I mean a pure moralists who refrains from all the SINS normally preached against by most religions but whose instincts are based purely on morals and not due to religious beliefs.

Yes of course, why not?

the fanatic, either xtians or muslims, will tell you no.

but dont believe them because nobody has die and come to tell us

the criteria for the Judgment day!!

annyplenty:
I mean a pure moralists who refrains from all the SINS normally preached against by most religions but whose instincts are based purely on morals and not due to religious beliefs.

I say a capital NO!

No man can overcome flesh and sin except through the blood of Jesus Christ.

The standard of God concerning sin is far higher than what a moralist sees as right or wrong!

Making heaven is for the birds and not humans. Either you are a moralist, amoralist, or immoralist there is no heaven for you when you are dead.

annyplenty:


I say a capital NO!

No man can overcome flesh and sin except through the blood of Jesus Christ.

The standard of God concerning sin is far higher than what a moralist sees as right or wrong!

You are right.


However, worshipping morality is itself idolatry.


All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

While its true some people are moral due to their nature, we can't say nobody can be moral if they are not Christians.

Morality and salvation are very different things.

nlPoster:


You are right.


However, worshipping morality is itself idolatry.


All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

While its true some people are moral due to their nature, we can't say nobody can be moral if they are not Christians.

Morality and salvation are very different things.

Morality without repentance in Christ Jesus cannot save a soul. Even Cornelious did more than that but God still sent Peter to go and preach repentance in Jesus Christ to him.

https://www.nairaland.com/330033/moralists-make-heaven

SHALOM!

annyplenty:

I mean a pure moralists who refrains from all the SINS normally preached against by most religions but whose instincts are based purely on morals and not due to religious beliefs.

SOME NATIVE AMERICAN MYSTICS CALLED "NAGUALS," WERE ABLE TO DETERMINE SPIRITUAL LAW BY EXTRASENSORY PERCEPTION.

They were able to prove which actions are correct, or incorrect, by observing their effect on the environment.

THE NAGUALS PERCEIVED THAT "RIGHTEOUS" ACTIONS INCREASE OUR RESERVE OF "POSITIVE ENERGY," WHILE "UNRIGHTEOUS" ACTIONS FILL US WITH USELESS ENERGIES, OR THE LOSS OF ENERGY.

Their concept of Righteousness is consistent with that of The Bible- even though the Naguals do not have the same goals as Bible Followers.

The NEED to do certain things manifests like a GAPING PIT of "NEGATIVE ENERGY," whereas the FULFILLMENT of those Needs is perceived by the Seer as FILLING THE HOLE with Positive Energy.

Right and Wrong are thus proven not to be ARBITRARY, but factors of Reality.

macIB:

Yes of course, why not?

the fanatic, either xtians or muslims, will tell you no.

but dont believe them because nobody has die and come to tell us

the criteria for the Judgment day!!

PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND RETURNED TO TELL OF THEIR EXPERIENCES- NAGUALISM EXPLAINS WHY NONE OF THOSE ACCOUNTS ARE RELIABLE.

Everyone who saw "JESUS" thinks he looks like the LEONARDO da VINCI version in his LAST SUPPER mural.

That "Jesus" was modelled upon an illegitimate son of POPE ALEXANDER VI. The TRUE "Jesus" was a BLACK man.

"JESUS," never shows any interest in unifying the fragmented Church, nor in restoring any of his lost Teachings.

What has confused many is when people who have "seen "Jesus" " have come back to Earth with irrefutable Powers- for example, TOMMY LEE OSBORN and KENNETH E. HAGIN, both of Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA.

. MATTHEW 24:21-26.

21. "For then shall be Great Tribulation,
such as was not since
the Beginning of the World
to this time,
no, nor ever shall be.
22. "And except those days
should be shortened,
there should no flesh be saved:
but for the Elect's sake
those days shall be shortened.
23. "Then if any man
shall say unto you,

'LO, HERE IS CHRIST,
OR THERE;'

believe it not.

24. "For there shall
arise False Christs,
and False Prophets,
and shall shew
Great Signs and Wonders;
insomuch that,
if it were possible,
they shall deceive
the very Elect.
25. "Behold,
I have told you before.
26. "Wherefore if they shall
say unto you,

'BEHOLD, HE IS
IN THE DESERT;'

go not forth:

'BEHOLD, HE IS IN
THE SECRET CHAMBERS;'

believe it not."

THE ACT OF ACCESSING A SPIRITUAL LEVEL OF EXISTENCE BESTOWS POWER.

Having a Vision at that Level- authentically from God, or not- will bestow Power. That is why it is adherence to Lord Yeshua's Teachings alone that authenticates a Miracle Ministry.

. MATTHEW 7:12-29.

12. "Therefore all things
whatsoever ye would
that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them:
for this is The Law
and The Prophets.
13. "Enter ye in
at the strait Gate:
for wide is the Gate,
and broad is the Way,
that leadeth to Destruction,
and many there be
which go in thereat:
14. "Because strait is the gate,
and narrow is the Way,
which leadeth unto Life,
and few there be
that find It.
15. Beware of False Prophets,
which come to you
in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are
ravening wolves.
16. "Ye shall know them
by their fruits.
Do men gather grapes
of thorns,
or figs of thistles?
17. "Even so every Good Tree
bringeth forth Good Fruit;
but a Corrupt Tree
bringeth forth Evil Fruit.
18. "A Good Tree
cannot bring forth Evil Fruit,
neither can a Corrupt Tree
bring forth Good Fruit.
19. "Every Tree that
bringeth not forth Good Fruit
is hewn down,
and cast into the fire.
20. "Wherefore by their Fruits
ye shall know them.
21. "Not every one
that saith unto me,
'Lord, Lord,' shall enter into
The Kingdom of Heaven;
but he that doeth
The Will of my Father,
Which is in Heaven.
22. "Many will say to me
in That Day,

'LORD, LORD,
HAVE WE NOT
PROPHESIED IN THY NAME?
AND IN THY NAME
HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS?
AND IN THY NAME
DONE MANY
WONDERFUL WORKS?'

23. "And then will I
profess unto them,

'I NEVER KNEW YOU:
DEPART FROM ME,
YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.'

