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Understanding Gdi Issues. - Car Talk - Nairaland

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Understanding Gdi Issues. by DECOtech(m): 12:11am On Aug 02, 2016
I have often seen a lot of complaints here about GDI engines, with owners resorting to replacing a GDI engine with the non-GDI while some owners sell their vehicles off out of disappointment and frustration. This made me pick a keen interest in these engines, seeking to know what it is about them that eludes our auto technicians and mechanics in this country that make us often fail to keep vehicles with GDI engines on the road.

Mention Mitsubishi brand that has a GDI to a regular mechanic and the reaction you would get is “Ahhhhhh! The motor ehn, na problem moto oh!” …but why? …one mechanic even told his client to go and start fasting and praying. And I asked him: …”is there any part in this engine that wasn’t made by man?” To answer that question very well for myself, this was what I did… -I walked into one of the mechanic’s workshop which had a neat Mitsubishi space wagon parked in its premises for almost a year. Long story short, I paid for the 7seater minivan and started working on its 4G64 GDI engine right there and was able to get the engine running in 7 hours.

The common problem these GDIs develop after about a year of using it is its inability to rev well, causing serious drivability issues. That was the same problem with the one I acquired.

After a few minutes of observing the fuel system on the vehicle and research, I realized that the GDI system needs two different kinds of fuel pumps to work well.
1. The primary intank fuel pump: Located inside the tank as usual and is electrically operated. Its job is to pick fuel from the fuel tank to the secondary fuel pump.

2. The secondary High Pressure Fuel pump: Located on the engine head and driven by the intake camshaft. This pump receives fuel from pump1 and multiplies the fuel flow pressure. Most drivability issues experienced by GDI owners is caused by failure of this pump to maintain the required pressure in the fuel rail.

The only reason this pump fails so frequently in Nigeria is Engine Oil Abuse.
a. Using oil specifications other than the factory specification for that particular engine.
b. Skipping oil changes.

Another evasive problem is Carbon buildup on intake valves. This is a common and regular problem with the GDI engines. Due to modern Unburned Hydrocarbon (UHC) regulations, vapors from the crankcase are usually vented into the intake stream in order to prevent oil droplets from escaping through the exhaust. In a port injection engine, these droplets are ‘washed off’ the neck of the intake valve by a relatively constant stream of gasoline droplets. In a GDI engine, the gasoline doesn’t touch intake side of the valve. As a result, the droplets have a tendency to bake onto the valve and significantly reduce performance. To add to this effect, many advanced GDI engines also include exhaust gas recirculation in order to lean out the combustion mixture and reduce in-cylinder temperatures for certain combustion modes (reducing NOx emissions). Since GDI combustion has the ability to produce far more soot than premixed combustion (port injection), the problem is magnified, causing symptoms that range from low engine rev, rough engine running and general drivability issues.

Please, feel free to post any issues concerning your GDI powered engines, let’s talk about it.

3 Likes

Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by GAZZUZZ(m): 4:43am On Aug 02, 2016
You forgot to mention the TPS issue.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by mayor2013: 7:06am On Aug 02, 2016
You are not far from the truth.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by diportivo: 11:43am On Aug 02, 2016
DECOtech

I don dey wait dis ur thread e don tey

Nice one
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by cardoctor(m): 1:37pm On Aug 02, 2016
The secondary fuel pump is mostly ignored by most mechanics when poor performance is noticed.

Please also note that the GDi engine on a Mitsubishi is petrol and not diesel.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by empron(m): 6:39pm On Aug 02, 2016
Good job decotech
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by DECOtech(m): 1:15am On Aug 03, 2016
GAZZUZZ:
You forgot to mention the TPS issue.

Thanks Gazzuzz and Cardoctor

Its not that I forgot about the TPS. I would say I got carried away talking about the issues that evade the mechs cos the first thing they rush at is the TPS.

In fact, most GDIs with driveability issues that I've worked on have had their TPS replaced more than once or twice yet that didn't solve the problem.

Though the TPS should not be overlooked when troubleshooting a GDI system but faults with it which are not hard to detect, do not occur as frequently as the ones listed in the starting post.

