. Apparently in humans consciousness has been made dependent on the brain. But that consciousness, unlike the brain and its activities is immaterial. As a function of the brain, consciousness is immaterial. Science can help explain the brain-consciousness connection but it can't explain why there is consciousness at all.

UyiIredia:


Because that immaterial consciousness is dependent on a physical brain to exist in humans.

So how is it that some drugs can alter your consciousness?

If you smoke good weed your consciousness will be altered. Thanks to the cannabinol (not sure of the spelling) in the weed. Same with lots of other drugs and chemicals.

Does this not tell you that consciousness is controlled by electrical impulses from the nerves and chemical interactions with the brain?

Or are those chemical compounds in hard drugs spiritual?

HardMirror:

Were you not the one telling someone not to insult you sometime yesterday? Lol
I guess you are an hypocrite.
Yes consciousness is enabled by your senses and brain. Hormones also play a part in this as I have explained.

Without your eyes you cannot be conscious of the presence of light.

You are conscious of your body because your body is embedded with different sensory nerves that makes you aware of your leg, your head, your hands, all parts of your body.

Your hair does not have nerves so you cannot be conscious of it when I gently cut a strand without pulling at the scalp that has nerves in it.

I spoke about hunger, sexual urge, joy, sadness, they are all controlled by hormones.

And I repeat. Consciousness validates evolution, for it is imperative that an organism is conscious of itself and its environment so it can survive. Design does not need consciousness as the designer is able to program his creation to survive even without consciousness. Eg computers, robots etc. We the designers can take care of them so consciousness is not that important.

Religion makes claim of God being the provider for creations. But the fact is even the most basic virus has to be self conscious and aware of it's environment else it won't survive.

Asking for chemical formula is ridiculous, you can as well ask for chemical formula for wearing a shoe.

Me not being able to give a chemical formula for wearing a shoe does not mean the act of wearing a shoe is not physical. So asking for chemical formula for consciousness which is glaringly a physical interplay of nerves in your body, is ridiculous.


I am 100% sure you are surprised we can give you answers and rubbish your spiritual consciousness claims. So you are seeking evasion

But one can attempt to state the chemical the shoe is made of, no? If consciousness is physical as you claim, then it must be made up of chemicals. The physical interplay of nerves in the body is one thing. The consciosuness it effects is quite another thing entirely if one msut be honest.

HardMirror:


So how is it that some drugs can alter your consciousness?

If you smoke good weed your consciousness will be altered. Thanks to the cannabinol (not sure of the spelling) in the weed. Same with lots of other drugs and chemicals.

Does this not tell you that consciousness is controlled by electrical impulses from the nerves and chemical interactions with the brain?

Or are those chemical compounds in hard drugs spiritual?

But consciousness is not the electrical impulses themselves. To say that would be an equivocation. Consciousness is the result of those electrical impulses and it is an immaterial result.

UyiIredia:


Just because it is affected by drugs, age or brain surgery does not make consciousness physical. Apparently in humans consciousness has been made dependent on the brain. But that consciousness, unlike the brain and its activities is immaterial. As a function of the brain, consciousness is immaterial. Science can help explain the brain-consciousness connection but it can't explain why there is consciousness at all.

So you have read ALL scientific publications on the subject of consciousness for you to make this authoritative claim that science cannot explain consciousness?
This is how you religious folks desperately try to save an invented man made God by closing your eyes to what is right before you. Posts alone on this thread has already shown that consciousness is dependent on the brain and sensory nerves.

Your argument is like saying computer memory is enabled by the hard disk, but it is not because of the hard disk. You are contradicting yourself.

UyiIredia:


But consciousness is not the electrical impulses themselves. To say that would be an equivocation. Consciousness is the result of those electrical impulses and it is an immaterial result.

You are playing into my hands big time.

A robot moving is not the electrical impulses themselves, but the movement is caused by electrical impulses. So same with consciousness, it is not the electrical impulses themselves, but it is caused by the electrical impulses in the brain.

Computer memory is also immaterial, but it is caused by the electrical impulses. When your computer interprets input signals you get an output. Same with your brain without which you cannot be conscious. The fact that without the brain you have no consciousness is enough to point us to the fact that consciousness is physical not spiritual.

UyiIredia:


Just because it is affected by drugs, age or brain surgery does not make consciousness physical. Apparently in humans consciousness has been made dependent on the brain. But that consciousness, unlike the brain and its activities is immaterial. As a function of the brain, consciousness is immaterial. Science can help explain the brain-consciousness connection but it can't explain why there is consciousness at all.