24. "Therefore whosoever
heareth these Sayings of mine,
and doeth them,
I will liken him unto
a Wise man,
which built his house
upon a rock:
25. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that house;
and it fell not:
for it was founded
upon a rock.
26. "And every one
that heareth these Sayings
of mine,
and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto
a Foolish man,
which built his house
upon the sand:
27. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that house;
and it fell:
and great was the fall of it."

28. And it came to pass,
when Jesus had ended
these Sayings,
the people were
astonished at his Doctrine:
29. For he Taught them
as (one) having Authority,
and not as the Scribes.

OBEDIENCE OF LORD YESHUA'S TEACHINGS ARE THE SOLE CRITERIA OF JUDGMENT DAY SURVIVAL.

annyplenty:


I say a capital NO!

No man can overcome flesh and sin except through the blood of Jesus Christ.

The standard of God concerning sin is far higher than what a moralist sees as right or wrong!

.. LUKE 16:1-15.

AND he said also unto his Disciples,

"There was a certain rich man,
which had a steward;
and the same was accused unto him
that he had wasted his goods.
2. "And he called him,
and said unto him,

'HOW IS IT THAT
I HEAR THIS OF THEE?
GIVE AN ACCOUNT
OF THY STEWARDSHIP;
FOR THOU MAYEST BE
NO LONGER STEWARD.'

3. "Then the steward said
within himself,

'WHAT SHALL I DO?
FOR MY LORD
TAKETH AWAY FROM ME
THE STEWARDSHIP:
I CANNOT DIG,
TO BEG I AM ASHAMED.
4. 'I AM RESOLVED
WHAT TO DO,
THAT, WHEN I AM
PUT OUT OF THE STEWARDSHIP,
THEY MAY RECEIVE ME
INTO THEIR HOUSES.'

5. "So he called every one
of his lord's debtors unto him,
and said unto the first,

'HOW MUCH OWEST THOU
UNTO MY LORD?'

6. "And he said,

'AN HUNDRED MEASURES OF OIL.'

And he said unto him,

'TAKE THY BILL,
AND SIT DOWN QUICKLY,
AND WRITE FIFTY.'

7. "Then said he to another,

'AND HOW MUCH
OWEST THOU?'

And he said,

'AN HUNDRED MEASURES OF WHEAT.'

And he said unto him,

'TAKE THY BILL,
AND WRITE FOURSCORE.'

8. "And the lord commended
the Unjust Steward,
because he had done wisely:
for the Children of this World
are in their Generation
wiser than the Children of Light.
9. "And I Say unto you,

'MAKE TO YOURSELVES FRIENDS
OF THE MAMMON
OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS;
THAT, WHEN YE FAIL,
THEY MAY RECIEVE YOU
INTO EVERLASTING HABITATIONS.'

10. "He that is Faithful
in that which is Least
is Faithful also in Much:
and he that is Unjust
in the Least
is Unjust also in Much.
11. "If therefore ye have not been
Faithful in the Unrighteous Mammon,
who will commit to your trust
The True Riches?
12. "And if ye have not
been Faithful
in that which is
another man's,
who shall give you
that which is your own?
13. "No Servant can
serve two Masters:
for either he will hate the one,
and love the other;
or else he will hold to the one,
and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and Mammon."

14. And the Pharisees also,
who were Covetous,
heard all these things,
and they derided him.
15. And he Said unto them,

"Ye are they
which justify yourselves
before Men;
but God knoweth
your hearts:
for that which is
Highly Esteemed
amongst Men
is Abomination
in The Sight of God."

THE FIRST SIGN OF A FALSE CHRISTIAN IS THAT THEY TEACH MEN THAT YESHUA IS THE CHRIST.

Anybody refering to Lord Yeshua as "CHRIST" is ALWAYS a Deceiver.

. MATTHEW 16:20.

20. Then charged he his Disciples
that they should tell no man
that he was Jesus The Christ.

. MATTHEW 24:1-5.

AND Jesus went out,
and departed from the Temple:
and his Disciples came to him
for to shew him the Buildings
of The Temple.
2. And Jesus Said unto them,

"See ye not all these things?
Verily I Say unto you,

'THERE SHALL NOT
BE LEFT HERE
ONE STONE UPON ANOTHER
THAT SHALL NOT BE
THROWN DOWN.'

3. And as he sat upon
the mount of Olives,
the Disciples came
unto him privately,
saying,

"Tell us,
when shall these things be?
And what shall be
The Sign of thy Coming,
and of The End of the World?"

4. And Jesus answered
and Said unto them,

"Take heed
that no man deceive you.
5. "For many shall come
in my Name,
saying, I am Christ;
and shall deceive many."

IF A PERSON WERE TRULY MORAL, THEY WOULD NATURALLY FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES, WHETHER THEY KNEW IT OR NOT.

. MATTHEW 7:12.

12. "Therefore all things
whatsoever ye would
that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them:
for this is The Law
and The Prophets."

PAUL WAS THE DISCIPLE OF GAMALIEL, WHO WAS THE DISCIPLE OF THE GREAT HILLEL.

Ordered by a Roman Centurion to recite The Law of Moses- while standing on one leg ("-or die," implied,) Hillel said:

"THAT WHICH IS
HATEFUL TO THEE,
DO NOT UNTO
THY FELLOWMAN;
THAT IS THE WHOLE LAW,
THE REST IS MERE
COMMENTARY."

GAMALIEL showed how much he believed in this Teaching of his Master, by arresting and beating two Messengers of God, for Healing a Cripple.

PAUL showed how much he believed in this Teaching of his Master's Master, by rounding up all of the Christians who witnessed Lord Yeshua's Resurrection, and dragging them back to Yasharayalim, to be gagged or executed.

. MATTHEW 23:1-15.