2 Likes

Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by phibetakappa: 7:07am On Aug 03, 2016
Good job DECOtech, you have really demystified GDI engines.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by SortOut: 8:42pm On Aug 04, 2016
I've
heard is
sues with the 1999-2000 model, had to change the engine to that of its predecessor, working fine now, no issues
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by SortOut: 8:42pm On Aug 04, 2016
I've had issues with the 1999-2000 model, had to change the engine to that of its predecessor, working fine now, no issues
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by b2212(m): 8:39am On Aug 05, 2016
DECOtech:
I have often seen a lot of complaints here about GDI engines, with owners resorting to replacing a GDI engine with the non-GDI while some owners sell their vehicles off out of disappointment and frustration. This made me pick a keen interest in these engines, seeking to know what it is about them that eludes our auto technicians and mechanics in this country that make us often fail to keep vehicles with GDI engines on the road.

Mention Mitsubishi brand that has a GDI to a regular mechanic and the reaction you would get is “Ahhhhhh! The motor ehn, na problem moto oh!” …but why? …one mechanic even told his client to go and start fasting and praying. And I asked him: …”is there any part in this engine that wasn’t made by man?” To answer that question very well for myself, this was what I did… -I walked into one of the mechanic’s workshop which had a neat Mitsubishi space wagon parked in its premises for almost a year. Long story short, I paid for the 7seater minivan and started working on its 4G64 GDI engine right there and was able to get the engine running in 7 hours.

The common problem these GDIs develop after about a year of using it is its inability to rev well, causing serious drivability issues. That was the same problem with the one I acquired.

After a few minutes of observing the fuel system on the vehicle and research, I realized that the GDI system needs two different kinds of fuel pumps to work well.
1. The primary intank fuel pump: Located inside the tank as usual and is electrically operated. Its job is to pick fuel from the fuel tank to the secondary fuel pump.

2. The secondary High Pressure Fuel pump: Located on the engine head and driven by the intake camshaft. This pump receives fuel from pump1 and multiplies the fuel flow pressure. Most drivability issues experienced by GDI owners is caused by failure of this pump to maintain the required pressure in the fuel rail.

The only reason this pump fails so frequently in Nigeria is Engine Oil Abuse.
a. Using oil specifications other than the factory specification for that particular engine.
b. Skipping oil changes.

Another evasive problem is Carbon buildup on intake valves. This is a common and regular problem with the GDI engines. Due to modern Unburned Hydrocarbon (UHC) regulations, vapors from the crankcase are usually vented into the intake stream in order to prevent oil droplets from escaping through the exhaust. In a port injection engine, these droplets are ‘washed off’ the neck of the intake valve by a relatively constant stream of gasoline droplets. In a GDI engine, the gasoline doesn’t touch intake side of the valve. As a result, the droplets have a tendency to bake onto the valve and significantly reduce performance. To add to this effect, many advanced GDI engines also include exhaust gas recirculation in order to lean out the combustion mixture and reduce in-cylinder temperatures for certain combustion modes (reducing NOx emissions). Since GDI combustion has the ability to produce far more soot than premixed combustion (port injection), the problem is magnified, causing symptoms that range from low engine rev, rough engine running and general drivability issues.

Please, feel free to post any issues concerning your GDI powered engines, let’s talk about it.


https://www.nairaland.com/2152879/mitsubishi-space-wagon-now-400k
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by DECOtech(m): 6:58pm On Aug 06, 2016
b2212:


https://www.nairaland.com/2152879/mitsubishi-space-wagon-now-400k

Why you de show me? ...to buy or to advise on repairs?
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by chukel(m): 10:00pm On Aug 06, 2016
Is this GDI engine same one in elantra, accent and late model kia?
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by cockoduck: 7:17am On Aug 07, 2016
all you need is a scan tool, a leak down tester kit, an engine compression tester, a fuel pressure tester, and maybe an engine vaccum tester to diagnose GDI low power issues.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by DECOtech(m): 11:09pm On Aug 08, 2016
chukel:
Is this GDI engine same one in elantra, accent and late model kia?

The brands in your list do not come with GDI engines.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by chukel(m): 6:53am On Aug 09, 2016
DECOtech:


The brands in your list do not come with GDI engines.
this belongs to 2014 hyundai accent.

Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by chukel(m): 6:56am On Aug 09, 2016
2014 kia optima

Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by DECOtech(m): 2:12pm On Aug 09, 2016
chukel:
this belongs to 2014 hyundai accent.

Oh, this is new to me. didn't know it before now.

To answer your question; they (GDI) are all based on the same principle. be it Mitsubishi, Volvo or Hyundai.