I am tired of repeating my self over and over again. The sum total of the brain activity is what results in consciousness. Why is there consciousness? There is consciousness because humans or living organisms in general have a complex brain that relates to other sense organs in complicated and complex ways. The sum total of the interactions between the brain and all sensory organs is what results in consciousness.

How does God explain consciousness? Because of the assumption that there is an eternal conscious entity that gives human the ability to be conscious? Please how does that explain anything?

UyiIredia:


But one can attempt to state the chemical the shoe is made of, no? If consciousness is physical as you claim, then it must be made up of chemicals. The physical interplay of nerves in the body is one thing. The consciosuness it effects is quite another thing entirely if one msut be honest.

Hehehehe
Your tactics won't work.

Yes you can give the chemical formula for a shoe but can you give the chemical formula for the act of wearing a shoe?

You can give precise chemical composition of the brain, but can you give a chemical formula for the brain functioning towards self awareness?

It is proven beyond doubt that when you take certain chemical substances, you will alter your consciousness. If you don't believe me, go and take LSD or Cocaine or any had drugs. Even alcohol will alter your consciousness.

Stop going in circles mr man, the truth is staring you straight up

Seun:


It is true that consciousness isn't well understood by science at this time. We can make robots that behave like conscious beings, but we do not believe they have the same sense of self-awareness that animals and people seem to have. This is absolutely true

Okay.

Seun:

But the inability of science to explain something doesn't prove the existence of God. There was a time when we could not explain how life came to be, thunder & lightning, how birds fly, how bats navigate without light, rainbows, etc. People took our inability to explain those things as a sign of the existence of God, but now we understand them through science. We may eventually understand consciousness through science.

But I'm saying that in principle science can't explain consciousness because of its immaterial nature. Science deals only with physical things It doesn't postulate on the nature of the immaterial. This is why I say science can explain the brain-mind connection. abut it can't explain how there's a mind at all.

Okay note this. The brain is a mass of chemicals right? And chemical reactions result in chemical products with a use or release of energy. But where the human brain completely deviates from the norm is that it's reactions result in a c onsciousnesss that is neither a chemical product or a form of energy. It's a unique mental property of its own. And it's immaterial. That's why no science can explain it, because of its unique nature and since it's immaterial.

Seun:

Your speculations about the nature of consciousness are just speculations. There's no evidence that they are correct. I could come up with mine, and they would be equally useless. You can't just make things up and act as if they are true.

I'm not making anything up. Please carefully read and consider what I wrote above.

dalaman:


I am tired of repeating my self over and over again. The sum total of the brain activity is what results in consciousness. Why is there consciousness? There is consciousness because humans or living organisms in general have a complex brain that relates to other sense organs in complicated and complex ways. The sum total of the interactions between the brain and all sensory organs is what results in consciousness.

How does God explain consciousness? Because of the assumption that there is an eternal conscious entity that gives human the ability to be conscious? Please how does that explain anything?

Results in consciousness. Not is consciousness. So the interactions in the brain and sensory organs RESULTS IN consciousness but it IS NOT consciousness. That's why I can boldly say consciousness is not physical.

HardMirror:

Hehehehe
Your tactics won't work.

Yes you can give the chemical formula for a shoe but can you give the chemical formula for the act of wearing a shoe?

You can give precise chemical composition of the brain, but can you give a chemical formula for the brain functioning towards self awareness?

It is proven beyond doubt that when you take certain chemical substances, you will alter your consciousness. If you don't believe me, go and take LSD or Cocaine or any had drugs. Even alcohol will alter your consciousness.

Stop going in circles mr man, the truth is staring you straight up

Let's go back to definitions shall we. Define consciousness. Use a dictionary of your choice.

HardMirror:

Hehehehe
Your tactics won't work.

Yes you can give the chemical formula for a shoe but can you give the chemical formula for the act of wearing a shoe?

You can give precise chemical composition of the brain, but can you give a chemical formula for the brain functioning towards self awareness?

It is proven beyond doubt that when you take certain chemical substances, you will alter your consciousness. If you don't believe me, go and take LSD or Cocaine or any had drugs. Even alcohol will alter your consciousness.

Stop going in circles mr man, the truth is staring you straight up

I have seen the truth and the truth is what I'm telling you but you won't listen. Okay so chemical substances alter consciosuness. But is consciousness a chemical substance? Please answer the question.