THEN Spake Jesus
to the multitude,
and to his Disciples,

2. Saying,

"The scribes
and the Pharisees
sit in Moses' seat:
3. "All therefore whatsoever
they bid you observe,
that observe and do;
but do not ye
after their works:
for they say, and do not.
4. "For they bind
heavy burdens
and grievous to be borne,
and lay them
on men's shoulders;
but they themselves
will not move them
with one of their fingers.
5. "But all their works
they do for to be seen of men:
they make broad their phylacteries,
and enlarge the borders
of their garments,
6. "And love the Uppermost Rooms at feasts,
and the Chief Seats
in the Synagogues,
7. "And greetings
in the markets,
and to be called of men,
'Rabbi, Rabbi.'
8. "But be not ye called 'Rabbi:'
for one is your Master,
even Christ;
and all ye are Brethren.
9. "And call no man your father upon the Earth:
for one is your Father,
Which is in Heaven.
10. "Neither be ye
called masters:
for one is your Master,
even Christ.
11. "But he that is greatest among you
shall be your servant.
12. "And whosoever shall
exalt himself
shall be abased;
and he that shall
humble himself
shall be exalted.
13. "But woe unto you,
scribes and Pharisees,
Hypocrites!
for ye shut up
The Kingdom of Heaven
against men:
for ye neither go in yourselves,
neither suffer ye them
that are entering to go in.
14. "Woe unto you,
scribes and Pharisees,
Hypocrites!
For ye devour widows' houses,
and for a pretence
make long prayer:
therefore ye shall receive
The Greater Damnation.
15. "Woe unto you,
scribes and Pharisees,
Hypocrites!
for ye compass Sea and Land
to make one proselyte,
and when he is made,
ye make him
twofold more
The Child of Hell
than yourselves."

YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF THE DOCTRINE OF THE PHARISEES- THEREFORE, YOU SUBSCRIBE TO THE LIE THAT "NO MAN CAN CONTROL THE FLESH!"

. DEUTERONOMY 25:11-19.

11. When men strive together
one with another,
and the wife of the one
draweth near
for to deliver her husband
out of the hand of him
that smiteth him,
and putteth forth her hand,
and taketh him by the secrets:
12. Then thou shalt
cut off her hand,
thine eye shall not pity her.

13. Thou shalt not
have in thy bag
divers weights,
a great and a small.
14. Thou shalt not
have in thine house
divers measures,
a great and a small.
15. But thou shalt have
a perfect and just weight,
a perfect and just measure
shalt thou have:
that thy days may be lengthened
in the Land which
The LORD thy God giveth thee.
16. For all that do such things,
and all that do unrighteously,
are an abomination
unto the LORD thy God.

17. Remember what Amalek
did unto thee by the way,
when ye were come forth
out of Egypt;
18. How he met thee
by the way,
and smote
the hindmost of thee,
even all that were feeble
behind thee,
when thou wast
faint and weary;
and he feared not God.
19. Therefore it shall be,
when the LORD thy God
hath given thee rest
from all thine enemies
round about,
in the Land which
The LORD thy God giveth thee
for an inheritance
to possess it,
that thou shalt blot out
the Remembrance of Amalek
from under Heaven;
thou shalt not forget it.

IF A WIFE SO MUCH AS TOUCHES ANOTHER MAN'S PRIVATE PARTS WHILE SAVING HER HUSBAND'S LIFE, THE RIGHTEOUS THING TO DO IS TO CUT THAT HAND OFF- IF THE DESCENDANTS OF THE ENEMIES THAT ATTACKED YOUR ANCESTORS ARE FOUND, THE RIGHTEOUS THING TO DO, IS TO EXTERMINATE THEM!

If you know that that is THE TRUTH, then you know that IT IS YOUR DUTY TO AVOID ALL ABOMINABILITY BEFORE GOD, and therefore AMPUTATE any Body Part that wants to draw you into SIN against your Will, and ELIMINATE any EVIL ATTITUDE, SYSTEM, HABIT, or PASSTIME that made your Ancestors SIN- and therefore DIE.

.    MATTHEW 18:1-9.

AT the same time came
the Disciples unto Jesus,
saying,

"Who is the greatest
in The Kingdom of Heaven?"

2. And Jesus called
a little child unto him,
and set him
in the midst of them,
3. And Said,

"Verily I Say unto you,

'EXCEPT YE
BE CONVERTED,
AND BECOME
AS LITTLE CHILDREN,
YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO
THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.'

4. "Whosoever therefore
shall humble himself
as this little child,
the same is greatest
in The Kingdom of Heaven.
5. "And whoso shall receive
one such little child
in my Name receiveth me.
6. "But whoso shall offend
one of these little ones
which believe in me,
it were better for him
that a millstone
were hanged about his neck,
and that he were drowned
in the Depth of the Sea.
7. "Woe unto the World
because of Offences!
For it must needs be
that Offences come;
but woe to that man
by whom the Offence cometh!
8. "Wherefore if thy hand
or thy foot offend thee,
cut them off,
and cast them from thee:
it is better for thee
to enter into life
halt or maimed,
rather than having
two hands or two feet
to be cast into Everlasting Fire.
9. "And if thine eye offend thee,
pluck it out,
and cast it from thee:
it is better for thee
to enter into life
with one eye,
rather than having two eyes
to be cast into Hell Fire."

CharlesJok3r:

Making heaven is for the birds and not humans. Either you are a moralist, amoralist, or immoralist there is no heaven for you when you are dead.

IF YOU CANNOT CONTROL YOUR BODY IT IS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR MIND- IF YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR MIND, IT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE DEVIL-POSSESSED!

. MATTHEW 12:41-45.

41. "The men of Nineveh
shall rise in Judgment
with this Generation,
and shall Condemn It:
because they repented
at the Preaching of Jonas;
and, behold,
a Greater than Jonas is here.
42. "The Queen of the South
shall rise up in the Judgment
with this Generation,
and shall Condemn It:
for she came from
The Uttermost Parts
of the Earth
to hear The Wisdom
of Solomon;
and, behold,
a Greater than Solomon
is here.
43. "When the unclean spirit
is gone out of a man,
he walketh through dry places,
seeking rest,
and findeth none.
44. "Then he saith,

'I WILL RETURN
INTO MY HOUSE
FROM WHENCE
I CAME OUT;'

and when he is come,
he findeth it empty,
swept, and garnished.
45. "Then goeth he,
and taketh with himself
seven other spirits
more wicked than himself,
and they enter in
and dwell there:
and the last state of that man
is worse than the first.
Even so shall it be also
unto this Wicked Generation."

nlPoster:


You are right.