1 Like

Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by DECOtech(m): 1:17pm On Jan 30, 2018
Keep the calls coming
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by Zeus555: 6:59pm On Dec 16, 2018
Take a look at this post. These guys described some problems with the 4G63 http://engineswork.com/engines/4g63-engine.html#4G63_Engine_problems Looks like they are common to the 4G64 engine.
My opinion - 4G are great engines, but they are too old and outdated.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by DECOtech(m): 6:42pm On Mar 19, 2019
Zeus555:
Take a look at this post. These guys described some problems with the 4G63 http://engineswork.com/engines/4g63-engine.html#4G63_Engine_problems Looks like they are common to the 4G64 engine.
My opinion - 4G are great engines, but they are too old and outdated.

The 4g63 engines are not usually GDI.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by web1123: 2:02pm On Jun 17, 2019
N
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by Oseni25(m): 4:25pm On Mar 31, 2020
You are highly correct sir, I have mitsu Gdi space star, pls can the built up carbon be removed on GDI engine? because people claimed if removed it will cost the engine to smoke. And what can cause hesitation when accelerating, but later pick up?
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by peterjero(m): 9:25pm On Apr 01, 2020
I also learnt that if the car does at least one day of highway drive at 3000 rpm the carbon tends to clear out... How true I don't know it was a video I was watching on YouTube.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by Allaye2889(m): 12:04pm On Mar 13, 2023
DECOtech:
I have often seen a lot of complaints here about GDI engines, with owners resorting to replacing a GDI engine with the non-GDI while some owners sell their vehicles off out of disappointment and frustration. This made me pick a keen interest in these engines, seeking to know what it is about them that eludes our auto technicians and mechanics in this country that make us often fail to keep vehicles with GDI engines on the road.

Mention Mitsubishi brand that has a GDI to a regular mechanic and the reaction you would get is “Ahhhhhh! The motor ehn, na problem moto oh!” …but why? …one mechanic even told his client to go and start fasting and praying. And I asked him: …”is there any part in this engine that wasn’t made by man?” To answer that question very well for myself, this was what I did… -I walked into one of the mechanic’s workshop which had a neat Mitsubishi space wagon parked in its premises for almost a year. Long story short, I paid for the 7seater minivan and started working on its 4G64 GDI engine right there and was able to get the engine running in 7 hours.

The common problem these GDIs develop after about a year of using it is its inability to rev well, causing serious drivability issues. That was the same problem with the one I acquired.

After a few minutes of observing the fuel system on the vehicle and research, I realized that the GDI system needs two different kinds of fuel pumps to work well.
1. The primary intank fuel pump: Located inside the tank as usual and is electrically operated. Its job is to pick fuel from the fuel tank to the secondary fuel pump.

2. The secondary High Pressure Fuel pump: Located on the engine head and driven by the intake camshaft. This pump receives fuel from pump1 and multiplies the fuel flow pressure. Most drivability issues experienced by GDI owners is caused by failure of this pump to maintain the required pressure in the fuel rail.

The only reason this pump fails so frequently in Nigeria is Engine Oil Abuse.
a. Using oil specifications other than the factory specification for that particular engine.
b. Skipping oil changes.

Another evasive problem is Carbon buildup on intake valves. This is a common and regular problem with the GDI engines. Due to modern Unburned Hydrocarbon (UHC) regulations, vapors from the crankcase are usually vented into the intake stream in order to prevent oil droplets from escaping through the exhaust. In a port injection engine, these droplets are ‘washed off’ the neck of the intake valve by a relatively constant stream of gasoline droplets. In a GDI engine, the gasoline doesn’t touch intake side of the valve. As a result, the droplets have a tendency to bake onto the valve and significantly reduce performance. To add to this effect, many advanced GDI engines also include exhaust gas recirculation in order to lean out the combustion mixture and reduce in-cylinder temperatures for certain combustion modes (reducing NOx emissions). Since GDI combustion has the ability to produce far more soot than premixed combustion (port injection), the problem is magnified, causing symptoms that range from low engine rev, rough engine running and general drivability issues.

Please, feel free to post any issues concerning your GDI powered engines, let’s talk about it.

Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by Allaye2889(m): 12:06pm On Mar 13, 2023
Allaye2889:
am a mechanic and the car came to me in this condition
The timing belt cut off and was replaced ever since then the car refused to start
Thinking of replacing the brain Box
Because the plugs are not getting fuel while the fuel pump from the tank is coming and the other pump beside the top is supplying
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by Allaye2889(m): 12:52pm On Mar 13, 2023
DECOtech:
I have often seen a lot of complaints here about GDI engines, with owners resorting to replacing a GDI engine with the non-GDI while some owners sell their vehicles off out of disappointment and frustration. This made me pick a keen interest in these engines, seeking to know what it is about them that eludes our auto technicians and mechanics in this country that make us often fail to keep vehicles with GDI engines on the road.