UyiIredia:


I have seen the truth and the truth is what I'm telling you but you won't listen. Okay so chemical substances alter consciosuness. But is consciousness a chemical substance? Please answer the question.

You are just so funny.
Chemical substances produces electricity in batteries, is electricity a chemical substance?
You are playing ignorant. Lol
How can you a supposed educated man be asking me if consciousness is a chemical.
The battery example I gave you answers your question

HardMirror:

You are just so funny.
Chemical substances produces electricity in batteries, is electricity a chemical substance?
You are playing ignorant. Lol
How can you a supposed educated man be asking me if consciousness is a chemical.
The battery example I gave you answers your question

Okay. Since you insist consciousness is physical what are its physical properties.

UyiIredia:


Let's go back to definitions shall we. Define consciousness. Use a dictionary of your choice.

You have already defined it on your first page and I am ok with that dictionary definition. Don't waste our time here going in circles. Obviously you have nothing else to say.

UyiIredia:


I have seen the truth and the truth is what I'm telling you but you won't listen. Okay so chemical substances alter consciosuness. But is consciousness a chemical substance? Please answer the question.

Lol.

So your argument is "without the brain, consciousness will still exist". We can take out your brain and let's see exactly how conscious you would be.

You are deliberately being intellectually dishonest just to prove YOUR god exists. Keep it up. I'd do the same if I served my own imagination

UyiIredia:


I have seen the truth and the truth is what I'm telling you but you won't listen. Okay so chemical substances alter consciosuness. But is consciousness a chemical substance? Please answer the question.

If consciousness is completely immaterial as you claim then why do material substances like drugs and alcohol affect and alter this immaterial consciousness?

dalaman:

If consciousness is immaterial as your claim then why do material stuffs affect it like drugs? Alcohol affects consciousness alot for example. A brain surgery can permanently alter your consciousness. If consciousness is immaterial then why does material damage or chemical effect on the brain alter or affect this immaterial consciousness?

Bro tuale for you. This is the best answer so far
What happens before operation they take away your consciousness. How do doctors do that if it's spiritual

HardMirror:

You have already defined it on your first page and I am ok with that dictionary definition. Don't waste our time here going in circles. Obviously you have nothing else to say.

This is the definition I used

consciousness /ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/
noun
1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's
surroundings.

now is 'the state of being aware' physical? The correct answer is no, it is not.

UyiIredia:


Okay. Since you insist consciousness is physical what are its physical properties.

You take the attention I am giving you for granted. Consciousness is ruled by action and reaction principles.
Don't take this as a liberty to ask everything that fits your whims. This is like aslking for the physical properties of love, jealousy, greed.

You keep evading. You said if consciousness was caused by chemicals and nerves in the brain, what is the chemical formula for consciousness. A very stvpid question, yet I still indulged your stvpidity and explained using a chemical battery that produces electricity. Here you are with another question.

All I see is a man grasping for straws here.

No brain, no consciousness. No nerves- no consciousness, no hormones - no consciousness. All this has been proven.

What are the physical properties of wearing a shoe?

UyiIredia:


This is the definition I used

consciousness /ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/
noun
1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's
surroundings.

now is 'the state of being aware' physical? The correct answer is no, it is not.

Yes it is.

Just seeing that you said it is not. Lol
So it is spiritual and proves god? Consciousness is absolutely physical. It is my brain updating and interpreting information from my senses constantly.

The purpose this thread was created for is that atheists finally become theists since OP just discovered a "groundbreaking" discovery that would FINALLY prove to any doubters that god exists

But what this thread would succeed in doing is making certain theists to become atheists

Reading the arguments with clear mind does that

The dilemma that Nairaland theists go through is that in trying to PROVE their god exists, they infact prove he doesn't or at least they're not sure

They're making doubting theists turn atheist

And making atheists stand firm

hopefulLandlord:
The purpose this thread was created for is that atheists finally become theists since OP just discovered a "groundbreaking" discovery that would FINALLY prove to any doubters that god exists

But what this thread would succeed in doing is making certain theists to become atheists

Reading the arguments with clear mind does that

The dilemma that Nairaland theists go through is that in trying to PROVE their god exists, they infact prove he doesn't or at least they're not sure

They're making doubting theists turn atheist

And making atheists stand firm

Exactly. It only takes an honest mind reading through to see that.

One would think all atheists would be applauding him for finally proving God exists, but he only succeeded in throwing more light to why God does not exist.