However, worshipping morality is itself idolatry.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

While its true some people are moral due to their nature, we can't say nobody can be moral if they are not Christians.

Morality and salvation are very different things.

WHO TAUGHT YOU THAT BULLSHIT?

. MATTHEW 15:1-20.

THEN came to Jesus
scribes and Pharisees,
which were of Jerusalem,
saying,

2. "Why do thy Disciples
transgress the Tradition
of the Elders?
For they wash not
their hands when
they eat bread."

3. But he answered
and Said unto them,

"Why do ye also transgress
The Commandment of God
by your Tradition?
4. "For God Commanded,
Saying,

'HONOUR THY FATHER
AND MOTHER:
AND, HE THAT CURSETH
FATHER OR MOTHER
LET HIM DIE THE DEATH.'

5. "But ye say,

'WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY
TO HIS FATHER OR MOTHER,

"IT IS A GIFT,
BY WHATSOEVER
THOU MIGHTEST BE
PROFITED BY ME;"

6. 'AND HONOUR NOT
HIS FATHER OR HIS MOTHER,
HE SHALL BE FREE.'

Thus have ye made
The Commandment of God
of none effect
by your Tradition.
7. "Ye Hypocrites,
well did Esaias
Prophesy of you,
saying,

8. 'THIS PEOPLE
DRAWETH NIGH UNTO ME
WITH THEIR MOUTH,
AND HONOURETH ME
WITH THEIR LIPS;
BUT THEIR HEART
IS FAR FROM ME.
9. 'BUT IN VAIN
THEY DO WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES
THE COMMANDMENTS
OF MEN.' "

10. And he called the multitude,
and Said unto them,

"Hear, and understand:
11. "Not that which goeth
into the mouth defileth a man;
but that which cometh
out of the mouth,
this defileth a man."

12. Then came his Disciples,
and Said unto him,

"Knowest thou that
the Pharisees were offended,
after they heard this Saying?"

13. But he answered and Said,

"Every plant,
which my Heavenly Father
hath not Planted,
shall be rooted up.
14. "Let them alone:
they be blind leaders
of the blind.
And if the blind lead the blind,
both shall fall into the ditch."

15. Then answered Peter
and said unto him,

"Declare unto us this Parable."

16. And Jesus Said,

"Are ye also yet
without understanding?
17. "Do not ye yet understand,
that whatsoever entereth in
at the mouth
goeth into the belly,
and is cast out
into the draught?
18. "But those things
which proceed
out of the mouth
come forth from the heart;
and they defile the man.
19. "For out of the heart
proceed Evil Thoughts,
Murders, Adulteries,
Fornications, Thefts,
False Witness, Blasphemies:
20. These are the things
which defile a man:
but to eat with
unwashen hands
defileth not a man."

WHO TAUGHT YOU THE TERM "MORALS?"

WHO TAUGHT YOU THE TERM "MORALS?"

Was it not the most IMMORAL Race in the History of the World?

One of their stupid Debate Tactics is winning an argument by changing the terms, and subject factors.

"MORALS" are what MEN DECIDE are RIGHT OR WRONG; RIGHTEOUSNESS is THE PRINCIPLES OF LIFE.

MORALS change from Generation-to-Generation.

RIGHTEOUSNESS is ETERNAL.

It is the Principles by which BODILY CELLS work. Every Commandment of God corresponds to one or more Macro/Micro Biological Functions.

Oyinbo Atheistic "Scientists" attempts to create life in the laboratory have failed, because they are trying to create cells that do not obey The Commandments of God at the molecular level.

annyplenty:


Morality without repentance in Christ Jesus cannot save a soul. Even Cornelious did more than that but God still sent Peter to go and preach repentance in Jesus Christ to him.

TRUE MORALITY DOES NOT NEED SALVATION.

Those who have proclaimed that they are SAVED have, to date, possessed neither RIGHTEOUSNESS nor MORALITY.

.    MATTHEW 22:1-14.

AND Jesus answered
and Spake unto them again
by Parables,
and Said,

2. "The Kingdom of Heaven
is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage
for his son,
3. "And sent forth his servants
to call them that were bidden
to the wedding:
and they would not come.
4. "Again, he sent forth
other servants,
saying,

'TELL THEM
WHICH ARE BIDDEN,

"BEHOLD,
I HAVE PREPARED MY DINNER:
MY OXEN AND MY FATLINGS
ARE KILLED,
AND ALL THINGS ARE READY:
COME UNTO THE MARRIAGE." '

5. "But they made light of it,
and went their ways,
one to his farm,
another to his merchandise:
6. "And the remnant
took his servants,
and entreated them spitefully,
and slew them.
7. "But when the king heard thereof,
he was wroth:
and he sent forth his armies,
and destroyed those murderers,
and burned up their city.
8. Then saith he to his servants,

'THE WEDDING IS READY,
BUT THEY WHICH WERE BIDDEN
WERE NOT WORTHY.
9. 'GO YE THEREFORE
INTO THE HIGHWAYS,
AND AS MANY
AS YE SHALL FIND,
BID TO THE MARRIAGE.'

10. "So those servants
went out
into the highways,
and gathered together all
as many as they found,
both bad and good:
and the wedding
was furnished with guests.
11. "And when the king
came in
to see the guests,
he saw there a man
which had not on
a wedding garment:
12. "And he saith unto him,

'FRIEND,
HOW CAMEST THOU
IN HITHER NOT HAVING
A WEDDING GARMENT?'

And he was speechless.
13. "Then said the king
to the servants,

'BIND HIM
HAND AND FOOT,
AND CAST HIM
INTO OUTER DARKNESS,
THERE SHALL BE WEEPING
AND GNASHING OF TEETH.
14. 'FOR MANY ARE CALLED
BUT FEW (ARE) CHOSEN.'

A Moral Person can go to Heaven as soon as they have accumulated enough Spiritual Power to do so. BUT THEY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE CITY OF GOD.