Mention Mitsubishi brand that has a GDI to a regular mechanic and the reaction you would get is “Ahhhhhh! The motor ehn, na problem moto oh!” …but why? …one mechanic even told his client to go and start fasting and praying. And I asked him: …”is there any part in this engine that wasn’t made by man?” To answer that question very well for myself, this was what I did… -I walked into one of the mechanic’s workshop which had a neat Mitsubishi space wagon parked in its premises for almost a year. Long story short, I paid for the 7seater minivan and started working on its 4G64 GDI engine right there and was able to get the engine running in 7 hours.

The common problem these GDIs develop after about a year of using it is its inability to rev well, causing serious drivability issues. That was the same problem with the one I acquired.

After a few minutes of observing the fuel system on the vehicle and research, I realized that the GDI system needs two different kinds of fuel pumps to work well.
1. The primary intank fuel pump: Located inside the tank as usual and is electrically operated. Its job is to pick fuel from the fuel tank to the secondary fuel pump.

2. The secondary High Pressure Fuel pump: Located on the engine head and driven by the intake camshaft. This pump receives fuel from pump1 and multiplies the fuel flow pressure. Most drivability issues experienced by GDI owners is caused by failure of this pump to maintain the required pressure in the fuel rail.

The only reason this pump fails so frequently in Nigeria is Engine Oil Abuse.
a. Using oil specifications other than the factory specification for that particular engine.
b. Skipping oil changes.

Another evasive problem is Carbon buildup on intake valves. This is a common and regular problem with the GDI engines. Due to modern Unburned Hydrocarbon (UHC) regulations, vapors from the crankcase are usually vented into the intake stream in order to prevent oil droplets from escaping through the exhaust. In a port injection engine, these droplets are ‘washed off’ the neck of the intake valve by a relatively constant stream of gasoline droplets. In a GDI engine, the gasoline doesn’t touch intake side of the valve. As a result, the droplets have a tendency to bake onto the valve and significantly reduce performance. To add to this effect, many advanced GDI engines also include exhaust gas recirculation in order to lean out the combustion mixture and reduce in-cylinder temperatures for certain combustion modes (reducing NOx emissions). Since GDI combustion has the ability to produce far more soot than premixed combustion (port injection), the problem is magnified, causing symptoms that range from low engine rev, rough engine running and general drivability issues.

Please, feel free to post any issues concerning your GDI powered engines, let’s talk about it.

PLEASE sir I need help
This Mitsubishi space wagon GDI was brought to me in this condition, they said the timing belt was replaced and the valves was changed but it refused to start ever since then
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by jceesquare(m): 7:18am On Mar 14, 2023
Allaye2889:
PLEASE sir I need help
This Mitsubishi space wagon GDI was brought to me in this condition, they said the timing belt was replaced and the valves was changed but it refused to start ever since then
What diagnosis have you done on the car?
You should run a compression test and also check if the timing is even correct.
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by Allaye2889(m): 10:05am On Mar 15, 2023
jceesquare:

What diagnosis have you done on the car?
You should run a compression test and also check if the timing is even correct.
the timing is correct and the fuel system is good, the coils are producing light the camshaft sensor is good
But the car refused to start

If you try to pure fuel from the intake manifold it will try to start but nothing
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by chukel(m): 8:55pm On Mar 15, 2023
Allaye2889:
the timing is correct and the fuel system is good, the coils are producing light the camshaft sensor is good
But the car refused to start

If you try to pure fuel from the intake manifold it will try to start but nothing
that timing is not correct
Re: Understanding Gdi Issues. by jceesquare(m): 10:21am On Mar 16, 2023
Allaye2889:
the timing is correct and the fuel system is good, the coils are producing light the camshaft sensor is good
But the car refused to start

If you try to pure fuel from the intake manifold it will try to start but nothing
The bolded is an indication that all or some of the things you stated as alright is actually not good. Does the car shoot when trying to start? If it does, then it's likely your timing or fuel delivery system is not working well.
As suggested earlier, run a compression test on all cylinder to know if the car has enough compression to start.

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