A TRULY MORAL person would be drawn to THE GOSPEL OF YESHUA, and IMMEDIATELY understand the VALUE of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and be willing to acquire It- OUT OF GRATITUDE TOWARD THE CREATOR.

NAGUAL MATUS said that he was aware of the Spiritual Beings inviting Man into Heaven, and admitted that THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT: however, he said, that he could not accept that THEIR Way is THE ONLY WAY- despite that his Spiritual Senses verified that LIFE COMES FROM THEIR REALM, AND NOWHERE ELSE.

[See: THE FIRE FROM WITHIN, by Carlos Castaneda.]

You need to understand where this argument is coming from!

These are the Descendants of people who have exterminated PEOPLE, ANIMALS, INSECTS, and PLANTS that have existed for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

For CENTURIES, they have been trying to ESCAPE from the conception that there WILL be a RECKONING for what their Race has done.

That is why they HAVE TO get rid of BELIEF IN GOD.

If they can pretend that BIBLE RELIGION is all about "MORALS," the Next Step is to prove that WE DON'T NEED GOD FOR MORALS- because THE WAY OF GOD is IMMORAL.

For instance, they will point to places in The Bible where God Commanded things THEY have done, that were IMMORAL, in order to say that GOD was immoral- whereas the situations are NEVER the same.

The guy above me is sparingly insane! If Jesus dey preach like this people go gather listen to him?

Continue posting what your generations cannot finish reading!

And to the OP, all moralist that do good deeds without faith in Allah and His last Prophet till they die will have their rewards before their death on Earth!

They will have nothing to be rewarded for in the hearafter except Hell.

is asked this question long ago.can one who is goodly but not godly make heaven?

Christian said no?

but one who believe in god but does not do good can make heaven because of grace and Jesus sacrifice.

made no sence to me

WHO TAUGHT YOU THE TERM "MORALS?"

Was it not the most IMMORAL Race in the History of the World?

One of their stupid Debate Tactics is winning an argument by changing the terms, and subject factors.

"MORALS" are what MEN DECIDE are RIGHT OR WRONG; RIGHTEOUSNESS is THE PRINCIPLES OF LIFE.

MORALS change from Generation-to-Generation.

RIGHTEOUSNESS is ETERNAL.

It is the Principles by which BODILY CELLS work. Every Commandment of God corresponds to one or more Macro/Micro Biological Functions.

Oyinbo Atheistic "Scientists" attempts to create life in the laboratory have failed, because they are trying to create cells that do not obey The Commandments of God at the molecular level.

annyplenty:


Morality without repentance in Christ Jesus cannot save a soul. Even Cornelious did more than that but God still sent Peter to go and preach repentance in Jesus Christ to him.

TRUE MORALITY DOES NOT NEED SALVATION.

Those who have proclaimed that they are SAVED have, to date, possessed neither RIGHTEOUSNESS nor MORALITY.

.    MATTHEW 22:1-14.

AND Jesus answered
and Spake unto them again
by Parables,
and Said,

2. "The Kingdom of Heaven
is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage
for his son,
3. "And sent forth his servants
to call them that were bidden
to the wedding:
and they would not come.
4. "Again, he sent forth
other servants,
saying,

'TELL THEM
WHICH ARE BIDDEN,

"BEHOLD,
I HAVE PREPARED MY DINNER:
MY OXEN AND MY FATLINGS
ARE KILLED,
AND ALL THINGS ARE READY:
COME UNTO THE MARRIAGE." '

5. "But they made light of it,
and went their ways,
one to his farm,
another to his merchandise:
6. "And the remnant
took his servants,
and entreated them spitefully,
and slew them.
7. "But when the king heard thereof,
he was wroth:
and he sent forth his armies,
and destroyed those murderers,
and burned up their city.
8. Then saith he to his servants,

'THE WEDDING IS READY,
BUT THEY WHICH WERE BIDDEN
WERE NOT WORTHY.
9. 'GO YE THEREFORE
INTO THE HIGHWAYS,
AND AS MANY
AS YE SHALL FIND,
BID TO THE MARRIAGE.'

10. "So those servants
went out
into the highways,
and gathered together all
as many as they found,
both bad and good:
and the wedding
was furnished with guests.
11. "And when the king
came in
to see the guests,
he saw there a man
which had not on
a wedding garment:
12. "And he saith unto him,

'FRIEND,
HOW CAMEST THOU
IN HITHER NOT HAVING
A WEDDING GARMENT?'

And he was speechless.
13. "Then said the king
to the servants,

'BIND HIM
HAND AND FOOT,
AND CAST HIM
INTO OUTER DARKNESS,
THERE SHALL BE WEEPING
AND GNASHING OF TEETH.
14. 'FOR MANY ARE CALLED
BUT FEW (ARE) CHOSEN.'

A Moral Person can go to Heaven as soon as they have accumulated enough Spiritual Power to do so. BUT THEY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE CITY OF GOD.

A TRULY MORAL person would be drawn to THE GOSPEL OF YESHUA, and IMMEDIATELY understand the VALUE of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and be willing to acquire It- OUT OF GRATITUDE TOWARD THE CREATOR.

NAGUAL MATUS said that he was aware of the Spiritual Beings inviting Man into Heaven, and admitted that THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT: however, he said, that he could not accept that THEIR Way is THE ONLY WAY- despite that his Spiritual Senses verified that LIFE COMES FROM THEIR REALM, AND NOWHERE ELSE.

[See: THE FIRE FROM WITHIN, by Carlos Castaneda.]

You need to understand where this argument is coming from!

These are the Descendants of people who have exterminated PEOPLE, ANIMALS, INSECTS, and PLANTS that have existed for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

For CENTURIES, they have been trying to ESCAPE from the conception that there WILL be a RECKONING for what their Race has done.

That is why they HAVE TO get rid of BELIEF IN GOD.

If they can pretend that BIBLE RELIGION is all about "MORALS," the Next Step is to prove that WE DON'T NEED GOD FOR MORALS- because THE WAY OF GOD is IMMORAL.

For instance, they will point to places in The Bible where God Commanded things THEY have done, that were IMMORAL, in order to say that GOD was immoral- whereas the situations are NEVER the same.

mumumugu:

is asked this question long ago.can one who is goodly but not godly make heaven?

Christian said no?

DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING, UNLESS THEY SHOW YOU THE AUTHORITATIVE BASIS FOR THEIR CLAIM!

In the case of CHRISTIANITY, that means SCRIPTURE.

COMMONSENSE should tell you that most Christians are LIARS.

After deceiving the public for 50 years, BILLY GRAHAM said that he no longer believed that JESUS was the ONLY Way to Heaven!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MZWug3QAvs (9:51 mins.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cTr34ZnGG0 (4:19 mins.)

What angers me is that for DECADES this (*Bleep!*)ard had the GUTS to preach that PENTECOSTALISM is NOT of God, and that SPEAKING IN TONGUES is "OF THE DEVIL:" until his daughter 'Spoke in Tongues;" then he said that Speaking in Tongues is of God- and it's for SOME PEOPLE!"

He preached that it is THE WILL OF GOD for some RIGHTEOUS people to be sick- that they had NO RIGHT to PRAY TO GOD, and EXPECT Him to Heal them! Thousands into Millions of Christians DIED because of THAT Teaching of his!

Then he turns around and says that he believed that people who do not even believe on Lord Yeshua are going to Heaven! Whereas, he previously said that Christians who believed on Lord Yeshua MORE than HIM were going to HELL!

mumumugu:

but one who believe in god but does not do good can make heaven because of grace and Jesus sacrifice.

made no sence to me

GOING TO HEAVEN IS NOT THE ISSUE, BUT BEING HONOURABLY RECEIVED!

Who told you that any such thing as "GRACE" exists? Lord Yeshua never mentioned such a thing!

Great Spiritual Power is needed to go to Heaven. To do so without Divine Protection is FOOLHARDY.

God has OUTCASTS in Heaven, who are not outcast from Heaven: these are a menace to beings who are strong enough to enter Heaven, but not strong enough to withstand THEM.

This is why it is important to be "CONFESSED BEFORE THE ANGELS OF GOD."

Does this explanation not make sense to you better, now?

. NUMBERS 15:27-31.

27. "And if any Soul Sin
through ignorance,
then he shall bring a she goat
of the first year
for a Sin Offering.
28. And the Priest shall
make an Atonement
for the Soul that
Sinneth Ignorantly,
when he Sinneth by Ignorance
before The LORD,
to make an Atonement for him;
and it shall be forgiven him.
29. "Ye shall have One Law
for him that Sinneth
through Ignorance,
both for him that is born
among the Children of Israel,
and for the Stranger
that sojourneth
among them.
30. "But the Soul
that doeth ought presumptuously,
whether he be
born in the land,
or a Stranger,
the same Reproacheth
The LORD;
and that Soul shall be cut off
from among his people.
31. "Because he hath despised
The Word of The LORD,
and hath broken His Commandment,
that Soul shall
utterly be cut off;
his Iniquity shall be
upon him."

ATONEMENT DOES NOT COVER PEOPLE WHO SIN DELIBERATELY.

People who boast that they are Saved because someone told them to Believe Something and Confess something are usually just deceiving themselves.

People who die without TOTAL RECALL Ability are usually DESTROYED in moments.

I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh to the father except by me

And if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God raised him up from the dead, thou shall be saved

.

oaroloye:
WHO TAUGHT YOU THE TERM "MORALS?"

Was it not the most IMMORAL Race in the History of the World?

One of their stupid Debate Tactics is winning an argument by changing the terms, and subject factors.

"MORALS" are what MEN DECIDE are RIGHT OR WRONG; RIGHTEOUSNESS is THE PRINCIPLES OF LIFE.

MORALS change from Generation-to-Generation.

RIGHTEOUSNESS is ETERNAL.

It is the Principles by which BODILY CELLS work. Every Commandment of God corresponds to one or more Macro/Micro Biological Functions.

Oyinbo Atheistic "Scientists" attempts to create life in the laboratory have failed, because they are trying to create cells that do not obey The Commandments of God at the molecular level.



TRUE MORALITY DOES NOT NEED SALVATION.

Those who have proclaimed that they are SAVED have, to date, possessed neither RIGHTEOUSNESS nor MORALITY.

.    MATTHEW 22:1-14.

AND Jesus answered
and Spake unto them again
by Parables,
and Said,

2. "The Kingdom of Heaven
is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage
for his son,
3. "And sent forth his servants
to call them that were bidden
to the wedding:
and they would not come.
4. "Again, he sent forth
other servants,
saying,

'TELL THEM
WHICH ARE BIDDEN,

"BEHOLD,
I HAVE PREPARED MY DINNER:
MY OXEN AND MY FATLINGS
ARE KILLED,
AND ALL THINGS ARE READY:
COME UNTO THE MARRIAGE." '

5. "But they made light of it,
and went their ways,
one to his farm,
another to his merchandise:
6. "And the remnant
took his servants,
and entreated them spitefully,
and slew them.
7. "But when the king heard thereof,
he was wroth:
and he sent forth his armies,
and destroyed those murderers,
and burned up their city.
8. Then saith he to his servants,

'THE WEDDING IS READY,
BUT THEY WHICH WERE BIDDEN
WERE NOT WORTHY.
9. 'GO YE THEREFORE
INTO THE HIGHWAYS,
AND AS MANY
AS YE SHALL FIND,
BID TO THE MARRIAGE.'

10. "So those servants
went out
into the highways,
and gathered together all
as many as they found,
both bad and good:
and the wedding
was furnished with guests.
11. "And when the king
came in
to see the guests,
he saw there a man
which had not on
a wedding garment:
12. "And he saith unto him,

'FRIEND,
HOW CAMEST THOU
IN HITHER NOT HAVING
A WEDDING GARMENT?'

And he was speechless.
13. "Then said the king
to the servants,

'BIND HIM
HAND AND FOOT,
AND CAST HIM
INTO OUTER DARKNESS,
THERE SHALL BE WEEPING
AND GNASHING OF TEETH.
14. 'FOR MANY ARE CALLED
BUT FEW (ARE) CHOSEN.'

A Moral Person can go to Heaven as soon as they have accumulated enough Spiritual Power to do so. BUT THEY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE CITY OF GOD.

A TRULY MORAL person would be drawn to THE GOSPEL OF YESHUA, and IMMEDIATELY understand the VALUE of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and be willing to acquire It- OUT OF GRATITUDE TOWARD THE CREATOR.

NAGUAL MATUS said that he was aware of the Spiritual Beings inviting Man into Heaven, and admitted that THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT: however, he said, that he could not accept that THEIR Way is THE ONLY WAY- despite that his Spiritual Senses verified that LIFE COMES FROM THEIR REALM, AND NOWHERE ELSE.

[See: THE FIRE FROM WITHIN, by Carlos Castaneda.]

You need to understand where this argument is coming from!

These are the Descendants of people who have exterminated PEOPLE, ANIMALS, INSECTS, and PLANTS that have existed for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

For CENTURIES, they have been trying to ESCAPE from the conception that there WILL be a RECKONING for what their Race has done.

That is why they HAVE TO get rid of BELIEF IN GOD.

If they can pretend that BIBLE RELIGION is all about "MORALS," the Next Step is to prove that WE DON'T NEED GOD FOR MORALS- because THE WAY OF GOD is IMMORAL.

For instance, they will point to places in The Bible where God Commanded things THEY have done, that were IMMORAL, in order to say that GOD was immoral- whereas the situations are NEVER the same.



DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING, UNLESS THEY SHOW YOU THE AUTHORITATIVE BASIS FOR THEIR CLAIM!

In the case of CHRISTIANITY, that means SCRIPTURE.

COMMONSENSE should tell you that most Christians are LIARS.

After deceiving the public for 50 years, BILLY GRAHAM said that he no longer believed that JESUS was the ONLY Way to Heaven!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MZWug3QAvs (9:51 mins.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cTr34ZnGG0 (4:19 mins.)

What angers me is that for DECADES this (*Bleep!*)ard had the GUTS to preach that PENTECOSTALISM is NOT of God, and that SPEAKING IN TONGUES is "OF THE DEVIL:" until his daughter 'Spoke in Tongues;" then he said that Speaking in Tongues is of God- and it's for SOME PEOPLE!"

He preached that it is THE WILL OF GOD for some RIGHTEOUS people to be sick- that they had NO RIGHT to PRAY TO GOD, and EXPECT Him to Heal them! Thousands into Millions of Christians DIED because of THAT Teaching of his!

Then he turns around and says that he believed that people who do not even believe on Lord Yeshua are going to Heaven! Whereas, he previously said that Christians who believed on Lord Yeshua MORE than HIM were going to HELL!



GOING TO HEAVEN IS NOT THE ISSUE, BUT BEING HONOURABLY RECEIVED!

Who told you that any such thing as "GRACE" exists? Lord Yeshua never mentioned such a thing!

Great Spiritual Power is needed to go to Heaven. To do so without Divine Protection is FOOLHARDY.

God has OUTCASTS in Heaven, who are not outcast from Heaven: these are a menace to beings who are strong enough to enter Heaven, but not strong enough to withstand THEM.

This is why it is important to be "CONFESSED BEFORE THE ANGELS OF GOD."

Does this explanation not make sense to you better, now?

. NUMBERS 15:27-31.

27. "And if any Soul Sin
through ignorance,
then he shall bring a she goat
of the first year
for a Sin Offering.
28. And the Priest shall
make an Atonement
for the Soul that
Sinneth Ignorantly,
when he Sinneth by Ignorance
before The LORD,
to make an Atonement for him;
and it shall be forgiven him.
29. "Ye shall have One Law
for him that Sinneth
through Ignorance,
both for him that is born
among the Children of Israel,
and for the Stranger
that sojourneth
among them.
30. "But the Soul
that doeth ought presumptuously,
whether he be
born in the land,
or a Stranger,
the same Reproacheth
The LORD;
and that Soul shall be cut off
from among his people.
31. "Because he hath despised
The Word of The LORD,
and hath broken His Commandment,
that Soul shall
utterly be cut off;
his Iniquity shall be
upon him."

ATONEMENT DOES NOT COVER PEOPLE WHO SIN DELIBERATELY.

People who boast that they are Saved because someone told them to Believe Something and Confess something are usually just deceiving themselves.

People who die without TOTAL RECALL Ability are usually DESTROYED in moments.

Summarize what you believe

annyplenty:
I mean a pure moralists who refrains from all the SINS normally preached against by most religions but whose instincts are based purely on morals and not due to religious beliefs.

IF THEY BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS.

orunto27:
IF THEY BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS.

Not true!
When it comes to Christ's heavens, there are entry requirements that every person who wants to enter has to meet. A moralist would probably have a hard time since his life is guided by cultures and rules of men that Jesus warned profusely against. In addition, a moralist would have an equally hard time becoming like a child for one cannot be set in one's earthly ways to obtain admission into Christ's kingdom of Heaven.

macIB:
Yes of course, why not?
the fanatic, either xtians or muslims, will tell you no.
but dont believe them because nobody has die and come to tell us
the criteria for the Judgment day!!

That's never been a secret though.... It belongs to the righteous, those who are poor in spirit.

Matthew 5 vs 3 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5 vs 10 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.'

What do the righteous do?
Are the righteous those who attend religious services aka Churchians to listen to so-called pastors? No,
Are the righteous those who dress in modest and holy apparel? No
Are the righteous those who vote democrat, or republican? NO
Are the righteous those who fast and think of themselves as being spiritual? NO
Are the righteous those who abhor all knowledge and wisdom, yet cling to the Bible, a book, as if it was God? NO
Are the righteous those who have obtained for themselves training from some Bible college and have a title and certificate to show for it? No
Are the righteous those who have followers who worship and respect them? NO
So who is righteous? Jesus tells us who those are.

Matthew 25 vs 31-40
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31. “The Son of Man will come again with divine greatness, and all his angels will come with him. He will sit as king on his great and glorious throne.
32. All the people of the world will be gathered before him. Then he will separate everyone into two groups. It will be like a shepherd separating his sheep from his goats.
33. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34. “Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made.
35. It is yours because when I was hungry, you gave me food to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I had no place to stay, you welcomed me into your home.
36. When I was without clothes, you gave me something to wear. When I was sick, you cared for me. When I was in prison, you came to visit me.’
37. “Then the godly people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you food? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink?
38. When did we see you with no place to stay and welcome you into our home? When did we see you without clothes and give you something to wear?
39. When did we see you sick or in prison and care for you?’
40. “Then the king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you did for any of my people here, you also did for me.’

These are the ones who understand and do what the Church of Christ is meant for. The rock on which the church of God is built is righteousness, the very same commands that Jesus handed over to Peter in John 21...

John 21 vs 15-17 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?”
He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.”
He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
16. He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.”
He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
17. He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?”
and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

Feed my Sheep/Lamb --- Give food to the hungry, give something to drink to the thirsty
Take Care of my Sheep -- Cloth the naked, Shelter the homeless, Care for the sick and visit those in prison.

Oooops:
I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh to the father except by me

And if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God raised him up from the dead, thou shall be saved

1 John 2 vs 3-6
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. If we obey what God has told us to do, then we are sure that we know him.
4. If we say we know God but do not obey his commands, we are lying. The truth is not in us.
5. But when we obey God’s teaching, his love is truly working in us. This is how we know that we are living in him.
6. If we say we live in God, we must live the way Jesus lived.

Obedience is key!

annyplenty:
I mean a pure moralists who refrains from all the SINS normally preached against by most religions but whose instincts are based purely on morals and not due to religious beliefs.

The question is who shall measure your Morals?

For Surely it is A Nullity for you to set your own exam, write it and then grade it for yourself! Surely your result shall not be recognised.

An exam is set by someone else other than you and after you write it, it shall be graded by someone other than you, mostly the same person who set the exam in the first place.

No human set Morality, therefore no human can grade or determine or mark the answers on Morality!

mumumugu:
is asked this question long ago.can one who is goodly but not godly make heaven?
Christian said no?
but one who believe in god but does not do good can make heaven because of grace and Jesus sacrifice.
made no sence to me

First of all, man's goodness, done in our sins, is filthy rags in the sight of God.

Isaiah 64 vs 6 (AMP)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. For we all have become like one who is [ceremonially] unclean [like a leper],
And all our deeds of righteousness are like filthy rags;
We all wither and decay like a leaf,
And our wickedness [our sin, our injustice, our wrongdoing], like the wind, takes us away [carrying us far from God’s favor, toward destruction].

Another translation

Isaiah 64 vs 6 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. We are all dirty with sin.
Even our good works are not pure.
They are like bloodstained rags.
We are all like dead leaves.
Our sins have carried us away like wind.

The work God wants is the work done in the obedience of His will and His commandments. John, the apostle put it this way...

1 John 2 vs 3-6
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. If we obey what God has told us to do, then we are sure that we know him.
4. If we say we know God but do not obey his commands, we are lying. The truth is not in us.
5. But when we obey God’s teaching, his love is truly working in us. This is how we know that we are living in him.
6. If we say we live in God, we must live the way Jesus lived.

Jesus Christ is the Only way.

Without the help of the Holy Spirit, no one, no moralist, can overcome sin.

The righteousness of man is like filthy rag.

annyplenty:
I mean a pure moralists who refrains from all the SINS normally preached against by most religions but whose instincts are based purely on morals and not due to religious beliefs.

No. Being moral doesn't. U receive Salvation when u accept Jesus Christ as ur personal Lord and Saviour.

Every one of us, including the moralists, came to this world with the nature of sin. Even if one stops sinning today by his own strength (which is impossible), the past depravity must be forgiven and cleansed for such a one to make heaven. This can only be effected through the blood of Christ. If it were possible for a person to save himself/herself, then Christ wouldn't have come and died such an ignoble death for sinful humanity.

FreedomfromtheT:
Every one of us, including the moralists, came to this world with the nature of sin. Even if one stops sinning today by his own strength (which is impossible), the past depravity must be forgiven and cleansed for such a one to make heaven. This can only be effected through the blood of Christ. If it were possible for a person to save himself/herself, then Christ wouldn't have come and died such an ignoble death for sinful humanity.

There is no such thing as a nature of sin. Abel, Noah, Enoch, Abraham and so many others are evidence against that doctrine of deceit that man has some sort of nature of sin.

Kobojunkie:
There is no such thing as a nature of sin. Abel, Noah, Enoch, Abraham and so many others are evidence against that doctrine of deceit that man has some sort of nature of sin.

You are wrong sir. Those you mentioned were born with the nature of sin. They did not start pleassing God from their mothers' wombs. They came in contact with God or were saved on a particular day. Abraham, for instance became a friend of God at the age of 75 when he answered the Divine call (Genesis 12:1-4). "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

mumumugu:

..but one who believe in god but does not do good can make heaven because of grace and Jesus sacrifice.

made no sence to me

They should have told you "No". Believe in God without Obeying Him, is not "A believe in God".

macIB:
Yes of course, why not?

the fanatic, either xtians or muslims, will tell you no.

but dont believe them because nobody has die and come to tell us

the criteria for the Judgment day!!

You forget that before they learnt and did doing the good, they first commit crimes.

So they are still going to be found guilty for their past offences because that just is has not been paid for.

FreedomfromtheT:
You are wrong sir. Those you mentioned were born with the nature of sin. They did not start pleassing God from their mothers' wombs. They came in contact with God or were saved on a particular day. Abraham, for instance became a friend of God at the age of 75 when he answered the Divine call (Genesis 12:1-4). "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

You don't even understand the doctrine of a sin nature yet you boldly affirm it to be of truth.

Interesting claims by you that none of Abel, Noah, Abraham, etc. Here are my questions regarding what you said

1. Care to show us by way of scripture where God Himself proclaimed that no one was born pleasing Him from the womb?

2. Was Adam ever God's friend? At what age did Abel, and Noah, Enoch, Moses, etc. become God's friends? I ask this fo ascertain why you would use friendship with God as measure in this case.

According to Paul, all have sinned... but is not to say all have a sin nature since those who have a nature of sin .I.e. demons and devils, know only sin. For man sin is simply a choice between obeying God or disobeying God where disobedience is what sin is!